Where did we go wrong.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

I just have so many questions, as to what has happened in the last 20 years. Since 2000 there have been 79 school shootings in this country. 79 instances of someone bringing a gun to school. What the hell has gone wrong? Why is it that these kids(usually young men), decide that going to school and "wiping out" as many as possible, is the answer to anything? Why arent these kids able to deal with the proccess of maturity, becoming adolecents, then adults, the same way that all of us here dealt with it? What went so wrong with these kids that arming themselves with weapons, and rounds and rounds of ammunition, is the "answer".

Where have we gone wrong?

PLEASE dont tell me about the "GUN LAWS". I realize there needs to be change in our laws. It is OBVIOUS there needs to be change. But there is so much more to this, than just the gun laws. Where did we go wrong? What happened to these children, that MASS MURDER is the answer?

whygohome

The glorification of guns is a start:

whygohome

Simply put, we are a diseased culture on many fronts. Actions like this are simply the result.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

whygohome wrote:

The glorification of guns is a start:

Guns, guns, guns.
I get it.

But there is SO MUCH more to this.

Byrnzie

whygohome wrote:

The glorification of guns is a start

And the glorification of violence.

whygohome

whygohome wrote:

Simply put, we are a diseased culture on many fronts. Actions like this are simply the result.

There is a root cause for everything. It can be people having limited access to adequate health care, especially for mental health issues. It can be an incompetent government, it can be the years 2001-2009, it can be economical, it can be the fact that the banking and financial system and Wall St. destroyed this country, it can be the disease of celebrity worship, it can be the disease of narcissism, materialism, selfishness, it can be the distorted reality of Facebook, it can be bad parenting, it can be "gangster rap" and its glorification of violence, it can be film and TV and their glorification of violence.

Many, many reasons.

dimitrispearljam

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

whygohome wrote:

The glorification of guns is a start:

Guns, guns, guns.
I get it.

But there is SO MUCH more to this.

yes there is much more
....so many fuckin idiots that believe that guns will solve the problem of a violent society..

goingtoverona

americans are taught that violence is the answer to problems. we don't like communism in vietnam, we go to war over it. we think a country might be in possession of something we don't like, we go to war over it. we think a country is training people we don't like, we go war over it. we don't like what our citizens choose to put into their bodies, we go to war over it. we have been taught that violence and war are the answer. our tv shows and video games breed violence as well.

p.s. if they ever banned call of duty, i would go into a deep depression.

dimitrispearljam

goingtoverona wrote:

americans are taught that violence is the answer to problems. we don't like communism in vietnam, we go to war over it. we think a country might be in possession of something we don't like, we go to war over it. we think a country is training people we don't like, we go war over it. we don't like what our citizens choose to put into their bodies, we go to war over it. we have been taught that violence and war are the answer. our tv shows and video games breed violence as well.

p.s. if they ever banned call of duty, i would go into a deep depression.

you forget the parades and the all celebration when the war heroes come back

you know,...the wars that will bring peace and justice to the planet... :roll:

SPEEDY MCCREADY

whygohome wrote:

whygohome wrote:

Simply put, we are a diseased culture on many fronts. Actions like this are simply the result.

There is a root cause for everything. It can be people having limited access to adequate health care, especially for mental health issues. It can be an incompetent government, it can be the years 2001-2009, it can be economical, it can be the fact that the banking and financial system and Wall St. destroyed this country, it can be the disease of celebrity worship, it can be the disease of narcissism, materialism, selfishness, it can be the distorted reality of Facebook, it can be bad parenting, it can be "gangster rap" and its glorification of violence, it can be film and TV and their glorification of violence.

Many, many reasons.

Those 2 young men from Columbine, and this 20 year old yesterday...

I am going to say that they didnt have a fucking clue about the banking and financial system, or the so called incompetent government. But I will agree the the glorification of violence has to be a contributing factor.

pandora

Gaming... very young kids, hours of shooting and killing in games...
a form of brainwashing, desensitizing, for the susceptible.

Violent movies TV, parents allowing the very young to watch when they can not process
correctly.

Gun glory a basis in our culture. But respect for guns and life not being taught
as it was years ago.

This child went through so much in his teenage years and was already diagnosed
with some mental problems. His brother left for college, and his life. No talk for two years.
His father divorced left him and married another woman.
We do not know the state of his mothers mind. She did not work for the school it appears
and was said she is a stay at home Mom. She may have had problems herself.
Young men need a man figure. This boy, already troubled from witnesses in grade school,
returns to his school and kills 2 first grade classes.
Something failed him years ago and it just got worse.

