I Tried to save the trees, Bought a platsic bag. The bottom fell out... It was a piece of crap.
Saw it on the tube, Bought it on the phone. Now you're home alone with a piece of crap.
I tried to plug in it, I tried to turn it on. When I got it home, It was a piece of crap.
Got it from a friend On him you can depend. I found out in the end It was a piece of crap.
I'm trying to save the trees, I saw it on TV. They cut the forest down To build a piece of crap.
I went back to the store, They gave me four more. The guy told me at the door, "It's a piece of crap".
If people want to wait outside a store for however long they want to do it I see no problem with that.
I think he's more getting at what it may or may not say about the people who are willing to stand outside the store for that long. Sure they should have the freedom to do as they wish, but why is it that important to camp out just for the opportunity to buy more stuff? What does that say about our values as a culture?
And yes, we 10c members are complicit too. (see: overpriced backpacks).
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
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If people want to wait outside a store for however long they want to do it I see no problem with that.
I think he's more getting at what it may or may not say about the people who are willing to stand outside the store for that long. Sure they should have the freedom to do as they wish, but why is it that important to camp out just for the opportunity to buy more stuff? What does that say about our values as a culture?
And yes, we 10c members are complicit too. (see: overpriced backpacks).
The gentleman from Minnesota raises a good point!
Maybe I am too idealisitc, but imagine if everyone who waited in line instead opted to do 8 hours of charity work!
I wonder how many people didn't vote in the recent election because they didn't want to wait in line for 30 minutes?
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,090
Maybe I am too idealisitc, but imagine if everyone who waited in line instead opted to do 8 hours of charity work!
:thumbup:
As an added bonus, charity work is great for ones outlook on life!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Riotgirl said it al; "When will we realize that we have a collective, not an individualistic nature, and that we NEED each other? This sense of loss and loneliness cannot be filled in this way. Caring for each other and working together have been ingrained in our DNA for the past 3 million years, we can't just buy our way out of the things we need."
Mr. Olav chimed in with a fatalistic view that I would tag on here cept I'm still post-challenged!
If people want to wait outside a store for however long they want to do it I see no problem with that.
I think he's more getting at what it may or may not say about the people who are willing to stand outside the store for that long. Sure they should have the freedom to do as they wish, but why is it that important to camp out just for the opportunity to buy more stuff? What does that say about our values as a culture?
And yes, we 10c members are complicit too. (see: overpriced backpacks).
I would say what does it say for people who sit behind keyboards on a random chat board commenting on people standing in lines to buy stuff? What's actually more productive? What values are those in the grand scheme of life?
Again if someone wants to spend their time in a line somewhere so be it. Just like if someone wants to spend their time sitting in a park feeding pigeons. Is that time better spent or do they have better values?
i could use a new car, a new place of my very own & a new set of carhartt bibs
If I win the lotery, done and done.
As a fellow lumberjack, I got to spread the wealth.
And judging by your avatar, I believe we my have rubbed elbows at some point in time.
where have you been? i live in iowa & have lived in western washington. i've traveled around for many years in a semi tractor trailer. so yes we could have rubbed elbows at some point in time.
HEY HUGHEY! What do you do to reduce your consumerism? Cause its all relative....for the most part...
I mean an Occupy campout requires more consumerism in a sense that all the security detail, gas, resources, etc. costs the taxpayers and the city more money than a peaceful line of money spenders at an IKEA. It consumes much more resources to suck up tax dollars to host an OCCUPY event for sure! Just wondering your ways to reduce your consumerism?
I rent a bedroom, drive a 4 cy. car, recycle everything, I got an old tv that is deeper than wide, I am oldschool, mostly I dont go anywhere unless I have to! I dont shop for things I dont need, etc.
I dont have any debt and I dont take anything fromt the govt. ! OH and Im a conservative! LOL
YOU?
Theres no time like the present
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,090
I rent a bedroom, drive a 4 cy. car, recycle everything, I got an old tv that is deeper than wide, I am oldschool, mostly I dont go anywhere unless I have to! I dont shop for things I dont need, etc.
I dont have any debt and I dont take anything fromt the govt. ! OH and Im a conservative! LOL
Just curious, what does being a conservative have to do with how you live?
By conservative do you mean: " tending to conserve; preservation." If so, I say :thumbup:
If you mean: "Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change," then you might want to look at that more closely because traditional values include raping and pillaging the earth and if that doesn't change we're toast.
Pretty much the same. Other than basics, I most buy used stuff and even then mostly used books and records. Unfortunately neither I nor anyone I know lives in a truly sustainable manner. Not one single soul. So what to do? I'm for lowering the population, educating, living lighter and having fun while we're at it.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
If it was a rare PJ item... front row seats, a meet and greet chance
PJ fans would camp out for days. And the rest of the world think them crazy.
I think what is out of control is finding fault with what other people do in their lives.
But we are all connected in this life, even if we choose to ignore that what you (or I) do in our lives does (or doesn't) effect others. I think that what is out of control is this insulated, isolated mentality that so many have today that we can continue to consume and consume and consume with little or no long term effect.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I rent a bedroom, drive a 4 cy. car, recycle everything, I got an old tv that is deeper than wide, I am oldschool, mostly I dont go anywhere unless I have to! I dont shop for things I dont need, etc.
I dont have any debt and I dont take anything fromt the govt. ! OH and Im a conservative! LOL
Just curious, what does being a conservative have to do with how you live?
