I appreciate that Hugh and others care enough to learn more about this subject. At the same time, the oft heard analogy that this is a bit like saying we still need more proof that the world is or isn't flat fits. Without meaning to sound arrogant or critical toward anyone here, I think it's time we move on from discussing the reality of anthropogenic climate change and start working on doing what we can to lessen our impact which is causing it. Otherwise we are just twirling in circles.
wrong approach. if it was time to move on from the discussion, then why does most of the population not give a fuck about climate change? because they don't fully understand it or buy into it or care about it.
I mean, I care about the environment, and that wasn't because of my concerns over climate change. I'm just disgusted with the trash heap that our home has become. maybe if people would engage those that are interested in learning more about how it's caused, what the effects will be, and what they can do, instead of dismissing them as uneducated idiots, the cause might get farther than it is.
YOU are certainly not an uneducated idiot, Hugh!
The problem, as I see it is not that the information on climate change isn't out there- it is in great abundance. The problem is that many people do not care about pertinent information in general and that many of those who do continue to look for information in places that are not dependable- like abc/cbs/nbc and popular magazines and such. This endless spin of disinformation is keeping us locked up and immobilized. For the most case, I think most of us here on AMT are aware of the climate change situation enough to move on from that discussion toward doing something about the problem.
If we were in a car heading toward a brick wall and we had 30 seconds to either apply the brakes or continue a discussion about whether or not some or all of us will survive the impact or whether or not the wall only looks like brick and might just be cardboard would be keep talking or hit the brakes?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
Here's what the President had to say about climate change today:
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I agree with Polaris; Hugh, we've been discussing climate change on here for YEARS. All of a sudden, you ask for an education on here rather than defending a side, which is great, but you must understand the level of frustration Polaris and Brian may have since they have constantly been championing every environmental thread on here for a long time. It is a lot of work to actually educate someone about the perils of the environment, and you have to understand that it can't be taught simply in a few paragraphs. The best thing to do is to research the topic using reliable scientific sources. I think that's a very fair thing to tell someone eager to learn more.
wow. just wow. well I'm sorry to come to the climate party uninvited, since I clearly haven't gathered enough climate thread points to ask any questions.
It is just unfathomable to me that people who champion a cause choose to ridicule someone who asks questions and is eager to learn about it. when Brian finally gave me a synopsis in the other thread that showed me that some of my questions were flawed, I thanked him for the info.
I'm not looking for the whole goddamn history of the topic. Just somewhere to start. And when someone REFUSES to because she has "done all the work", fuck that. I'm not asking you to help me cheat on a fucking exam.
If any of you people have ever asked a question of someone who has "all the answers" and "did all their own homework" and doesn't want to share their intimate knowledge like some spoiled child, well I hope they bit your fucking head off too.
there is something fucking bizarro about this place today. fuck this. I'm done.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
You cannot call yourself educated in the field of environmental science and still champion the idea that the human race has the ability to not run itself off this planet. It's like that bumper sticker.....only after, will we truly realize.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,754
You cannot call yourself educated in the field of environmental science and still champion the idea that the human race has the ability to not run itself off this planet. It's like that bumper sticker.....only after, will we truly realize.
"Bumper stickers are for the symbol minded."
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I thought the purpose of AMT was to discuss and educate ourselves. I'm sorry I didn't prepare enough before I came to class, professor.
get out of your tower for fuck's sake. I asked some questions, posed some queries, and I get screamed at. finally I get the answers I was looking for, and I'm now being called lazy and full of shit.
next time you have a question you don't already know the answer to, don't come to me.
see you around.
listen ... consider dropping the anger down a bit ... why are you taking this discussion so personally!? ... asking someone to educate themselves on a topic is that offensive to you?? ... really? ... if so, i apologize ... i tried to give you my perspective on that ... if that's not good enough - again, i'm sorry ... if i/we are expected to continually be frustrated by people posting the same irrelevant points - i really don't think its unfair to ask people to go and read ...
this thread is for discussion but if you take a post asking you to educate yourself personally - well, my humble advice is simply to not ... taking anything on the AMT personally is not good ...
seriously, try and consider not inferring tone on the internet ... no one was ever yelling ... and no one was being intentionally condescending ...
