Rand Paul won't Shut Up

BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,781
edited March 2013 in A Moving Train
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/rand-paul-conducts-filibuster-in-opposition-to-john-brennan-obamas-drone-policy/2013/03/06/1367b1b4-868c-11e2-9d71-f0feafdd1394_story.html?hpid=z3

One of the oldest and most storied traditions of the Senate made a sudden return to Capitol Hill on Wednesday when a junior senator seized control of the chamber with an hours-long ­filibuster involving rambling speeches aimed at blocking a vote on President Obama’s choice to lead the CIA.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Jesus.

    It isn't about blocking a vote on an Obama nominee. That argument is so easily dismissed because Sen Paul voted to confirm Hagel and Kerry.

    It's about getting an answer about drone strikes from a pro drone, pro torture nominee.

    Even hardcore liberals like Van Jones were tweeting support for Rand Paul.

    I #StandwithRand
  • pj1981pj1981 Posts: 288
    I was glad he wouldn't shut up. At least it appears like someone's got our asses.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    I don't agree with everything Rand Paul does, but I do very much appreciate that he's going against the grain and trying to shake up things in Washington. We need CHANGE and at least it looks like he's trying to help bring that about.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    Bullshit. This is about nothing more than attracting attention to himself and furthering the Paul brand. Have a seat Rand.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    JimmyV wrote:
    Bullshit. This is about nothing more than attracting attention to himself and furthering the Paul brand. Have a seat Rand.


    It is amazing what motivations we attribute to someone when we disagree with them.

    He has been very consistent on this, it has nothing to do with the Paul Brand. Sometimes politicians actually mean what they say. Drones and their use on American citizens is a huge issue. I know you and I don't see eye to eye on it, but it is a bit scary to think that vague criteria can legally justify using a drone in the US...I think a simple answer to the question would have stopped it. He is definitely calling attention to something, but in this case it isn't himself.

    I don't care much for Rand, but I have to say I am proud of him today.

    I am amazed at the idea that those politicians on the left are simply ok with Obama having this power and those same politicians cried bloody murder over torture and Guantanamo Bay. What's worse?
    Imagine if Bush had said he has the right to drone strike American citizens on American soil...
    Lots of you hated Bush's war on terror...well, how does it feel knowing that when Obama's term is up we will have had an 8 year extension on those policies, even adding the targeted killing of Americans to the list.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Thank you Mr. Paul.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Yeah it's ok to fire a hellfire missile up an American's rear but you can't water board an admitted al-Qaeda leader.
  • Better DanBetter Dan Posts: 5,684
    2003: San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Seattle; 2005: Monterrey; 2006: Chicago 1 & 2, Grand Rapids, Cleveland, Detroit; 2008: West Palm Beach, Tampa; 2009: Austin, LA 3 & 4, San Diego; 2010: Kansas City, St. Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis; 2011: PJ20 1 & 2; 2012: Missoula; 2013: Dallas, Oklahoma City, Seattle; 2014: Tulsa; 2016: Columbia, New York City 1 & 2; 2018: London, Seattle 1 & 2; 2021: Ohana; 2022: Oklahoma City
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    know1 wrote:
    I don't agree with everything Rand Paul does, but I do very much appreciate that he's going against the grain and trying to shake up things in Washington. We need CHANGE and at least it looks like he's trying to help bring that about.
    Yup. Sad to say so, but it's refreshing to see someone walk the walk when they talk the talk - or however that goes.

    (I loved the clip of him chowing down in the midst of this...hope he had food brought in for everyone)
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Senator Lindsey Graham said "the idea that we're going to use a drone to attack a citizen in a cafe in America is ridiculous."

    Did law enforcement officials in California think of this or have this option when Christopher Dorner was on his rampage?
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    Bullshit. This is about nothing more than attracting attention to himself and furthering the Paul brand. Have a seat Rand.


    It is amazing what motivations we attribute to someone when we disagree with them.

    He has been very consistent on this, it has nothing to do with the Paul Brand. Sometimes politicians actually mean what they say. Drones and their use on American citizens is a huge issue. I know you and I don't see eye to eye on it, but it is a bit scary to think that vague criteria can legally justify using a drone in the US...I think a simple answer to the question would have stopped it. He is definitely calling attention to something, but in this case it isn't himself.