By conservative do you mean: " tending to conserve; preservation." If so, I say :thumbup:
If you mean: "Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change," then you might want to look at that more closely because traditional values include raping and pillaging the earth and if that doesn't change we're toast.
Pretty much the same. Other than basics, I most buy used stuff and even then mostly used books and records. Unfortunately neither I nor anyone I know lives in a truly sustainable manner. Not one single soul. So what to do? I'm for lowering the population, educating, living lighter and having fun while we're at it.
Hey Brian I appreciate your passion for the earth and the enviroment. I have expressed in the past that one thing i see is conservatives being much more responsible in many ways than liberals. Sure there are liberals who drive prius's and conservatives who drive big trucks, but mainly those are stereotypes. I see liberals consuming and spending more than conservatives and vice versa. Just because one claims to care about the enviroment doesnt necessarily make them better than a conservative who claims the same. I do see people that are liberal (carefree) consuming more believe it or not. It comes with that attitude. Occupy movment is proof, it consumes, costs and dirties all the cities money, resources, etc. I seen it, been there done that!
You are for lowering the population? Eugenicist huh? Well, think about this.....if everyone lived a more conservative and moral thinking when they are in their teens, if they also lived a more Christ-like life, the population would be way less! I got teen cousins who like to do drugs, have sex, have kids, collect welfare and get Social Security Dissability before they are 35 cause they are so messed up on drugs! My point, if everyone stayed sober, worked hard, waited until they got married to have two children, the worlds population would be more balanced, healthy, sustained,etc. So the moral of the story....if everyone would have lived a bible-like life since the year 0, the worlds population and the health of our population would have been much better off, including the earths request of how we reproduce and take care of her!
Also, I see bible-living people take care of this planet more so than carefree liberals, socialists, communists, etc.! Just a thought! YOU?
Theres no time like the present
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
I rent a bedroom, drive a 4 cy. car, recycle everything, I got an old tv that is deeper than wide, I am oldschool, mostly I dont go anywhere unless I have to! I dont shop for things I dont need, etc.
I dont have any debt and I dont take anything fromt the govt. ! OH and Im a conservative! LOL
Just curious, what does being a conservative have to do with how you live?
By conservative do you mean: " tending to conserve; preservation." If so, I say :thumbup:
If you mean: "Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change," then you might want to look at that more closely because traditional values include raping and pillaging the earth and if that doesn't change we're toast.
Pretty much the same. Other than basics, I most buy used stuff and even then mostly used books and records. Unfortunately neither I nor anyone I know lives in a truly sustainable manner. Not one single soul. So what to do? I'm for lowering the population, educating, living lighter and having fun while we're at it.
raping and pillaging the earth happens in Brazil, China, Korea, Japan, Denmark and Russia and elsewhere, so you think American traditional values did that, or do you think human evolution and advancement did that? Cause I am pretty sure that many things would still exist, even without America altogether, such as WAR, population overgrowth, famine, starvation, dictatorships, cutting down trees, raping mother earth, etc. All that would still be going on without the good ol USA
Theres no time like the present
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
Brace yourself. It’s time to go Christmas shopping again. But wait, does it have to be this way? While some bravely enter the fray of crowded parking lots and ringing registers, others are saying “no” to the whole shopping thing and finding ways to revive the original meaning of Christmas giving. In fact, in a recent Ipsos Reid survey conducted on behalf of World Vision, 84 percent of Canadians said they would rather have a holiday gift given to a charity in their name than receive more socks or sweaters.
There is even an organization encouraging us to have a “Buy Nothing Christmas.” It a national initiative started by Mennonites “but open to everyone with a thirst for change and a desire for action.” Co-founder Aiden Enns of Winnipeg says, “When I was working at Adbusters magazine back in 2001, I noticed how successful the Buy Nothing Day campaign was, especially in North America and the UK.” “What a shame that it’s only one day, I thought,” says Enns. So he decided to inject a spirit of radical simplicity into the whole Christmas season…and Buy Nothing Christmas was born.
His first act was to gather a few of his Mennonite friends, pass the hat and purchase a full-page ad in their national church magazine. “If you think Christmas has gotten too commercialized, here’s your chance to do nothing about it,” the ad read. Then the group of volunteers took the message to the broader public and launched a website to spread the word.
It’s not that Enns and his group are against giving things at Christmas. “Gift-giving is important,” he says. “It’s a profound action, an important glue that keeps communities strong, people less individualistic. But this gift-giving impulse has been exploited by consumer capitalism and a market that preys upon our appetite for wasteful gadgets and soon-obsolete fashions.” Gift-giving shows affection, thoughtfulness and love, he says. “While gift-giving is a good thing to do at Christmas, that doesn’t mean we have to go overboard.”
Buy Nothing Christmas suggests that, instead of buying a pile of glitzy presents, give a personal gift. That could involve giving someone a gift of your own artwork, a collection of meaningful photos, a collection of favorite family recipes, a shared trip to a movie, a coupon for babysitting to new parents, a charitable donation in the giftee’s name, etc.
When you do buy things, Enns encourages you to remember principles like buying locally-produced, fairly-traded products with environmentally friendly or no packaging. Recycling or re-using is also a good principle to keep in mind when considering Christmas gifts.
The main aim of the campaign is not to save money (although that can be a side benefit), nor to slow down the pace of Christmas (although that can be another side benefit). It is to challenge our over-consumptive lifestyle and how it affects global disparities and the earth.