The beer stores here in Ontario used to put out a guide to fishing for all of the "fresh" water lakes in the province. I used to grab one every year and watch as the amount of fish from each lake rise with the "DO NOT EAT" warning. Hmmmm fresh water, way up north and toxins fill the fish. Please somebody tell me this is not climate change with a straight face. And for those that think they can, I'll answer that now. Yeah, right!
Don't mistake climate change with the fact that I live in Ontario and haven't had to shovel snow more than three times in the last five years.
How is filling up fresh water lakes with toxins the same as climate change? :?
That's the problem. You guys all think everyone's arguing AGAINST cleaning up the environment.
If I was a fish, I would say that my climate IS the water. Get it?!
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
I agree with Polaris; Hugh, we've been discussing climate change on here for YEARS. All of a sudden, you ask for an education on here rather than defending a side, which is great, but you must understand the level of frustration Polaris and Brian may have since they have constantly been championing every environmental thread on here for a long time. It is a lot of work to actually educate someone about the perils of the environment, and you have to understand that it can't be taught simply in a few paragraphs. The best thing to do is to research the topic using reliable scientific sources. I think that's a very fair thing to tell someone eager to learn more.
wow. just wow. well I'm sorry to come to the climate party uninvited, since I clearly haven't gathered enough climate thread points to ask any questions.
It is just unfathomable to me that people who champion a cause choose to ridicule someone who asks questions and is eager to learn about it. when Brian finally gave me a synopsis in the other thread that showed me that some of my questions were flawed, I thanked him for the info.
I'm not looking for the whole goddamn history of the topic. Just somewhere to start. And when someone REFUSES to because she has "done all the work", fuck that. I'm not asking you to help me cheat on a fucking exam.
If any of you people have ever asked a question of someone who has "all the answers" and "did all their own homework" and doesn't want to share their intimate knowledge like some spoiled child, well I hope they bit your fucking head off too.
there is something fucking bizarro about this place today. fuck this. I'm done.
Are you serious?! There is no ridicule going on, you are taking things the wrong way Hugh. All I said is that these 2 people, Polaris and Brian, have been tirelessly been championing the topic for a long time now, so I can imagine their frustration when someone suddenly wants to learn, when they've been talking about it for eons. Have you done a search on AMT for past threads?
I'm sorry you took what I said personally and the wrong way, but I still don't see why you wouldn't want to look around for more info on the topic. :?
data from EIA 2008 (most recent I can find off-hand but the numbers haven't changed that much since.)
...And I was wondering if people who dont believe in climate change (by humans), or global warming, if they think we should not have any regulations on emissions such as CO2?
Cities Affect Temperatures for Thousands of Miles
Jan. 27, 2013 — Even if you live more than 1,000 miles from the nearest large city, it could be affecting your weather.
In a new study that shows the extent to which human activities are influencing the atmosphere, scientists have concluded that the heat generated by everyday activities in metropolitan areas alters the character of the jet stream and other major atmospheric systems. This affects temperatures across thousands of miles, significantly warming some areas and cooling others, according to the study this week in Nature Climate Change.
The extra "waste heat" generated from buildings, cars, and other sources in major Northern Hemisphere urban areas causes winter warming across large areas of northern North America and northern Asia. Temperatures in some remote areas increase by as much as 1 degree Celsius (1.8 degrees Fahrenheit), according to the research by scientists at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography; University of California, San Diego; Florida State University; and the National Center for Atmospheric Research.
At the same time, the changes to atmospheric circulation caused by the waste heat cool areas of Europe by as much as 1 degree C (1.8 degrees F), with much of the temperature decrease occurring in the fall.
The net effect on global mean temperatures is nearly negligible -- an average increase worldwide of just 0.01 degrees C (about 0.02 degrees F). This is because the total human-produced waste heat is only about 0.3 percent of the heat transported across higher latitudes by atmospheric and oceanic circulations.
However, the noticeable impact on regional temperatures may explain why some regions are experiencing more winter warming than projected by climate computer models, the researchers conclude. They suggest that models be adjusted to take the influence of waste heat into account.