SPEEDY MCCREADY

goingtoverona wrote:

americans are taught that violence is the answer to problems. we don't like communism in vietnam, we go to war over it. we think a country might be in possession of something we don't like, we go to war over it. we think a country is training people we don't like, we go war over it. we don't like what our citizens choose to put into their bodies, we go to war over it. we have been taught that violence and war are the answer. our tv shows and video games breed violence as well.

p.s. if they ever banned call of duty, i would go into a deep depression.

When we march off to war, we are met by the so called "enemy", right? Usually there is someone on the "other side", that ALSO has a gun in their hand. You know what I mean? There is no enemy when people march in to a theater, a school, a mall etc, an open fire killing as many unarmed innocent victims as possible.

whygohome

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

whygohome wrote:

whygohome wrote:

Simply put, we are a diseased culture on many fronts. Actions like this are simply the result.

There is a root cause for everything. It can be people having limited access to adequate health care, especially for mental health issues. It can be an incompetent government, it can be the years 2001-2009, it can be economical, it can be the fact that the banking and financial system and Wall St. destroyed this country, it can be the disease of celebrity worship, it can be the disease of narcissism, materialism, selfishness, it can be the distorted reality of Facebook, it can be bad parenting, it can be "gangster rap" and its glorification of violence, it can be film and TV and their glorification of violence.

Many, many reasons.

Those 2 young men from Columbine, and this 20 year old yesterday...

I am going to say that they didnt have a fucking clue about the banking and financial system, or the so called incompetent government. But I will agree the the glorification of violence has to be a contributing factor.

"goingtoverona" and I are referring to the culture as a whole.

Horos

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

I just have so many questions, as to what has happened in the last 20 years. Since 2000 there have been 79 school shootings in this country. 79 instances of someone bringing a gun to school. What the hell has gone wrong? Why is it that these kids(usually young men), decide that going to school and "wiping out" as many as possible, is the answer to anything? Why arent these kids able to deal with the proccess of maturity, becoming adolecents, then adults, the same way that all of us here dealt with it? What went so wrong with these kids that arming themselves with weapons, and rounds and rounds of ammunition, is the "answer".

Where have we gone wrong?

PLEASE dont tell me about the "GUN LAWS". I realize there needs to be change in our laws. It is OBVIOUS there needs to be change. But there is so much more to this, than just the gun laws. Where did we go wrong? What happened to these children, that MASS MURDER is the answer?

The 1st recorded school shooting in the US was in 1764. Many more occurred in the 19th century and several per decade in the 20th. People will resort to revenge, mentally stable or not.

My point is it's nothing 'we' did. Plenty of insanity out there and that's why it's hard to find a reason.

QuarterToTen

Such a simple question with no simple answer.

The desensitization of human beings in general towards violence, the lack of repercussions for people's horrid behaviors, the general callousness and extreme lack of simple kindnesses towards others in every day life are all major contributing factors. The inconsequential violence that is an accepted part of the games that are played in today's society.

The increasing isolation that the younger generation feels as a result of all the attachment and extreme significance all of the inanimate objects they/we all possess that mean more than simply looking someone in the eye and saying, Good Morning.

But most importantly, I believe that the lifelong lack of attention, lack of kindness, love, support and interest by those who should place the highest importance on That is a major contributing factor in these horrific gestures to get the attention they never did.

g under p

SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:

I just have so many questions, as to what has happened in the last 20 years. Since 2000 there have been 79 school shootings in this country. 79 instances of someone bringing a gun to school. What the hell has gone wrong? Why is it that these kids(usually young men), decide that going to school and "wiping out" as many as possible, is the answer to anything? Why arent these kids able to deal with the proccess of maturity, becoming adolecents, then adults, the same way that all of us here dealt with it? What went so wrong with these kids that arming themselves with weapons, and rounds and rounds of ammunition, is the "answer".

Where have we gone wrong?

PLEASE dont tell me about the "GUN LAWS". I realize there needs to be change in our laws. It is OBVIOUS there needs to be change. But there is so much more to this, than just the gun laws. Where did we go wrong? What happened to these children, that MASS MURDER is the answer?

