Critical thinking in general, or just anything to do with Jewish history that seeks to explain why the majority of Germans acted as they did, and that doesn't just lazily cast them all as evil?
you know, you always say you are in no way anti-Semitic, but man, this statement comes incredibly close. please explain your last statement.
it's not about Jewish people. It's about general acceptance in a public school of all peoples, and you know it.
Jean has already said it, but I was going to say the same thing: this might be a good assignment for college-age political science class, but not 10th grade english.
He is clearly anti-semitic and should probably be banned from here because of his hateful comments
Just teaching history from a textbook and fact cards is not the most effective way to teach kids how to learn from the past. I think it is important to investigate how and why such attitudes developed and although I'm not necessarily in agreement with the assignment (not having seen the scope and sequence of the entire unit and the lesson's place within it)... at least the teacher sought an original method for students to probe the prevalent attitudes of the time that allowed the Holocaust to occur. I'm pretty sure there was another part to the lesson. The kids and community seemed to have a high regard for the teacher who was said to have consistently challenged students to think critically and never had any prior history that reflected a racist attitude.
I don't think this teacher was deliberately trying to minimize the Holocaust or defend Nazi attitudes. The teacher took a risk and is now getting slammed for it. If society continues to hang teachers on mistakes... eventually the classroom is going to become a pretty dull place as teachers tread very carefully instead of trying to ignite passion, emotion, or enthusiasm in their lessons through thought provoking exercises.
Such an exercise reminds me of the brown-eyes/blue-eyes lesson that elementary kids remembered for their entire lives and was celebrated for its effectiveness in teaching tolerance:
What an unreal lesson. If you do not know of it... please read the link (it's not long)!
As mentioned a few times in this thread... there was much trust and faith in teachers in 1968. How far would this teacher get today with this historic lesson given society's propensity to jump all over teachers the moment things are a little out of the ordinary or the moment it seems as if someone's feelings might be getting hurt?
Such an exercise reminds me of the brown-eyes/blue-eyes lesson that elementary kids remembered for their entire lives and was celebrated for its effectiveness in teaching tolerance:
What an unreal lesson. If you do not know of it... please read the link (it's not long)!
As mentioned a few times in this thread... there was much trust and faith in teachers in 1968. How far would this teacher get today with this historic lesson given society's propensity to jump all over teachers the moment things are a little out of the ordinary or the moment it seems as if someone's feelings might be getting hurt?
I can't believe I forgot about this until re-reading it. A valuable lesson, for sure.
Years ago, the Museum of Tolerance out here had two entry doors (not sure if they still have them but I hope so). One marked "prejudiced", the other "not prejudiced".
No entry to the latter; it was locked.
It's within us all to hate, but by the same token, we also have the capacity to set it aside and douse the flames - to be humbled and to learn and open our minds some.
I think this has been a very interesting discussion that has happened and I don't necessarily have anything to add but this came across my facebook this morning and thought it was appropriate to some of the comments that were made about teaching and trying to pound learning into the heads of kids despite being thwarted at every turn. This is a local weekly here in Louisville that actually makes light of some of the very disturbing trends and horrible people that run this state. If I didn't laugh about the state of education, I would cry - so laugh instead
i'm almost positive the teacher who taught the "brown eye/blue eye" lesson got fired. go figure. awesome lesson; i show the documentary to my students every year when I teach the mlk assassination.
Critical thinking in general, or just anything to do with Jewish history that seeks to explain why the majority of Germans acted as they did, and that doesn't just lazily cast them all as evil?
you know, you always say you are in no way anti-Semitic, but man, this statement comes incredibly close. please explain your last statement.
it's not about Jewish people. It's about general acceptance in a public school of all peoples, and you know it.
Jean has already said it, but I was going to say the same thing: this might be a good assignment for college-age political science class, but not 10th grade english.