"The burning of fossil fuel not only emits greenhouse gases but also directly affects temperatures because of heat that escapes from sources like buildings and cars," says NCAR scientist Aixue Hu, a co-author of the study. "Although much of this waste heat is concentrated in large cities, it can change atmospheric patterns in a way that raises or lowers temperatures across considerable distances."
The researchers stressed that the effect of waste heat is distinct from the so-called urban heat island effect. Such islands are mainly a function of the heat collected and re-radiated by pavement, buildings, and other urban features, whereas the new study examines the heat produced directly through transportation, heating and cooling units, and other activities.
The study, "Energy consumption and the unexplained winter warming over northern Asia and North America," appeared online January 27. It was funded by the National Science Foundation, NCAR's sponsor, as well as the Department of Energy and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
Hu, along with lead author Guang Zhang of Scripps and Ming Cai of Florida State University, analyzed the energy consumption -- from heating buildings to powering vehicles -- that generates waste heat release. The world's total energy consumption in 2006 was equivalent to a constant-use rate of 16 terawatts (1 terawatt, or TW, equals 1 trillion watts). Of that, an average rate of 6.7 TW was consumed in 86 metropolitan areas in the Northern Hemisphere.
Using a computer model of the atmosphere, the authors found that the influence of this waste heat can widen the jet stream.
"What we found is that energy use from multiple urban areas collectively can warm the atmosphere remotely, thousands of miles away from the energy consumption regions," Zhang says. "This is accomplished through atmospheric circulation change."
The release of waste heat is different from energy that is naturally distributed in the atmosphere, the researchers noted. The largest source of heat, solar energy, warms Earth's surface and atmospheric circulations redistribute that energy from one region to another. Human energy consumption distributes energy that had lain dormant and sequestered for millions of years, mostly in the form of oil or coal.
Though the amount of human-generated energy is a small portion of that transported by nature, it is highly concentrated in urban areas. In the Northern Hemisphere, many of those urban areas lie directly under major atmospheric troughs and jet streams.
"The world's most populated and energy-intensive metropolitan areas are along the east and west coasts of the North American and Eurasian continents, underneath the most prominent atmospheric circulation troughs and ridges," Cai says. "The release of this concentrated waste energy causes the noticeable interruption to the normal atmospheric circulation systems above, leading to remote surface temperature changes far away from the regions where waste heat is generated."
Cities Affect Temperatures for Thousands of Miles
Jan. 27, 2013 — Even if you live more than 1,000 miles from the nearest large city, it could be affecting your weather.
In a new study that shows the extent to which human activities are influencing the atmosphere, scientists have concluded that the heat generated by everyday activities in metropolitan areas alters the character of the jet stream and other major atmospheric systems. This affects temperatures across thousands of miles, significantly warming some areas and cooling others, according to the study this week in Nature Climate Change.
The extra "waste heat" generated from buildings, cars, and other sources in major Northern Hemisphere urban areas causes winter warming across large areas of northern North America and northern Asia. Temperatures in some remote areas increase by as much as 1 degree Celsius (1.8 degrees Fahrenheit), according to the research by scientists at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography; University of California, San Diego; Florida State University; and the National Center for Atmospheric Research.
At the same time, the changes to atmospheric circulation caused by the waste heat cool areas of Europe by as much as 1 degree C (1.8 degrees F), with much of the temperature decrease occurring in the fall.
The net effect on global mean temperatures is nearly negligible -- an average increase worldwide of just 0.01 degrees C (about 0.02 degrees F). This is because the total human-produced waste heat is only about 0.3 percent of the heat transported across higher latitudes by atmospheric and oceanic circulations.
However, the noticeable impact on regional temperatures may explain why some regions are experiencing more winter warming than projected by climate computer models, the researchers conclude. They suggest that models be adjusted to take the influence of waste heat into account.
"The burning of fossil fuel not only emits greenhouse gases but also directly affects temperatures because of heat that escapes from sources like buildings and cars," says NCAR scientist Aixue Hu, a co-author of the study. "Although much of this waste heat is concentrated in large cities, it can change atmospheric patterns in a way that raises or lowers temperatures across considerable distances."
