The Government is NOT going to TAKE PEOPLES GUNS!

whgarrett

I do not interpret that as meaning only a militia can own weapons. To me it is saying that a militia is important to the security of a free state.

And those who wrote the 2nd would think it preposterous to speak of rifle bans rather than handguns. Handguns are worthless in combat.

JimmyV

I've said this before and I'll say it again: The most powerful weapon the founding fathers could imagine was a cannon. Not a musket and not something smaller. There is not a chance in hell that any one of them would have sat idly by if the masses started buying cannons and putting them in their front yards. Not a chance. The right to bear arms was important, yes, but even when that right was put to paper there were limits. That the meaning of their words is twisted so that people today can play with assault weapons like they are toys is a real shame.

whgarrett

How many people died last year from "assault" weapons?

Why are you so afraid of them?

JimmyV

whgarrett wrote:

How many people died last year from "assault" weapons?

Why are you so afraid of them?

How many were killed by them in Newtown?

I am scared of them because they serve no other purpose than to kill human beings. Handguns, as dangerous as they are and as abused as they are, do serve another purpose. I think keeping a handgun in your home for defense is in keeping with the spirit of the second amendment. I don't believe the same can be said for an assault rifle.

Cosmo

whgarrett wrote:

I do not interpret that as meaning only a militia can own weapons. To me it is saying that a militia is important to the security of a free state.

And those who wrote the 2nd would think it preposterous to speak of rifle bans rather than handguns. Handguns are worthless in combat.

...
A 'Well-Regulated militia' was originally drafted because the early states needed to cobble a regular army in case it was needed. Those soldiers were farmers and regular people who needed to be well-regulated... or trainned in military tactics. It does not mean a standing armiy, such as the one we have today. and it certainly does not mean the militia that Timothy McVeigh adhered to. Simply, people... citizens who were trained to defend the land of theirs and their neighbors from standing armies in other parts of the world... in 1779.
...
That being said... WHO... are you defending your home and family from? The L.A. Street gangs thatwear red or blue? The other armed gangs that wear black or brown? The other gang that wears multicam or digital Marpat? Who?

Bentleyspop

Cosmo wrote:

whgarrett wrote:

I do not interpret that as meaning only a militia can own weapons. To me it is saying that a militia is important to the security of a free state.

And those who wrote the 2nd would think it preposterous to speak of rifle bans rather than handguns. Handguns are worthless in combat.

...
A 'Well-Regulated militia' was originally drafted because the early states needed to cobble a regular army in case it was needed. Those soldiers were farmers and regular people who needed to be well-regulated... or trainned in military tactics. It does not mean a standing armiy, such as the one we have today. and it certainly does not mean the militia that Timothy McVeigh adhered to. Simply, people... citizens who were trained to defend the land of theirs and their neighbors from standing armies in other parts of the world... in 1779.
...
That being said... WHO... are you defending your home and family from? The L.A. Street gangs thatwear red or blue? The other armed gangs that wear black or brown? The other gang that wears multicam ot digital Marpat? Who?

The gang in the Blue Helmets that your Socialist Kenyan Muslim president is going to bring in to take away all our guns!! :shock:

aerial

A few people go wacko......out of the millions of people that own guns and everyone gets Paranoid?
the media feeds you and you do exactly what they want you to do by giving up your rights. We can't protect ourselves against tyranny with a hand gun...

Cosmo

aerial wrote:

A few people go wacko......out of the millions of people that own guns and everyone gets Paranoid?
the media feeds you and you do exactly what they want you to do by giving up your rights. We can't protect ourselves against tyranny with a hand gun...

...
Think about it.. in realistic terms...
This 'tyranny' you are so afraid of... when they come after you, what are they going to be armed with? What are you going to arm yourself with, in order to 'defeat' them?
As an example: They took out your Jesus of Waco with an armored personel carrier... that never fired its main weapon. And your Jesus Koresh had 2... yes, 2 .50 caliber machine guns. Do you know what a .50 caliber machine gun is?
Here is what one looks like:


This is what they shoot:


And your hero had 2 of those fuckers... and the tyranny stomped them like roaches.

What is this 'tyranny' going to do to you and your pathetic little AR-15?

Cosmo

Also... the most moronic thing in opposition to gun control is trying to bring up Hitler and the Nazis.
There is this idiotic arguement that if the Jews in Germany were armed... things might not have ended up the way they did.
...
Do the people know who the Nazis were?
It took the United States, England, Russia and basically, the rest of the world (except Italy and Japan)... 4 years and tanks and B-17s and P-47s and P-51s and hundreds of thousands of soldiers and the Russian Winter to defeat them.
The Jewish professor with a .38 revolver wasn't going to stop them... unless he was armed with a U.S., British, Russian and rest of the world army in his home.

aerial

Cosmo wrote:

aerial wrote:

A few people go wacko......out of the millions of people that own guns and everyone gets Paranoid?
the media feeds you and you do exactly what they want you to do by giving up your rights. We can't protect ourselves against tyranny with a hand gun...

