I think religious people do blame God. And ask Why. Why me? All that.
I have yet to see ONE, just ONE, on this forum, admit that. And I highly doubt I ever will.
Maybe not, but isn't "why" - "and why me" (whether asked rhetorically or of god) one stage of grief, of coming to terms?
I can't say for sure, but were I one who has placed her life in god's hands, and suffered a horrific/unnatural loss, or diagnosed with a terminal illness, whatever - I'd have to ask that.
Part of the process...I think. We try to make sense (with the little sense we have).
I think religious people do blame God. And ask Why. Why me? All that.
I have yet to see ONE, just ONE, on this forum, admit that. And I highly doubt I ever will.
Its as i said in my post. Very few people are going to publicly admit they are going through a bad time. The old "how are you doing today?" question rarely will lead to a person talking for 5 minutes about self doubt, loss, sadness, how they cant pay the bills, how their mom has cancer, how their dog just died. Thus we tend to focus only on the good. We only hear the good. A person isnt going to tell you they are having a rough time, let alone tell you they dont know why God would allow it to happen.
Its also alot easier to comprehend the positive versus the bad. We have all types of explanations why we won the lottery. Why we got that great new job. Why we found that great new house we want to buy. Its alot harder to come up with reasons why people fly planes into buildings or murder others or rape others. It would be just as hard to comprehend and explain it if it happened to us, if we got raped, or got assasulted, or we were injured in 9/11.
I fit the bill, i am that one. I dont blame God, but I do believe he is behind everything that happens in the world. Both good and bad. Maybe not that God is shooting people in malls or waging wars, but that he allows things to happen, both good and bad. And that our destiny, collectively and individually has been written out eons before we were even born. My path and destiny was written long ago. And ultimately every action I take, is of my own free will, but will eventually lead to my destiny whatever that may be. Its hard to comprehend why he would allow such horrible things to happen. I dont know any more than anyone else on the subject of why such things happen. I do believe in everything happens for a reason.
Additionally, as I said, doubt is a central part of faith. Thats the meaning of faith. To believe in the face of doubt and to have your faith tested. How can you truely believe in a higher power unless your faith HAS been tested. For many people, the trying times, the bad times only strengthen their faith. People seem to think people of faith always believe in God no matter what. Thats only partly true. There are moments of severe doubt and wondering and questioning. Thats all a part of it. Its natural.
In fact, i think faith and religion are appealing precisely because of how the world is. Those moments of serene beauty are God just as much as all the tragedy and horror is. And thats hard to deal with or get your mind wrapped around.
I think religious people do blame God. And ask Why. Why me? All that.
I have yet to see ONE, just ONE, on this forum, admit that. And I highly doubt I ever will.
Its as i said in my post. Very few people are going to publicly admit they are going through a bad time. The old "how are you doing today?" question rarely will lead to a person talking for 5 minutes about self doubt, loss, sadness, how they cant pay the bills, how their mom has cancer, how their dog just died. Thus we tend to focus only on the good. We only hear the good. A person isnt going to tell you they are having a rough time, let alone tell you they dont know why God would allow it to happen.
Its also alot easier to comprehend the positive versus the bad. We have all types of explanations why we won the lottery. Why we got that great new job. Why we found that great new house we want to buy. Its alot harder to come up with reasons why people fly planes into buildings or murder others or rape others. It would be just as hard to comprehend and explain it if it happened to us, if we got raped, or got assasulted, or we were injured in 9/11.
I fit the bill, i am that one. I dont blame God, but I do believe he is behind everything that happens in the world. Both good and bad. Maybe not that God is shooting people in malls or waging wars, but that he allows things to happen, both good and bad. And that our destiny, collectively and individually has been written out eons before we were even born. My path and destiny was written long ago. And ultimately every action I take, is of my own free will, but will eventually lead to my destiny whatever that may be. Its hard to comprehend why he would allow such horrible things to happen. I dont know any more than anyone else on the subject of why such things happen. I do believe in everything happens for a reason.