    I don't care much for Rand, but I have to say I am proud of him today.

    I am amazed at the idea that those politicians on the left are simply ok with Obama having this power and those same politicians cried bloody murder over torture and Guantanamo Bay. What's worse?
    Imagine if Bush had said he has the right to drone strike American citizens on American soil...
    Lots of you hated Bush's war on terror...well, how does it feel knowing that when Obama's term is up we will have had an 8 year extension on those policies, even adding the targeted killing of Americans to the list.

    Rand is a creation of the Paul brand. Every position he takes absolutely has something to do with the Paul brand. I don't trust him or his motives, regardless of what words are coming out of his mouth.

    And for the record, I was OK with torture and Guantanimo. Not a fan, but OK with the idea that there may be scenarios when torture was necessary. And I am OK with the president having this power as a last resort.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    meanwhile....

    McCain, Graham assail Rand Paul on targeted killings policy

    http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/20 ... olicy?lite

    Highlighting the discord among Republicans over President Barack Obama’s targeted killings policy, two prominent GOP senators, John McCain of Arizona and Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, took to the Senate floor to criticize Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul’s 12-hour filibuster Wednesday.

    Thirteen Republican senators – including Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell and the junior GOP senators from McCain’s and Graham’s home states -- joined Paul during his filibuster to show their support for his demand that President Barack Obama explicitly say whether he thinks he has the authority to order the killing of a U.S. citizen on U.S. soil who was a noncombatant and posed no imminent threat of an attack.

    Paul has delayed the confirmation of Obama’s CIA nominee John Brennan in order to dramatize his demand for an answer from Obama.

    McCain said Thursday the Senate needed to conduct hearings and an in-depth debate on Obama’s targeted killings policy, “but that conversation should not be talking about drones killing Jane Fonda and people in cafes. It should be all about what authority and what checks and balances should exist” in order to combat “an enemy that we know will be with us for a long time.”

    In his filibuster Paul had approvingly quoted an article by National Review writer Kevin Williamson which said, “As satisfying as putting Jane Fonda on a kill list might have been, I don’t think our understanding of the law would have approved such a thing even though she did give communist aid to the aggressor in Vietnam (in the 1970s).”

    While Paul was conducting his filibuster, McCain and Graham were among a group of Republican senators having dinner with Obama at a Washington, D.C. hotel.

    Graham scoffed at Paul’s question about whether Obama thinks he has the authority to kill a noncombatant American citizen on U.S. soil.

    “I find the question offensive,” Graham said Thursday on the Senate floor. “As much I disagree with President Obama and as much as I support past presidents, I do not believe that question deserves an answer.” Paul’s question, the South Carolina Republican said, “cheapens the debate.”

    Graham said flatly that Obama would not use a drone against a noncombatant sitting in a café somewhere in the United States.

    But there was less of a policy split that might have appeared on the surface: Paul repeatedly said during his filibuster that the government can and should use lethal force in cases when an attack is imminent.

    He cited the scenario of a terrorist who was about to attack the U.S. Capitol with a bazooka or rocket launcher, as well as similar scenarios.

    But Paul said the Obama administration has not yet made clear “what rules are going to be used in America. If you’re going to kill noncombatants, people eating dinner in America, there have to be some rules. Does the Constitution apply?”

    When Attorney General Eric Holder testified before the Senate Judiciary Committee he repeatedly said the use of a drone to kill an American citizen on U.S. soil who wasn’t an imminent threat wouldn’t be an “appropriate” use of lethal force.

    After repeated questioning from Sen. Ted Cruz, R- Texas, Holder finally said it would also not be constitutional. Holder said, “I thought I was saying ‘no.’ All right, no.”

    In his comments on the Senate floor Thursday, Graham reprised the points he made Wednesday during the Holder hearing.

    But the Paul filibuster and the excitement it generated among libertarians and Republicans has given new visibility to the discord over the targeted killings strategy and whether Obama might seek to apply it to U.S. citizen who posed an imminent threat.