He is clearly anti-semitic and should probably be banned from here because of his hateful comments
I don't support anyone being banned for saying what they want to say. Unless he's actually promoting hate or crime (or personally disrespecting individual forum members), no banning if we like freedom of speech please.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I like the assignment a lot and I think it is only a tool to help students better understand the atrocities of Nazi Germany.
With that being said, I can see how it is controversial and how these kids might not be ready for it in high school... this might be something best saved for college.
As a proud American Jew who lost half his family in the holocaust I was not offended by the assignment that the teacher gave her students. When I read about it I just shook my head in disbelief.
What offended me is your extremely high level of ignorance and anti-semitism. :fp:
Interesting that you get free reign to throw out such insults. It would be another thing altogether if you could actually back up your bullshit with reference to anything I've said.
No shit. I don't know why Byrnzie thinks it's Jewish people who were upset. It is almost certain that it was non-Jewish parents with this disturbingly wide-spread problem of PCism and need to coddle and ignorantly shelter their kids who complained.
Maybe because what I said was the following:
Maybe the teacher simply thought the assignment would be educational and challenging, and underestimated the level of knee-jerk hysteria in America whenever a Jewish person decides to be offended.
Maybe you have trouble understanding the English language?
Critical thinking in general, or just anything to do with Jewish history that seeks to explain why the majority of Germans acted as they did, and that doesn't just lazily cast them all as evil?
you know, you always say you are in no way anti-Semitic, but man, this statement comes incredibly close. please explain your last statement.
it's not about Jewish people. It's about general acceptance in a public school of all peoples, and you know it.
Jean has already said it, but I was going to say the same thing: this might be a good assignment for college-age political science class, but not 10th grade english.
Anti-Semitic? To deny that all Germans in 1930's Germany were evil is anti-Semitic? Really? Is that what you're gonna argue in your attempt to label me a racist?
No shit. I don't know why Byrnzie thinks it's Jewish people who were upset. It is almost certain that it was non-Jewish parents with this disturbingly wide-spread problem of PCism and need to coddle and ignorantly shelter their kids who complained.
Maybe because what I said was the following:
Maybe the teacher simply thought the assignment would be educational and challenging, and underestimated the level of knee-jerk hysteria in America whenever a Jewish person decides to be offended.
Maybe you have trouble understanding the English language?
I guess you need to learn how to be more clear when you write? Because the "whenever a Jewish person decided to be offended" part leads me to believe that you are saying that Jewish people are offended.... Soooo.....
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Critical thinking in general, or just anything to do with Jewish history that seeks to explain why the majority of Germans acted as they did, and that doesn't just lazily cast them all as evil?
you know, you always say you are in no way anti-Semitic, but man, this statement comes incredibly close. please explain your last statement.
it's not about Jewish people. It's about general acceptance in a public school of all peoples, and you know it.
Jean has already said it, but I was going to say the same thing: this might be a good assignment for college-age political science class, but not 10th grade english.
Anti-Semitic? To deny that all Germans in 1930's Germany were evil is anti-Semitic? Really? Is that what you're gonna argue in your attempt to label me a racist?
I said it came dangerously close, and asked you to clarify your statement (which you didn't do yet). No one thinks all germans of that era were evil. But to say something like "every time a Jewish person decides to be offended" is a bit harsh, man.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I said it came dangerously close, and asked you to clarify your statement (which you didn't do yet). No one thinks all germans of that era were evil. But to say something like "every time a Jewish person decides to be offended" is a bit harsh, man.
Except that wasn't what you quoted in your original comment. Your anti-Semitic comment was in relation to my comment regarding all Germans being evil.
No shit. I don't know why Byrnzie thinks it's Jewish people who were upset. It is almost certain that it was non-Jewish parents with this disturbingly wide-spread problem of PCism and need to coddle and ignorantly shelter their kids who complained.
Maybe because what I said was the following:
Maybe the teacher simply thought the assignment would be educational and challenging, and underestimated the level of knee-jerk hysteria in America whenever a Jewish person decides to be offended.
