Something Interesting To Ponder

24

Comments

  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Yeah, can't discuss what the real killer of potential life is when comparing to another perceived destructor of life.


    40:1 abortions to gun deaths in the US daily.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    unsung wrote:
    Yeah, can't discuss what the real killer of potential life is when comparing to another perceived destructor of life.


    40:1 abortions to gun deaths in the US daily.

    sure we can... and i thought we were... and rather civilly.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Sorry, I was referring to the post directly above my previous.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    unsung wrote:
    Sorry, I was referring to the post directly above my previous.



    not a problem. :)
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    unsung wrote:
    g under p wrote:
    Guns are made to kill, cars are not...they are made to transport people.


    A true statement, although guns are also made to defend.


    Here's another statistic...I too found it with an easy Google search.

    87 people have their life ended each day in the US by a gun.
    3500 abortions are performed each day in the US.

    Lost potential at this grade school? 3500 is a lot of lost potential too. But that seems to be ok here.

    embryos are not people.

    Then why get rid of it? Why not leave it? Maybe because it means responsibility or consequences. Or on the other hand it reminds some of irresponsible moments.
    I am not referencing any crime that may have been committed.
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Not that I don't believe you... but, being the skeptic that I am...
    Can you please provide the referenced sources of your data so I can verify them?
    Thanx.



    US population 2009
    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/ ... d-counting

    Number of vehicles registered in 2009
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passenger_ ... ted_States

    Number of guns. Gun numbers>civilian guns
    http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

    Number of deaths by motor vehicle
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... S._by_year

    Number of homicides by gun. Gun death and injury>number of gun homicides
    http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487

    embryos are not people.

    Are embryos life?
  • DS1119 wrote:

    so how do you suggest both statistics be reduced to zero then?

    I guess a bigger police presence would be one way.

    I'm good on that
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    I'll bet you are.



    pikepepperspray_zps67220807.jpg
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    DS1119 wrote:

    so how do you suggest both statistics be reduced to zero then?

    I guess a bigger police presence would be one way.

    I'm good on that


    :clap:
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    unsung wrote:

    embryos are not people.

    Are embryos life?

    are you asking if i think embryos are alive in utero?
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    aerial wrote:
    embryos are not people.

    Then why get rid of it? Why not leave it? Maybe because it means responsibility or consequences. Or on the other hand it reminds some of irresponsible moments.
    I am not referencing any crime that may have been committed.


    i know plenty about responsibilty, consequence and irresponsible moments. go try your guilt trip on somebody else cause im way too strong for your shit.
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • aerial wrote:

    Then why get rid of it? Why not leave it? Maybe because it means responsibility or consequences. Or on the other hand it reminds some of irresponsible moments.
    I am not referencing any crime that may have been committed.

    My Pathos senses are tingling
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    Why is abortion even being discussed here? :? I had zero intent for this thread to go that way. I'm all for an individuals rights in the US and I believe that extends into the gun world. My point of the thread is to show the hypocrisy I believe that exists on the unfair targeting of people that choose to own guns legally. I don't own a gun....at least not right now...and unless my personal junk changes sexes I'm pretty sure I'll never pregnant. Please leave the abortion stuff out.
  • unsung wrote:
    g under p wrote:
    Guns are made to kill, cars are not...they are made to transport people.


    A true statement, although guns are also made to defend.


    .
    true..defend,by kiling...
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    unsung wrote:
    g under p wrote:
    Guns are made to kill, cars are not...they are made to transport people.


    A true statement, although guns are also made to defend.


    .
    true..defend,by kiling...


    Yes. They are. You as a military member, would you be prepared to kill to defend?
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    DS1119 wrote:
    Why is abortion even being discussed here? :? I had zero intent for this thread to go that way. I'm all for an individuals rights in the US and I believe that extends into the gun world. My point of the thread is to show the hypocrisy I believe that exists on the unfair targeting of people that choose to own guns legally. I don't own a gun....at least not right now...and unless my personal junk changes sexes I'm pretty sure I'll never pregnant. Please leave the abortion stuff out.

    Abortion and gun control makes a lot more logical sense than car crashes v. gun homicides.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • aerial wrote:

    Then why get rid of it? Why not leave it? Maybe because it means responsibility or consequences. Or on the other hand it reminds some of irresponsible moments.
    I am not referencing any crime that may have been committed.

    My Pathos senses are tingling
    is that similar to spidey sense? :think:
    tumblr_mg4nc33pIX1s1mie8o1_400.gif

    "I need your strength for me to be strong...I need your love to feel loved"
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    DS1119 wrote:

    embryos are not people.


    There are many that would disagree with you on that.


    BTW, I am prochoice.
    Yes many including me.

    This the key for me choice.

    I am all about choice, the choice to own a gun responsibly, the choice to have an abortion,
    the choice to marry whom we want, the choice to die when we are ready.
    The choice to believe. The choice to speak freely.
    All of these effect other people.
    How we choose is the basis of our journey and those we effect on their journey too.
    We all have choices and no one can control what another chooses to do.
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    Jason P wrote:
    theory has already been debunked and shown to actually support gun regulation increases.

    :fp:

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQPfnipQhCpD4ZsXbtdjChHOupNooiTInU44c-LRXKquA05yBpX
    It's weird how their feet look like hands.
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    unsung wrote:
    Would you say that potential exists in the embryo?


    the potential to grow into a foetus and then if/when born, into a person, yes. there is also the potential that it could self abort at any stage of gestation... which is always a possibility with any pregnancy.
    Wow we're combining gun control AND abortion into one thread? You guys gluttons for punishment or something?

    edit: oops looks like mickeyrat already beat me to snarkiness :D
  • kw18kw18 Posts: 3,909
    Comparing vehicle deaths to gun deaths is a non-sequitur. The main purpose of vehicles is to transport people from one area to another -- in today's culture, we couldn't function or hold down jobs without vehicles.

    On the other hand, guns' main purpose is to kill things, and they're not necessary to funciton in today's culture.

    Additionally, people get in cars and drive them around a lot more than people pull out their guns or even carry their guns, so there's more chance of death from a vehicle crash than from a shooting due to greater exposure to the cause.

    As for whether reduction of guns leads to a reduction of homicides, several stats bear that out. There’s a strong coloration between gun ownership and gun homicides in the United States, in which rates for both are far greater than other countries. But when you look at non-gun homicide rates, the U.S. falls in line with other nations, suggesting that guns do attribute to violence.
    "Where's KW?"
    "Let's check Idaho."
  • aerial wrote:

    Then why get rid of it? Why not leave it? Maybe because it means responsibility or consequences. Or on the other hand it reminds some of irresponsible moments.
    I am not referencing any crime that may have been committed.

    My Pathos senses are tingling
    is that similar to spidey sense? :think:

    Very much so

    It's the Greek version

    :lol:
  • HorosHoros Posts: 4,518
    pandora wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:

    embryos are not people.


    There are many that would disagree with you on that.


    BTW, I am prochoice.
    Yes many including me.

    This the key for me choice.

    I am all about choice, the choice to own a gun responsibly, the choice to have an abortion,
    the choice to marry whom we want, the choice to die when we are ready.
    The choice to believe. The choice to speak freely.
    All of these effect other people.
    How we choose is the basis of our journey and those we effect on their journey too.
    We all have choices and no one can control what another chooses to do.
    This sounds selfish and sounds like there is no solution to the problem because no one can control what one chooses.
    #FHP
  • vant0037vant0037 Posts: 6,121
    DS1119 wrote:
    Sorry another gun topic but I feel this is an important statistic for all to ponder and not get lost in a thread somewhere. In my mind it really puts things into perspective about US citizen's rights. I really don't understand why people discount comparisons made between gun ownership and vehicle ownership in the United States as being irrelevant. In my mind it's very relevant. I hear and read people talking about if the number of guns are reduced the number of deaths would be reduced. I don't believe that, but let's assume it's true. Can't the same be said about reducing the number of vehicles in the country as well. If a person's justification for being anti-guns is to save lives , shouldn't they also be anti-car? I found these numbers to be an eye opener for me actually.


    These are 2009 numbers as they were the easiest to find. If someone wants to search out 2010 or 2011 feel free but I would assume they are pretty close.

    2009 Estimated US population was 305,529,237

    254,212,610 registered vehicles in the US including passenger cars, commercial vehicles, government vehicles, etc. All of them.

    Estimated that there are 270,000,000 guns in the US both legal and registered, legal and unregistered and illegal.

    33,308 fatalities in the US by motor vehicle.

    9,146 homocides by gun (legal and illegal homicides so that's a legal citizen doing it, police doing it, and criminals committing a crime).

    So there's less vehicles and more 3 times more fatalities by vehicle as compared to guns.

    I'm not going to get into this one...I'm really, really, really tired of talking about guns. BUT...I think your numbers are still wrong. I can't find anywhere that says (1) there were 9,146 gun murders in 2009, or (2) that those 9,146 INCLUDES "legal homicides." Most statistics on "homicide" are referring to "criminal homicide," which would not include "legal homicides" (such as a police officer shooting someone). That's a valueless stat when you're studying the actual crime rate. Because a legal or justifiable homicide (like an officer shooting someone) isn't illegal, it's not a crime, and therefore (1) not relevant or helpful to an analysis of crime or murder rates, and (2) not collected as a "criminal homicide" in most databases.

    So without going any further, I think you've got incorrect numbers, and the numbers you are using, are being used wrong.
    1998-06-30 Minneapolis
    2003-06-16 St. Paul
    2006-06-26 St. Paul
    2007-08-05 Chicago
    2009-08-23 Chicago
    2009-08-28 San Francisco
    2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
    2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
    2011-09-03 PJ20
    2011-09-04 PJ20
    2011-09-17 Winnipeg
    2012-06-26 Amsterdam
    2012-06-27 Amsterdam
    2013-07-19 Wrigley
    2013-11-21 San Diego
    2013-11-23 Los Angeles
    2013-11-24 Los Angeles
    2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
    2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
    2014-10-09 Lincoln
    2014-10-19 St. Paul
    2014-10-20 Milwaukee
    2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
    2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
    2018-06-18 London 1
    2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
    2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
    2022-09-16 Nashville
    2023-08-31 St. Paul
    2023-09-02 St. Paul
    2023-09-05 Chicago 1
    2024-08-31 Wrigley 2
    2024-09-15 Fenway 1
    2024-09-27 Ohana 1
    2024-09-29 Ohana 2
  • Christ... for once again you are comparing apples to oranges. An if anything your comparison hurts you.

    Yes, cars are dangerous... yes people are killed by cars... but the obvious, people use cars MUCH MORE OFTEN than guns.

    And more importantly, we have regulated cars and made them much safer. Traffic laws, DUI laws, airbags, crash protection, improving road conditions, etc etc etc. Thanks to many of these advancement, last year we saw the lowest rate of fatalities per mile driven in history, and it has been dropping.

    But guns on the other hand are left largely unregulated. Gun backers have fought tooth and nail against every effort including common sense things like trigger locks, and stronger background checks. We have actually reduced gun control measures in the last decade.

    So, you argument is foolish, and in a few years, you won't have a leg to stand on anyway, because gun deaths will likely surpass car deaths.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • vant0037vant0037 Posts: 6,121
    ...AND another thing...I am extremely disappointed that this thread is NOT about this...

    samantha-steele-christian-ponder-gi.jpg

    Man he's terrible and boy is she overrated...
    1998-06-30 Minneapolis
    2003-06-16 St. Paul
    2006-06-26 St. Paul
    2007-08-05 Chicago
    2009-08-23 Chicago
    2009-08-28 San Francisco
    2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
    2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
    2011-09-03 PJ20
    2011-09-04 PJ20
    2011-09-17 Winnipeg
    2012-06-26 Amsterdam
    2012-06-27 Amsterdam
    2013-07-19 Wrigley
    2013-11-21 San Diego
    2013-11-23 Los Angeles
    2013-11-24 Los Angeles
    2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
    2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
    2014-10-09 Lincoln
    2014-10-19 St. Paul
    2014-10-20 Milwaukee
    2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
    2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
    2018-06-18 London 1
    2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
    2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
    2022-09-16 Nashville
    2023-08-31 St. Paul
    2023-09-02 St. Paul
    2023-09-05 Chicago 1
    2024-08-31 Wrigley 2
    2024-09-15 Fenway 1
    2024-09-27 Ohana 1
    2024-09-29 Ohana 2
  • DS1119DS1119 Posts: 33,497
    vant0037 wrote:
    DS1119 wrote:
    Sorry another gun topic but I feel this is an important statistic for all to ponder and not get lost in a thread somewhere. In my mind it really puts things into perspective about US citizen's rights. I really don't understand why people discount comparisons made between gun ownership and vehicle ownership in the United States as being irrelevant. In my mind it's very relevant. I hear and read people talking about if the number of guns are reduced the number of deaths would be reduced. I don't believe that, but let's assume it's true. Can't the same be said about reducing the number of vehicles in the country as well. If a person's justification for being anti-guns is to save lives , shouldn't they also be anti-car? I found these numbers to be an eye opener for me actually.


    These are 2009 numbers as they were the easiest to find. If someone wants to search out 2010 or 2011 feel free but I would assume they are pretty close.

    2009 Estimated US population was 305,529,237

    254,212,610 registered vehicles in the US including passenger cars, commercial vehicles, government vehicles, etc. All of them.

    Estimated that there are 270,000,000 guns in the US both legal and registered, legal and unregistered and illegal.

    33,308 fatalities in the US by motor vehicle.

    9,146 homocides by gun (legal and illegal homicides so that's a legal citizen doing it, police doing it, and criminals committing a crime).

    So there's less vehicles and more 3 times more fatalities by vehicle as compared to guns.

    I'm not going to get into this one...I'm really, really, really tired of talking about guns. BUT...I think your numbers are still wrong. I can't find anywhere that says (1) there were 9,146 gun murders in 2009, or (2) that those 9,146 INCLUDES "legal homicides." Most statistics on "homicide" are referring to "criminal homicide," which would not include "legal homicides" (such as a police officer shooting someone). That's a valueless stat when you're studying the actual crime rate. Because a legal or justifiable homicide (like an officer shooting someone) isn't illegal, it's not a crime, and therefore (1) not relevant or helpful to an analysis of crime or murder rates, and (2) not collected as a "criminal homicide" in most databases.

    So without going any further, I think you've got incorrect numbers, and the numbers you are using, are being used wrong.


    The links are in this thread.
Sign In or Register to comment.