...
Think about it.. in realistic terms...
This 'tyranny' you are so afraid of... when they come after you, what are they going to be armed with? What are you going to arm yourself with, in order to 'defeat' them?
They took out your Jesus of Waco with an armored personel carrier... that never fired its main weapon. And your Jesus Koresh had 2... yes, 2 .50 caliber machine guns. Do you know what a .50 caliber machine gun is?
Here is what one looks like:


This is what they shoot:


And your hero had 2 of those fuckers... and the tyranny stomped them like roaches.

What is this 'tyranny' going to do to you and your pathetic little AR-15?

They are NOT my hero....where do you get that from?


he methodology of tyranny

The methods used to overthrow a constitutional order and establish a tyranny are well-known. However, despite this awareness, it is surprising how those who have no intention of perpetrating a tyranny can slip into these methods and bring about a tyranny despite their best intentions. Tyranny does not have to be deliberate. Tyrants can fool themselves as thoroughly as they fool everyone else.

Control of public information and opinion
It begins with withholding information, and leads to putting out false or misleading information. A government can develop ministries of propaganda under many guises. They typically call it "public information" or "marketing".
Vote fraud used to prevent the election of reformers
It doesn't matter which of the two major party candidates are elected if no real reformer can get nominated, and when news services start knowing the outcomes of elections before it is possible for them to know, then the votes are not being honestly counted.
Undue official influence on trials and juries
Nonrandom selection of jury panels, exclusion of those opposed to the law, exclusion of the jury from hearing argument on the law, exclusion of private prosecutors from access to the grand jury, and prevention of parties and their counsels from making effective arguments or challenging the government.
Usurpation of undelegated powers
This is usually done with popular support for solving some problem, or to redistribute wealth to the advantage of the supporters of the dominant faction, but it soon leads to the deprivation of rights of minorities and individuals.
Seeking a government monopoly on the capability and use of armed force
The first signs are efforts to register or restrict the possession and use of firearms, initially under the guise of "protecting" the public, which, when it actually results in increased crime, provides a basis for further disarmament efforts affecting more people and more weapons.
Militarization of law enforcement
Declaring a "war on crime" that becomes a war on civil liberties. Preparation of military forces for internal policing duties.
Infiltration and subversion of citizen groups that could be forces for reform
Internal spying and surveillance is the beginning. A sign is false prosecutions of their leaders.
Suppression of investigators and whistleblowers
When people who try to uncover high level wrongdoing are threatened, that is a sign the system is not only riddled with corruption, but that the corruption has passed the threshold into active tyranny.
Use of the law for competition suppression
It begins with the dominant faction winning support by paying off their supporters and suppressing their supporters' competitors, but leads to public officials themselves engaging in illegal activities and using the law to suppress independent competitors. A good example of this is narcotics trafficking.
Subversion of internal checks and balances
This involves the appointment to key positions of persons who can be controlled by their sponsors, and who are then induced to do illegal things. The worst way in which this occurs is in the appointment of judges that will go along with unconstitutional acts by the other branches.
Creation of a class of officials who are above the law
This is indicated by dismissal of charges for wrongdoing against persons who are "following orders".
Increasing dependency of the people on government
The classic approach to domination of the people is to first take everything they have away from them, then make them compliant with the demands of the rulers to get anything back again.
Increasing public ignorance of their civic duties and reluctance to perform them
When the people avoid doing things like voting and serving in militias and juries, tyranny is not far behind.
Use of staged events to produce popular support
Acts of terrorism, blamed on political opponents, followed immediately with well-prepared proposals for increased powers and budgets for suppressive agencies. Sometimes called a Reichstag plot.
Conversion of rights into privileges
Requiring licenses and permits for doing things that the government does not have the delegated power to restrict, except by due process in which the burden of proof is on the petitioner.
Political correctness
Many if not most people are susceptible to being recruited to engage in repressive actions against disfavored views or behaviors, and led to pave the way for the dominance of tyrannical government.
Avoiding tyranny

The key is always to detect tendencies toward tyranny and suppress them before they go too far or become too firmly established. The people must never acquiesce in any violation of the Constitution. Failure to take corrective action early will only mean that more severe measures will have to be taken later, perhaps with the loss of life and the disruption of the society in ways from which recovery may take centuries.
http://constitution.org/tyr/prin_tyr.htm

Americans will have to fight AGAIN for our freedom...the freedom our fathers, sons, mothers, great Grandfathers fought for. Bravery will have to make a come back and good people will die. Those that are cowards will side with the enemy but they will also die by the psycho that tries to rule this country and the world.......

whgarrett

Do we know what a 50cal is? I got 2 man. U forget who you talking to? The resistance is alive and well.