Enns says, “Buy Nothing Christmas is an experiment. I’m curious to see what happens. I think it’s a great way to challenge our own consumer mindset, to put our faith into action, to offer a prophetic ‘no’ to unfettered free-market consumer capitalism, and an excellent way to generate some good dinner-table discussions on the topic of economics, politics, religion and what we’re not getting each other for Christmas.”
Brace yourself. It’s time to go Christmas shopping again. But wait, does it have to be this way? While some bravely enter the fray of crowded parking lots and ringing registers, others are saying “no” to the whole shopping thing and finding ways to revive the original meaning of Christmas giving. In fact, in a recent Ipsos Reid survey conducted on behalf of World Vision, 84 percent of Canadians said they would rather have a holiday gift given to a charity in their name than receive more socks or sweaters.
There is even an organization encouraging us to have a “Buy Nothing Christmas.” It a national initiative started by Mennonites “but open to everyone with a thirst for change and a desire for action.” Co-founder Aiden Enns of Winnipeg says, “When I was working at Adbusters magazine back in 2001, I noticed how successful the Buy Nothing Day campaign was, especially in North America and the UK.” “What a shame that it’s only one day, I thought,” says Enns. So he decided to inject a spirit of radical simplicity into the whole Christmas season…and Buy Nothing Christmas was born.
His first act was to gather a few of his Mennonite friends, pass the hat and purchase a full-page ad in their national church magazine. “If you think Christmas has gotten too commercialized, here’s your chance to do nothing about it,” the ad read. Then the group of volunteers took the message to the broader public and launched a website to spread the word.
It’s not that Enns and his group are against giving things at Christmas. “Gift-giving is important,” he says. “It’s a profound action, an important glue that keeps communities strong, people less individualistic. But this gift-giving impulse has been exploited by consumer capitalism and a market that preys upon our appetite for wasteful gadgets and soon-obsolete fashions.” Gift-giving shows affection, thoughtfulness and love, he says. “While gift-giving is a good thing to do at Christmas, that doesn’t mean we have to go overboard.”
Buy Nothing Christmas suggests that, instead of buying a pile of glitzy presents, give a personal gift. That could involve giving someone a gift of your own artwork, a collection of meaningful photos, a collection of favorite family recipes, a shared trip to a movie, a coupon for babysitting to new parents, a charitable donation in the giftee’s name, etc.
When you do buy things, Enns encourages you to remember principles like buying locally-produced, fairly-traded products with environmentally friendly or no packaging. Recycling or re-using is also a good principle to keep in mind when considering Christmas gifts.
The main aim of the campaign is not to save money (although that can be a side benefit), nor to slow down the pace of Christmas (although that can be another side benefit). It is to challenge our over-consumptive lifestyle and how it affects global disparities and the earth.
Enns says, “Buy Nothing Christmas is an experiment. I’m curious to see what happens. I think it’s a great way to challenge our own consumer mindset, to put our faith into action, to offer a prophetic ‘no’ to unfettered free-market consumer capitalism, and an excellent way to generate some good dinner-table discussions on the topic of economics, politics, religion and what we’re not getting each other for Christmas.”
Question for you all,....if everyone stopped buying extra things....do you think that would be good?
Theres no time like the present
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,090
I rent a bedroom, drive a 4 cy. car, recycle everything, I got an old tv that is deeper than wide, I am oldschool, mostly I dont go anywhere unless I have to! I dont shop for things I dont need, etc.
I dont have any debt and I dont take anything fromt the govt. ! OH and Im a conservative! LOL
Just curious, what does being a conservative have to do with how you live?
By conservative do you mean: " tending to conserve; preservation." If so, I say :thumbup:
If you mean: "Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change," then you might want to look at that more closely because traditional values include raping and pillaging the earth and if that doesn't change we're toast.
Pretty much the same. Other than basics, I most buy used stuff and even then mostly used books and records. Unfortunately neither I nor anyone I know lives in a truly sustainable manner. Not one single soul. So what to do? I'm for lowering the population, educating, living lighter and having fun while we're at it.
Hey Brian I appreciate your passion for the earth and the enviroment. I have expressed in the past that one thing i see is conservatives being much more responsible in many ways than liberals. Sure there are liberals who drive prius's and conservatives who drive big trucks, but mainly those are stereotypes. I see liberals consuming and spending more than conservatives and vice versa. Just because one claims to care about the enviroment doesnt necessarily make them better than a conservative who claims the same. I do see people that are liberal (carefree) consuming more believe it or not. It comes with that attitude. Occupy movment is proof, it consumes, costs and dirties all the cities money, resources, etc. I seen it, been there done that!
You are for lowering the population? Eugenicist huh? Well, think about this.....if everyone lived a more conservative and moral thinking when they are in their teens, if they also lived a more Christ-like life, the population would be way less! I got teen cousins who like to do drugs, have sex, have kids, collect welfare and get Social Security Dissability before they are 35 cause they are so messed up on drugs! My point, if everyone stayed sober, worked hard, waited until they got married to have two children, the worlds population would be more balanced, healthy, sustained,etc. So the moral of the story....if everyone would have lived a bible-like life since the year 0, the worlds population and the health of our population would have been much better off, including the earths request of how we reproduce and take care of her!
Also, I see bible-living people take care of this planet more so than carefree liberals, socialists, communists, etc.! Just a thought! YOU?
"Hey Brian I appreciate your passion for the earth and the enviroment."
Thanks but it just seems like the sensible, sane thing to do, not heroic or vainglorious.
"I do see people that are liberal (carefree)". Oh, I really really really really wish I were liberal!
