I'm not rolling my eyes at all. history fascinates me. but made up history does not. just because 2000 year old writings tell us someone did something, does not make it true. christian writers had an agenda, an extremely strong agenda, which makes everything they have written over time extremely suspect in my eyes.
most experts believing that any given human being existed 2000 years ago means nothing in the grand scheme. proving Jesus was a real human does not prove he did anything of any significant merit. all it proves , and "proves" is a strong word here, is that he was born and was killed. nothing more. I refuse to use christian scripture as any type of historical record.
I agree, Hugh. We all know how any story begins to become distorted and exaggerated with time as it moves from one listener to another. Legends grow greater.
The First Nations people speak of many legends that attempt to explain the earth. Many scoff at them, but how are they any different from the more elaborate tales detailed within the bible. Who is to say which is more correct? One group of people believes strongly in one account while another believes just as strongly in a different account.
From what I have gathered... my own opinion has it that Jesus was a philosophical leader who walked the earth and managed to inspire many around him by speaking of and exhibiting all the warm characteristics one should seek to practice in order to be a great human being. His teachings should not be ignored and are very valuable.
Reminds me of Braveheart when William Wallace was reported to be able to consume the English with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse.
I haven't ever heard anyone say that Jesus never existed I don't think. Isn't it common knowledge that he did? What are these people, kind of like holocaust deniers?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I haven't ever heard anyone say that Jesus never existed I don't think. Isn't it common knowledge that he did? What are these people, kind of like holocaust deniers?
I thought the same thing, but when you research it a bit, there's actually no physical evidence of his existence.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I haven't ever heard anyone say that Jesus never existed I don't think. Isn't it common knowledge that he did? What are these people, kind of like holocaust deniers?
Actually... no. A lot of people... myself included... have never believed for one second that he existed. Maybe in a "Johnny Appleseed and Paul Bunyan were based on real people" kind of way. Even with that I'm dubious.
He was just a folk hero and the tall tales and story telling about him turning water into wine and living in the desert for 40 days and walking on water and bringing Lazerous back to life... that's all made up. Same with a "star" that somehow managed to hover in the same place in the sky for a few weeks, a virgin birth, resurrection... it's all made up.
I'm baffled as to how people can be so fucking gullible.
I haven't ever heard anyone say that Jesus never existed I don't think. Isn't it common knowledge that he did? What are these people, kind of like holocaust deniers?
Actually... no. A lot of people... myself included... have never believed for one second that he existed. Maybe in a "Johnny Appleseed and Paul Bunyan were based on real people" kind of way. Even with that I'm dubious.
He was just a folk hero and the tall tales and story telling about him turning water into wine and living in the desert for 40 days and walking on water and bringing Lazerous back to life... that's all made up. Same with a "star" that somehow managed to hover in the same place in the sky for a few weeks, a virgin birth, resurrection... it's all made up.
I'm baffled as to how people can be so fucking gullible.
I wouldn't be shocked to learn that Jesus was a folk hero/tall tale but on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to learn there really was a guy named Jesus and he and his buddies walked around the desert high on peyote or something containing psilocybin.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
I wouldn't be shocked to learn that Jesus was a folk hero/tall tale but on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to learn there really was a guy named Jesus and he and his buddies walked around the desert high on peyote or something containing psilocybin.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I wouldn't be surprised to learn there really was a guy named Jesus and he and his buddies walked around the desert high on peyote or something containing psilocybin.
Have faith people, you'll be better off in the long run
I have never seen any proof of that.
in fact... people's belief in a totalitarian magic entity in the sky that punishes people actually has been the cause of MOST murders, death and war in the history of humans.
historically i have clashed with capricorns... explains a lot.
WOW! So Is EDDIE! (Coincidence) LOL.
ive no doubt ed and i would clash. he has a strong personality and opinions and so do i. the only thing im sure to sync with him on is we both drink... and enjoy it... oh and im sure we both talk our own decent amount of shit.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I haven't ever heard anyone say that Jesus never existed I don't think. Isn't it common knowledge that he did? What are these people, kind of like holocaust deniers?
