Im All For

245

Comments

  • rollings
    rollings unknown Posts: 7,127
    deserteddotse wrote:
    pandora wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:
    individual rights
    me 2

    Wow, couldn't see that coming...


    I think posts like this need to start being called out for what they are.

    Not only does this type of post violate guidlines, it also takes away from the spirit of the thread (whatever it might be) and can also serve to diminish the poster's own respectability.

    I'm not picking on you, I'm just calling to light a type of unwarranted ugliness that I've seen creeping into alot of AMT threads that perhaps should be exposed at its source in each thread that it appears is all.

    Discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic. No personal comments. Look your comments over before hitting Submit and be sure you're debating THE TOPIC.
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    I sooo badly want a cougar.

    I just love them. I promise I'll raise it from a cub to become a loving pet that the neighbourhood could appreciate. You see others on the youtube that play with their owners and they look so fun.

    So... it's my right. Correct? I can have a cougar?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    JimmyV wrote:
    redrock wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    I'm all for personal responsibility.

    Real personal responsibility would be the ultimate.

    Agreed. We hear so much about rights, but just because we have the right to do something does not mean we necessarily should, would or need to do it.

    I would say that is all part of whether one 'uses' their right regardless, even to the detriment of others or if one actually thinks about the impact on the collective of him/her establishing that right. But, sadly, as a society, we are in general too greedy and selfish to consider the collective.
  • deserteddotse
    deserteddotse Posts: 1,276
    rollings wrote:
    deserteddotse wrote:
    Wow, couldn't see that coming...


    I think posts like this need to start being called out for what they are.

    Not only does this type of post violate guidlines, it also takes away from the spirit of the thread (whatever it might be) and can also serve to diminish the poster's own respectability.

    I'm not picking on you, I'm just calling to light a type of unwarranted ugliness that I've seen creeping into alot of AMT threads that perhaps should be exposed at its source in each thread that it appears is all.

    Discuss the topic, not the people discussing the topic. No personal comments. Look your comments over before hitting Submit and be sure you're debating THE TOPIC.

    Agreed, First and last one on my account. Sorry...
    Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the Universe...
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    I sooo badly want a cougar.

    I just love them. I promise I'll raise it from a cub to become a loving pet that the neighbourhood could appreciate. You see others on the youtube that play with their owners and they look so fun.

    So... it's my right. Correct? I can have a cougar?

    I guess it could be construed as a right in your pursuit of happiness, or property or just plain liberty. I don't think it's against the law so I guess you could. But as the cougar is endangered, would this 'right' (if one considers this a right) maybe infringe on the collective right as the cougar is endangered? Should I be your neighbour, could it infringe on my right to life should your cougar jump over the fence into my garden and attack me?
  • rollings
    rollings unknown Posts: 7,127
    deserteddotse wrote:
    Agreed, First and last one on my account. Sorry...

    :mrgreen: awesome! and thank you.
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,621
    A lot of times when I see someone claiming they're all for individual rights, it turns out they're more for individualized rights that meet their own personal needs.
  • deserteddotse
    deserteddotse Posts: 1,276
    rollings wrote:
    deserteddotse wrote:
    Agreed, First and last one on my account. Sorry...

    :mrgreen: awesome! and thank you.

    No problem... ;) I wish I could add more to the discussion but I find it (somewhat) hard to translate my thoughts (and they are many) into the english language. :(
    Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the Universe...
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Empty Glass wrote:
    I'm all for individual rights and as an Army vet, fought for them.

    I am against asshats who can't handle their individual rights responsibly.
    To the second part - YES.

    And to the first part - thank you.
  • lukin2006
    lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    5014ab78508d9bb4f68cef9dbc3b0173.jpg

    Yupper ... Individual rights rule.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • JimmyV
    JimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,605
    Go Beavers wrote:
    A lot of times when I see someone claiming they're all for individual rights, it turns out they're more for individualized rights that meet their own personal needs.

    Yep. "It's a free country! Don't infringe on my rights! Don't let the gays marry!" :?
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Thirty Bills Unpaid
    Thirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    redrock wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    I sooo badly want a cougar.

    I just love them. I promise I'll raise it from a cub to become a loving pet that the neighbourhood could appreciate. You see others on the youtube that play with their owners and they look so fun.

    So... it's my right. Correct? I can have a cougar?

    I guess it could be construed as a right in your pursuit of happiness, or property or just plain liberty. I don't think it's against the law so I guess you could. But as the cougar is endangered, would this 'right' (if one considers this a right) maybe infringe on the collective right as the cougar is endangered? Should I be your neighbour, could it infringe on my right to life should your cougar jump over the fence into my garden and attack me?

    Well... I guess you get my point. It's easy to speak of and cite 'individual rights', but at what point does the welfare of others trump an individual's rights? To me... there must be a line somewhere.

    Some very well-versed people have eloquently spoken for 'redrawing the line' where individual rights might be sacrificed for the greater of the whole. While I can understand why some individuals might be bothered by this, I cannot understand their reluctance to admit that the problem exists. They would have so much more credibility with me if they would acknowledge the problem instead of rationalizing or denying it.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • rollings
    rollings unknown Posts: 7,127
    deserteddotse wrote:
    rollings wrote:
    deserteddotse wrote:
    Agreed, First and last one on my account. Sorry...

