I like to speak about myself and not what YOU or others should do. Kind of sounds preachy, and I know you don't want to be one of THOSE people.
I can't say I agree with the first part of his post, as I don't (can't) know.
But as to the last? In agreement - doesn't matter where the choice to live an honorable life, leave your good name behind, comes from. It's more important one actually DOES. Or does their best to.
Funny, I re-read part of my dad's ethical will earlier today - he wrote it a few years before he died, for an event his temple was holding. He spoke of how he didn't pray every day but did carry god within him and tried to abide by the morals he was taught (of course, credit to his parents).
It just struck me that even though I'm now agnostic, morality is simply basic common decency...compassion... integrity and honoring your word.
It just struck me that even though I'm now agnostic, morality is simply basic common decency...compassion... integrity and honoring your word.
...
If there is a God... i'm pretty sure He likes compassionate Atheists more than apathetic or indifferent religious folk. Sort of like I hope He cares more about loving Gay people than the people who use His name to justify their hatred.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,083
Do we all agree that there is no proof of a God or gods? If so, are we attempting to answer a question for which there is no absolute answer?
And not to get off topic too much but, is it possible to neither believe in nor disbelieve in God and not be an agnostic? I hope that is possible.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Sorry Dimitris...wasn't quite sure how your name was scanning :fp:
no worries,i didnt say that about Dimitri-Dimitris
is like a joke..
someone says..God
someone reply,its ok,dont call me God,you can call me with my name(Dimitris)
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
......
But as to the last? In agreement - doesn't matter where the choice to live an honorable life, leave your good name behind, comes from. It's more important one actually DOES. Or does their best to...
...morality is simply basic common decency...compassion... integrity and honoring your word.
What I like about church folk I know is the generosity, the actions behind the easy words
that others use. The dedication to living a life as mentioned here not just saying they do.
It's easy to say it and know what the words mean, easy to fool yourself,
when some people day in and day out sacrifice, give, live charitable lives, accepting,
loving because of what they are taught, reminded of, learn in church
and carry in their hearts to the waiting world.
I ask myself each day what have I done? Something everyone could do. If it's just vague
words making yourself feel better about yourself, it's really nothing at all.
For the hypocrites in denial it's really nothing.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
Do we all agree that there is no proof of a God or gods? If so, are we attempting to answer a question for which there is no absolute answer?
And not to get off topic too much but, is it possible to neither believe in nor disbelieve in God and not be an agnostic? I hope that is possible.
I think at this point in my life, when it comes to god, I am agnostic - definition per Merriam:
"a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god"
(not that the label is necessary )
Belief to me isn't tantamount to knowledge...it may be a firmly-held, life-directing belief one has and believes to be true (and it may be, for them), but that doesn't make it universal truth.
In other words, whatever gets you to the light, it's alright.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,083
Do we all agree that there is no proof of a God or gods? If so, are we attempting to answer a question for which there is no absolute answer?
And not to get off topic too much but, is it possible to neither believe in nor disbelieve in God and not be an agnostic? I hope that is possible.
I think at this point in my life, when it comes to god, I am agnostic - definition per Merriam:
"a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god"
(not that the label is necessary )
Belief to me isn't tantamount to knowledge...it may be a firmly-held, life-directing belief one has and believes to be true (and it may be, for them), but that doesn't make it universal truth.
In other words, whatever gets you to the light, it's alright.
" whatever gets you to the light, it's alright"-- Cool. I like that.
Looking at the first part of the definition, I suppose one could say I have agnostic tendencies although I think of God as "unprovable" as opposed to "unknowable" (who's to say what another knows or doesn't?). But looking at the second ("broadly:") part of the definition, I'm not so sure that fits. I am committed to the idea that there is something that moves in big ways we don't understand. As with many of us, I've experienced things I can't understand through purely empirical means. Does that mean these things happen by way of God or a "higher power" or do they happen by scientific means we don't understand? For example, our thoughts are electrical impulses. Can these impulses have effects we do not yet understand now but that science may some day explain?
The way I feel now, I don't really want to know the answer to those questions. That would take away the mystery of it all and there is something very appealing to me about mystery- like the fact that people can sometimes do things beyond their normal capabilities. For example- I have created songs in my dreams that I can't imagine creating- my few attempts at writing songs while awake are very unimpressive. Or when people dream about things before they happen. Things like that are mysterious. I like that.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Brian - does proof = knowledge? Agnostos = unknown (at the time, with our capabilities?), incapable of being known (ie cannot prove?).
