Electric cars head toward another dead end

24

Comments

  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Idris wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmxUsGiGp3w

    :D

    (It get's into the prius mid way)
    -

    That was great ... amazing ... when the environment is talked about people tend to ignore the process that goes into just making the battery ...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Idris wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmxUsGiGp3w

    :D

    (It get's into the prius mid way)
    -
    I like what he says at the end, "Change your driving style". They might have added to that, "Drive less often, walk or bicycle or use public transit when ever possible, and ride share."

    Before we get too critical about the Prius battery though, think about what's in the computer sitting in front of you. Also keep in mind that a well cared for Prius driven reasonably should last at least 20 or 30 years/ 300,000 miles or more and over its lifetime should average 45 MPG, not 17 point something.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    A 903 horsepower hybrid .... the McLaren P1 :shock:

    http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/mclaren-p1-supercar-903-hp-plug-hybrid-153640689.html

    This may sway me to be a hippi. Anyone want to buy me one?

    :P
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Jason P wrote:
    A 903 horsepower hybrid .... the McLaren P1 :shock:

    http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/mclaren-p1-supercar-903-hp-plug-hybrid-153640689.html

    This may sway me to be a hippi. Anyone want to buy me one?

    :P

    Looking at the schematic, I can't help but wonder if the window price sticker will read:

    Basic car....$24,500
    Radio/CD player $250.00
    Battery: $35,250.00
    Net before tax and licensing: $60,000.00
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    Jason P wrote:
    A 903 horsepower hybrid .... the McLaren P1 :shock:

    http://autos.yahoo.com/blogs/motoramic/mclaren-p1-supercar-903-hp-plug-hybrid-153640689.html

    This may sway me to be a hippi. Anyone want to buy me one?

    :P

    The next generation Enzo and Carrera GT are also hybrids. We are in the age of the hybrid hypercar :D

    http://www.gizmag.com/porsche-hybrid-918-spyder-770-hp/22551/

    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130218/GENEVA/130219825
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    Idris wrote:
    The next generation Enzo and Carrera GT are also hybrids. We are in the age of the hybrid hypercar :D

    http://www.gizmag.com/porsche-hybrid-918-spyder-770-hp/22551/

    http://www.autoweek.com/article/20130218/GENEVA/130219825
    The Porsche looks sweet! :shock:
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    hedonist wrote:
    Aren't the Teslas something like $100K? How long would it take for "savings" to kick in?

    Crazy.

    there are cars for less than half that but they are definitely targeting the luxury market right now ... i'm guessing someone who could afford a tesla is not necessarily going to buy one to save money per se ... it's more the environmental benefit ...
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Idris wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmxUsGiGp3w

    :D

    (It get's into the prius mid way)
    -

    uhhh ... a prius driving at full speed is just a corolla driving a full speed ... :fp: ... this is where the lack of critical thinking kicks in again ... of course a car with a bigger engine is gonna be more efficient at those speeds ... try stop and go commuter traffic ...
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    polaris_x wrote:
    Idris wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmxUsGiGp3w

    :D

    (It get's into the prius mid way)
    -

    uhhh ... a prius driving at full speed is just a corolla driving a full speed ... :fp: ... this is where the lack of critical thinking kicks in again ... of course a car with a bigger engine is gonna be more efficient at those speeds ... try stop and go commuter traffic ...

    Yeah- it's really too bad. This video makes some good points, but then goes to great lengths to dismiss something that has good potential while smugly suggesting high performance cars (one's that most of us could never afford in the first place) are a better choice.

    It's true-- the "ecological footprint" (yet another good term that's been abused and disenfranchised) of a Prius is big- especially its battery. That could and should be remedied- there's no reason for its manufacture to "chug" (I believe was the tern used) all around the world. Rare earths mines are already in place and abandoned (without having been returned to a natural state) right here in California. The process could all be done in one region. Outsourcing of jobs to save a few bucks is also a bad idea. Guess who pockets those extra dollars?

    The MPG race involving the Prius is totally misleading. Of course the MPGs will be low at top speed. The same is true when driving up a steep hill. But come one, I never wake up and think, "Gee, I think I'll go out and drive up steep hill or open the throttle all the way all day!" :P

    What are these arrogant bastards trying to prove anyway?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    brianlux wrote:
    What are these arrogant bastards trying to prove anyway?

    they are like shock jock dj's ... they get a kick out of showing how ignorant they are ... let's face it ... if you are car lover ... who wants to consider the planet!? ... you want fast ... anyone else is just a hippie treehugger trying to impede your freedom to burn gas ... the sad part is how people will take this stuff and then go spew how prius's aren't fuel efficient ... :fp:
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    charging stations multiplying ...

