What Is Discrimination?

2

Comments

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Jeanwah wrote:
    It's just a no-brainer to not discriminate if you want success in business...
    Agreed!

    It's one of the things I love about this country - we're free to succeed, and free to fail.

    Neither should be hindered :)
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Idris wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    thing is ... state laws prevent this guy from doing such a thing ...

    It's a silly law, people should be allowed to turn away who they like, for whatever reasons.

    I mean,It's not the right thing to do, but we can't truly solve 'hate' with laws.
    -

    not sure if this is sarcasm ... if not - i would respond by saying ... laws are in place for a reason ... in lieu of societal indifference and apathy - laws sometimes enforce an ideal by which we should strive ...
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    polaris_x wrote:
    Idris wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    thing is ... state laws prevent this guy from doing such a thing ...

    It's a silly law, people should be allowed to turn away who they like, for whatever reasons.

    I mean,It's not the right thing to do, but we can't truly solve 'hate' with laws.
    -

    not sure if this is sarcasm ... if not - i would respond by saying ... laws are in place for a reason ... in lieu of societal indifference and apathy - laws sometimes enforce an ideal by which we should strive ...

    " laws sometimes enforce an ideal by which we should strive", I agree with that.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    polaris_x wrote:
    not sure if this is sarcasm ... if not - i would respond by saying ... laws are in place for a reason ... in lieu of societal indifference and apathy - laws sometimes enforce an ideal by which we should strive ...

    But ultimately, we want society motivated by means other than because the law says so. Don't get me wrong... we most certainly need laws to establish and support baseline behaviour, but more importantly, we need to live by higher standards that reflect advancement.

    This brings me back to my previous post when I suggested that society's response aside from the law would likely have much more of an effect curbing undesirable behaviour. It would be a pretty clear message if the doors to the bakery weren't opened by customers given the fact the proprietor was exposed as an intolerant.

    Members of society have much more control than they think they do. If the baker's actions were offensive to one's sense of decency... then one should abstain from frequenting the business to show their displeasure- even if it means going an extra couple of miles to the next baker.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    not sure if this is sarcasm ... if not - i would respond by saying ... laws are in place for a reason ... in lieu of societal indifference and apathy - laws sometimes enforce an ideal by which we should strive ...

    But ultimately, we want society motivated by means other than because the law says so. Don't get me wrong... we most certainly need laws to establish and support baseline behaviour, but more importantly, we need to live by higher standards that reflect advancement.

    Members of society have much more control than they think they do. If the baker's actions were offensive to one's sense of decency... then one should abstain from frequenting the business to show their displeasure- even if it means going an extra couple of miles to the next baker.

    Very well said,
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Idris wrote:

    It's a silly law, people should be allowed to turn away who they like, for whatever reasons.

    I mean,It's not the right thing to do, but we can't truly solve 'hate' with laws.


    I agree. A person should be able to be as stupid as they want.

    On the flip side, the people affected by it can be as vocal as they want. Put the guy out of business.

    Why would you want someone forced to sell you food even though they don't want to?....seems like a recipe for disaster (you see what I did there)

    What an asshole the baker is...I can't imagine being discriminated against like that and what that must feel like...
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    If his beliefs get in the way of his ability to serve his customers, maybe he should be in business where he doesnt have to serve people. Because ultimately, we're never all going to agree with other people's decisions.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    not sure if this is sarcasm ... if not - i would respond by saying ... laws are in place for a reason ... in lieu of societal indifference and apathy - laws sometimes enforce an ideal by which we should strive ...

    But ultimately, we want society motivated by means other than because the law says so. Don't get me wrong... we most certainly need laws to establish and support baseline behaviour, but more importantly, we need to live by higher standards that reflect advancement.

    This brings me back to my previous post when I suggested that society's response aside from the law would likely have much more of an effect curbing undesirable behaviour. It would be a pretty clear message if the doors to the bakery weren't opened by customers given the fact the proprietor was exposed as an intolerant.

    Members of society have much more control than they think they do. If the baker's actions were offensive to one's sense of decency... then one should abstain from frequenting the business to show their displeasure- even if it means going an extra couple of miles to the next baker.

    ya ... i mean like i said earlier in the thread - part of me admires him ... and in a way - boycotting his store is a measure of intolerance as well ...

    but the laws are put in place for a reason as a wedding cake can be substituted i would think (especially in a market like portland) but what if a married lesbian couple's car breaks down and they take it to a mechanic who won't work in it ... there's just so many examples where if left to society to address may cause indirect consequences that are much more severe than a wedding cake ...
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    mikepegg44 wrote:

    I agree. A person should be able to be as stupid as they want.