The researchers stressed that the effect of waste heat is distinct from the so-called urban heat island effect. Such islands are mainly a function of the heat collected and re-radiated by pavement, buildings, and other urban features, whereas the new study examines the heat produced directly through transportation, heating and cooling units, and other activities.
The study, "Energy consumption and the unexplained winter warming over northern Asia and North America," appeared online January 27. It was funded by the National Science Foundation, NCAR's sponsor, as well as the Department of Energy and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
Hu, along with lead author Guang Zhang of Scripps and Ming Cai of Florida State University, analyzed the energy consumption -- from heating buildings to powering vehicles -- that generates waste heat release. The world's total energy consumption in 2006 was equivalent to a constant-use rate of 16 terawatts (1 terawatt, or TW, equals 1 trillion watts). Of that, an average rate of 6.7 TW was consumed in 86 metropolitan areas in the Northern Hemisphere.
Using a computer model of the atmosphere, the authors found that the influence of this waste heat can widen the jet stream.
"What we found is that energy use from multiple urban areas collectively can warm the atmosphere remotely, thousands of miles away from the energy consumption regions," Zhang says. "This is accomplished through atmospheric circulation change."
The release of waste heat is different from energy that is naturally distributed in the atmosphere, the researchers noted. The largest source of heat, solar energy, warms Earth's surface and atmospheric circulations redistribute that energy from one region to another. Human energy consumption distributes energy that had lain dormant and sequestered for millions of years, mostly in the form of oil or coal.
Though the amount of human-generated energy is a small portion of that transported by nature, it is highly concentrated in urban areas. In the Northern Hemisphere, many of those urban areas lie directly under major atmospheric troughs and jet streams.
"The world's most populated and energy-intensive metropolitan areas are along the east and west coasts of the North American and Eurasian continents, underneath the most prominent atmospheric circulation troughs and ridges," Cai says. "The release of this concentrated waste energy causes the noticeable interruption to the normal atmospheric circulation systems above, leading to remote surface temperature changes far away from the regions where waste heat is generated."
for sure ... it definitely subscribes to the same basic theories ... that artificial manipulation of temperature will alter weather ... it's similar to deforestation ...
I agree with Polaris; Hugh, we've been discussing climate change on here for YEARS. All of a sudden, you ask for an education on here rather than defending a side, which is great, but you must understand the level of frustration Polaris and Brian may have since they have constantly been championing every environmental thread on here for a long time. It is a lot of work to actually educate someone about the perils of the environment, and you have to understand that it can't be taught simply in a few paragraphs. The best thing to do is to research the topic using reliable scientific sources. I think that's a very fair thing to tell someone eager to learn more.
wow. just wow. well I'm sorry to come to the climate party uninvited, since I clearly haven't gathered enough climate thread points to ask any questions.
It is just unfathomable to me that people who champion a cause choose to ridicule someone who asks questions and is eager to learn about it. when Brian finally gave me a synopsis in the other thread that showed me that some of my questions were flawed, I thanked him for the info.
I'm not looking for the whole goddamn history of the topic. Just somewhere to start. And when someone REFUSES to because she has "done all the work", fuck that. I'm not asking you to help me cheat on a fucking exam.
If any of you people have ever asked a question of someone who has "all the answers" and "did all their own homework" and doesn't want to share their intimate knowledge like some spoiled child, well I hope they bit your fucking head off too.
there is something fucking bizarro about this place today. fuck this. I'm done.
Hugh - in case you change your mind and decide to look here again. Try watching this. 15 minute video explaining climate change in plain language. http://www.upworthy.com/the-real-talk-n ... al-warming I think this guy does an excellent job of explaining the issue.
And the sun it may be shining . . . but there's an ocean in my eyes
It gets very frustrating trying to explain that "global warming" doesn't mean "it will be warmer outside."
It can also mean that the odd cold snap in Los Angeles and San Francisco is a result of changing ocean currents caused by lower salinity in the ocean which was caused by melting ice in the polar ice caps which was caused by holes in the ozone which was caused by chlorofluorocarbons.
And it can also mean the freakishly strong blizzards they've been getting on the east coast, the hurricanes, the tornados... It doesn't mean that Toronto will have Miami weather with no bad side.
It also gets frustrating to see people point to single weather events as any kind of evidence of anything.