I thought the same thing, but when you research it a bit, there's actually no physical evidence of his existence.
And once you start looking you'll see that pretty much every single thing attributed to Jesus was performed or achieved by another "deity" before Jesus supposedly existed. I think it's pretty easy to doubt that he ever existed.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
what if jesus was actually a demon* and all his feats of 'magic' were just illusion?
*thats demon NOT the devil.
except all of the miracles of jesus have to do with the demonstration of compassion or faith, or otherwise are meant to establish some sort of parable in action. Or in some cases (as with the wine at the wedding party) are meant sort of thematically (in the context of their performance, and the period it was performed in) to suggest something to the audience. [ie. in the Wine at the Wedding miracle, Jesus was both putting his "new wine" parable in to physical terms; demonstrating its context in a wedding; and also, the very act of transforming the water in to wine is kind of an enacted jab at the Jewish purity ritual which he was by way of action transforming and making obsolete]
I'm not even sure what to make of your original point.
it's just goofy. Which, maybe was the point?
If I was to smile and I held out my hand
If I opened it now would you not understand?
what if jesus was actually a demon* and all his feats of 'magic' were just illusion?
*thats demon NOT the devil.
except all of the miracles of jesus have to do with the demonstration of compassion or faith, or otherwise are meant to establish some sort of parable in action. Or in some cases (as with the wine at the wedding party) are meant sort of thematically (in the context of their performance, and the period it was performed in) to suggest something to the audience. [ie. in the Wine at the Wedding miracle, Jesus was both putting his "new wine" parable in to physical terms; demonstrating its context in a wedding; and also, the very act of transforming the water in to wine is kind of an enacted jab at the Jewish purity ritual which he was by way of action transforming and making obsolete]
I'm not even sure what to make of your original point.
it's just goofy. Which, maybe was the point?
no, my point wasnt to be goofy. im reading this book at the moment titled witchcraft in the middle ages and it talks about religion and heresy and sorcery and how christianity came out on top of all the cults around back in the day and one of the points it discusses is the witch's ability to fly and what might be behind it. it spoke of how no one can fly but the demons had the ability to delude the people.. so they could deceive the people into thinking someone could fly when all it was was just an illusion. then the thought just popped into my head that with all the miracles jesus performed perhaps there was nothing more to them than deception and a touch of demon.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
So i'm curious as to how all the athiest or non believers explain things to their kids. I teach my daughter about God and heaven and spirits and life after death and all that. What do you tell your kids? lights out? thats it! I'd be tramatized as a child if a parent told me that. I can honestly say this......I know for certain that there is such thing as ghosts and spirits. There is something after you die. I used to be a huge skeptic when it came to that kind of stuff but things have happened that has changed my outlook on it completely. I know for a fact that a very powerful spiritual energy source lives inside of us all. And people can laugh all they want, but you will have to face your lack of faith someday.
So i'm curious as to how all the athiest or non believers explain things to their kids. I teach my daughter about God and heaven and spirits and life after death and all that. What do you tell your kids? lights out? thats it! I'd be tramatized as a child if a parent told me that. I can honestly say this......I know for certain that there is such thing as ghosts and spirits. There is something after you die. I used to be a huge skeptic when it came to that kind of stuff but things have happened that has changed my outlook on it completely. I know for a fact that a very powerful spiritual energy source lives inside of us all. And people can laugh all they want, but you will have to face your lack of faith someday.
I'm neither a believer nor a non one and I don't profess to know a whole lot (except that I don't know a whole lot).
We don't have children, but my own upbringing? Honest conversations with my father, with the essence (taught - and shown to me by example) being that HOW you live your life is more important, valuable, than what comes after.
And that it never was - never could be - his place to ridicule anyone for their beliefs, or lack thereof.
I guess, bottom line for me...I hope you have peace in your beliefs, but maybe lay off on chiding those who don't share them.