    On the flip side, the people affected by it can be as vocal as they want. Put the guy out of business.

    Why would you want someone forced to sell you food even though they don't want to?....seems like a recipe for disaster (you see what I did there)

    What an asshole the baker is...I can't imagine being discriminated against like that and what that must feel like...

    Right on,
    -
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    polaris_x wrote:

    boycotting his store is a measure of intolerance as well ...

    interesting thought.

    makes one think about what it means to be tolerant
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    We've had to fire a few customers in our 20 years in business, not for color, sexual preference,
    religious choices but cause they were assholes, pure and simple. I guess that is a form of intolerance too.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    It's pretty difficult to get away from discrimination in life.

    Basically, every choice we make is a form of it. Who are friends are, what businesses we frequent, places we work, etc.

    If I had a business, I personally wouldn't refuse services to someone based upon sexual preference, race, etc., but for many businesses I don't see the justification for making that illegal. We, as consumers, can punish them by not buying their products.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1
    know1 Posts: 6,801
    even flow - question mark wrote:
    Maybe it was due to religious reasons. No, wait, religion preaches love, not discrimination.

    I'm not sure of the point of this comment, but my religion preaches and practices love.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • JonnyPistachio
    JonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:

    boycotting his store is a measure of intolerance as well ...

    interesting thought.

    makes one think about what it means to be tolerant

    interesting.. Good point.
    And I cant even really put it into words, but I guess what I'd try to say is that there's different types of intolerance, stemming from motive..
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,621
    polaris_x wrote:
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    just amazing.. So, by denying the couple the cake, you gotta wonder, is the baker trying to thwart their plan to have a wedding, or he just doenst want them to have cake? Its like a kid packing their toys, storming off and taking them home.. immature.
    No matter how you feel, that is absolutely terrible business. I suppose the business should be able to refuse customers if they want, but they will have to deal with the consequences. Where was this?

    portland of all places! ... :lol::lol:

    http://www.edgeonthenet.com/news/nation ... ian_couple

    first link that came up - read it originally on yahoo

    Not to hate on poor Gresham. It's the first suburb to the east of Portland, and you could say it's a little behind. Still, the guy may have to move shop to Coos Bay.
  • even flow - question mark
    even flow - question mark Posts: 1,568
    know1 wrote:
    even flow - question mark wrote:
    Maybe it was due to religious reasons. No, wait, religion preaches love, not discrimination.

    I'm not sure of the point of this comment, but my religion preaches and practices love.


    I posted this earlier in the thread.....

    This is no different from the Muslim barber who didn't want to cut the dykes hair here in the city.


    There religion preaches the same as every other, no?


    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/s ... regor.html

    The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08

  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    JonnyPistachio wrote:
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:

    boycotting his store is a measure of intolerance as well ...

    interesting thought.

    makes one think about what it means to be tolerant

    interesting.. Good point.
    And I cant even really put it into words, but I guess what I'd try to say is that there's different types of intolerance, stemming from motive..

    In this case though... people would be discriminating more against an action versus a person. I would think that people can be forgiven and if the baker made successful attempts to show he has rethought his position, people would be inclined to let him offf the hook.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • polaris_x
    polaris_x Posts: 13,559
    what i find really strange is that he has no problems serving the LGBT community and that he is happy to bake them cakes but just not wedding cakes ... so does it mean that he is okay with non-heterosexuals but feels like if they get married - it takes away from his own marriage? ... or is it that he tolerates non-heterosexuals because they pay in the same currency but he draws the line at the marriage thing?

    i really don't understand why some people feel like they can own a word ... i can understand defining it however you want but so can others ... why do these people care so much? ... i would understand it more if they just didn't serve the LGBT community at all ...
  • Jeanwah
    Jeanwah Posts: 6,363
    polaris_x wrote:
    what i find really strange is that he has no problems serving the LGBT community and that he is happy to bake them cakes but just not wedding cakes ... so does it mean that he is okay with non-heterosexuals but feels like if they get married - it takes away from his own marriage? ... or is it that he tolerates non-heterosexuals because they pay in the same currency but he draws the line at the marriage thing?

    i really don't understand why some people feel like they can own a word ... i can understand defining it however you want but so can others ... why do these people care so much? ... i would understand it more if they just didn't serve the LGBT community at all ...

    Tradition!! :lol: (Sorry, it's what my father would say, as he's ok with his nephew being gay but not for gays to actually get married.)
  • BinauralJam
    BinauralJam Posts: 14,158
    Must be 21 to buy Alcohol

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