Something Interesting To Ponder

DS1119

peacefrompaul wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

so how do you suggest both statistics be reduced to zero then?

I guess a bigger police presence would be one way.

I'm good on that

DS1119

peacefrompaul wrote:

http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2012/12/15/top_story/doc50cbbb312e241511092932.txt

catefrances

unsung wrote:

catefrances wrote:

embryos are not people.

Are embryos life?

are you asking if i think embryos are alive in utero?

catefrances

aerial wrote:

catefrances wrote:

embryos are not people.

Then why get rid of it? Why not leave it? Maybe because it means responsibility or consequences. Or on the other hand it reminds some of irresponsible moments.
I am not referencing any crime that may have been committed.

i know plenty about responsibilty, consequence and irresponsible moments. go try your guilt trip on somebody else cause im way too strong for your shit.

peacefrompaul

aerial wrote:

Then why get rid of it? Why not leave it? Maybe because it means responsibility or consequences. Or on the other hand it reminds some of irresponsible moments.
I am not referencing any crime that may have been committed.

My Pathos senses are tingling

DS1119

Why is abortion even being discussed here? :? I had zero intent for this thread to go that way. I'm all for an individuals rights in the US and I believe that extends into the gun world. My point of the thread is to show the hypocrisy I believe that exists on the unfair targeting of people that choose to own guns legally. I don't own a gun....at least not right now...and unless my personal junk changes sexes I'm pretty sure I'll never pregnant. Please leave the abortion stuff out.

dimitrispearljam

unsung wrote:

g under p wrote:

Guns are made to kill, cars are not...they are made to transport people.

A true statement, although guns are also made to defend.


.

true..defend,by kiling...

DS1119

dimitrispearljam wrote:

unsung wrote:

g under p wrote:

Guns are made to kill, cars are not...they are made to transport people.

A true statement, although guns are also made to defend.


.

true..defend,by kiling...

Yes. They are. You as a military member, would you be prepared to kill to defend?

know1

DS1119 wrote:

Why is abortion even being discussed here? :? I had zero intent for this thread to go that way. I'm all for an individuals rights in the US and I believe that extends into the gun world. My point of the thread is to show the hypocrisy I believe that exists on the unfair targeting of people that choose to own guns legally. I don't own a gun....at least not right now...and unless my personal junk changes sexes I'm pretty sure I'll never pregnant. Please leave the abortion stuff out.

Abortion and gun control makes a lot more logical sense than car crashes v. gun homicides.

comebackgirl

peacefrompaul wrote:

aerial wrote:

Then why get rid of it? Why not leave it? Maybe because it means responsibility or consequences. Or on the other hand it reminds some of irresponsible moments.
I am not referencing any crime that may have been committed.

My Pathos senses are tingling

is that similar to spidey sense? :think:

pandora

DS1119 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

embryos are not people.

There are many that would disagree with you on that.


BTW, I am prochoice.

Yes many including me.

This the key for me choice.

I am all about choice, the choice to own a gun responsibly, the choice to have an abortion,
the choice to marry whom we want, the choice to die when we are ready.
The choice to believe. The choice to speak freely.
All of these effect other people.
How we choose is the basis of our journey and those we effect on their journey too.
We all have choices and no one can control what another chooses to do.

MotoDC

Jason P wrote:

theory has already been debunked and shown to actually support gun regulation increases.

:fp:

It's weird how their feet look like hands.

MotoDC

catefrances wrote:

unsung wrote:

Would you say that potential exists in the embryo?

the potential to grow into a foetus and then if/when born, into a person, yes. there is also the potential that it could self abort at any stage of gestation... which is always a possibility with any pregnancy.

Wow we're combining gun control AND abortion into one thread? You guys gluttons for punishment or something?

edit: oops looks like mickeyrat already beat me to snarkiness

kw18

Comparing vehicle deaths to gun deaths is a non-sequitur. The main purpose of vehicles is to transport people from one area to another -- in today's culture, we couldn't function or hold down jobs without vehicles.

On the other hand, guns' main purpose is to kill things, and they're not necessary to funciton in today's culture.

Additionally, people get in cars and drive them around a lot more than people pull out their guns or even carry their guns, so there's more chance of death from a vehicle crash than from a shooting due to greater exposure to the cause.

As for whether reduction of guns leads to a reduction of homicides, several stats bear that out. There’s a strong coloration between gun ownership and gun homicides in the United States, in which rates for both are far greater than other countries. But when you look at non-gun homicide rates, the U.S. falls in line with other nations, suggesting that guns do attribute to violence.

peacefrompaul

comebackgirl wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

aerial wrote:

Then why get rid of it? Why not leave it? Maybe because it means responsibility or consequences. Or on the other hand it reminds some of irresponsible moments.
I am not referencing any crime that may have been committed.

My Pathos senses are tingling

is that similar to spidey sense? :think:

Very much so

It's the Greek version

Horos

pandora wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

embryos are not people.

There are many that would disagree with you on that.


BTW, I am prochoice.

Yes many including me.

This the key for me choice.

