No, but some people just can't resist the opportunity to jump up on their high horses and start beating their chests with righteous indignation.
Like I said above, based on my posting history, you'd have to be a certified idiot to accuse me of being a racist. But that still doesn't stop certain people here from salivating at the chance to indulge in some false slander.
I think this thread, like many others on the train, has derailed. I will say again, in an effort to get back on track, that I don't believe this teacher should be fired. She was challenging her students to think outside of the box and think critically. These students are in an honors English class. Which is a college prep class. So the fact tha they are sophomores is not relevant.
Regarding the lesson, I agree that it seems like this teacher was just trying to think out of the box and do something creative. The problem, as I see it, is that there is a difference between teaching about propaganda on the one hand, and asking students to assume a racist point of view on the other. I can see how being asked to adopt the perspective of a racist could be extremely distressing; I'm pretty sure that if I was asked to write an essay in high school about why black people are inferior and why slavery is therefore ok, I would have found the assignment really upsetting in a way that crosses a line. Some people have mentioned assignments they had as kids where the class would debate from both sides of an issue. I think there it's a different situation, from the student's perspective, because the non-racist side is also being presented, with which you can identify as the exercise is taking place, and because a debate is much more of an exterior exercise; you're acting when you have that debate, whereas an individual writing assignment is entirely an interior, personal exercise. The actual act of having to sit and think about and write an essay explaining why Jews are evil is, I think, much more upsetting than having to argue the point in the context of a mock debate.
Regarding anti-semitism: I'm not calling anyone an anti-semite. I will say that I raised an eyebrow at the "whenever a jewish person gets offended" comment. The implication of that statement seems to be that we should not take seriously, to some degree at least, what Jews find offensive when we seek to identify anti-semitism. I find that notion upsetting. Who else but Jews should define anti-Jewish racism? Would anyone think to tell African Americans what is and isn't racist? Clearly accusations of racism can be abused, but the cavalier way that "whenever a jewish person gets offended" brushes aside the concerns of Jews regarding racism targeting them is troubling.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
I think some people are under estimating year 10 students. personally I would have a hell of a time completing this assignment now, let alone when I was 15. I just couldn't brew up the level of hatred needed to think, let alone argue in the affirmative, that jews are evil. but damn id certainly relish working with and helping my son(who is in year 10) on such an assignment. but in answer to the question on why jews are evil... theyre not though those in charge who would benefit from such a view choose to push that agenda and somehow manage to back it up with bullshit and blatant ignorance and bigotry. as to why people fall for it.. I have no bloody idea. I also have an issue with the term evil.... as I see it as a concept deeply grounded in religion and you all know what an issue I have with religion.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I don't see this in any different light than my daughter having to write a 5000 word paper on reasons why NOT to bother with conservation of certain endangered species when her studies are aimed at Wildlife conservation and ecology. There as well she had to argue a case which is the opposite of her beliefs. I guess it does challenge the young person and develops their critical thinking skills.
I suppose the difference between the above and the OP is that it is about jews and nazi Germany. And that is a 'sensitive' issue - one people can't really, truly talk about and sort of 'walk on eggshells' every time these things are mentioned.. Nothing more.
What's with the sarcasm quotes? Should Jews not be "sensitive" about genocidal anti-semitism? Speaking as a Jew who has been very involved with the organized Jewish community I'll tell you, we have no problem with people discussing the holocaust. In fact we think discussion of the holocaust is a very valuable thing to do, just as discussion of slavery, and jim crow, and colonialism, etc. are all valuable topics for discussion. But yeah, it's a sensitive subject, for I think very obvious reasons. What is entirely insensitive is your derisive dismissal of the emotions and sensitivities of others, cause you know, the Jews should just get over it already and shut up about all this anti-semitism and holocaust crap.
you couldn't swing if you were hangin' from a palm tree in a hurricane
Regarding the lesson, I agree that it seems like this teacher was just trying to think out of the box and do something creative. The problem, as I see it, is that there is a difference between teaching about propaganda on the one hand, and asking students to assume a racist point of view on the other. I can see how being asked to adopt the perspective of a racist could be extremely distressing; I'm pretty sure that if I was asked to write an essay in high school about why black people are inferior and why slavery is therefore ok, I would have found the assignment really upsetting in a way that crosses a line. Some people have mentioned assignments they had as kids where the class would debate from both sides of an issue. I think there it's a different situation, from the student's perspective, because the non-racist side is also being presented, with which you can identify as the exercise is taking place, and because a debate is much more of an exterior exercise; you're acting when you have that debate, whereas an individual writing assignment is entirely an interior, personal exercise. The actual act of having to sit and think about and write an essay explaining why Jews are evil is, I think, much more upsetting than having to argue the point in the context of a mock debate.