Agnostic also has another definition: "a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic".
Being agnostic (ie recognising one does not have the knowledge) does not exclude belief in a 'force'. It just accepts that it is not 'knowledge' but 'belief'. Unlike theists will assert their 'knowledge' of a deity (or more than one) - ie. belief = knowledge.
(Am I making sense?)
And... have you heard of agnostic theism???
All these labels - enough to make your mind boggle. Buy why bother with labels? Ah yes.... keeps things in order so we all know where everyone and everything stands in life!
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,083
Brian - does proof = knowledge? Agnostos = unknown (at the time, with our capabilities?), incapable of being known (ie cannot prove?).
Agnostic also has another definition: "a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic".
Being agnostic (ie recognising one does not have the knowledge) does not exclude belief in a 'force'. It just accepts that it is not 'knowledge' but 'belief'. Unlike theists will assert their 'knowledge' of a deity (or more than one) - ie. belief = knowledge.
(Am I making sense?)
And... have you heard of agnostic theism???
All these labels - enough to make your mind boggle. Buy why bother with labels? Ah yes.... keeps things in order so we all know where everyone and everything stIands in life!
Redrock, my head is spinning!
But I think you hit the nail on the head with "But why bother with labels?" If I had to fill out a questionnaire that included "Religious affiliation" I would have to answer: none of the above.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Do we all agree that there is no proof of a God or gods? If so, are we attempting to answer a question for which there is no absolute answer?
And not to get off topic too much but, is it possible to neither believe in nor disbelieve in God and not be an agnostic? I hope that is possible.
I think at this point in my life, when it comes to god, I am agnostic - definition per Merriam:
"a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god"
(not that the label is necessary )
Belief to me isn't tantamount to knowledge...it may be a firmly-held, life-directing belief one has and believes to be true (and it may be, for them), but that doesn't make it universal truth.
In other words, whatever gets you to the light, it's alright.
" whatever gets you to the light, it's alright"-- Cool. I like that.
Looking at the first part of the definition, I suppose one could say I have agnostic tendencies although I think of God as "unprovable" as opposed to "unknowable" (who's to say what another knows or doesn't?). But looking at the second ("broadly:") part of the definition, I'm not so sure that fits. I am committed to the idea that there is something that moves in big ways we don't understand. As with many of us, I've experienced things I can't understand through purely empirical means. Does that mean these things happen by way of God or a "higher power" or do they happen by scientific means we don't understand? For example, our thoughts are electrical impulses. Can these impulses have effects we do not yet understand now but that science may some day explain?
The way I feel now, I don't really want to know the answer to those questions. That would take away the mystery of it all and there is something very appealing to me about mystery- like the fact that people can sometimes do things beyond their normal capabilities. For example- I have created songs in my dreams that I can't imagine creating- my few attempts at writing songs while awake are very unimpressive. Or when people dream about things before they happen. Things like that are mysterious. I like that.
these things are also a good exercise in humility. nothing wrong with that.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
...
If there is a God... i'm pretty sure He likes compassionate Atheists more than apathetic or indifferent religious folk. Sort of like I hope He cares more about loving Gay people than the people who use His name to justify their hatred.
Takes more faith to believe in nothing than something! Universe is big and intelligent design seems to be best theory!
This is one way to put it.
If by best you mean the wrong one then BINGO it's the best the best the best the best the best the best the best!
"The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it"
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,083
If there was a God we would not be loosing an hour of sleep next weekend! :x
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
I love the time change but I thrive on change, I know some don't.
I mean, it's only sleep, especially in the vibrant springtime!
I like both changes, late sun in the spring, welcomed light evenings,
early darkness in the fall gain an hour as we start hibernation time.
Manmade but making God's world a little better at least for me.
Takes more faith to believe in nothing than something! Universe is big and intelligent design seems to be best theory!
The Universe is growing! Wow and infinite Wow...
if that doesn't help someone to believe in Intelligent Design nothing will.
It's all in the Light and Time
Comments
But as to the last? In agreement - doesn't matter where the choice to live an honorable life, leave your good name behind, comes from. It's more important one actually DOES. Or does their best to.
Funny, I re-read part of my dad's ethical will earlier today - he wrote it a few years before he died, for an event his temple was holding. He spoke of how he didn't pray every day but did carry god within him and tried to abide by the morals he was taught (of course, credit to his parents).