So i'm curious as to how all the athiest or non believers explain things to their kids. I teach my daughter about God and heaven and spirits and life after death and all that. What do you tell your kids? lights out? thats it! I'd be tramatized as a child if a parent told me that. I can honestly say this......I know for certain that there is such thing as ghosts and spirits. There is something after you die. I used to be a huge skeptic when it came to that kind of stuff but things have happened that has changed my outlook on it completely. I know for a fact that a very powerful spiritual energy source lives inside of us all. And people can laugh all they want, but you will have to face your lack of faith someday.
oh such an easy question... i talk to them with logic and ask them questions so they come to their own conclusions once theyve thought about what it ive asked them. my children arent traumatised by the fact that once theyre dead thier next step is like that of every other organism on the planet. in fact it makes sense... as for ghosts and spirits.. theyre just energy... being an atheist and believing that there is some sort of supernatural energy that hangs around the corporeal world isnt all that weird.. and its not hypocritical. oh and as to facing ,my lack of faith someday... i have zero issue with it. its those who question their belief and their existence and what comes after that... if in fact those are mutually exclusive, that to me have the issue. i am confident in my atheism and i have been since i was 11 years old... ive never questioned it despite my eternal search for answers.. so seriously dude.. i dont know what your issue is but when you think you know what it is, please feel feel to share... and maybe i can help you sort through it.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
So i'm curious as to how all the athiest or non believers explain things to their kids. I teach my daughter about God and heaven and spirits and life after death and all that. What do you tell your kids? lights out? thats it! I'd be tramatized as a child if a parent told me that. I can honestly say this......I know for certain that there is such thing as ghosts and spirits. There is something after you die. I used to be a huge skeptic when it came to that kind of stuff but things have happened that has changed my outlook on it completely. I know for a fact that a very powerful spiritual energy source lives inside of us all. And people can laugh all they want, but you will have to face your lack of faith someday.
Well what do you tell your kids?
Do you tell them that when they die there is a gentle, old, wise, white man that lives in a beautiful place up in the clouds. He has been watching every person since the moment he made people a long time ago and if you have been good... you get to live a really cool eternal life after you die?
I know for a fact that a very powerful spiritual energy source lives inside of us all.
Strangely enough, after all your 'other' talk, I sort of agree with you on that one. Not that you KNOW for a FACT that this energy 'lives' inside of ALL but that there is an energy within.
Our energy, our inner strength - not an external one like the 'almighty god' thing and all that goes with it but OURS, from inside.
So i'm curious as to how all the athiest or non believers explain things to their kids. I teach my daughter about God and heaven and spirits and life after death and all that. What do you tell your kids? lights out? thats it! I'd be tramatized as a child if a parent told me that. I can honestly say this......I know for certain that there is such thing as ghosts and spirits. There is something after you die. I used to be a huge skeptic when it came to that kind of stuff but things have happened that has changed my outlook on it completely. I know for a fact that a very powerful spiritual energy source lives inside of us all. And people can laugh all they want, but you will have to face your lack of faith someday.
oh such an easy question... i talk to them with logic and ask them questions so they come to their own conclusions once theyve thought about what it ive asked them. my children arent traumatised by the fact that once theyre dead thier next step is like that of every other organism on the planet. in fact it makes sense... as for ghosts and spirits.. theyre just energy... being an atheist and believing that there is some sort of supernatural energy that hangs around the corporeal world isnt all that weird.. and its not hypocritical. oh and as to facing ,my lack of faith someday... i have zero issue with it. its those who question their belief and their existence and what comes after that... if in fact those are mutually exclusive, that to me have the issue. i am confident in my atheism and i have been since i was 11 years old... ive never questioned it despite my eternal search for answers.. so seriously dude.. i dont know what your issue is but when you think you know what it is, please feel feel to share... and maybe i can help you sort through it.
Why do ask what my issue is? Wasn't trying to come across as rude or pushy. Just saying where I stand on my beliefs. Why do athiest always assume people are trying to push there beliefs on them? I'm glad you're comfortable with your atheism. It really doesn't affect me at all. And when asking what you tell your kids it was really just a serious question. I had no idea how athiest handled that issue. And it was a good answer, even though I don't agree with it. I'm open to other people having the right to believe in whatever they want. The only time an athiest may bother me is when you hear a story about some teenage girl wanting a wall hanging taken down in her school because it has the word God on it. Really?? Like someone just having to look at the word is offensive? That to me is atheism being pushed upon others.
So i'm curious as to how all the athiest or non believers explain things to their kids. I teach my daughter about God and heaven and spirits and life after death and all that. What do you tell your kids? lights out? thats it! I'd be tramatized as a child if a parent told me that. I can honestly say this......I know for certain that there is such thing as ghosts and spirits. There is something after you die. I used to be a huge skeptic when it came to that kind of stuff but things have happened that has changed my outlook on it completely. I know for a fact that a very powerful spiritual energy source lives inside of us all. And people can laugh all they want, but you will have to face your lack of faith someday.
I'm neither a believer nor a non one and I don't profess to know a whole lot (except that I don't know a whole lot).
We don't have children, but my own upbringing? Honest conversations with my father, with the essence (taught - and shown to me by example) being that HOW you live your life is more important, valuable, than what comes after.
And that it never was - never could be - his place to ridicule anyone for their beliefs, or lack thereof.
I guess, bottom line for me...I hope you have peace in your beliefs, but maybe lay off on chiding those who don't share them.
Who are you to wave your finger?
Seriously not trying to ridicule anyone. Or wave a finger. Take it as you wish.
I know for a factthat a very powerful spiritual energy source lives inside of us all. And people can laugh all they want, but you will have to face your lack of faith someday.
I know for a factthat a very powerful spiritual energy source lives inside of us all. And people can laugh all they want, but you will have to face your lack of faith someday.
Well, those are my beliefs. If you are truly comfortable with your lack of faith that really shouldn't offend you.
Comments
I agree, Hugh. We all know how any story begins to become distorted and exaggerated with time as it moves from one listener to another. Legends grow greater.
The First Nations people speak of many legends that attempt to explain the earth. Many scoff at them, but how are they any different from the more elaborate tales detailed within the bible. Who is to say which is more correct? One group of people believes strongly in one account while another believes just as strongly in a different account.
From what I have gathered... my own opinion has it that Jesus was a philosophical leader who walked the earth and managed to inspire many around him by speaking of and exhibiting all the warm characteristics one should seek to practice in order to be a great human being. His teachings should not be ignored and are very valuable.
Reminds me of Braveheart when William Wallace was reported to be able to consume the English with fireballs from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
historically i have clashed with capricorns... explains a lot.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
so you have a "just in case" belief system?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I thought the same thing, but when you research it a bit, there's actually no physical evidence of his existence.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Actually... no. A lot of people... myself included... have never believed for one second that he existed. Maybe in a "Johnny Appleseed and Paul Bunyan were based on real people" kind of way. Even with that I'm dubious.
He was just a folk hero and the tall tales and story telling about him turning water into wine and living in the desert for 40 days and walking on water and bringing Lazerous back to life... that's all made up. Same with a "star" that somehow managed to hover in the same place in the sky for a few weeks, a virgin birth, resurrection... it's all made up.
I'm baffled as to how people can be so fucking gullible.
I wouldn't be shocked to learn that Jesus was a folk hero/tall tale but on the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised to learn there really was a guy named Jesus and he and his buddies walked around the desert high on peyote or something containing psilocybin.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Ok, but EVErYONE does that.
I have never seen any proof of that.
in fact... people's belief in a totalitarian magic entity in the sky that punishes people actually has been the cause of MOST murders, death and war in the history of humans.