Cosmo

aerial wrote:

The key is always to detect tendencies toward tyranny and suppress them before they go too far or become too firmly established. The people must never acquiesce in any violation of the Constitution. Failure to take corrective action early will only mean that more severe measures will have to be taken later, perhaps with the loss of life and the disruption of the society in ways from which recovery may take centuries.
http://constitution.org/tyr/prin_tyr.htm

Americans will have to fight AGAIN for our freedom...the freedom our fathers, sons, mothers, great Grandfathers fought for. Bravery will have to make a come back and good people will die. Those that are cowards will side with the enemy but they will also die by the psycho that tries to rule this country and the world.......

...
Okay. Tell you what. YOU take up arms against this 'tyranny', teach your kids to fire your AR-15 and barricade yourself in your home, shooting at the Police and Sheriffs with your small arms fire. The rest of us will watch as your home goes up in flames from the tear gas cannister and your failure to adequately secure a fire suppression system. We will later find out how you shot your kids in the head before taking your own life.
And we'll all sit around the next day and talk about that psycho, anti-government, gun nut that killed his own kids.
...
P.S. Those "cowards will side with the enemy"? They are called 'Cops' and 'Army soldiers' and 'Marines' and 'Air Force pilots'.

Cosmo

whgarrett wrote:

Do we know what a 50cal is? I got 2 man. U forget who you talking to? The resistance is alive and well.

...
Well... from everything I see... the resistance isn't doing shit except talking about how everyone else 'should rise up and fight'.
...
Also... you have the same number of M2s as the Branch Davidians did in Waco. I hope your fate is not going to be the same as theirs.
Hint: When they tell you to, "Come out with your hands up"... come out with your hands up. It'll be a better ending.

brianlux

whgarrett wrote:

Do we know what a 50cal is? I got 2 man. U forget who you talking to? The resistance is alive and well.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Sincerely,

The Borg

whgarrett

Cosmo....ye of little faith

Thirty Bills Unpaid

whgarrett wrote:

My view is so different then yours. I think that carrying a side arm into the woods(nature) is ridiculous, unless you are taking it for protection from people.

Why do you want to ban something that has the ability to kill many people but relatively kills only a few, instead of going after the guns that kill 75% or more of the fatalities?

Do you even care about the dying?

You should know my response.....I don't.

You've obviously never hunted in deeper Canadian forests where there are several occasions to feel a measure of relief that you carry an additional weapon. Cougar and bear attacks are rare, but nonetheless... it's a precaution against a predatory animal. A 'tool' in the true sense of the word.

Your idea of a weapon is to use it against people: government, robbers, and other 'bad' guys. Canadians don't have that view- we have a better perspective for what a gun is best used for. Sorry- I'm not sure how else to explain it.

And what kind of question is 'do you even care about the dying'? Why the fuk do you think I encourage your country to get your gun problem under control?

As for your response to your own question... let's just say the pro gun crowd loses much credibility on this forum with such nonsense.

JimmyV

aerial wrote:

A few people go wacko......out of the millions of people that own guns and everyone gets Paranoid?
the media feeds you and you do exactly what they want you to do by giving up your rights. We can't protect ourselves against tyranny with a hand gun...

This...

whgarrett wrote:

Do we know what a 50cal is? I got 2 man. U forget who you talking to? The resistance is alive and well.

...scares me much more than rhetorical tyranny does.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JimmyV wrote:

aerial wrote:

A few people go wacko......out of the millions of people that own guns and everyone gets Paranoid?
the media feeds you and you do exactly what they want you to do by giving up your rights. We can't protect ourselves against tyranny with a hand gun...

This...

whgarrett wrote:

Do we know what a 50cal is? I got 2 man. U forget who you talking to? The resistance is alive and well.

...scares me much more than rhetorical tyranny does.

A 'fresh' perspective.

What's more 'real': a crazed government looking to enslave all its citizens... or a nutjob opening fire on a bunch of civilians in the public setting with a wicked weapon?

pj1981

Enslave :? which came first the slave or the owner?

Governments control people, they are supposed to represent but it is changing.
Uncontrolled people are a threat.
They control in what ever way they have to. If citizens get pissed at the government
and how they are trying to control or what their intentions are,
the government will have to take action against that.

Passing laws to control makes it easy to confine those citizens willing to take a stand against.
Using force against those willing to fight is a real possibility.

The masses though, most are docile sheep, unaware freedoms are lost or just don't care.
We got lots just being cared for. Enough money for food, cable TV(owned by the government) and a roof...
the new American dream of the next century.
I new breed of slave one dependent on the government. I'd rather loose my life fighting that cause that's not living.

gimmesometruth27

you guys are so cute talking about how you are going to defend yourselves against the big bad government who is coming to take away your guns and your freedom..

just know that you all are committing sedition by threatening the government...

good luck in court.