    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/charging ... 00963.html

    way easier to set up a charging station infrastructure than hydrogen
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    polaris_x wrote:
    Idris wrote:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmxUsGiGp3w

    :D

    (It get's into the prius mid way)
    -

    uhhh ... a prius driving at full speed is just a corolla driving a full speed ... :fp: ... this is where the lack of critical thinking kicks in again ... of course a car with a bigger engine is gonna be more efficient at those speeds ... try stop and go commuter traffic ...

    Then it does make me wonder if you buy a prius or one of these electric cars because it saves you so much on your commute to work in stop and go traffic ... and if you live in a place like this and your so concerned about the planet, why not walk, ride your bike or take public transit? It would not benefit me considering my daily commute is all highway.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    polaris_x wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    What are these arrogant bastards trying to prove anyway?

    they are like shock jock dj's ... they get a kick out of showing how ignorant they are ... let's face it ... if you are car lover ... who wants to consider the planet!? ... you want fast ... anyone else is just a hippie treehugger trying to impede your freedom to burn gas ... the sad part is how people will take this stuff and then go spew how prius's aren't fuel efficient ... :fp:
    Why is it either/or? You yourself said someone who could afford the Tesla (must love cars) would buy it for the environmental benefit.

    I'm a proud fast car lover. My guy has a fuel-inefficient Camaro but commutes five or six miles a day.

    How shall we judge him :think:
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    hedonist wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    What are these arrogant bastards trying to prove anyway?

    they are like shock jock dj's ... they get a kick out of showing how ignorant they are ... let's face it ... if you are car lover ... who wants to consider the planet!? ... you want fast ... anyone else is just a hippie treehugger trying to impede your freedom to burn gas ... the sad part is how people will take this stuff and then go spew how prius's aren't fuel efficient ... :fp:
    Why is it either/or? You yourself said someone who could afford the Tesla (must love cars) would buy it for the environmental benefit.

    I'm a proud fast car lover. My guy has a fuel-inefficient Camaro but commutes five or six miles a day.

    How shall we judge him :think:

    I love good American Muscle Cars ... especially the older muscle cars.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I love good American Muscle Cars ... especially the older muscle cars.
    :thumbup:
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    lukin2006 wrote:

    Then it does make me wonder if you buy a prius or one of these electric cars because it saves you so much on your commute to work in stop and go traffic ... and if you live in a place like this and your so concerned about the planet, why not walk, ride your bike or take public transit? It would not benefit me considering my daily commute is all highway.

    This is something I've mentioned in numerous posts. I've always said, when ever possible, walk, ride a bike, take public transit or ride share. I do all of those and when I have to drive, I feel good about driving a Prius.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    hedonist wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I love good American Muscle Cars ... especially the older muscle cars.
    :thumbup:

    I did too... once upon a time. Even had one one- a 1965 Chevy Malibu. I just watched "Two Lane Blacktop" from 1971 starring James Taylor and Dennis Wilson. A weird nostalgic trip. And that what muscle cars should be- purely nostalgia. They belong in museums, not on the road.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    brianlux wrote:
    hedonist wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:
    I love good American Muscle Cars ... especially the older muscle cars.
    :thumbup:

    And that what muscle cars should be- purely nostalgia. They belong in museums, not on the road.
    We're gonna have to agree to disagree on this one, sir.

    (I'm also thankful you're not the automotive czar)
    :mrgreen:
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    brianlux wrote:
    lukin2006 wrote:

    Then it does make me wonder if you buy a prius or one of these electric cars because it saves you so much on your commute to work in stop and go traffic ... and if you live in a place like this and your so concerned about the planet, why not walk, ride your bike or take public transit? It would not benefit me considering my daily commute is all highway.

    This is something I've mentioned in numerous posts. I've always said, when ever possible, walk, ride a bike, take public transit or ride share. I do all of those and when I have to drive, I feel good about driving a Prius.

    I agree you have stated that ...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    I don't think Polaris and myself are going to agree on this anytime soon. I remember a few other threads about hybrids and they all went in the same direction as this one.

    I hate the Prius! :D
    -

    I mean remember when they came out, many people went on about how amazing that car is, acting like baby dolphins are released from the exhausts along with some special 'green' formula that's helping to heal the planet or something.

    When in reality, the Prius is one of the Dirtiest cars to manufacture and the build quality on the first gen Prius was low.

    Also a diesel car get's as much and often times more MPG than these hybrids anyway, so if it's really fuel efficiency we want, well let's go that way.

    Of course it's not just MPG, or how the cars built etc, it's a whole group of specific issues that need to be addressed and balanced.

    Also I enjoy the internal combustion engine and don't want to see that build go away replaced with just an electric motor.