    Graham said to Holder, “I want to stand by you and the president to make sure we don’t criminalize the war and that the commander-in-chief continues to have the authority to protect us all.” He said “a lot of my colleagues are well-meaning but there is only one commander-in-chief in our Constitution.”
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • pj1981pj1981 Posts: 288
    I think this man has a great future. :)
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Senator Lindsey Graham said "the idea that we're going to use a drone to attack a citizen in a cafe in America is ridiculous."

    Did law enforcement officials in California think of this or have this option when Christopher Dorner was on his rampage?
    ...
    Nope.
    They knew he would surface and would be easily recognized due to the overwhelming media exposure.
    Dorner made the same mistake every murderer on the run who barricades himself in a single unit structure makes... insufficient fire suppression systems available.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • butterjambutterjam Posts: 215
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... executions

    "Barack Obama and John Brennan direct the drone strikes that are killing thousands of civilians. It doesn't make us safer. It makes whole populations, from Yemen to Pakistan, hate us. Senator Paul's outrage with the president's claimed right to kill US citizens is entirely appropriate. That there is not more outrage at the thousands killed around the globe is shameful … and dangerous."

    No, I guess we should have outrage over a Senator talking about the legality of killing US citizens and why he won't shut up because he's a Republican.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    butterjam wrote:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/07/america-shamed-rand-paul-drone-executions

    "Barack Obama and John Brennan direct the drone strikes that are killing thousands of civilians. It doesn't make us safer. It makes whole populations, from Yemen to Pakistan, hate us. Senator Paul's outrage with the president's claimed right to kill US citizens is entirely appropriate. That there is not more outrage at the thousands killed around the globe is shameful … and dangerous."

    No, I guess we should have outrage over a Senator talking about the legality of killing US citizens and why he won't shut up because he's a Republican.
    no, but you should be outraged that a man actually stood up and mounted a 13 hour filibuster, like he should do, only to end the filibuster after receiving a 4 sentence letter from the white house....let's waste a little more time i guess....

    people are not going to remember rand paul stood up because he was unsuccessful. like everything else the gop has tried to do in recent memory.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • butterjambutterjam Posts: 215
    butterjam wrote:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/07/america-shamed-rand-paul-drone-executions

    "Barack Obama and John Brennan direct the drone strikes that are killing thousands of civilians. It doesn't make us safer. It makes whole populations, from Yemen to Pakistan, hate us. Senator Paul's outrage with the president's claimed right to kill US citizens is entirely appropriate. That there is not more outrage at the thousands killed around the globe is shameful … and dangerous."

    No, I guess we should have outrage over a Senator talking about the legality of killing US citizens and why he won't shut up because he's a Republican.
    no, but you should be outraged that a man actually stood up and mounted a 13 hour filibuster, like he should do, only to end the filibuster after receiving a 4 sentence letter from the white house....let's waste a little more time i guess....

    people are not going to remember rand paul stood up because he was unsuccessful. like everything else the gop has tried to do in recent memory.

    It got a lot of press and the admin to finally write something on it. Now if they could just give a legal reason why they can do it overseas. Or if we can start having our ignorant American public realize we have no right to launch drones against a country we are not at war with.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    butterjam wrote:
    It got a lot of press and the admin to finally write something on it. Now if they could just give a legal reason why they can do it overseas. Or if we can start having our ignorant American public realize we have no right to launch drones against a country we are not at war with.
    i agree it got a lot of press, but if paul knew he did not have the votes, why go through the charade? why did he end the filibuster if he knew confirmation was inevitable?

    and i agree. i think the entire drone program is an example of war crimes in countries who we are in conflict with, and crimes against humanity when we bomb civilians in countries who we are not at war with.

    i have an issue with drone "pilots" getting combat medals. they sit at a desk and they risk nothing. there is no valor in that. kinda like snipers. i see no valor in that either.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    butterjam wrote:
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/07/america-shamed-rand-paul-drone-executions

    "Barack Obama and John Brennan direct the drone strikes that are killing thousands of civilians. It doesn't make us safer. It makes whole populations, from Yemen to Pakistan, hate us. Senator Paul's outrage with the president's claimed right to kill US citizens is entirely appropriate. That there is not more outrage at the thousands killed around the globe is shameful … and dangerous."