"Eugenicist": the science of improving a breed or species through the careful selection of parents.
No, not my thing. If it were, I would have had a ton of kids!
"a bible-like life": I've read the entire Bible. It's full of lust and violence and control. Mostly not my thing.
"if everyone stayed sober, worked hard, waited until they got married to have two children, the worlds population would be more balanced, healthy, sustained,etc."
The vast majority of tribal/non-industrial societies both current (what few are left) and historic knew how to have a good time, had lots of leisure and are the only cultures that have ever lived sustainably. This is easily verified by a study of tribalism. Not that all were perfect, but most were much saner, sustainable and balanced with nature than industrial society by a lone, long stretch.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
If people want to wait outside a store for however long they want to do it I see no problem with that.
I think he's more getting at what it may or may not say about the people who are willing to stand outside the store for that long. Sure they should have the freedom to do as they wish, but why is it that important to camp out just for the opportunity to buy more stuff? What does that say about our values as a culture?
And yes, we 10c members are complicit too. (see: overpriced backpacks).
I would say what does it say for people who sit behind keyboards on a random chat board commenting on people standing in lines to buy stuff? What's actually more productive? What values are those in the grand scheme of life?
Again if someone wants to spend their time in a line somewhere so be it. Just like if someone wants to spend their time sitting in a park feeding pigeons. Is that time better spent or do they have better values?
Ok, but you impliedly raised the point that people should have the freedom to stand in line for hours if they want, which I think we all agree on. I replied that I think the point of his post was more that whether or not they have the freedom to do something, is it a good aspect of our shared Americo-Canadish (just made that phrase up on the spot) culture that people will willingly stand in line hours to buy more things? I'm not saying it is or it isn't a good thing, but only pointing out that I think people are missing the point of his post. It's not about the freedom to do something, but rather the merits of that something.
As an example of why its worth considering: my wife volunteers her time at work (yes, volunteers, she doesn't get paid extra for it) to organize the charities program (which encourages fractional payroll deductions for charities like United Way, local foodshelfs, Red Cross etc). You would not believe the lack of interest people have in donating. It might be due to a poor economy, but my guess is plenty of people who don't tend to donate still make plenty of time for Black Friday, shopping etc. Personally, I have moral concerns for a population that has no time for charity, donation or that gives nothing of themselves except when it serves their own self-interest.
Simply pointing out that discussing this on an internet messageboard not be "productive" (if posting on a messageboard means you are "unproductive," there are a lot of worthless jerks in the 10c, yours truly included ) doesn't really contribute to the discussion. So what if internet posting is unproductive? That doesn't make the issue at hand any more or less important, valuable, valueless etc.
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
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2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1 2024-08-31 Wrigley 2 2024-09-15 Fenway 1 2024-09-27 Ohana 1 2024-09-29 Ohana 2
Brace yourself. It’s time to go Christmas shopping again. But wait, does it have to be this way? While some bravely enter the fray of crowded parking lots and ringing registers, others are saying “no” to the whole shopping thing and finding ways to revive the original meaning of Christmas giving. In fact, in a recent Ipsos Reid survey conducted on behalf of World Vision, 84 percent of Canadians said they would rather have a holiday gift given to a charity in their name than receive more socks or sweaters.
There is even an organization encouraging us to have a “Buy Nothing Christmas.” It a national initiative started by Mennonites “but open to everyone with a thirst for change and a desire for action.” Co-founder Aiden Enns of Winnipeg says, “When I was working at Adbusters magazine back in 2001, I noticed how successful the Buy Nothing Day campaign was, especially in North America and the UK.” “What a shame that it’s only one day, I thought,” says Enns. So he decided to inject a spirit of radical simplicity into the whole Christmas season…and Buy Nothing Christmas was born.
His first act was to gather a few of his Mennonite friends, pass the hat and purchase a full-page ad in their national church magazine. “If you think Christmas has gotten too commercialized, here’s your chance to do nothing about it,” the ad read. Then the group of volunteers took the message to the broader public and launched a website to spread the word.
It’s not that Enns and his group are against giving things at Christmas. “Gift-giving is important,” he says. “It’s a profound action, an important glue that keeps communities strong, people less individualistic. But this gift-giving impulse has been exploited by consumer capitalism and a market that preys upon our appetite for wasteful gadgets and soon-obsolete fashions.” Gift-giving shows affection, thoughtfulness and love, he says. “While gift-giving is a good thing to do at Christmas, that doesn’t mean we have to go overboard.”
Buy Nothing Christmas suggests that, instead of buying a pile of glitzy presents, give a personal gift. That could involve giving someone a gift of your own artwork, a collection of meaningful photos, a collection of favorite family recipes, a shared trip to a movie, a coupon for babysitting to new parents, a charitable donation in the giftee’s name, etc.
When you do buy things, Enns encourages you to remember principles like buying locally-produced, fairly-traded products with environmentally friendly or no packaging. Recycling or re-using is also a good principle to keep in mind when considering Christmas gifts.
The main aim of the campaign is not to save money (although that can be a side benefit), nor to slow down the pace of Christmas (although that can be another side benefit). It is to challenge our over-consumptive lifestyle and how it affects global disparities and the earth.
Enns says, “Buy Nothing Christmas is an experiment. I’m curious to see what happens. I think it’s a great way to challenge our own consumer mindset, to put our faith into action, to offer a prophetic ‘no’ to unfettered free-market consumer capitalism, and an excellent way to generate some good dinner-table discussions on the topic of economics, politics, religion and what we’re not getting each other for Christmas.”
