"Feel" vs "Believe"

catefrances

brianlux wrote:

Good call- you did say "restless".
I feel I've overtaxed my brain today and believe very tired from doing so.

you believe you are very tired... or you know you are. :P there is a difference between believing and knowing.

brianlux

catefrances wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Good call- you did say "restless".
I feel I've overtaxed my brain today and believe very tired from doing so.

you believe you are very tired... or you know you are. :P there is a difference between believing and knowing.

I fool so feelish!

brianlux

Who Princess wrote:

brianlux wrote:

The other point I made initially related to the psychology of saying something like "You make me feel bad when you say my green hair looks funny", or "That book getting lost made me feel stupid." When we say these things we are doing one or both of two things- either giving away our personal power or avoiding being responsible for our own actions. I can't make you feel anything other than physical pain. You might be more apt to have your feelings hurt if I poke fun at your green hair but I can't make you feel hurt. You let that happen. The book didn't make you feel stupid because you lost it. Either you made yourself feel stupid for losing it or it was stolen in which case there was no reason for feeling stupid in the first place. So the message is this- don't give your power away and be responsible for your own thoughts and actions.

Good point. For many years I've been a health educator and I currently teach workshops in managing diabetes and chronic illnesses. The curriculum was developed at Stanford Medical School and covers a great range of tools that people can use to deal with their chronic conditions. One of the tools we talk about is communication--with your family, your friends, your health care team. We talk about the differences between "I" and "you" messages. "You" messages are the kind you posted: "You hurt me when you make fun of my green hair." An "I" message would be "I feel hurt that you made fun of my hair" or "When you make fun of my hair, I feel hurt." The differences don't seem that great but "you" messages tend to be blaming and confrontational while "I" messages allow you to express yourself honestly while trying to resolve the problem.

These concepts have been around for a long time and I don't know where they originated. But for effective communication, I like them a lot.

brianlux wrote:

Edit: My apologies if this sounds like a rant or a lecture. It's not meant to be. I just think good communication is important. Remember- and this is important- I can be as full of shit and as stupid as the next guy. :P

So I can I. :oops:
I also specialize in being tacky. :P

Oh my, yes, the I and you messages. I keep working on that one. And working on it. And working on it.

BinauralJam

Brian there are certain people who nobody Believes are ever attacking, you i Feel are one of them. :ugeek:

brianlux

BinauralJam wrote:

Brian there are certain people who nobody Believe are ever attacking you i Feel are one of them.

...well stated... I think...

BinauralJam

brianlux wrote:

BinauralJam wrote:

Brian there are certain people who nobody Believe are ever attacking you i Feel are one of them.

...well stated... I think...

welcome to my world :crazy: :crazy:

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Who Princess wrote:

Good point. For many years I've been a health educator and I currently teach workshops in managing diabetes and chronic illnesses. The curriculum was developed at Stanford Medical School and covers a great range of tools that people can use to deal with their chronic conditions. One of the tools we talk about is communication--with your family, your friends, your health care team. We talk about the differences between "I" and "you" messages. "You" messages are the kind you posted: "You hurt me when you make fun of my green hair." An "I" message would be "I feel hurt that you made fun of my hair" or "When you make fun of my hair, I feel hurt." The differences don't seem that great but "you" messages tend to be blaming and confrontational while "I" messages allow you to express yourself honestly while trying to resolve the problem.

These concepts have been around for a long time and I don't know where they originated. But for effective communication, I like them a lot.

I've been married for 8 years. one thing that I can't stand, and that my wife can't grasp, is the difference between this:

"I'm sorry I hurt your feelings"
"I'm sorry your feelings got hurt"

The first one is an apology. The second one takes no ownership of the cause and effect of the person's feelings who got hurt. I know it may sound dumb, but it drives me nuts, as I feel as though I have never actually gotten a real apology from her any time she has fucked up.

if I was to accidentally shoot someone, I wouldn't say "I'm sorry you got shot", cause that could mean that anyone shot that person. I'd say "fuck man, I'm so sorry I shot you!".

She looks at me like I'm crazy. I just want the apology, dammit!

BinauralJam

Hugh, are you implying you want your wife to apologize when she's wrong? cause that is not how marriage works.

pandora

BinauralJam wrote:

Hugh, are you implying you want your wife to apologize when she's wrong? cause that is not how marriage works.

I've learned how to say sorry ... now I can't stop! :P

Hugh Freaking Dillon

BinauralJam wrote:

Hugh, are you implying you want your wife to apologize when she's wrong? cause that is not how marriage works.

redrock

Who Princess wrote:

My only disappointment is that people seem to take so little interest in language. But that's because it fascinates me. We really limit our options to communicate if we limit our interest in language.