Gun laws is one issue but I think a bigger issue is in America we have had and STILL have a prolification towards violence. Some of it comes from prolification towards the constant state of war the US appears to always is in. Violence on tv, videos, games tend to lead to the degradation within our society. Simplistic access to guns where 60% is background checked/restricted and 40% NOTHING at all checked tends to make these tragedies far more easier to come by.

I think a change in our culture towards more more violent images needs to change before we will see any lessening on these violent events.

Peace

London Bridge

I think if a child is bullied or made fun of during their school years, it opens the door to seek revenge at some point in their life.

We all have speculations on yesterday's shootings. Mine would be that his mother gave more attention to her students then she did her own son. If this occurred over many years, the animosity built up to the point of killing her and her students.

goingtoverona

this, in combination with some mental issue.

London Bridge wrote:

I think if a child is bullied or made fun of during their school years, it opens the door to seek revenge at some point in their life.

We all have speculations on yesterday's shootings. Mine would be that his mother gave more attention to her students then she did her own son. If this occurred over many years, the animosity built up to the point of killing her and her students.

pandora

London Bridge wrote:

I think if a child is bullied or made fun of during their school years, it opens the door to seek revenge at some point in their life.

We all have speculations on yesterday's shootings. Mine would be that his mother gave more attention to her students then she did her own son. If this occurred over many years, the animosity built up to the point of killing her and her students.

They say she wasn't a teacher, at best a volunteer as it stands now,
the news ever changing though it seems.

But perhaps something happened in first grade to him that was a turning point.
Perhaps a withdrawal and first memories of not feeling there and apart of school.
It was here he returned to end his life and take as many children with him as he could.

London Bridge

pandora wrote:

London Bridge wrote:

I think if a child is bullied or made fun of during their school years, it opens the door to seek revenge at some point in their life.

We all have speculations on yesterday's shootings. Mine would be that his mother gave more attention to her students then she did her own son. If this occurred over many years, the animosity built up to the point of killing her and her students.

They say she wasn't a teacher, at best a volunteer as it stands now,
the news ever changing though it seems.

But perhaps something happened in first grade to him that was a turning point.
Perhaps a withdrawal and first memories of not feeling there and apart of school.
It was here he returned to end his life and take as many children with him as he could.

I'm hoping the brother and father will be honest and provide the answers.

pandora

London Bridge wrote:

pandora wrote:

London Bridge wrote:

I think if a child is bullied or made fun of during their school years, it opens the door to seek revenge at some point in their life.

We all have speculations on yesterday's shootings. Mine would be that his mother gave more attention to her students then she did her own son. If this occurred over many years, the animosity built up to the point of killing her and her students.

They say she wasn't a teacher, at best a volunteer as it stands now,
the news ever changing though it seems.

But perhaps something happened in first grade to him that was a turning point.
Perhaps a withdrawal and first memories of not feeling there and apart of school.
It was here he returned to end his life and take as many children with him as he could.

I'm hoping the brother and father will be honest and provide the answers.

The fact they both abandoned him might be the answer.

faithfullale

(Quote) But most importantly, I believe that the lifelong lack of attention, lack of kindness, love, support and interest by those who should place the highest importancen on That is a major contributing factor in these horrific gestures to get the attention they never did.

I agree with above, the video games, tv, etc are ancillary to the lack of respect for humans and inability for parents in this day in age to properly raise their children. With divorce rates high, people cheating on their spouses, what is this behavior showing are children. I grew up playing many video games, tv, etc but also grew up in a very loving home. Unfortunately, violence will always be a part of any society. Think back during the Roman times where they would have games in the coliseum where people would die. Death and violence has been around for centuries. As our society becomes more technologically advance their seems to be more family disconnect. I see it sometimes with myself. My kids have iPods, wii, and I catch myself spending too much time on phone, computer and try to be cognisant of that and stop those behaviors and just get outside and interact with my kids and enjoy life and the beautiful things around us all. It is very hard to wrap your head around why this happens. Having 3 kids of my own this is such a tragic event. I don't think it is something government can change it is more our culture and lack of respect for your fellow man. Ver sad!!

anthonybroxterman

I agree that in the words of Vonnegut, “Many people need desperately to receive this message: 'I feel and think much as you do, care about many of the things you care about, although most people do not care about them. You are not alone.” We need people to connect with and interact with in general.