Not only excellent points (hadn't really considered the external/internal factors), but very well-said too.
redrock, I see the parallel in your post and think both (among many other) issues SHOULD be examined and discussed. Perhaps it's more difficult when it hits close to home, whether related to the Holocaust, slavery, prejudice or similar horrific topics.
I'm thankful there are some who can, do and have spoken openly about these subjects. It's even more meaningful /powerful when it comes from those who've had first-hand experience (grateful I got to learn directly from a few, at least from the Holocaust perspective; very few still alive today).
I'm thankful there are some who can, do and have spoken openly about these subjects. It's even more meaningful /powerful when it comes from those who've had first-hand experience.
I agree. It would indeed be valuable to speak to those who've survived genocide, like some Jewish survivors of the death camps, or Tutsi's who survived the genocide in Rwanda, or some Guatemalan Indians who survived the genocide of the 1980's, for example.
I'm thankful there are some who can, do and have spoken openly about these subjects. It's even more meaningful /powerful when it comes from those who've had first-hand experience.
I agree. It would indeed be valuable to speak to those who've survived genocide, like some Jewish survivors of the death camps, or Tutsi's who survived the genocide in Rwanda, or some Guatemalan Indians who survived the genocide of the 1980's, for example.
Byrnzie...
Have you got to "We Wish To Inform You..." yet? Have you read Romeo Dallaire's "Shake Hands With The Devil"?
The tragedy in Rwanda (and western Society's corresponding failure due to indifference) has been a brutal episode that just does not seem to ge the respect it should. 800,000 to a million killed in one month. One April. Weapon of choice: machete.
The whole time the UN twiddled their thumbs and argued about things like 'what color troop transport vehicles should be' prior to sending relief- which they never did to any degree that could decease the machete attacks.
Bill Clinton never even let Air Force 1 shut the motors off as he spoke to the people in the aftermath paying the bandaged and battered some token words which were supposed to serve as some sort of an apology.
I'm thankful there are some who can, do and have spoken openly about these subjects. It's even more meaningful /powerful when it comes from those who've had first-hand experience.
I agree. It would indeed be valuable to speak to those who've survived genocide, like some Jewish survivors of the death camps, or Tutsi's who survived the genocide in Rwanda, or some Guatemalan Indians who survived the genocide of the 1980's, for example.
Can't tell if this is sincere or with some kind of rolling-eyes deal.
So I'll assume the former and like you, won't disagree. I specifically addressed the Jewish side as relates to the initial post and the one I responded to, mostly due to my background; certainly doesn't minimize the other horrors you mentioned and I never intended it to be (mis?)taken that way.
Have you got to "We Wish To Inform You..." yet? Have you read Romeo Dallaire's "Shake Hands With The Devil"?
I have a copy of this back in England. I need to get my Mother to send it out to me.
I remember you saying this. Dallaire's account is very good as well. Very frustrating though.
That's weird: Just went to e-mail my Mum to ask her to send me out this book, and I notice an e-mail from her fella telling me that he's just sent it. Last time I asked for it was a couple of months ago.
On the subject of synchronicity, I heard the word 'vignette' yesterday twice from two different places. Weirdness all around. :crazy:
That's weird: Just went to e-mail my Mum to ask her to send me out this book, and I notice an e-mail from her fella telling me that he's just sent it. Last time I asked for it was a couple of months ago.
On the subject of synchronicity, I heard the word 'vignette' yesterday twice from two different places. Weirdness all around. :crazy:
the universe.... she moves in mysterious ways.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
What a fun lesson. It proves my honest thought that .... All religions get sheets.
It's almost too easy or very difficult. Dr. Zahi Hawass , from Egypt. Proved that Jewish people were not slaves but dedicated workers. was it 2009 or 2010. Pretty neat. Jewish people built pyramids for money.
What a fun lesson. It proves my honest thought that .... All religions get sheets.
It's almost too easy or very difficult. Dr. Zahi Hawass , from Egypt. Proved that Jewish people were not slaves but dedicated workers. was it 2009 or 2010. Pretty neat. Jewish people built pyramids for money.
What a fun lesson. It proves my honest thought that .... All religions get sheets.
It's almost too easy or very difficult. Dr. Zahi Hawass , from Egypt. Proved that Jewish people were not slaves but dedicated workers. was it 2009 or 2010. Pretty neat. Jewish people built pyramids for money.