As the OP reminded us, the records we've kept on the weather and weather events are scientifically meaningless so we have almost nothing to compare to.
But, I don't think we should abuse the environment by any means.
I agree that drawing any kind of conclusion about climate change from one weather event is unwise. What is relevant is the increasing and vast number of unusual climate events. Catefrances has pointed out one of many such events. No doubt, all of us could contribute to a list of such events. It is pretty much common knowledge that these events are increasing and their numbers do not follow climate change events that have occurred in the past. This is evidenced by the rapid nature of these changes and the influence of human activity which is new in terms of planetary events.
yes and i also pointed out how short my countrys recorded history is. i started this thread in jest cause i hate summer. i also have an issue with the term global warming. people use it to freak others out and that pisses me off. we know the earth is warming cause this is part of our planets life cycle. she flows in and out of glacial periods. and guess what people???? shes doing it now. having said that i dont doubt humans have an impact of their environment... afterall we are the great destructors.and yes we should be kinder to our home.. afterall its the only one weve got. but in the end it doesnt matter what we do cause the process is continually in play. we might accelerate it... we might not... either way we cant stop it. we are insignificant. we are not special. we are just a higher order thinking mammal who doesnt always think wisely.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
yes and i also pointed out how short my countrys recorded history is. i started this thread in jest cause i hate summer. i also have an issue with the term global warming. people use it to freak others out and that pisses me off. we know the earth is warming cause this is part of our planets life cycle. she flows in and out of glacial periods. and guess what people???? shes doing it now. having said that i dont doubt humans have an impact of their environment... afterall we are the great destructors.and yes we should be kinder to our home.. afterall its the only one weve got. but in the end it doesnt matter what we do cause the process is continually in play. we might accelerate it... we might not... either way we cant stop it. we are insignificant. we are not special. we are just a higher order thinking mammal who doesnt always think wisely.
i explained how that reasoning is flawed in another thread ... either way - your country is now going through floods in a couple of areas ... the evidence is for everyone to see ...
Hugh - in case you change your mind and decide to look here again. Try watching this. 15 minute video explaining climate change in plain language. http://www.upworthy.com/the-real-talk-n ... al-warming I think this guy does an excellent job of explaining the issue.
australia is a land of extremes. she has always gone through floods. this is nothing new. nor is it extraordinary.
you've had 9 major notable floods in the last 3 years ... you saying that is normal?
define normal? the reason these floods are notable, as you call them, is because of their huge impact on the humans. people lose their houses, their livelihoods and their lives. if this happened in unpopulated areas wed call it a spectacle of Nature, just as we do when lake eyre refloods itself. my country has been occupoied by europeans for just on 225 years. our records arent even that old so what is 'normal' isnt something we can define.
please dont think im negating the impact humans have on the earth cause im not. im just trying to keep it in perspective. our understanding of Earth isnt complete and as ive previously stated global warming is a fact.. i dont deny that. but i also kow that the planets warming is a natural occurrence. how much of a differential in the temperature can humans tolerate? i dont know. what can we do to lessen our impact on the Earth? reduce our use of the natural resources and remember we are a part of Nature.stop raping the Earth. stop thinking he who dies with the most, wins. stop judging a successful life as one which accumulates the most monetary wealth. industrialised societies dont live as a part of Nature and whether one could argue that our behaviour is natural and therefore a part of Nature would be an interesting discussion.. but it doesnt change the fact that humans are their own worst enemy and we are too arrogant to do anything about that unless their is something in it for us. it would appear living more harmoniously with our planet this doing the 'right thing' doesnt count.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Comments
YOU are certainly not an uneducated idiot, Hugh!
The problem, as I see it is not that the information on climate change isn't out there- it is in great abundance. The problem is that many people do not care about pertinent information in general and that many of those who do continue to look for information in places that are not dependable- like abc/cbs/nbc and popular magazines and such. This endless spin of disinformation is keeping us locked up and immobilized. For the most case, I think most of us here on AMT are aware of the climate change situation enough to move on from that discussion toward doing something about the problem.