It just struck me that even though I'm now agnostic, morality is simply basic common decency...compassion... integrity and honoring your word.
If there is a God... i'm pretty sure He likes compassionate Atheists more than apathetic or indifferent religious folk. Sort of like I hope He cares more about loving Gay people than the people who use His name to justify their hatred.
Hail, Hail!!!
And not to get off topic too much but, is it possible to neither believe in nor disbelieve in God and not be an agnostic? I hope that is possible.
want to be enlightened"
Sorry Dimitris...wasn't quite sure how your name was scanning :fp:
is like a joke..
someone says..God
someone reply,its ok,dont call me God,you can call me with my name(Dimitris)
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
So... I'm confused. You said I'm "preachy" when I said "Just try to live a life you'd want to leave behind."
You think you should live a life you'd be ashamed to leave behind?
I mean... knock yourself out but it seems a bit hollow.
:fp: :fp: :fp:
Yep.
that others use. The dedication to living a life as mentioned here not just saying they do.
It's easy to say it and know what the words mean, easy to fool yourself,
when some people day in and day out sacrifice, give, live charitable lives, accepting,
loving because of what they are taught, reminded of, learn in church
and carry in their hearts to the waiting world.
I ask myself each day what have I done? Something everyone could do. If it's just vague
words making yourself feel better about yourself, it's really nothing at all.
For the hypocrites in denial it's really nothing.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
yeah, i said don't use them.
"a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god"
(not that the label is necessary
Belief to me isn't tantamount to knowledge...it may be a firmly-held, life-directing belief one has and believes to be true (and it may be, for them), but that doesn't make it universal truth.
In other words, whatever gets you to the light, it's alright.
" whatever gets you to the light, it's alright"-- Cool. I like that.
Looking at the first part of the definition, I suppose one could say I have agnostic tendencies although I think of God as "unprovable" as opposed to "unknowable" (who's to say what another knows or doesn't?). But looking at the second ("broadly:") part of the definition, I'm not so sure that fits. I am committed to the idea that there is something that moves in big ways we don't understand. As with many of us, I've experienced things I can't understand through purely empirical means. Does that mean these things happen by way of God or a "higher power" or do they happen by scientific means we don't understand? For example, our thoughts are electrical impulses. Can these impulses have effects we do not yet understand now but that science may some day explain?
The way I feel now, I don't really want to know the answer to those questions. That would take away the mystery of it all and there is something very appealing to me about mystery- like the fact that people can sometimes do things beyond their normal capabilities. For example- I have created songs in my dreams that I can't imagine creating- my few attempts at writing songs while awake are very unimpressive. Or when people dream about things before they happen. Things like that are mysterious. I like that.
Agnostic also has another definition: "a person who holds neither of two opposing positions on a topic".
Being agnostic (ie recognising one does not have the knowledge) does not exclude belief in a 'force'. It just accepts that it is not 'knowledge' but 'belief'. Unlike theists will assert their 'knowledge' of a deity (or more than one) - ie. belief = knowledge.
(Am I making sense?)
And... have you heard of agnostic theism???
All these labels - enough to make your mind boggle. Buy why bother with labels? Ah yes.... keeps things in order so we all know where everyone and everything stands in life!
Redrock, my head is spinning!
But I think you hit the nail on the head with "But why bother with labels?" If I had to fill out a questionnaire that included "Religious affiliation" I would have to answer: none of the above.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I tell you, these 'thought dumps' of mine send my own head spinning!
not a chance load of bo..ocks imo BUT if it brings you happiness ,peace,and enjoyment then good luck to you as long as you dont push it on others .
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
This is one way to put it.
-- Jack Handy
Hail, Hail!!!
If by best you mean the wrong one then BINGO it's the best the best the best the best the best the best the best!
Neil deGrasse Tyson
Why not (V) (°,,,,°) (V) ?
(I've actually arranged to take off the Monday after since that lost hour has come to fuck me all-around, and not in my preferred way
I mean, it's only sleep, especially in the vibrant springtime!
I like both changes, late sun in the spring, welcomed light evenings,
early darkness in the fall gain an hour as we start hibernation time.
Manmade but making God's world a little better at least for me.
if that doesn't help someone to believe in Intelligent Design nothing will.
It's all in the Light and Time