I need to watch Borat again....
Show me the Mummy.
What?
can I recommend a big fat joint to help you understand?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Do you ever notice how when STAYSEA posts the boys in her signature box look like they're about to chime in?
Ed? Jeff? You had something to say?
Sorry to distract- I don't mean to derail- I just love that photo.
I always think that. I'll probably edit this later.
I'm honest. The books the Kids had to read. I think it would be too easy or too difficult to write that paper.
I don't think it was intended on hating. I think she meant for her assignment to be motivation and inspire creative thoughts.
On a positive note it does say "Ed was on the drums".
Comments
No, but some people just can't resist the opportunity to jump up on their high horses and start beating their chests with righteous indignation.
Like I said above, based on my posting history, you'd have to be a certified idiot to accuse me of being a racist. But that still doesn't stop certain people here from salivating at the chance to indulge in some false slander.
Regarding anti-semitism: I'm not calling anyone an anti-semite. I will say that I raised an eyebrow at the "whenever a jewish person gets offended" comment. The implication of that statement seems to be that we should not take seriously, to some degree at least, what Jews find offensive when we seek to identify anti-semitism. I find that notion upsetting. Who else but Jews should define anti-Jewish racism? Would anyone think to tell African Americans what is and isn't racist? Clearly accusations of racism can be abused, but the cavalier way that "whenever a jewish person gets offended" brushes aside the concerns of Jews regarding racism targeting them is troubling.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I suppose the difference between the above and the OP is that it is about jews and nazi Germany. And that is a 'sensitive' issue - one people can't really, truly talk about and sort of 'walk on eggshells' every time these things are mentioned.. Nothing more.
redrock, I see the parallel in your post and think both (among many other) issues SHOULD be examined and discussed. Perhaps it's more difficult when it hits close to home, whether related to the Holocaust, slavery, prejudice or similar horrific topics.
I'm thankful there are some who can, do and have spoken openly about these subjects. It's even more meaningful /powerful when it comes from those who've had first-hand experience (grateful I got to learn directly from a few, at least from the Holocaust perspective; very few still alive today).
I agree. It would indeed be valuable to speak to those who've survived genocide, like some Jewish survivors of the death camps, or Tutsi's who survived the genocide in Rwanda, or some Guatemalan Indians who survived the genocide of the 1980's, for example.
Byrnzie...
Have you got to "We Wish To Inform You..." yet? Have you read Romeo Dallaire's "Shake Hands With The Devil"?
The tragedy in Rwanda (and western Society's corresponding failure due to indifference) has been a brutal episode that just does not seem to ge the respect it should. 800,000 to a million killed in one month. One April. Weapon of choice: machete.
The whole time the UN twiddled their thumbs and argued about things like 'what color troop transport vehicles should be' prior to sending relief- which they never did to any degree that could decease the machete attacks.
Bill Clinton never even let Air Force 1 shut the motors off as he spoke to the people in the aftermath paying the bandaged and battered some token words which were supposed to serve as some sort of an apology.
So I'll assume the former and like you, won't disagree. I specifically addressed the Jewish side as relates to the initial post and the one I responded to, mostly due to my background; certainly doesn't minimize the other horrors you mentioned and I never intended it to be (mis?)taken that way.
I have a copy of this back in England. I need to get my Mother to send it out to me.
I remember you saying this. Dallaire's account is very good as well. Very frustrating though.
That's weird: Just went to e-mail my Mum to ask her to send me out this book, and I notice an e-mail from her fella telling me that he's just sent it. Last time I asked for it was a couple of months ago.
On the subject of synchronicity, I heard the word 'vignette' yesterday twice from two different places. Weirdness all around. :crazy:
the universe.... she moves in mysterious ways.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
The religion has never been persecuted before.
They don't know hate.
What a fun lesson. It proves my honest thought that .... All religions get sheets.
It's almost too easy or very difficult. Dr. Zahi Hawass , from Egypt. Proved that Jewish people were not slaves but dedicated workers. was it 2009 or 2010. Pretty neat. Jewish people built pyramids for money.
I need to watch Borat again....
Show me the Mummy.
What?
can I recommend a big fat joint to help you understand?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I knew you weren't just a pretty face. :P
Ed? Jeff? You had something to say?
Sorry to distract- I don't mean to derail- I just love that photo.
I always think that.
I'm honest. The books the Kids had to read. I think it would be too easy or too difficult to write that paper.
I don't think it was intended on hating. I think she meant for her assignment to be motivation and inspire creative thoughts.
On a positive note it does say "Ed was on the drums".