Additionally, as I said, doubt is a central part of faith. Thats the meaning of faith. To believe in the face of doubt and to have your faith tested. How can you truely believe in a higher power unless your faith HAS been tested. For many people, the trying times, the bad times only strengthen their faith. People seem to think people of faith always believe in God no matter what. Thats only partly true. There are moments of severe doubt and wondering and questioning. Thats all a part of it. Its natural.
In fact, i think faith and religion are appealing precisely because of how the world is. Those moments of serene beauty are God just as much as all the tragedy and horror is. And thats hard to deal with or get your mind wrapped around.
Well said! Lets try to take a different look at why? I dont know why and noone else does, but maybe God implemented a policy for population control. He knew that humans would strive and innovate in medical technology/medicine therefore we would grow older and older and eventually we would be living longer than what we were meant to be here. Lets say the ideal number of years for being on earth is 75. As we achieve medical milestones more and more of us are living to near 100. Therefore, our global population is reaching its maximum level. There are only enough resources to accomidate for so many people and the more people there are, the less resources per person available. So maybe its all a population control policy put forth by God. He was deeply sad to implement it, but it was necessary cause he was thinking about the children and young when doing it. Its all for the good of the children and the quality of their lives. Just some food for thought!
Theres no time like the present
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
I don't get how one can have free will and have a pre-determined destiny at the same time. that's contradictory. so what you are saying is God creates the mandate for humankind, but leaves the day to day operations up to....us?
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I don't get how one can have free will and have a pre-determined destiny at the same time. that's contradictory. so what you are saying is God creates the mandate for humankind, but leaves the day to day operations up to....us?
i think the pre determined destiny is set but its how we get there thats up to us.*
*im thinking out loud.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I don't get how one can have free will and have a pre-determined destiny at the same time. that's contradictory. so what you are saying is God creates the mandate for humankind, but leaves the day to day operations up to....us?
i think the pre determined destiny is set but its how we get there thats up to us.*
*im thinking out loud.
then that's not really free will. I mean, that means everything I do (including this) means nothing, if every path I take of every second of every day leads to me one pre-determined destination. which I refuse to believe.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I don't get how one can have free will and have a pre-determined destiny at the same time. that's contradictory. so what you are saying is God creates the mandate for humankind, but leaves the day to day operations up to....us?
i think the pre determined destiny is set but its how we get there thats up to us.*
*im thinking out loud.
then that's not really free will. I mean, that means everything I do (including this) means nothing, if every path I take of every second of every day leads to me one pre-determined destination. which I refuse to believe.
the only pre determined destination in my life is death. everything i do between now and then is up to me.. tho it is also subject to other peoples actions. ive said elsewhere that the only free will we have is how we choose to react to things placed in our oath. we have power only over ourselves. thats my thinking.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I don't get how one can have free will and have a pre-determined destiny at the same time. that's contradictory. so what you are saying is God creates the mandate for humankind, but leaves the day to day operations up to....us?
i think the pre determined destiny is set but its how we get there thats up to us.*
*im thinking out loud.
yes, thats my view on it at least. Whatever God planned out for me has been set by him, and was determined years before i even came into existence. I can quit my job, or move to Bangladesh or buy a BMW or become a botanist, but ultimately whatever my path and destiny and calling is, thats what will occur and I will eventually reach it. We can make decisions, I can move out of my apartment tomorrow and move to South Korea, I personally can do that, but my path and destiny has already been decided so it will eventually lead back to whatever that is.
I am of the belief God also is not only an outside force but is within is. So our thoughts, desires, hopes and dreams are essentially God. As Goethe said "What kind of God only is a force from without". So my desire to be whatever I want to be in life, my desire to be in a certain career or whatever is also a manifestation of God
I don't get how one can have free will and have a pre-determined destiny at the same time. that's contradictory. so what you are saying is God creates the mandate for humankind, but leaves the day to day operations up to....us?
i think the pre determined destiny is set but its how we get there thats up to us.*
*im thinking out loud.
then that's not really free will. I mean, that means everything I do (including this) means nothing, if every path I take of every second of every day leads to me one pre-determined destination. which I refuse to believe.