If we were in a car heading toward a brick wall and we had 30 seconds to either apply the brakes or continue a discussion about whether or not some or all of us will survive the impact or whether or not the wall only looks like brick and might just be cardboard would be keep talking or hit the brakes?
wow. just wow. well I'm sorry to come to the climate party uninvited, since I clearly haven't gathered enough climate thread points to ask any questions.
It is just unfathomable to me that people who champion a cause choose to ridicule someone who asks questions and is eager to learn about it. when Brian finally gave me a synopsis in the other thread that showed me that some of my questions were flawed, I thanked him for the info.
I'm not looking for the whole goddamn history of the topic. Just somewhere to start. And when someone REFUSES to because she has "done all the work", fuck that. I'm not asking you to help me cheat on a fucking exam.
If any of you people have ever asked a question of someone who has "all the answers" and "did all their own homework" and doesn't want to share their intimate knowledge like some spoiled child, well I hope they bit your fucking head off too.
there is something fucking bizarro about this place today. fuck this. I'm done.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
"Bumper stickers are for the symbol minded."
listen ... consider dropping the anger down a bit ... why are you taking this discussion so personally!? ... asking someone to educate themselves on a topic is that offensive to you?? ... really? ... if so, i apologize ... i tried to give you my perspective on that ... if that's not good enough - again, i'm sorry ... if i/we are expected to continually be frustrated by people posting the same irrelevant points - i really don't think its unfair to ask people to go and read ...
this thread is for discussion but if you take a post asking you to educate yourself personally - well, my humble advice is simply to not ... taking anything on the AMT personally is not good ...
seriously, try and consider not inferring tone on the internet ... no one was ever yelling ... and no one was being intentionally condescending ...
If I was a fish, I would say that my climate IS the water. Get it?!
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
Are you serious?! There is no ridicule going on, you are taking things the wrong way Hugh. All I said is that these 2 people, Polaris and Brian, have been tirelessly been championing the topic for a long time now, so I can imagine their frustration when someone suddenly wants to learn, when they've been talking about it for eons. Have you done a search on AMT for past threads?
I'm sorry you took what I said personally and the wrong way, but I still don't see why you wouldn't want to look around for more info on the topic. :?
...And I was wondering if people who dont believe in climate change (by humans), or global warming, if they think we should not have any regulations on emissions such as CO2?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 134210.htm
Cities Affect Temperatures for Thousands of Miles
Jan. 27, 2013 — Even if you live more than 1,000 miles from the nearest large city, it could be affecting your weather.
In a new study that shows the extent to which human activities are influencing the atmosphere, scientists have concluded that the heat generated by everyday activities in metropolitan areas alters the character of the jet stream and other major atmospheric systems. This affects temperatures across thousands of miles, significantly warming some areas and cooling others, according to the study this week in Nature Climate Change.
The extra "waste heat" generated from buildings, cars, and other sources in major Northern Hemisphere urban areas causes winter warming across large areas of northern North America and northern Asia. Temperatures in some remote areas increase by as much as 1 degree Celsius (1.8 degrees Fahrenheit), according to the research by scientists at the Scripps Institution of Oceanography; University of California, San Diego; Florida State University; and the National Center for Atmospheric Research.
At the same time, the changes to atmospheric circulation caused by the waste heat cool areas of Europe by as much as 1 degree C (1.8 degrees F), with much of the temperature decrease occurring in the fall.
The net effect on global mean temperatures is nearly negligible -- an average increase worldwide of just 0.01 degrees C (about 0.02 degrees F). This is because the total human-produced waste heat is only about 0.3 percent of the heat transported across higher latitudes by atmospheric and oceanic circulations.
However, the noticeable impact on regional temperatures may explain why some regions are experiencing more winter warming than projected by climate computer models, the researchers conclude. They suggest that models be adjusted to take the influence of waste heat into account.
"The burning of fossil fuel not only emits greenhouse gases but also directly affects temperatures because of heat that escapes from sources like buildings and cars," says NCAR scientist Aixue Hu, a co-author of the study. "Although much of this waste heat is concentrated in large cities, it can change atmospheric patterns in a way that raises or lowers temperatures across considerable distances."
The researchers stressed that the effect of waste heat is distinct from the so-called urban heat island effect. Such islands are mainly a function of the heat collected and re-radiated by pavement, buildings, and other urban features, whereas the new study examines the heat produced directly through transportation, heating and cooling units, and other activities.