In the long run, you're WORSE off for it.
ive no doubt ed and i would clash. he has a strong personality and opinions and so do i. the only thing im sure to sync with him on is we both drink... and enjoy it... oh and im sure we both talk our own decent amount of shit.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
And once you start looking you'll see that pretty much every single thing attributed to Jesus was performed or achieved by another "deity" before Jesus supposedly existed. I think it's pretty easy to doubt that he ever existed.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
*thats demon NOT the devil.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
except all of the miracles of jesus have to do with the demonstration of compassion or faith, or otherwise are meant to establish some sort of parable in action. Or in some cases (as with the wine at the wedding party) are meant sort of thematically (in the context of their performance, and the period it was performed in) to suggest something to the audience. [ie. in the Wine at the Wedding miracle, Jesus was both putting his "new wine" parable in to physical terms; demonstrating its context in a wedding; and also, the very act of transforming the water in to wine is kind of an enacted jab at the Jewish purity ritual which he was by way of action transforming and making obsolete]
I'm not even sure what to make of your original point.
it's just goofy. Which, maybe was the point?
If I opened it now would you not understand?
no, my point wasnt to be goofy. im reading this book at the moment titled witchcraft in the middle ages and it talks about religion and heresy and sorcery and how christianity came out on top of all the cults around back in the day and one of the points it discusses is the witch's ability to fly and what might be behind it. it spoke of how no one can fly but the demons had the ability to delude the people.. so they could deceive the people into thinking someone could fly when all it was was just an illusion. then the thought just popped into my head that with all the miracles jesus performed perhaps there was nothing more to them than deception and a touch of demon.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
God's gona be in Tears, i'm funny.
We don't have children, but my own upbringing? Honest conversations with my father, with the essence (taught - and shown to me by example) being that HOW you live your life is more important, valuable, than what comes after.
And that it never was - never could be - his place to ridicule anyone for their beliefs, or lack thereof.
I guess, bottom line for me...I hope you have peace in your beliefs, but maybe lay off on chiding those who don't share them.
Who are you to wave your finger?
oh such an easy question... i talk to them with logic and ask them questions so they come to their own conclusions once theyve thought about what it ive asked them. my children arent traumatised by the fact that once theyre dead thier next step is like that of every other organism on the planet. in fact it makes sense... as for ghosts and spirits.. theyre just energy... being an atheist and believing that there is some sort of supernatural energy that hangs around the corporeal world isnt all that weird.. and its not hypocritical. oh and as to facing ,my lack of faith someday... i have zero issue with it. its those who question their belief and their existence and what comes after that... if in fact those are mutually exclusive, that to me have the issue. i am confident in my atheism and i have been since i was 11 years old... ive never questioned it despite my eternal search for answers.. so seriously dude.. i dont know what your issue is but when you think you know what it is, please feel feel to share... and maybe i can help you sort through it.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Well what do you tell your kids?
Do you tell them that when they die there is a gentle, old, wise, white man that lives in a beautiful place up in the clouds. He has been watching every person since the moment he made people a long time ago and if you have been good... you get to live a really cool eternal life after you die?
Our energy, our inner strength - not an external one like the 'almighty god' thing and all that goes with it but OURS, from inside.
Why do ask what my issue is? Wasn't trying to come across as rude or pushy. Just saying where I stand on my beliefs. Why do athiest always assume people are trying to push there beliefs on them? I'm glad you're comfortable with your atheism. It really doesn't affect me at all. And when asking what you tell your kids it was really just a serious question. I had no idea how athiest handled that issue. And it was a good answer, even though I don't agree with it. I'm open to other people having the right to believe in whatever they want. The only time an athiest may bother me is when you hear a story about some teenage girl wanting a wall hanging taken down in her school because it has the word God on it. Really?? Like someone just having to look at the word is offensive? That to me is atheism being pushed upon others.
Seriously not trying to ridicule anyone. Or wave a finger. Take it as you wish.
Maybe these kind of statements have something to do with it?
Well, those are my beliefs. If you are truly comfortable with your lack of faith that really shouldn't offend you.