Well, my own thinking doesnt explain death or people dying young or being murdered or war or any of that. Ben Harper once said "'our destiny is greatness". And thats what I believe God views each and every one of us that way. Thats ultimately our destiny. Greatness is different for each and every person though. For some it might be being a famous movie star. For others it may be having kids and a great family.
As I said, I dont know how to explain tragedy and death and violence and bad things under this way of thinking. If God feels we are destined for greatness and if all our hopes and dreams and desires are God, why would we die of cancer and die young and all that? I have no clue
It is not contradictory a preset destiny and free will in the fifth dimension.
There are as many scenarios as there are stars,
Possibilities endless.
All I choose effects others and what they choose
effects me. We are all connected as we evolve to know more...
the preset plan
in times of inexplicable tragedy, I often wonder this:
people thank their god in times of triumph, so then why don't they blame him in times of incredible hardship and tragedy?
This is not a thread intended to mock any religion or belief system, I just want to understand the thinking here.
...
You pose a great question. Here is my viewpoint...
We are here for a reason. The reason WHY we are here is not known... and cannot be known. That is why Mankind has been creating gods since we first stepped out of the shadows and began living as social beings. The gods we create help us to explain our natural existances and to provide some sort of justice in a world where justice does not always exist. That is how we find comfort... in something that is beyond our comprehension... outside of our grasp. We are more that the the other creatures that roam the planet... therefore, in our minds, we MUST be greater than the natural world that exists in the physical universe.
We have great questions... but, possess no anwers. The answers we do get only lead to more and greater questions. Perhaps there IS a reason why we are here... then, again, maybe we are just another ife form in this universe.
So... from that... all i can really say that I know... is that I exist... here and now. I won't last forever, so, I make best of what i have. Love the ones you love... regardless if it is reciprocated. Enjoy what this life is and what it offers... because it ain't gonnna lasts. We got no guarantees.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
I have yet to see ONE, just ONE, on this forum, admit that. And I highly doubt I ever will.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I can't say for sure, but were I one who has placed her life in god's hands, and suffered a horrific/unnatural loss, or diagnosed with a terminal illness, whatever - I'd have to ask that.
Part of the process...I think. We try to make sense (with the little sense we have).
Its as i said in my post. Very few people are going to publicly admit they are going through a bad time. The old "how are you doing today?" question rarely will lead to a person talking for 5 minutes about self doubt, loss, sadness, how they cant pay the bills, how their mom has cancer, how their dog just died. Thus we tend to focus only on the good. We only hear the good. A person isnt going to tell you they are having a rough time, let alone tell you they dont know why God would allow it to happen.
Its also alot easier to comprehend the positive versus the bad. We have all types of explanations why we won the lottery. Why we got that great new job. Why we found that great new house we want to buy. Its alot harder to come up with reasons why people fly planes into buildings or murder others or rape others. It would be just as hard to comprehend and explain it if it happened to us, if we got raped, or got assasulted, or we were injured in 9/11.
I fit the bill, i am that one. I dont blame God, but I do believe he is behind everything that happens in the world. Both good and bad. Maybe not that God is shooting people in malls or waging wars, but that he allows things to happen, both good and bad. And that our destiny, collectively and individually has been written out eons before we were even born. My path and destiny was written long ago. And ultimately every action I take, is of my own free will, but will eventually lead to my destiny whatever that may be. Its hard to comprehend why he would allow such horrible things to happen. I dont know any more than anyone else on the subject of why such things happen. I do believe in everything happens for a reason.
