Michigan - Right to Work

unsung

cincybearcat wrote:

Are you really ok with that?

Forcing someone to join a union in order to have a job is ridiculous. I believe Right to Work has it right. If the union is providing a valuable service to the employees, they will maintain membership levels.

Yeah, I am. I have no issue with the modest amount of dues that I pay as it does go towards representation. My contract is on par with most other companies in the same sector. I do draw the line with my dues going into the political campaign chests of politicians that I do not support.

Again, I am not forced into a union, I can go other places to work. This is my choice. Sure it is a condition of employment, but so are searches, drug tests, and other workplace rules. In the big picture it doesn't amount to anything. People make some big issue like they care about whether I have to pay dues or not. I think most people are jealous of what we have so they try to disguise their jealousy with their cause to fight for my rights. Go away.

Jason P

lukin2006 wrote:

JC29856 wrote:

i find ironic:
people that are so opposed to unions yet they waste 1/3 (if not more) of their life watching union employees on TV, most of which are the strongest of unions!

not to mention attending sporting events, supporting musicians all of which belong to unions.

Have the unions recently helped any of these groups?

We had the advent of reality TV as a result of a writers strike, thus less jobs for actors.

Hockey and baseball players have lost millions that they will never recoup.

And the music industry is in the crapper (although no fault to unions. steve jobs can take credit for that).

Just say'n.

vant0037

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I'm fine if unions exist. But, I also thinks folks should have a right to choose. Don't tell men and women what to do with their bodies...errr... I mean money. You should be free to do as you please. How can anyone not be for that? :?

I'm glad someone else picked up on the particular words flying around here. While I beg to differ that "Right To Work" legislation is really about choice (that fear4freedom guy said it best, unions are under-attack because who they traditionally support politically, period), it is funny to see so many typically conservative posters adopting such a "pro-choice" stance on one issue and presumably such an anti-choice position on other issues. I'm not saying its a contradiction necessarily, but interesting nonetheless. I couldn't help but think: "I'll bet some of you never thought you'd be arguing so hard for a pro-choice issue..."

EdsonNascimento

vant0037 wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I'm fine if unions exist. But, I also thinks folks should have a right to choose. Don't tell men and women what to do with their bodies...errr... I mean money. You should be free to do as you please. How can anyone not be for that? :?

I'm glad someone else picked up on the particular words flying around here. While I beg to differ that "Right To Work" legislation is really about choice (that fear4freedom guy said it best, unions are under-attack because who they traditionally support politically, period), it is funny to see so many typically conservative posters adopting such a "pro-choice" stance on one issue and presumably such an anti-choice position on other issues. I'm not saying its a contradiction necessarily, but interesting nonetheless. I couldn't help but think: "I'll bet some of you never thought you'd be arguing so hard for a pro-choice issue..."

Except I'm pro choice for women, as well. And, I'm not the only fiscal conservative that feels that way by a long shot.

I actually couldn't help but think how liberal leaning folks tend to label folks so easily.

I just think folks should be able to do what they want. I think it's funny so many liberal unionites are for freedom of choice for "killing a baby," (stay with me here, I'm making a point) but not freedom of choice for how you work. That seems more hypocritical than what you are trying to portray. Again, I'm pro choice, but at least I see the evangelical's point about when a fetus becomes a baby (not that I agree with it). However, I don't see the forced union part. What's that all about other than taking away someone's rights?

JC29856

oh so this is all about giving the hard worker a choice?? silly me. i was way off base in my thinking

polaris_x

this right to work legislation is not about choice ... indirectly it is but ultimately what it comes down to in michigan is ...

politically motivated union busting under the guise of labour force competitiveness ... in the short term - you might see a spike in jobs ... nothing significant ... but in the long run ... what you are going to have are corporations playing one state off another ... to the point that combined with state incentives and a cheaper labour force will drive corporate profits and shareholder value ...

so, who wins? executives and shareholders ... who loses? ... the people ...

you can pretty much sum up every major gov't policy decision to this formula ... verdict is out on obamacare tho ...

JC29856

you can pretty much sum up every major gov't policy decision to this formula ... verdict is out on obamacare tho ...[/quote]


it is??? how so??
healthcare is now a commodity, one in which the gov't is forcing you to buy. it also give the companies many good excuses to raise rates (well now were forced to cover the sick!) (now were forced to give rebates if...). has anyone anywhere in the us received better coverage and paid less than the year before? or has it been the pay more for less coverage continuum?

polaris_x

JC29856 wrote:

it is??? how so??
healthcare is now a commodity, one in which the gov't is forcing you to buy. it also give the companies many good excuses to raise rates (well now were forced to cover the sick!) (now were forced to give rebates if...). has anyone anywhere in the us received better coverage and paid less than the year before? or has it been the pay more for less coverage continuum?

well ... i was leaving some rope in case people are actually better off ... :ugeek:

cincybearcat

vant0037 wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I'm fine if unions exist. But, I also thinks folks should have a right to choose. Don't tell men and women what to do with their bodies...errr... I mean money. You should be free to do as you please. How can anyone not be for that? :?

I'm glad someone else picked up on the particular words flying around here. While I beg to differ that "Right To Work" legislation is really about choice (that fear4freedom guy said it best, unions are under-attack because who they traditionally support politically, period), it is funny to see so many typically conservative posters adopting such a "pro-choice" stance on one issue and presumably such an anti-choice position on other issues. I'm not saying its a contradiction necessarily, but interesting nonetheless. I couldn't help but think: "I'll bet some of you never thought you'd be arguing so hard for a pro-choice issue..."