LOVE this. Thanks for sharing stuckinline! I do everything I can to avoid the need to buy another gift of crap for anyone and to make it smaller and more meaningful.
HEY HUGHEY! What do you do to reduce your consumerism? Cause its all relative....for the most part...
I mean an Occupy campout requires more consumerism in a sense that all the security detail, gas, resources, etc. costs the taxpayers and the city more money than a peaceful line of money spenders at an IKEA. It consumes much more resources to suck up tax dollars to host an OCCUPY event for sure! Just wondering your ways to reduce your consumerism?
I rent a bedroom, drive a 4 cy. car, recycle everything, I got an old tv that is deeper than wide, I am oldschool, mostly I dont go anywhere unless I have to! I dont shop for things I dont need, etc.
I dont have any debt and I dont take anything fromt the govt. ! OH and Im a conservative! LOL
YOU?
I don't need to reduce my consumerism. I don't wait in line for hours for a "thing". to me that's just materialistic and shallow.
I don't come on here and cry if I missed out on a rare item that santos posted in the mid afternoon while I was at work. who cares. I'm actually selling most of my unused items (including PJ posters and other things) that I have realized over time don't do anything for me. I don't need a trophy of a show I went to on my wall.
But I'm not judging those who do. Some people get joy out of these things. I just personally do not any more. It's my personal choice, as it is theirs.
Occupy was a movement that was made to bring awareness. Does any group of people anywhere for any reason breed consumption? of course it does. that's not the point. people eat, sleep, drink, and shit wherever they go. they HAVE to. and they can't bring their own cows and pigs with them, so they have to buy stuff. unfortunately, I was quite saddened to hear about all the trash that some of the groups (at least in my city) left behind. totally undermined their message and credibility.
I'm also not judging those who buy stuff. That's part of being human. I just can't for the life of me understand the need to stand in line, and my main point was, FORCING YOUR CHILDREN TO WAIT IN LINE WITH YOU, for something you can get next week. That's my issue. Go buy the fucking store out if you want to. But why do you need to stand in the cold to be the first one to have it? it just reminds me of the kid with parents who had more money who would come to school with the newest big toy to show off to his friends. I always thought that was kind of pathetic.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
HEY HUGHEY! What do you do to reduce your consumerism? Cause its all relative....for the most part...
I mean an Occupy campout requires more consumerism in a sense that all the security detail, gas, resources, etc. costs the taxpayers and the city more money than a peaceful line of money spenders at an IKEA. It consumes much more resources to suck up tax dollars to host an OCCUPY event for sure! Just wondering your ways to reduce your consumerism?
I rent a bedroom, drive a 4 cy. car, recycle everything, I got an old tv that is deeper than wide, I am oldschool, mostly I dont go anywhere unless I have to! I dont shop for things I dont need, etc.
I dont have any debt and I dont take anything fromt the govt. ! OH and Im a conservative! LOL
YOU?
I don't need to reduce my consumerism. I don't wait in line for hours for a "thing". to me that's just materialistic and shallow.
I don't come on here and cry if I missed out on a rare item that santos posted in the mid afternoon while I was at work. who cares. I'm actually selling most of my unused items (including PJ posters and other things) that I have realized over time don't do anything for me. I don't need a trophy of a show I went to on my wall.
But I'm not judging those who do. Some people get joy out of these things. I just personally do not any more. It's my personal choice, as it is theirs.
Occupy was a movement that was made to bring awareness. Does any group of people anywhere for any reason breed consumption? of course it does. that's not the point. people eat, sleep, drink, and shit wherever they go. they HAVE to. and they can't bring their own cows and pigs with them, so they have to buy stuff. unfortunately, I was quite saddened to hear about all the trash that some of the groups (at least in my city) left behind. totally undermined their message and credibility.
I'm also not judging those who buy stuff. That's part of being human. I just can't for the life of me understand the need to stand in line, and my main point was, FORCING YOUR CHILDREN TO WAIT IN LINE WITH YOU, for something you can get next week. That's my issue. Go buy the fucking store out if you want to. But why do you need to stand in the cold to be the first one to have it? it just reminds me of the kid with parents who had more money who would come to school with the newest big toy to show off to his friends. I always thought that was kind of pathetic.
LOL it is pathetic! I have never done a BLACK FRIDAY nor will I ever. I dont go Christmas shopping and I certainly will never have that mindset. I have cut back on my consumerism for sure and will always continue to do so in smart ways. This past year, I grew a huge garden and worked hard to grow alot of veggies from heirloom seeds! I took my knowledge from the past gardens I used to have, and turned it into a great big veggie garden! So now I will also change my water containers and not purchase cases of plastic bottles. We can all do more....for sure
Theres no time like the present
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
If it was a rare PJ item... front row seats, a meet and greet chance
PJ fans would camp out for days. And the rest of the world think them crazy.
I think what is out of control is finding fault with what other people do in their lives.
But we are all connected in this life, even if we choose to ignore that what you (or I) do in our lives does (or doesn't) effect others. I think that what is out of control is this insulated, isolated mentality that so many have today that we can continue to consume and consume and consume with little or no long term effect.
So we shouldn't consume PJ?
I mean really for me consumerism is one example of the least of our problems.
It is strange to me that people stay incredibly connected via twitter, Facebook, internet,
PJ website yet seem to do so for selfish reasons, I bring this up as you mention
insulated, isolated mentality.