I am all about choice, the choice to own a gun responsibly, the choice to have an abortion,
the choice to marry whom we want, the choice to die when we are ready.
The choice to believe. The choice to speak freely.
All of these effect other people.
How we choose is the basis of our journey and those we effect on their journey too.
We all have choices and no one can control what another chooses to do.

This sounds selfish and sounds like there is no solution to the problem because no one can control what one chooses.

vant0037

DS1119 wrote:

Sorry another gun topic but I feel this is an important statistic for all to ponder and not get lost in a thread somewhere. In my mind it really puts things into perspective about US citizen's rights. I really don't understand why people discount comparisons made between gun ownership and vehicle ownership in the United States as being irrelevant. In my mind it's very relevant. I hear and read people talking about if the number of guns are reduced the number of deaths would be reduced. I don't believe that, but let's assume it's true. Can't the same be said about reducing the number of vehicles in the country as well. If a person's justification for being anti-guns is to save lives , shouldn't they also be anti-car? I found these numbers to be an eye opener for me actually.


These are 2009 numbers as they were the easiest to find. If someone wants to search out 2010 or 2011 feel free but I would assume they are pretty close.

2009 Estimated US population was 305,529,237

254,212,610 registered vehicles in the US including passenger cars, commercial vehicles, government vehicles, etc. All of them.

Estimated that there are 270,000,000 guns in the US both legal and registered, legal and unregistered and illegal.

33,308 fatalities in the US by motor vehicle.

9,146 homocides by gun (legal and illegal homicides so that's a legal citizen doing it, police doing it, and criminals committing a crime).

So there's less vehicles and more 3 times more fatalities by vehicle as compared to guns.

I'm not going to get into this one...I'm really, really, really tired of talking about guns. BUT...I think your numbers are still wrong. I can't find anywhere that says (1) there were 9,146 gun murders in 2009, or (2) that those 9,146 INCLUDES "legal homicides." Most statistics on "homicide" are referring to "criminal homicide," which would not include "legal homicides" (such as a police officer shooting someone). That's a valueless stat when you're studying the actual crime rate. Because a legal or justifiable homicide (like an officer shooting someone) isn't illegal, it's not a crime, and therefore (1) not relevant or helpful to an analysis of crime or murder rates, and (2) not collected as a "criminal homicide" in most databases.

So without going any further, I think you've got incorrect numbers, and the numbers you are using, are being used wrong.

blackredyellow

Christ... for once again you are comparing apples to oranges. An if anything your comparison hurts you.

Yes, cars are dangerous... yes people are killed by cars... but the obvious, people use cars MUCH MORE OFTEN than guns.

And more importantly, we have regulated cars and made them much safer. Traffic laws, DUI laws, airbags, crash protection, improving road conditions, etc etc etc. Thanks to many of these advancement, last year we saw the lowest rate of fatalities per mile driven in history, and it has been dropping.

But guns on the other hand are left largely unregulated. Gun backers have fought tooth and nail against every effort including common sense things like trigger locks, and stronger background checks. We have actually reduced gun control measures in the last decade.

So, you argument is foolish, and in a few years, you won't have a leg to stand on anyway, because gun deaths will likely surpass car deaths.

vant0037

...AND another thing...I am extremely disappointed that this thread is NOT about this...



Man he's terrible and boy is she overrated...

DS1119

vant0037 wrote:

DS1119 wrote:

Sorry another gun topic but I feel this is an important statistic for all to ponder and not get lost in a thread somewhere. In my mind it really puts things into perspective about US citizen's rights. I really don't understand why people discount comparisons made between gun ownership and vehicle ownership in the United States as being irrelevant. In my mind it's very relevant. I hear and read people talking about if the number of guns are reduced the number of deaths would be reduced. I don't believe that, but let's assume it's true. Can't the same be said about reducing the number of vehicles in the country as well. If a person's justification for being anti-guns is to save lives , shouldn't they also be anti-car? I found these numbers to be an eye opener for me actually.


These are 2009 numbers as they were the easiest to find. If someone wants to search out 2010 or 2011 feel free but I would assume they are pretty close.

2009 Estimated US population was 305,529,237

254,212,610 registered vehicles in the US including passenger cars, commercial vehicles, government vehicles, etc. All of them.

Estimated that there are 270,000,000 guns in the US both legal and registered, legal and unregistered and illegal.

33,308 fatalities in the US by motor vehicle.

9,146 homocides by gun (legal and illegal homicides so that's a legal citizen doing it, police doing it, and criminals committing a crime).

So there's less vehicles and more 3 times more fatalities by vehicle as compared to guns.

I'm not going to get into this one...I'm really, really, really tired of talking about guns. BUT...I think your numbers are still wrong. I can't find anywhere that says (1) there were 9,146 gun murders in 2009, or (2) that those 9,146 INCLUDES "legal homicides." Most statistics on "homicide" are referring to "criminal homicide," which would not include "legal homicides" (such as a police officer shooting someone). That's a valueless stat when you're studying the actual crime rate. Because a legal or justifiable homicide (like an officer shooting someone) isn't illegal, it's not a crime, and therefore (1) not relevant or helpful to an analysis of crime or murder rates, and (2) not collected as a "criminal homicide" in most databases.

So without going any further, I think you've got incorrect numbers, and the numbers you are using, are being used wrong.

The links are in this thread.