Maybe you have trouble understanding the English language?
I guess you need to learn how to be more clear when you write? Because the "whenever a Jewish person decided to be offended" part leads me to believe that you are saying that Jewish people are offended.... Soooo.....
So you don't understand the difference between 'person' and 'people'? Or are you just pretending to not understand the difference?
Maybe the teacher simply thought the assignment would be educational and challenging, and underestimated the level of knee-jerk hysteria in America whenever a Jewish person decides to be offended.
Maybe you have trouble understanding the English language?
I guess you need to learn how to be more clear when you write? Because the "whenever a Jewish person decided to be offended" part leads me to believe that you are saying that Jewish people are offended.... Soooo.....
So you don't understand the difference between 'person' and 'people'? Or are you just pretending to not understand the difference?
What?? It doesn't make a difference here. You made the assumption that a Jew was offended (and Jews, since you said "whenever"). That is the point...
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I said it came dangerously close, and asked you to clarify your statement (which you didn't do yet). No one thinks all germans of that era were evil. But to say something like "every time a Jewish person decides to be offended" is a bit harsh, man.
Except that wasn't what you quoted in your original comment. Your anti-Semitic comment was in relation to my comment regarding all Germans being evil.
whoops. looks like byrnzie wins on a technicality! good for you!
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
He is clearly anti-semitic and should probably be banned from here because of his hateful comments
No, you should be fucking banned for your hateful comments.
In the meantime, go ahead and explain how I'm ant-Semitic.
Go on, I'm waiting.
Okay Byrnzie here you go,
A. I have said nothing that can be construed as being hateful. Except maybe by someone on the defensive.
B. You have a record of posting on or creating anti-Isreal threads. Isreal is the "Jewish State". If you continuously post anti-Isreal comments and threads it makes you anti-semitic in the eyes of many many people. Not just Jewish people.
And as for the Anti-Defamation league, they're a sham
"
5. "
underestimated the level of knee-jerk hysteria in America whenever a Jewish person decides to be offended."
6. "
People are just jumping all over this because it involves Jews
"
If you are indeed not anti-semitic I stand corrected. But your recent statements and your history of anti-Isreal posts seem to say otherwise. Plus you come across in many of your posts as a very angry person.
I hope you have a great rest of your day and shalom alechem
"Whenever a Jewish person decides to be offended" is not racist. Even in the context which it was presented. I have not read all of his posts, but I have in this thread and i don't see the racist or anti-Semitic tone.
He is clearly anti-semitic and should probably be banned from here because of his hateful comments
No, you should be fucking banned for your hateful comments.
In the meantime, go ahead and explain how I'm ant-Semitic.
Go on, I'm waiting.
Okay Byrnzie here you go,
A. I have said nothing that can be construed as being hateful. Except maybe by someone on the defensive.
B. You have a record of posting on or creating anti-Isreal threads. Isreal is the "Jewish State". If you continuously post anti-Isreal comments and threads it makes you anti-semitic in the eyes of many many people. Not just Jewish people.
And as for the Anti-Defamation league, they're a sham
"
5. "
underestimated the level of knee-jerk hysteria in America whenever a Jewish person decides to be offended."
6. "
People are just jumping all over this because it involves Jews
"
If you are indeed not anti-semitic I stand corrected. But your recent statements and your history of anti-Isreal posts seem to say otherwise. Plus you come across in many of your posts as a very angry person.
I hope you have a great rest of your day and shalom alechem
Not referring to you here, but seriously, judging from my posting history, only a certified idiot would claim that I'm racist, or anti-Semitic.
And criticizing the crimes of the state of Israel does mot make someone anti-Semitic. But then you already know that.
I suggest you read through my comments again.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,079
Whoa! We need a mediator here. Bentlyspop, I really don't see Byrnzie as a racist and Byrnzie, I really don't see Bentlyspop as being hateful. I often find myself paying close attention to what both of you say in your posts on many subjects because you both seem like very intelligent, critical critical thinkers who truly do care about what's going on in the world. Sorry to step in the middle of this- it's just that I appreciate what both of you have to say.