I wondered reading this, what age group mostly arrived to camp out at Ikea.
I'd like to take a wild guess and say it was the third decade of life.
Materialism and consumerism can take a back seat when mortality sets in,
somehow ya just don't give a flying F about the Joneses anymore,
it's actually quite freeing.
If it was a rare PJ item... front row seats, a meet and greet chance
PJ fans would camp out for days. And the rest of the world think them crazy.
I think what is out of control is finding fault with what other people do in their lives.
But we are all connected in this life, even if we choose to ignore that what you (or I) do in our lives does (or doesn't) effect others. I think that what is out of control is this insulated, isolated mentality that so many have today that we can continue to consume and consume and consume with little or no long term effect.
So we shouldn't consume PJ?
I mean really for me consumerism is one example of the least of our problems.
It is strange to me that people stay incredibly connected via twitter, Facebook, internet,
PJ website yet seem to do so for selfish reasons, I bring this up as you mention
insulated, isolated mentality.
I wondered reading this, what age group mostly arrived to camp out at Ikea.
I'd like to take a wild guess and say it was the third decade of life.
Materialism and consumerism can take a back seat when mortality sets in,
somehow ya just don't give a flying F about the Joneses anymore,
it's actually quite freeing.
For me, consumerism is at the heart of our problems as it idicates a deep belief in capitalsim which means we strongly believe in individualism. I think we do try to stay connected as you mentioned via PJ, Twitter, etc. because we are missing that close connection in our lives. Not to say we don't have those connections in our real life but maybe not like we want. I think consumerism and capitalism and individualism are not the best way for us to live whereas having a collective, communal mentality is the way humans have lived for most of our 3 million years here on earth which is why I think we seek out these connections, even on the internet with people we don't know. For me, I believed that many PJ fans would be like minded and many of them are which does fulfill a need, albeit a selfish need, for me.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
For me, consumerism is at the heart of our problems as it idicates a deep belief in capitalsim which means we strongly believe in individualism. I think we do try to stay connected as you mentioned via PJ, Twitter, etc. because we are missing that close connection in our lives. Not to say we don't have those connections in our real life but maybe not like we want. I think consumerism and capitalism and individualism are not the best way for us to live whereas having a collective, communal mentality is the way humans have lived for most of our 3 million years here on earth which is why I think we seek out these connections, even on the internet with people we don't know. For me, I believed that many PJ fans would be like minded and many of them are which does fulfill a need, albeit a selfish need, for me.
Being in my late 30's, my wife and I no longer get together with friends as often as we used to. Almost never, actually, with 2 young daughters and limited access to babysitters and with how busy everyone is. This leads to fewer conversations with others about world events, things we enjoy, etc. So this place fills part of that void for me. And I do learn a lot from AMT that I wouldn't otherwise learn from friends, as not many of my close circle are very well versed in world affairs (as I don't think it interests them), and neither am I compared to most here, but it does interest me, so I like to come here to learn a thing or two I wouldn't otherwise through regular socializing.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Comments
Piece of CRAP!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nC2cQvwg0N4
I think he's more getting at what it may or may not say about the people who are willing to stand outside the store for that long. Sure they should have the freedom to do as they wish, but why is it that important to camp out just for the opportunity to buy more stuff? What does that say about our values as a culture?
And yes, we 10c members are complicit too. (see: overpriced backpacks).
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"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
The gentleman from Minnesota raises a good point!
Maybe I am too idealisitc, but imagine if everyone who waited in line instead opted to do 8 hours of charity work!
I wonder how many people didn't vote in the recent election because they didn't want to wait in line for 30 minutes?
:thumbup:
As an added bonus, charity work is great for ones outlook on life!
Slightly off topic... but the Patagonia Refugio pack is $85.00 and similar to competative packs by The North Face.
http://www.rockymountaintrail.com/detail.aspx?pid=100121&&ocid=441578&coid=338110&utm_medium=DataFeed&utm_source=Pricegrabber&utm_content=PatagoniaRefugio_Pack_28LBlack-155
...
About the same price as the PJ20 Pack (same Model).
It becomes over priced when the inventory is gone.
...
But, I do agree with you assessment of our being a culture of buying shit.
Hail, Hail!!!
and, when mandated by the court system, it helps some people avoid jail time! :?
As a fellow lumberjack, I got to spread the wealth.
And judging by your avatar, I believe we my have rubbed elbows at some point in time.
Mr. Olav chimed in with a fatalistic view that I would tag on here cept I'm still post-challenged!
I would say what does it say for people who sit behind keyboards on a random chat board commenting on people standing in lines to buy stuff? What's actually more productive? What values are those in the grand scheme of life?
Again if someone wants to spend their time in a line somewhere so be it. Just like if someone wants to spend their time sitting in a park feeding pigeons. Is that time better spent or do they have better values?
Emoticon
Or volunteer work...
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
I mean an Occupy campout requires more consumerism in a sense that all the security detail, gas, resources, etc. costs the taxpayers and the city more money than a peaceful line of money spenders at an IKEA. It consumes much more resources to suck up tax dollars to host an OCCUPY event for sure! Just wondering your ways to reduce your consumerism?
I rent a bedroom, drive a 4 cy. car, recycle everything, I got an old tv that is deeper than wide, I am oldschool, mostly I dont go anywhere unless I have to! I dont shop for things I dont need, etc.
I dont have any debt and I dont take anything fromt the govt. ! OH and Im a conservative! LOL
YOU?