Yeah because a job and a child are exactly the same thing.

vant0037

cincybearcat wrote:

vant0037 wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I'm fine if unions exist. But, I also thinks folks should have a right to choose. Don't tell men and women what to do with their bodies...errr... I mean money. You should be free to do as you please. How can anyone not be for that? :?

I'm glad someone else picked up on the particular words flying around here. While I beg to differ that "Right To Work" legislation is really about choice (that fear4freedom guy said it best, unions are under-attack because who they traditionally support politically, period), it is funny to see so many typically conservative posters adopting such a "pro-choice" stance on one issue and presumably such an anti-choice position on other issues. I'm not saying its a contradiction necessarily, but interesting nonetheless. I couldn't help but think: "I'll bet some of you never thought you'd be arguing so hard for a pro-choice issue..."

Yeah because a job and a child are exactly the same thing.

Whoa! Easy there tiger (bearcat, tiger...get it?). I was fairly explicit that this was an observation about the similar language used in both issues but how the people using it are probably on very different sides of each issue. I said nothing about them being "the exact same thing" (you did). Apparently, a light-hearted, non-substantive observation is lost on everyone out there in the trenches.

Sheesh.

Jeanwah

lukin2006 wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Labor unions are the sole reason why true reform will never happen. There will never be any educational reform as longs as there are teacher unions. The reason the USPS is in trouble is because of the unions preventing them from privatizing. Of course some union members like the union for the high pay. But at what cost? The cost of a bankrupt country with under-educated children who will soon be the adults running this country.

No there not ...

Ugh, yes, they are. (and it's 'they're')

riotgrl

For what it's worth....I am in a union and many of the issues that are cited as the problem with unions also occur in other non-unionized industries. "Bad" teachers can never be fired but are kept and/or promoted but my husband works for a very large package company and the exact same thing happens there (and none of his co-workers are allowed to be unionized). He has superiors that were terrible in mid-management positions and even worse in their elevated positions. From my perspective, alot of the problems we see within a workplace are very common despite the presence or lack of unions.

fear4freedom

Detroit is a microcosm of what the country will look like if Unions have their way! We almost had the olympics in Detroit! Detroit used to be nice and vibrant, now look at it! WOW The evidence is clear and in everyones face! Cmon Democrats have run that city and many others like it for 40 years straight and big labor has cause jobs to be lost forever! Its simple....the costs are pushed on to the consumer and therefore the goods are more money. We cannot compete with other countries and we all like cheaper items and goods, so thats what most Americans purchase. Its common sense!

lukin2006

Jeanwah wrote:

lukin2006 wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

Labor unions are the sole reason why true reform will never happen. There will never be any educational reform as longs as there are teacher unions. The reason the USPS is in trouble is because of the unions preventing them from privatizing. Of course some union members like the union for the high pay. But at what cost? The cost of a bankrupt country with under-educated children who will soon be the adults running this country.

No there not ...

Ugh, yes, they are. (and it's 'they're')

Yes miss grammar police...I doubt they are...more likely the lack of a well funded system is a problem...

lukin2006

fear4freedom wrote:

Detroit is a microcosm of what the country will look like if Unions have their way! We almost had the olympics in Detroit! Detroit used to be nice and vibrant, now look at it! WOW The evidence is clear and in everyones face! Cmon Democrats have run that city and many others like it for 40 years straight and big labor has cause jobs to be lost forever! Its simple....the costs are pushed on to the consumer and therefore the goods are more money. We cannot compete with other countries and we all like cheaper items and goods, so thats what most Americans purchase. Its common sense!

The city can't be as corrupt as you say if they didn't get the Olympic...

pjl44

JC29856 wrote:

yeah, had a discussion last night with someone, totally tearing apart unions, why they are so bad, dragging down society, the whole bit, i mean the guy was intense... i said wow, you must hate sports...he said what? i love football, playoff baseball is the best... i said oh

This never happened.

fear4freedom

heres what makes the actions of the union thugs a total joke.....you can still check the box to be in the union! LOL WOW These people are nuts! Imagine if Obama lost election, every city would be rioting with raging liberals for their causes! This is a microcosm of what it would look like! My message to those guys pushing the tent over with old ladies in it, "Hey guys, its ok, you can still check the box" and remain in the same union you are in there! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

fear4freedom

Obama calls up Sandra Fluk, has a beer summit at white house, he always acts early on things in his favor, BUT not a peep out of Obama about the violence in Michigan with the Union thugs yesterday. No condemnation from our leader huh? Hmmmmm ok there Mr. President. Good job of leading your country!

JC29856

fear4freedom wrote:

Detroit is a microcosm of what the country will look like if Unions have their way! We almost had the olympics in Detroit! Detroit used to be nice and vibrant, now look at it! WOW The evidence is clear and in everyones face! Cmon Democrats have run that city and many others like it for 40 years straight and big labor has cause jobs to be lost forever! Its simple....the costs are pushed on to the consumer and therefore the goods are more money. We cannot compete with other countries and we all like cheaper items and goods, so thats what most Americans purchase. Its common sense!

so unions ruined the auto industry, not japan building a better car? wonder when unions are going to ruin baseball, football, movies and television, hopefully soon.

cincybearcat

lukin2006 wrote:

No there not ...

Ugh, yes, they are. (and it's 'they're')[/quote]

Yes miss grammar police...I doubt they are...more likely the lack of a well funded system is a problem...[/quote]


You can blame shitty grammar on the teacher's union!!!!