    :mrgreen: awesome! and thank you.

    No problem... ;) I wish I could add more to the discussion but I find it (somewhat) hard to translate my thoughts (and they are many) into the english language. :(

    I understand how this could be difficult. Do the best you can. Most people will understand if something got lost in translation. (We are used to reading dimistrispearljam's posts afterall! :mrgreen: )
  • deserteddotse
    deserteddotse Posts: 1,276
    rollings wrote:
    Most people will understand if something got lost in translation. (We are used to reading dimistrispearljam's posts afterall! :mrgreen: )

    ;)
    Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the Universe...
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    deserteddotse wrote:
    rollings wrote:
    deserteddotse wrote:
    Agreed, First and last one on my account. Sorry...

    :mrgreen: awesome! and thank you.

    No problem... ;) I wish I could add more to the discussion but I find it (somewhat) hard to translate my thoughts (and they are many) into the english language. :(

    Your english seems more than enough to get your thoughts across. Don't worry about how it comes out. Would love to hear how you perceive this notion of individual rights. It's interesting to hear from different nationalities/cultures when it comes to this.
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    Well... I guess you get my point. It's easy to speak of and cite 'individual rights', but at what point does the welfare of others trump an individual's rights? To me... there must be a line somewhere.

    Some very well-versed people have eloquently spoken for 'redrawing the line' where individual rights might be sacrificed for the greater of the whole. While I can understand why some individuals might be bothered by this, I cannot understand their reluctance to admit that the problem exists. They would have so much more credibility with me if they would acknowledge the problem instead of rationalizing or denying it.

    Exactly. Many philosophers have (and still are) debating this, arguments/conclusions naturally differing following their 'penchant'.

    It is also that we do not have a common understanding of what are our 'individual rights' and what value they hold.
  • deserteddotse
    deserteddotse Posts: 1,276
    redrock wrote:
    deserteddotse wrote:

    No problem... ;) I wish I could add more to the discussion but I find it (somewhat) hard to translate my thoughts (and they are many) into the english language. :(

    Your english seems more than enough to get your thoughts across. Don't worry about how it comes out. Would love to hear how you perceive this notion of individual rights. It's interesting to hear from different nationalities/cultures when it comes to this.

    Thanks! I'll do my best... :)
    Give a monkey a brain and he'll swear he's the center of the Universe...
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    MayDay10 wrote:
    Im a fan of individual rights.

    I believe guns, drugs, and unchecked corporatism infringes on individual rights.

    I suppose

    The fact that they are allowed so much political power and the ability to spend towards campaigns as they please is insanity. Corporations and groups do not deserve that power...

    Groups do not have the same rights as individuals

    The Supreme Court fucked that up big time
  • riotgrl
    riotgrl LOUISVILLE Posts: 1,895
    redrock wrote:
    Fundamental right of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Other 'rights' are just 'actions' following in order to access these fundamental rights. Property being one of them (note: property in the largest sense of the word).



    But whilst property is one example, what about the right to life? Fundamental individual right one would say. One that shouldn't be taken away from any individual (unless such individual agrees to it..). Would my individual right to life supersede someone elses? If so why? If considered such a fundamental individual right, can one justify the death penalty as punishment or for the 'good of the collective'?

    Personally, I think we all fool ourselves thinking we have any 'control' over our rights - fundamental or acquired. All rights are relative.

    I shortened your post to focus on a couple of points....

    Locke, Jefferson, Voltaire, etc. all make valid points but definitely leave alot to be desired in regards to individual rights. I think another thing to address is the idea of collective rights. Would life fall under collective rights? What about access to a healthy environment? If we use life, liberty, property as the basis for individual rights then what constitutes the basis for collective rights? If the Enlightenment philosophers were trying to move away from the problems with tyrannical government then it makes sense that they would focus (heavily and almost exclusively) on individual rights because they needed to be defined and separated because individual rights was a new concept. Perhaps we need to redefine and refine the idea of individual rights.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • redrock
    redrock Posts: 18,341
    riotgrl wrote:
    I think another thing to address is the idea of collective rights. Would life fall under collective rights? What about access to a healthy environment? If we use life, liberty, property as the basis for individual rights then what constitutes the basis for collective rights? .

    We would then have to explore the likes of Marx, etc. The 'vile' words 'socialism' and 'communism'!!!!!
    riotgrl wrote:
    Perhaps we need to redefine and refine the idea of individual rights.
    Not sure we could get people to agree a definition! We all seem to perceive individual rights as something different, thus the difficulty with people expressing what these rights are - no one on this thread seemed willing to define what they see as 'individual rights'. When some do, it all seems extremely selfish and greedy. It would seem that 'choose' is a big word when it comes to individual rights. But choose what? And what if if interferes with my choice? Me, me, me... that what seems to count. Is 'choice' a fundamental right? If so, where do we stand on laws that curtail this choice? Sign of our times? Sign of a certain culture? The collective is no longer to be found in these rights.

    Maybe we ought to agree on what is a right!

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