Carry on (peaceably, if possible).
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
He is clearly anti-semitic and should probably be banned from here because of his hateful comments
but
it could have been a kind of devil's advocate kind of thing
"what a long, strange trip it's been"
I don't think this teacher was deliberately trying to minimize the Holocaust or defend Nazi attitudes. The teacher took a risk and is now getting slammed for it. If society continues to hang teachers on mistakes... eventually the classroom is going to become a pretty dull place as teachers tread very carefully instead of trying to ignite passion, emotion, or enthusiasm in their lessons through thought provoking exercises.
http://seattletimes.com/html/opinion/20 ... mlk17.html
What an unreal lesson. If you do not know of it... please read the link (it's not long)!
As mentioned a few times in this thread... there was much trust and faith in teachers in 1968. How far would this teacher get today with this historic lesson given society's propensity to jump all over teachers the moment things are a little out of the ordinary or the moment it seems as if someone's feelings might be getting hurt?
Years ago, the Museum of Tolerance out here had two entry doors (not sure if they still have them but I hope so). One marked "prejudiced", the other "not prejudiced".
No entry to the latter; it was locked.
It's within us all to hate, but by the same token, we also have the capacity to set it aside and douse the flames - to be humbled and to learn and open our minds some.
http://leoweekly.com/summary-my-discontent/education-blame-game
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
With that being said, I can see how it is controversial and how these kids might not be ready for it in high school... this might be something best saved for college.
That's too bad... I spent a semester on the holocaust
No, you should be fucking banned for your hateful comments.
In the meantime, go ahead and explain how I'm ant-Semitic.
Go on, I'm waiting.
Interesting that you get free reign to throw out such insults. It would be another thing altogether if you could actually back up your bullshit with reference to anything I've said.
Maybe because what I said was the following:
Maybe the teacher simply thought the assignment would be educational and challenging, and underestimated the level of knee-jerk hysteria in America whenever a Jewish person decides to be offended.
Maybe you have trouble understanding the English language?
Anti-Semitic? To deny that all Germans in 1930's Germany were evil is anti-Semitic? Really? Is that what you're gonna argue in your attempt to label me a racist?
I said it came dangerously close, and asked you to clarify your statement (which you didn't do yet). No one thinks all germans of that era were evil. But to say something like "every time a Jewish person decides to be offended" is a bit harsh, man.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Except that wasn't what you quoted in your original comment. Your anti-Semitic comment was in relation to my comment regarding all Germans being evil.
So you don't understand the difference between 'person' and 'people'? Or are you just pretending to not understand the difference?
I'm still waiting.
whoops. looks like byrnzie wins on a technicality! good for you!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Okay Byrnzie here you go,
A. I have said nothing that can be construed as being hateful. Except maybe by someone on the defensive.
B. You have a record of posting on or creating anti-Isreal threads. Isreal is the "Jewish State". If you continuously post anti-Isreal comments and threads it makes you anti-semitic in the eyes of many many people. Not just Jewish people.
1. http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=204479&p=4915908#p4915908
2. http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=204787&p=4926411#p4926411
3. Re: Pics where IDF look hot...part 2
by Byrnzie » 21 Mar 2013 00:59
This is the daily reality for people living in the presence of the Settler thugs: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2 ... aeli-video
4. " "
5. " 6. " "
If you are indeed not anti-semitic I stand corrected. But your recent statements and your history of anti-Isreal posts seem to say otherwise. Plus you come across in many of your posts as a very angry person.
I hope you have a great rest of your day and shalom alechem
Not referring to you here, but seriously, judging from my posting history, only a certified idiot would claim that I'm racist, or anti-Semitic.
And criticizing the crimes of the state of Israel does mot make someone anti-Semitic. But then you already know that.
I suggest you read through my comments again.
Carry on (peaceably, if possible).