However, sometimes things go awry even in the best circumstances. Andrew Solomon recently published a book called Far From the Treeand it takes a look at kids who are much different from their parents, sometimes in a very positive way, but in other cases, in very sad or tragic ways. One of the studies focuses on the parents of one of the Columbine shooters. Interesting and devastating to read.

redrock

pandora wrote:

The fact they both abandoned him might be the answer.

:?: Parents divorced when the guy was 17 and both parents shared custody. Father was in son's life who, must we be reminded was an adult. Brother - older - moved out of the home, got a job in another city and was making a life for himself. Like most adult kids do.

Abandoned??? Bit melodramatic.

Who Princess

anthonybroxterman wrote:

However, sometimes things go awry even in the best circumstances. Andrew Solomon recently published a book called Far From the Treeand it takes a look at kids who are much different from their parents, sometimes in a very positive way, but in other cases, in very sad or tragic ways. One of the studies focuses on the parents of one of the Columbine shooters. Interesting and devastating to read.

I think I want to read that. For many years it's puzzled me how you can have a family where each of the children receive essentially the same upbringing and all but one grow up to be loving, productive people. The one who doesn't never gets their life together or embraces crime. I first thought about it many years ago when one of my cousins dropped out of school, was kicked out of the military, became a petty criminal and eventually shot himself. His 2 brothers both went into health care professions. These were kids that I was around constantly growing up. They had loving parents that stayed married for life. The differences their lives took never made sense to me. My cousin harmed himself rather than others, but I don't know what made him different. I've since seen it in other families as well.

As for the OP, Speedy, I am as confused and sad as you. I think we do a lousy job of identifying and treating mental illness in this country but that's only a start. Some of the people who commit these crimes have had contact with the mental health system but some have not.

I don't have answers but I'm glad people are talking about this. We have to start somewhere.

EmBleve

pandora wrote:

They say she wasn't a teacher, at best a volunteer as it stands now,
the news ever changing though it seems.

One report stated that she was employed there at one time as a teacher's aide. But as you mentioned, the media is running rampant now.

EmBleve

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

The fact they both abandoned him might be the answer.

:?: Parents divorced when the guy was 17 and both parents shared custody. Father was in son's life who, must we be reminded was an adult. Brother - older - moved out of the home, got a job in another city and was making a life for himself. Like most adult kids do.

Abandoned??? Bit melodramatic.

Agreed. There isn't enough information about this guy's life at this point to be jumping to any conclusions, or assuming anything. The thing I wonder about the most is his motive for going to the school.

comebackgirl

There's just so many factors. The gun culture and glorification of violence plays a role. I've seen some maintstream movies that leave me shaken afterwards because of the amount of violence and cruelty that is displayed. I think our entire culture plays a role. American culture is about taking care of yourself, wanting more, wanting the biggest, the best. The good of the individual is valued over the good of the whole. There's a lack of empathy that's inherent to this way of thinking. Those with less are devalued; we blame the victim. I think there is a reason that some countries can have similar access to guns and yet crimes of this nature is so much less.

comebackgirl

EmBleve wrote:

redrock wrote:

pandora wrote:

The fact they both abandoned him might be the answer.

:?: Parents divorced when the guy was 17 and both parents shared custody. Father was in son's life who, must we be reminded was an adult. Brother - older - moved out of the home, got a job in another city and was making a life for himself. Like most adult kids do.

Abandoned??? Bit melodramatic.

Agreed. There isn't enough information about this guy's life at this point to be jumping to any conclusions, or assuming anything. The thing I wonder about the most is his motive for going to the school.

Me too. I just can't make sense of it. I can make sense of a bullied teen wanting retaliation or a person who is fired going back to their workplace. Horrible horrible crimes just the same, but I can see the link. I just can't wrap my mind around someone shooting a room of 5 year olds.

brianlux

Guns, yes, but also overcrowding and over population of our species, several decades of industrial pollution (heavy metals in our food supply, etc.) a culture of violence, and our tendency to stigmatize and inability to treat mental illness like any other form of illness.

EmBleve

comebackgirl wrote:

Me too. I just can't make sense of it. I can make sense of a bullied teen wanting retaliation or a person who is fired going back to their workplace. Horrible horrible crimes just the same, but I can see the link. I just can't wrap my mind around someone shooting a room of 5 year olds.

Neither can I. Especially considering the fact that he had already killed his mother. Yes, the link.. there is one here somewhere, we just don't know it yet. I understand what you mean.