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
Just curious, what does being a conservative have to do with how you live?
By conservative do you mean: " tending to conserve; preservation." If so, I say :thumbup:
If you mean: "Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change," then you might want to look at that more closely because traditional values include raping and pillaging the earth and if that doesn't change we're toast.
Pretty much the same. Other than basics, I most buy used stuff and even then mostly used books and records. Unfortunately neither I nor anyone I know lives in a truly sustainable manner. Not one single soul. So what to do? I'm for lowering the population, educating, living lighter and having fun while we're at it.
PJ fans would camp out for days. And the rest of the world think them crazy.
I think what is out of control is finding fault with what other people do in their lives.
But we are all connected in this life, even if we choose to ignore that what you (or I) do in our lives does (or doesn't) effect others. I think that what is out of control is this insulated, isolated mentality that so many have today that we can continue to consume and consume and consume with little or no long term effect.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Hey Brian I appreciate your passion for the earth and the enviroment. I have expressed in the past that one thing i see is conservatives being much more responsible in many ways than liberals. Sure there are liberals who drive prius's and conservatives who drive big trucks, but mainly those are stereotypes. I see liberals consuming and spending more than conservatives and vice versa. Just because one claims to care about the enviroment doesnt necessarily make them better than a conservative who claims the same. I do see people that are liberal (carefree) consuming more believe it or not. It comes with that attitude. Occupy movment is proof, it consumes, costs and dirties all the cities money, resources, etc. I seen it, been there done that!
You are for lowering the population? Eugenicist huh? Well, think about this.....if everyone lived a more conservative and moral thinking when they are in their teens, if they also lived a more Christ-like life, the population would be way less! I got teen cousins who like to do drugs, have sex, have kids, collect welfare and get Social Security Dissability before they are 35 cause they are so messed up on drugs! My point, if everyone stayed sober, worked hard, waited until they got married to have two children, the worlds population would be more balanced, healthy, sustained,etc. So the moral of the story....if everyone would have lived a bible-like life since the year 0, the worlds population and the health of our population would have been much better off, including the earths request of how we reproduce and take care of her!
Also, I see bible-living people take care of this planet more so than carefree liberals, socialists, communists, etc.! Just a thought! YOU?
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
raping and pillaging the earth happens in Brazil, China, Korea, Japan, Denmark and Russia and elsewhere, so you think American traditional values did that, or do you think human evolution and advancement did that? Cause I am pretty sure that many things would still exist, even without America altogether, such as WAR, population overgrowth, famine, starvation, dictatorships, cutting down trees, raping mother earth, etc. All that would still be going on without the good ol USA
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
http://www.naturallifemagazine.com/0612/buynothing.htm
Brace yourself. It’s time to go Christmas shopping again. But wait, does it have to be this way? While some bravely enter the fray of crowded parking lots and ringing registers, others are saying “no” to the whole shopping thing and finding ways to revive the original meaning of Christmas giving. In fact, in a recent Ipsos Reid survey conducted on behalf of World Vision, 84 percent of Canadians said they would rather have a holiday gift given to a charity in their name than receive more socks or sweaters.
There is even an organization encouraging us to have a “Buy Nothing Christmas.” It a national initiative started by Mennonites “but open to everyone with a thirst for change and a desire for action.” Co-founder Aiden Enns of Winnipeg says, “When I was working at Adbusters magazine back in 2001, I noticed how successful the Buy Nothing Day campaign was, especially in North America and the UK.” “What a shame that it’s only one day, I thought,” says Enns. So he decided to inject a spirit of radical simplicity into the whole Christmas season…and Buy Nothing Christmas was born.
His first act was to gather a few of his Mennonite friends, pass the hat and purchase a full-page ad in their national church magazine. “If you think Christmas has gotten too commercialized, here’s your chance to do nothing about it,” the ad read. Then the group of volunteers took the message to the broader public and launched a website to spread the word.
It’s not that Enns and his group are against giving things at Christmas. “Gift-giving is important,” he says. “It’s a profound action, an important glue that keeps communities strong, people less individualistic. But this gift-giving impulse has been exploited by consumer capitalism and a market that preys upon our appetite for wasteful gadgets and soon-obsolete fashions.” Gift-giving shows affection, thoughtfulness and love, he says. “While gift-giving is a good thing to do at Christmas, that doesn’t mean we have to go overboard.”
Buy Nothing Christmas suggests that, instead of buying a pile of glitzy presents, give a personal gift. That could involve giving someone a gift of your own artwork, a collection of meaningful photos, a collection of favorite family recipes, a shared trip to a movie, a coupon for babysitting to new parents, a charitable donation in the giftee’s name, etc.
When you do buy things, Enns encourages you to remember principles like buying locally-produced, fairly-traded products with environmentally friendly or no packaging. Recycling or re-using is also a good principle to keep in mind when considering Christmas gifts.
The main aim of the campaign is not to save money (although that can be a side benefit), nor to slow down the pace of Christmas (although that can be another side benefit). It is to challenge our over-consumptive lifestyle and how it affects global disparities and the earth.
Enns says, “Buy Nothing Christmas is an experiment. I’m curious to see what happens. I think it’s a great way to challenge our own consumer mindset, to put our faith into action, to offer a prophetic ‘no’ to unfettered free-market consumer capitalism, and an excellent way to generate some good dinner-table discussions on the topic of economics, politics, religion and what we’re not getting each other for Christmas.”
Question for you all,....if everyone stopped buying extra things....do you think that would be good?