    No, I guess we should have outrage over a Senator talking about the legality of killing US citizens and why he won't shut up because he's a Republican.
    no, but you should be outraged that a man actually stood up and mounted a 13 hour filibuster, like he should do, only to end the filibuster after receiving a 4 sentence letter from the white house....let's waste a little more time i guess....

    people are not going to remember rand paul stood up because he was unsuccessful. like everything else the gop has tried to do in recent memory.

    He was successful. He wasn't looking to stop the inevitable confirmation, he simply wanted and answer to a valid question that the white house or the attorney general would answer.

    I am in no way a republican sympathizer, but Sen Paul used a very basic and legitimate forum to get the answer.
  • And now he's saying he's considering tuning for president.

    Which is why he needed a big publicity stunt.
  • pj1981pj1981 Posts: 288
    Wow kind of cute President :)
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    And now he's saying he's considering tuning for president.

    Which is why he needed a big publicity stunt.

    Couldn't agree more.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    edited March 2013
    Can one of Rand's many fans confirm when they receive the first fund raising appeal from him referencing this "performance"? My bet is that emails have probably already gone out. Not that there is anything wrong with that. This is what politicians do. But lets just remember that Rand is a politician, and this was a performance with a goal.
    Post edited by JimmyV on
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    It also forced the White House to issue a statement. All of you that accuse the GOP of playing politics are doing exactly that in this thread. He won a huge battle this week. I can't wait to work for him and to vote for him.


    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... yesterday/
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    unsung wrote:
    It also forced the White House to issue a statement. All of you that accuse the GOP of playing politics are doing exactly that in this thread. He won a huge battle this week. I can't wait to work for him and to vote for him.


    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... yesterday/



    Van Jones, From the link Unsung posted for those that won't click on it

    “Rand Paul was a hero yesterday,” Mr. Jones said in a CNN appearance this morning. “And what I’ve been hearing is a lot of shame from liberals and progressives who felt like, ‘Geeze we should be the ones up there sticking up for civil liberties and we should be the ones asking those tough questions. I think this is a very important watershed moment.”
    “What Rand Paul did yesterday was he used the filibuster the way it’s supposed to be used,” he continued. “… I think it’s wrong to call it a stunt … This was not a stunt, this was democracy.”
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    If you keep everything that happened exactly the same and under the same existing circumstances ... except every politician had the (D) or (R) before their name reversed ... it would be interesting to see everyones point of view and if it changed or not.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    unsung wrote:
    It also forced the White House to issue a statement. All of you that accuse the GOP of playing politics are doing exactly that in this thread. He won a huge battle this week. I can't wait to work for him and to vote for him.


    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... yesterday/

    I wouldn't say all but there are certainly some politics being played, yes.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Jason P wrote:
    If you keep everything that happened exactly the same and under the same existing circumstances ... except every politician had the (D) or (R) before their name reversed ... it would be interesting to see everyones point of view and if it changed or not.
    Here here.

    I found myself doing this a few years ago and forced myself to stop - to listen without partisan ears.

    Kind of eye-opening...liberating...amusing, even!

    Common sense and accountability, among other things, are what guide me. Not a fucking party.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    Jason P wrote:
    If you keep everything that happened exactly the same and under the same existing circumstances ... except every politician had the (D) or (R) before their name reversed ... it would be interesting to see everyones point of view and if it changed or not.

    It would be quite interesting. Some may very well change. Mine would not be one of them, though. For me this isn't about (D) and (R), it is about Rand Paul. This is a guy who gave his own response to the state of the union a few weeks ago. No one will ever convince me that this, much like that, was not a brand-building stunt.

    If Scott Brown were still in the Senate and done this exact same thing my opinion would be quite different.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    David Frum on the #randstand, via Twitter:

    "I feel so much freer now that Rand Paul has got administration to forswear a totally fictional plan to kill Americans with drones."

    "But I won't feel totally free until Rand Paul has got the administration to rule out FEMA concentration camps."
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
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