The study, "Energy consumption and the unexplained winter warming over northern Asia and North America," appeared online January 27. It was funded by the National Science Foundation, NCAR's sponsor, as well as the Department of Energy and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.
Hu, along with lead author Guang Zhang of Scripps and Ming Cai of Florida State University, analyzed the energy consumption -- from heating buildings to powering vehicles -- that generates waste heat release. The world's total energy consumption in 2006 was equivalent to a constant-use rate of 16 terawatts (1 terawatt, or TW, equals 1 trillion watts). Of that, an average rate of 6.7 TW was consumed in 86 metropolitan areas in the Northern Hemisphere.
Using a computer model of the atmosphere, the authors found that the influence of this waste heat can widen the jet stream.
"What we found is that energy use from multiple urban areas collectively can warm the atmosphere remotely, thousands of miles away from the energy consumption regions," Zhang says. "This is accomplished through atmospheric circulation change."
The release of waste heat is different from energy that is naturally distributed in the atmosphere, the researchers noted. The largest source of heat, solar energy, warms Earth's surface and atmospheric circulations redistribute that energy from one region to another. Human energy consumption distributes energy that had lain dormant and sequestered for millions of years, mostly in the form of oil or coal.
Though the amount of human-generated energy is a small portion of that transported by nature, it is highly concentrated in urban areas. In the Northern Hemisphere, many of those urban areas lie directly under major atmospheric troughs and jet streams.
"The world's most populated and energy-intensive metropolitan areas are along the east and west coasts of the North American and Eurasian continents, underneath the most prominent atmospheric circulation troughs and ridges," Cai says. "The release of this concentrated waste energy causes the noticeable interruption to the normal atmospheric circulation systems above, leading to remote surface temperature changes far away from the regions where waste heat is generated."
for sure ... it definitely subscribes to the same basic theories ... that artificial manipulation of temperature will alter weather ... it's similar to deforestation ...
got that beat mr T.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
yes and i also pointed out how short my countrys recorded history is. i started this thread in jest cause i hate summer. i also have an issue with the term global warming. people use it to freak others out and that pisses me off. we know the earth is warming cause this is part of our planets life cycle. she flows in and out of glacial periods. and guess what people???? shes doing it now. having said that i dont doubt humans have an impact of their environment... afterall we are the great destructors.and yes we should be kinder to our home.. afterall its the only one weve got. but in the end it doesnt matter what we do cause the process is continually in play. we might accelerate it... we might not... either way we cant stop it. we are insignificant. we are not special. we are just a higher order thinking mammal who doesnt always think wisely.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
i explained how that reasoning is flawed in another thread ... either way - your country is now going through floods in a couple of areas ... the evidence is for everyone to see ...
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
you've had 9 major notable floods in the last 3 years ... you saying that is normal?
this is also a decent explanation
http://www.explainthatstuff.com/globalw ... rkids.html
define normal? the reason these floods are notable, as you call them, is because of their huge impact on the humans. people lose their houses, their livelihoods and their lives. if this happened in unpopulated areas wed call it a spectacle of Nature, just as we do when lake eyre refloods itself. my country has been occupoied by europeans for just on 225 years. our records arent even that old so what is 'normal' isnt something we can define.
please dont think im negating the impact humans have on the earth cause im not. im just trying to keep it in perspective. our understanding of Earth isnt complete and as ive previously stated global warming is a fact.. i dont deny that. but i also kow that the planets warming is a natural occurrence. how much of a differential in the temperature can humans tolerate? i dont know. what can we do to lessen our impact on the Earth? reduce our use of the natural resources and remember we are a part of Nature.stop raping the Earth. stop thinking he who dies with the most, wins. stop judging a successful life as one which accumulates the most monetary wealth. industrialised societies dont live as a part of Nature and whether one could argue that our behaviour is natural and therefore a part of Nature would be an interesting discussion.. but it doesnt change the fact that humans are their own worst enemy and we are too arrogant to do anything about that unless their is something in it for us. it would appear living more harmoniously with our planet this doing the 'right thing' doesnt count.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say