    I fully support a move towards hydrogen, Check out what BMW is doing with them, they are making a car that drives like a real car should drive, along with being 'clean'.

    http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/cleanenergy/phase_2/cleanenergy.html

    also check this out,

    Toyota, BMW to research lithium-air battery

    http://news.yahoo.com/toyota-bmw-research-lithium-air-battery-131434382--finance.html;_ylt=A2KJ2UaXWyZRqGsASDXQtDMD
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Despite our differing opinions I hope we can all agree on one thing- that we would do well for ourselves and the planet we live on to lower carbon emissions, move toward cleaner air and reduce our impact on climate change. Whatever it takes to get there, to me, those seem like reasonable and wise goals.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    brianlux wrote:
    Despite our differing opinions I hope we can all agree on one thing- that we would do well for ourselves and the planet we live on to lower carbon emissions, move toward cleaner air and reduce our impact on climate change. Whatever it takes to get there, to me, those seem like reasonable and wise goals.

    For sure Brian! :)
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    This is a hybrid I like.

    http://www.bmw-i.com/en_ww/bmw-i8/
  • This is the kind of car I'd like to commute with. :D

    http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-v ... er-car.htm
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    lukin2006 wrote:
    Then it does make me wonder if you buy a prius or one of these electric cars because it saves you so much on your commute to work in stop and go traffic ... and if you live in a place like this and your so concerned about the planet, why not walk, ride your bike or take public transit? It would not benefit me considering my daily commute is all highway.

    i would say it's not very common for someone to have a commute that is all highway ... even so ... an electric car would definitely benefit the planet ... a hybrid like the prius would also help just so long as you don't want to drive it 140 km/h ...

    as for people who own prius's and why they don't take transit ... i think that's another one of those questions that really has no relevance ... just because someone is concerned about the planet and makes consumer choices to reflect that doesn't mean they are perfect ... either way - who knows what the circumstances are to make someone drive and not the other ...

    i own a car but i ride a bike to work ... transit when the weather sucks ... are my concerns about the planet no longer valid?
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Idris wrote:
    I don't think Polaris and myself are going to agree on this anytime soon. I remember a few other threads about hybrids and they all went in the same direction as this one.

    I hate the Prius! :D
    -

    I mean remember when they came out, many people went on about how amazing that car is, acting like baby dolphins are released from the exhausts along with some special 'green' formula that's helping to heal the planet or something.

    When in reality, the Prius is one of the Dirtiest cars to manufacture and the build quality on the first gen Prius was low.

    Also a diesel car get's as much and often times more MPG than these hybrids anyway, so if it's really fuel efficiency we want, well let's go that way.

    Of course it's not just MPG, or how the cars built etc, it's a whole group of specific issues that need to be addressed and balanced.

    Also I enjoy the internal combustion engine and don't want to see that build go away replaced with just an electric motor.

    I fully support a move towards hydrogen, Check out what BMW is doing with them, they are making a car that drives like a real car should drive, along with being 'clean'.

    http://www.bmw.com/com/en/insights/technology/cleanenergy/phase_2/cleanenergy.html

    also check this out,

    Toyota, BMW to research lithium-air battery

    http://news.yahoo.com/toyota-bmw-research-lithium-air-battery-131434382--finance.html;_ylt=A2KJ2UaXWyZRqGsASDXQtDMD

    no ... we're not gonna agree!! ... :lol:

    are you telling me you have no interest in the tesla roadster!? ... the internal combustion engine is obsolete ... what is it that you like? ... the noise it makes ... the inefficiency? ...

    you are right that as far as how "green" a product is does require us to evaluate it holistically and not just on one or two things ...

    any way you cut it ... if one must drive ... the electric car is and will be the "greenest" option for the foreseeable future ...
  • The internal combustion engine is obsolete? That is a complete fallacy. I think you may be exaggerating.

    I do believe that electric cars are super cool though. The Tesla, Finsker, and even the Volt are all legit.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    whgarrett wrote:
    The internal combustion engine is obsolete? That is a complete fallacy. I think you may be exaggerating.

    I do believe that electric cars are super cool though. The Tesla, Finsker, and even the Volt are all legit.

    they are ... obviously not obsolete in use as we have been convinced by auto plants that are built on a financial model of a new car every few years plus requisite parts ... and obviously big oil who wants us to continue to use an inefficient form of energy use ... but definitely obsolete in terms of technology ... why are all new golf carts electric? ... lawn mowers ... pretty much nothing new really uses a combustion engine ...
  • I'm not buying it. My understanding of the word obsolete must differ from yours.

    How long does an electric car last?
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Webster defines obsolete as: "No longer produced or used; out of date." So, strictly speaking, the internal combustion engine is not obsolete.

    On the other hand, some of the synonyms listed include: antiquated - out-of-date - outdated - old-fashioned. I would say any of those should apple to the internal combustion engine. If you think about how much change there has been in most technologies over the last several decades, the internal combustion engine is long overdue to be classified as obsolete.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













Sign In or Register to comment.