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What Is Discrimination?
polaris_x
Posts: 13,559
just read a story about how a baker refused to bake a wedding cake when he found out that the couple were same-sex ...
most of the comments on yahoo seem to share the viewpoint that as a private business - they can refuse to enter into a contract with whomever they please ...
thing is - isn't it illegal to discriminate? i mean - what if he said he refused to bake a cake cause the couple were black!? ... i am guessing that would be problematic ...
having said that - i would hate to own a business and have stephen harper come in ... i'd refuse him business ...
most of the comments on yahoo seem to share the viewpoint that as a private business - they can refuse to enter into a contract with whomever they please ...
thing is - isn't it illegal to discriminate? i mean - what if he said he refused to bake a cake cause the couple were black!? ... i am guessing that would be problematic ...
having said that - i would hate to own a business and have stephen harper come in ... i'd refuse him business ...
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That said, there's a flip side to the word "discriminating". The motto I came up with for my business is "Quality used books for the discriminating reader".
just amazing.. So, by denying the couple the cake, you gotta wonder, is the baker trying to thwart their plan to have a wedding, or he just doenst want them to have cake? Its like a kid packing their toys, storming off and taking them home.. immature.
No matter how you feel, that is absolutely terrible business. I suppose the business should be able to refuse customers if they want, but they will have to deal with the consequences. Where was this?
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
portland of all places! ...
http://www.edgeonthenet.com/news/nation ... ian_couple
first link that came up - read it originally on yahoo
:fp: Amazing.
So, since his religious beliefs are against gay marriage, he's willing to jeopardize his business.. Even though the cake part is just people eating a pile of sugar and has nothing to do with the ceremony. What a strange was to do business.
He'll be out of business in no time, seeing as it's gay-friendly Portland...
It'll play out and he'll reap what he's sown.
In the end, it's his business, no? Up to him to have it flourish or atrophy.
There have been a few instances of B&B's fined for not giving gay couples a room (or restricting the type of room they could have - depending on the case). They were found to have acted unlawfully and were guilty of discrimination based on sexual orientation. The cases I read about were not in the USA but Canada and the UK.
They may have been a private business but they were offering a service/goods to the genera public and thus are not allowed to discriminate.
there are many things that breed extremism and religion is definitely one ... apparently there are other bakeries that did the same thing ... and the 1 guy said he'd rather shut down than go against his religious beliefs ...
upon reflection - i feel that it is sad that these people would take their religious beliefs to the point of impacting others ... with the premise that baking a cake for a same sex couple does not equate to them validating it and the notion that their religious beliefs probably dictate other things that they choose not to uphold ... but having said all that - i somewhat admire their conviction and their willingness to sacrifice their almighty dollar to uphold them ...
it's the world we live in i suppose ...
thing is ... state laws may not allow him to do so ...
Yeah, I agree.
I just wish the entire state would get together and say, we simply dont like your attitude, so you may not buy gas, groceries, or clothes here. Starve or move motherfucker.
Should they have a say in who they serve?
Laws are nice, but society can exert much more influence than any law might by holding these types accountable. People have more influence than they think: they need to make conscientious decisions when choosing who to support. Just as people boycotted businesses that supported apartheid, buy locally grown produce, or abstain from purchasing items made in sweat shops... people should not frequent places that practice intolerance.
When I make any decision on moral grounds, I explain to my children why I chose to act in that manner and entertain a discussion surrounding the topic on hand. I want my kids to understand how to react appropriately to events or things in society so that they have a chance of developing a mindset that will allow them to act in a responsible manner once they are out from my umbrella and become contributing members of society.
It will be interesting to gauge the fallout from such a poor decision.
This is no different from the Muslim barber who didn't want to cut the dykes hair here in the city.
If it is their business, one would think they can deny who they want.
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
I would not refuse business to Harper, sure I don't like him, but I like the dollars in his pocket. ( :P )
But of course while I'm serving Harper I'd for sure let him know what I think about him and his politics.
But I'd do it after he pays,
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Reminds me of those 'what would you do' episodes where business owners refuse to serve customers because of some bias or whatever the case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvIDqgyK8fw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plaqunpTzvM
As for this particular business (and agreed with Thirty Bills), is it no different from other establishments (ie, no shoes, no shirt, no service). Granted different standards, but standards nonetheless elected by the proprietor?
So it is, for healthcare, to serve everyone regardless. I was just wondering about the ethics of that. I agree it should be up to the proprietor of a business who he/she serves, as they'll just eat the business they lose when they discriminate who they serve. They also will probably get a bad reputation, leading to more lost business... It's just a no-brainer to not discriminate if you want success in business...
It's a silly law, people should be allowed to turn away who they like, for whatever reasons.
I mean,It's not the right thing to do, but we can't truly solve 'hate' with laws.
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It's one of the things I love about this country - we're free to succeed, and free to fail.
Neither should be hindered
not sure if this is sarcasm ... if not - i would respond by saying ... laws are in place for a reason ... in lieu of societal indifference and apathy - laws sometimes enforce an ideal by which we should strive ...
" laws sometimes enforce an ideal by which we should strive", I agree with that.
But ultimately, we want society motivated by means other than because the law says so. Don't get me wrong... we most certainly need laws to establish and support baseline behaviour, but more importantly, we need to live by higher standards that reflect advancement.
This brings me back to my previous post when I suggested that society's response aside from the law would likely have much more of an effect curbing undesirable behaviour. It would be a pretty clear message if the doors to the bakery weren't opened by customers given the fact the proprietor was exposed as an intolerant.
Members of society have much more control than they think they do. If the baker's actions were offensive to one's sense of decency... then one should abstain from frequenting the business to show their displeasure- even if it means going an extra couple of miles to the next baker.
Very well said,
I agree. A person should be able to be as stupid as they want.
On the flip side, the people affected by it can be as vocal as they want. Put the guy out of business.
Why would you want someone forced to sell you food even though they don't want to?....seems like a recipe for disaster (you see what I did there)
What an asshole the baker is...I can't imagine being discriminated against like that and what that must feel like...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
ya ... i mean like i said earlier in the thread - part of me admires him ... and in a way - boycotting his store is a measure of intolerance as well ...
but the laws are put in place for a reason as a wedding cake can be substituted i would think (especially in a market like portland) but what if a married lesbian couple's car breaks down and they take it to a mechanic who won't work in it ... there's just so many examples where if left to society to address may cause indirect consequences that are much more severe than a wedding cake ...
Right on,
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interesting thought.
makes one think about what it means to be tolerant
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan