Where did we go wrong.

faithfullale

(Quote) But most importantly, I believe that the lifelong lack of attention, lack of kindness, love, support and interest by those who should place the highest importancen on That is a major contributing factor in these horrific gestures to get the attention they never did.

I agree with above, the video games, tv, etc are ancillary to the lack of respect for humans and inability for parents in this day in age to properly raise their children. With divorce rates high, people cheating on their spouses, what is this behavior showing are children. I grew up playing many video games, tv, etc but also grew up in a very loving home. Unfortunately, violence will always be a part of any society. Think back during the Roman times where they would have games in the coliseum where people would die. Death and violence has been around for centuries. As our society becomes more technologically advance their seems to be more family disconnect. I see it sometimes with myself. My kids have iPods, wii, and I catch myself spending too much time on phone, computer and try to be cognisant of that and stop those behaviors and just get outside and interact with my kids and enjoy life and the beautiful things around us all. It is very hard to wrap your head around why this happens. Having 3 kids of my own this is such a tragic event. I don't think it is something government can change it is more our culture and lack of respect for your fellow man. Ver sad!!

anthonybroxterman

I agree that in the words of Vonnegut, “Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.” We need people to connect with and interact with in general.

However, sometimes things go awry even in the best circumstances. Andrew Solomon recently published a book called Far From the Treeand it takes a look at kids who are much different from their parents, sometimes in a very positive way, but in other cases, in very sad or tragic ways. One of the studies focuses on the parents of one of the Columbine shooters. Interesting and devastating to read.

redrock

pandora wrote:

The fact they both abandoned him might be the answer.

:?: Parents divorced when the guy was 17 and both parents shared custody. Father was in son's life who, must we be reminded was an adult. Brother - older - moved out of the home, got a job in another city and was making a life for himself. Like most adult kids do.

Abandoned??? Bit melodramatic.

Who Princess

anthonybroxterman wrote:

However, sometimes things go awry even in the best circumstances. Andrew Solomon recently published a book called Far From the Treeand it takes a look at kids who are much different from their parents, sometimes in a very positive way, but in other cases, in very sad or tragic ways. One of the studies focuses on the parents of one of the Columbine shooters. Interesting and devastating to read.

I think I want to read that. For many years it's puzzled me how you can have a family where each of the children receive essentially the same upbringing and all but one grow up to be loving, productive people. The one who doesn't never gets their life together or embraces crime. I first thought about it many years ago when one of my cousins dropped out of school, was kicked out of the military, became a petty criminal and eventually shot himself. His 2 brothers both went into health care professions. These were kids that I was around constantly growing up. They had loving parents that stayed married for life. The differences their lives took never made sense to me. My cousin harmed himself rather than others, but I don't know what made him different. I've since seen it in other families as well.

As for the OP, Speedy, I am as confused and sad as you. I think we do a lousy job of identifying and treating mental illness in this country but that's only a start. Some of the people who commit these crimes have had contact with the mental health system but some have not.

I don't have answers but I'm glad people are talking about this. We have to start somewhere.

EmBleve

pandora wrote:

They say she wasn't a teacher, at best a volunteer as it stands now,
the news ever changing though it seems.

One report stated that she was employed there at one time as a teacher's aide. But as you mentioned, the media is running rampant now.

EmBleve

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

The fact they both abandoned him might be the answer.

:?: Parents divorced when the guy was 17 and both parents shared custody. Father was in son's life who, must we be reminded was an adult. Brother - older - moved out of the home, got a job in another city and was making a life for himself. Like most adult kids do.

Abandoned??? Bit melodramatic.

Agreed. There isn't enough information about this guy's life at this point to be jumping to any conclusions, or assuming anything. The thing I wonder about the most is his motive for going to the school.

comebackgirl

There's just so many factors. The gun culture and glorification of violence plays a role. I've seen some maintstream movies that leave me shaken afterwards because of the amount of violence and cruelty that is displayed. I think our entire culture plays a role. American culture is about taking care of yourself, wanting more, wanting the biggest, the best. The good of the individual is valued over the good of the whole. There's a lack of empathy that's inherent to this way of thinking. Those with less are devalued; we blame the victim. I think there is a reason that some countries can have similar access to guns and yet crimes of this nature is so much less.

comebackgirl

EmBleve wrote:

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

The fact they both abandoned him might be the answer.

:?: Parents divorced when the guy was 17 and both parents shared custody. Father was in son's life who, must we be reminded was an adult. Brother - older - moved out of the home, got a job in another city and was making a life for himself. Like most adult kids do.

Abandoned??? Bit melodramatic.

Agreed. There isn't enough information about this guy's life at this point to be jumping to any conclusions, or assuming anything. The thing I wonder about the most is his motive for going to the school.

Me too. I just can't make sense of it. I can make sense of a bullied teen wanting retaliation or a person who is fired going back to their workplace. Horrible horrible crimes just the same, but I can see the link. I just can't wrap my mind around someone shooting a room of 5 year olds.

brianlux

Guns, yes, but also overcrowding and over population of our species, several decades of industrial pollution (heavy metals in our food supply, etc.) a culture of violence, and our tendency to stigmatize and inability to treat mental illness like any other form of illness.

EmBleve

comebackgirl wrote:

Me too. I just can't make sense of it. I can make sense of a bullied teen wanting retaliation or a person who is fired going back to their workplace. Horrible horrible crimes just the same, but I can see the link. I just can't wrap my mind around someone shooting a room of 5 year olds.

Neither can I. Especially considering the fact that he had already killed his mother. Yes, the link.. there is one here somewhere, we just don't know it yet. I understand what you mean.

hedonist

QuarterToTen wrote:

Such a simple question with no simple answer.

The desensitization of human beings in general towards violence, the lack of repercussions for people's horrid behaviors, the general callousness and extreme lack of simple kindnesses towards others in every day life are all major contributing factors. The inconsequential violence that is an accepted part of the games that are played in today's society.

The increasing isolation that the younger generation feels as a result of all the attachment and extreme significance all of the inanimate objects they/we all possess that mean more than simply looking someone in the eye and saying, Good Morning.

But most importantly, I believe that the lifelong lack of attention, lack of kindness, love, support and interest by those who should place the highest importance on That is a major contributing factor in these horrific gestures to get the attention they never did.

No simple answers, agreed...but this is spot on.

chadwick

Byrnzie wrote:

whygohome wrote:

The glorification of guns is a start

And the glorification of violence.

thank you... we can't show beauty which is the human nude body on television yet we can show murder & whatnot. unreal this fucking country

redrock

EmBleve wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

Me too. I just can't make sense of it. I can make sense of a bullied teen wanting retaliation or a person who is fired going back to their workplace. Horrible horrible crimes just the same, but I can see the link. I just can't wrap my mind around someone shooting a room of 5 year olds.

Neither can I. Especially considering the fact that he had already killed his mother. Yes, the link.. there is one here somewhere, we just don't know it yet. I understand what you mean.

There are suggestions that he had an altercation with staff members at the school the day before. Three of the four of these members have been shot dead.

But again... we don't know. Reports are all over the place.

The horror still remains - why shoot little kids. Shoot the people you had an argument with if you must, but all the others???? I guess that's why people jump on the mental illness thing straight away - it's easier to comprehend that way. If the shooter had Asperger's as it would seem the brother suggested, it doesn't 'cause' this type of behaviour.

EmBleve

redrock wrote:

There are suggestions that he had an altercation with staff members at the school the day before. Three of the four of these members have been shot dead.

But again... we don't know. Reports are all over the place.

The horror still remains - why shoot little kids. Shoot the people you had an argument with if you must, but all the others???? I guess that's why people jump on the mental illness thing straight away - it's easier to comprehend that way. If the shooter had Asperger's as it would seem the brother suggested, it doesn't 'cause' this type of behaviour.

Interesting.. yes, reports are all over the place--and many are probably inaccurate. The last thing I 'saw' was they said an altercation took place yesterday right before the shootings. Either way, the source of his discontent with anybody at the school is unknown (as far as I have heard thus far), and curious.
And yes, it's automatically assumed that someone who would do something like this has some sort of mental illness, (I keep hearing a 'personality disorder'), which of course isn't always necessarily the case. Asperger's I had heard, too.. not typically related to this type of violence, but I have heard of one person with Asperger's who had a extensive history of arson and pyromania.
Yes, it is absolutely horrific and tragic.

Jeanwah

QuarterToTen wrote:

But most importantly, I believe that the lifelong lack of attention, lack of kindness, love, support and interest by those who should place the highest importance on That is a major contributing factor in these horrific gestures to get the attention they never did.

Yes, absolutely the lack of love, support and attention growing up. And the division that runs this society rather than unity and acceptance adds to the problem. But now that it's over, that killer did end up getting the attention he wanted, didn't he? A little too late...