Additionally, as I said, doubt is a central part of faith. Thats the meaning of faith. To believe in the face of doubt and to have your faith tested. How can you truely believe in a higher power unless your faith HAS been tested. For many people, the trying times, the bad times only strengthen their faith. People seem to think people of faith always believe in God no matter what. Thats only partly true. There are moments of severe doubt and wondering and questioning. Thats all a part of it. Its natural.
In fact, i think faith and religion are appealing precisely because of how the world is. Those moments of serene beauty are God just as much as all the tragedy and horror is. And thats hard to deal with or get your mind wrapped around.
Well said! Lets try to take a different look at why? I dont know why and noone else does, but maybe God implemented a policy for population control. He knew that humans would strive and innovate in medical technology/medicine therefore we would grow older and older and eventually we would be living longer than what we were meant to be here. Lets say the ideal number of years for being on earth is 75. As we achieve medical milestones more and more of us are living to near 100. Therefore, our global population is reaching its maximum level. There are only enough resources to accomidate for so many people and the more people there are, the less resources per person available. So maybe its all a population control policy put forth by God. He was deeply sad to implement it, but it was necessary cause he was thinking about the children and young when doing it. Its all for the good of the children and the quality of their lives. Just some food for thought!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
i think the pre determined destiny is set but its how we get there thats up to us.*
*im thinking out loud.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
then that's not really free will. I mean, that means everything I do (including this) means nothing, if every path I take of every second of every day leads to me one pre-determined destination. which I refuse to believe.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
the only pre determined destination in my life is death. everything i do between now and then is up to me.. tho it is also subject to other peoples actions. ive said elsewhere that the only free will we have is how we choose to react to things placed in our oath. we have power only over ourselves. thats my thinking.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
yes, thats my view on it at least. Whatever God planned out for me has been set by him, and was determined years before i even came into existence. I can quit my job, or move to Bangladesh or buy a BMW or become a botanist, but ultimately whatever my path and destiny and calling is, thats what will occur and I will eventually reach it. We can make decisions, I can move out of my apartment tomorrow and move to South Korea, I personally can do that, but my path and destiny has already been decided so it will eventually lead back to whatever that is.
I am of the belief God also is not only an outside force but is within is. So our thoughts, desires, hopes and dreams are essentially God. As Goethe said "What kind of God only is a force from without". So my desire to be whatever I want to be in life, my desire to be in a certain career or whatever is also a manifestation of God
Well, my own thinking doesnt explain death or people dying young or being murdered or war or any of that. Ben Harper once said "'our destiny is greatness". And thats what I believe God views each and every one of us that way. Thats ultimately our destiny. Greatness is different for each and every person though. For some it might be being a famous movie star. For others it may be having kids and a great family.
As I said, I dont know how to explain tragedy and death and violence and bad things under this way of thinking. If God feels we are destined for greatness and if all our hopes and dreams and desires are God, why would we die of cancer and die young and all that? I have no clue
There are as many scenarios as there are stars,
Possibilities endless.
All I choose effects others and what they choose
effects me. We are all connected as we evolve to know more...
the preset plan
You pose a great question. Here is my viewpoint...
We are here for a reason. The reason WHY we are here is not known... and cannot be known. That is why Mankind has been creating gods since we first stepped out of the shadows and began living as social beings. The gods we create help us to explain our natural existances and to provide some sort of justice in a world where justice does not always exist. That is how we find comfort... in something that is beyond our comprehension... outside of our grasp. We are more that the the other creatures that roam the planet... therefore, in our minds, we MUST be greater than the natural world that exists in the physical universe.
We have great questions... but, possess no anwers. The answers we do get only lead to more and greater questions. Perhaps there IS a reason why we are here... then, again, maybe we are just another ife form in this universe.
So... from that... all i can really say that I know... is that I exist... here and now. I won't last forever, so, I make best of what i have. Love the ones you love... regardless if it is reciprocated. Enjoy what this life is and what it offers... because it ain't gonnna lasts. We got no guarantees.
Hail, Hail!!!