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
"Hey Brian I appreciate your passion for the earth and the enviroment."
Thanks but it just seems like the sensible, sane thing to do, not heroic or vainglorious.
"I do see people that are liberal (carefree)". Oh, I really really really really wish I were liberal!
"Eugenicist": the science of improving a breed or species through the careful selection of parents.
No, not my thing. If it were, I would have had a ton of kids!
"a bible-like life": I've read the entire Bible. It's full of lust and violence and control. Mostly not my thing.
"if everyone stayed sober, worked hard, waited until they got married to have two children, the worlds population would be more balanced, healthy, sustained,etc."
The vast majority of tribal/non-industrial societies both current (what few are left) and historic knew how to have a good time, had lots of leisure and are the only cultures that have ever lived sustainably. This is easily verified by a study of tribalism. Not that all were perfect, but most were much saner, sustainable and balanced with nature than industrial society by a lone, long stretch.
Ok, but you impliedly raised the point that people should have the freedom to stand in line for hours if they want, which I think we all agree on. I replied that I think the point of his post was more that whether or not they have the freedom to do something, is it a good aspect of our shared Americo-Canadish (just made that phrase up on the spot) culture that people will willingly stand in line hours to buy more things? I'm not saying it is or it isn't a good thing, but only pointing out that I think people are missing the point of his post. It's not about the freedom to do something, but rather the merits of that something.
As an example of why its worth considering: my wife volunteers her time at work (yes, volunteers, she doesn't get paid extra for it) to organize the charities program (which encourages fractional payroll deductions for charities like United Way, local foodshelfs, Red Cross etc). You would not believe the lack of interest people have in donating. It might be due to a poor economy, but my guess is plenty of people who don't tend to donate still make plenty of time for Black Friday, shopping etc. Personally, I have moral concerns for a population that has no time for charity, donation or that gives nothing of themselves except when it serves their own self-interest.
Simply pointing out that discussing this on an internet messageboard not be "productive" (if posting on a messageboard means you are "unproductive," there are a lot of worthless jerks in the 10c, yours truly included
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LOVE this. Thanks for sharing stuckinline! I do everything I can to avoid the need to buy another gift of crap for anyone and to make it smaller and more meaningful.
I don't need to reduce my consumerism. I don't wait in line for hours for a "thing". to me that's just materialistic and shallow.
I don't come on here and cry if I missed out on a rare item that santos posted in the mid afternoon while I was at work. who cares. I'm actually selling most of my unused items (including PJ posters and other things) that I have realized over time don't do anything for me. I don't need a trophy of a show I went to on my wall.
But I'm not judging those who do. Some people get joy out of these things. I just personally do not any more. It's my personal choice, as it is theirs.
Occupy was a movement that was made to bring awareness. Does any group of people anywhere for any reason breed consumption? of course it does. that's not the point. people eat, sleep, drink, and shit wherever they go. they HAVE to. and they can't bring their own cows and pigs with them, so they have to buy stuff. unfortunately, I was quite saddened to hear about all the trash that some of the groups (at least in my city) left behind. totally undermined their message and credibility.
I'm also not judging those who buy stuff. That's part of being human. I just can't for the life of me understand the need to stand in line, and my main point was, FORCING YOUR CHILDREN TO WAIT IN LINE WITH YOU, for something you can get next week. That's my issue. Go buy the fucking store out if you want to. But why do you need to stand in the cold to be the first one to have it? it just reminds me of the kid with parents who had more money who would come to school with the newest big toy to show off to his friends. I always thought that was kind of pathetic.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
LOL it is pathetic! I have never done a BLACK FRIDAY nor will I ever. I dont go Christmas shopping and I certainly will never have that mindset. I have cut back on my consumerism for sure and will always continue to do so in smart ways. This past year, I grew a huge garden and worked hard to grow alot of veggies from heirloom seeds! I took my knowledge from the past gardens I used to have,
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
I mean really for me consumerism is one example of the least of our problems.
It is strange to me that people stay incredibly connected via twitter, Facebook, internet,
PJ website
insulated, isolated mentality.
I wondered reading this, what age group mostly arrived to camp out at Ikea.
I'd like to take a wild guess and say it was the third decade of life.
Materialism and consumerism can take a back seat when mortality sets in,
somehow ya just don't give a flying F about the Joneses anymore,
it's actually quite freeing.
For me, consumerism is at the heart of our problems as it idicates a deep belief in capitalsim which means we strongly believe in individualism. I think we do try to stay connected as you mentioned via PJ, Twitter, etc. because we are missing that close connection in our lives. Not to say we don't have those connections in our real life but maybe not like we want. I think consumerism and capitalism and individualism are not the best way for us to live whereas having a collective, communal mentality is the way humans have lived for most of our 3 million years here on earth which is why I think we seek out these connections, even on the internet with people we don't know. For me, I believed that many PJ fans would be like minded and many of them are which does fulfill a need, albeit a selfish need, for me.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Being in my late 30's, my wife and I no longer get together with friends as often as we used to. Almost never, actually, with 2 young daughters and limited access to babysitters and with how busy everyone is. This leads to fewer conversations with others about world events, things we enjoy, etc. So this place fills part of that void for me. And I do learn a lot from AMT that I wouldn't otherwise learn from friends, as not many of my close circle are very well versed in world affairs (as I don't think it interests them), and neither am I compared to most here, but it does interest me, so I like to come here to learn a thing or two I wouldn't otherwise through regular socializing.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014