Same here. I studied the French language a long time ago and found all of this fascinating. My daughter is now studying English language (the differences in the languages studied only has to do with where one was/is living at the time of study) and I have 'rediscovered' this. From acquisition to development to how the sexes use language differently via the external influences. A very, very interesting subject.

brianlux wrote:

Edit: My apologies if this sounds like a rant or a lecture. It's not meant to be. I just think good communication is important. Remember- and this is important- I can be as full of shit and as stupid as the next guy. :P

I get you here brianlux. Following my husband's stroke which has left him with slight dysphasia (amongst other things!), I have had to learn to be very precise with my 'wording' during our conversations. There can be no room for confusion as to the meanings I am trying to convey. This really prompted me to dig deep in my brain for all the 'lost' vocabulary and I believe (yes.. believe ) it has done me a huge favour!

brianlux

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

Who Princess wrote:

Good point. For many years I've been a health educator and I currently teach workshops in managing diabetes and chronic illnesses. The curriculum was developed at Stanford Medical School and covers a great range of tools that people can use to deal with their chronic conditions. One of the tools we talk about is communication--with your family, your friends, your health care team. We talk about the differences between "I" and "you" messages. "You" messages are the kind you posted: "You hurt me when you make fun of my green hair." An "I" message would be "I feel hurt that you made fun of my hair" or "When you make fun of my hair, I feel hurt." The differences don't seem that great but "you" messages tend to be blaming and confrontational while "I" messages allow you to express yourself honestly while trying to resolve the problem.

These concepts have been around for a long time and I don't know where they originated. But for effective communication, I like them a lot.

I've been married for 8 years. one thing that I can't stand, and that my wife can't grasp, is the difference between this:

"I'm sorry I hurt your feelings"
"I'm sorry your feelings got hurt"

The first one is an apology. The second one takes no ownership of the cause and effect of the person's feelings who got hurt. I know it may sound dumb, but it drives me nuts, as I feel as though I have never actually gotten a real apology from her any time she has fucked up.

if I was to accidentally shoot someone, I wouldn't say "I'm sorry you got shot", cause that could mean that anyone shot that person. I'd say "fuck man, I'm so sorry I shot you!".

She looks at me like I'm crazy. I just want the apology, dammit!

Ouch! I've been guilty of doing that to my wife, Hugh-- saying to my wife, "I'm sorry you feel hurt" instead of saying, "I'm sorry I hurt your feelings". But I also have to say that sometimes it is her problem that she feels hurt (as in if what I say is simple truth) and sometimes it is my problem (as in sometimes I'll say something hurtful that needn't be said). I guess the difficulty is being aware of the difference and being willing to own up- either of us- to our stuff.

Also gotta say- BimauralJam nailed it!

brianlux

redrock wrote:

brianlux wrote:

Edit: My apologies if this sounds like a rant or a lecture. It's not meant to be. I just think good communication is important. Remember- and this is important- I can be as full of shit and as stupid as the next guy. :P

I get you here brianlux. Following my husband's stroke which has left him with slight dysphasia (amongst other things!), I have had to learn to be very precise with my 'wording' during our conversations. There can be no room for confusion as to the meanings I am trying to convey. This really prompted me to dig deep in my brain for all the 'lost' vocabulary and I believe (yes.. believe ) it has done me a huge favour!

Kudos to you, Redrock, for big efforts in a difficult situation. What you say here is a good reminder to me to keep my communication clear with those with whom I'm close. It's bad enough that I confuse myself sometimes.

dancepartner

Fun thread.
Yeah, 'I feel sick today' works but to easily use the word believe is another matter - at least for me.
I try to keep the word believe to mean I paid attention to how I feel about, or came to know, something;
'I passionately believe our time is now.'

For me, casual statements don't earn the use of feel and believe no matter how you dress it up; I feel an urgent and overwhelming drive to go to the store --- I wholeheartedly believe someone must commit to a store run. :?
Damn, obviously, suppose or evidently works for me for casual statements; 'Damn, time for another store run. I dibs not to go. However, if the store stall goes on long enough and things get dire, the use of feel and believe then become quite apt; 'I not only feel I'm missing 10 pounds but the scale confirms it and at this rate, I truly believe you best get off yer ass and go to the store lest you feel a chunk of ass missing yourself!

Hows that? I didn't come up with store scenario so you can't fault me for using it to divulge just how much I detest going there!

catefrances

dancepartner wrote:

... I truly believe you best get off yer ass and go to the store lest you feel a chunk of ass missing yourself!

hows this?...
you need to get off your arse and go to the store before i start eating your arse.

brianlux

catefrances wrote:

dancepartner wrote:

... I truly believe you best get off yer ass and go to the store lest you feel a chunk of ass missing yourself!

hows this?...
you need to get off your arse and go to the store before i start eating your arse.

From language to cannibalism... only here would that happen!

I once heard it said somewhere that thumbs are a delicacy!

riotgrl

I love this. One of my pet peeves about myself and others is lack of precision in language. Language is a fun and wonderful thing and certainly writing, as I am here, allows me more precision but I think that is necessary as I cannot convey other emotions or feelings because you guys cannot see me to read my body language. How do I know if someone is attacking me or agreeing with me unless we are precise in our language? I often wonder if that is why I sometimes feel misunderstood by comments I make or ones that others make as well. I wouldn't want to go back to a formalized English for speaking but using proper English in certain situations is definitely needed IMO. Of course, part of the fun of language is trying to understand what someone else means. My human geography students just began their unit on language and I always have them try to decipher regional language from different areas of the country.

What do you call a carbonated beverage? Depends on which region you are from!



And I do call all drinks Coke regardless of what type of carbonated beverage it really is

Who Princess

riotgrl wrote:

What do you call a carbonated beverage? Depends on which region you are from!



And I do call all drinks Coke regardless of what type of carbonated beverage it really is

Same here!

Typical conversation with a visiting friend:

Me: You want a Coke?
Friend: Sure.
Me: What kinda Coke you want? We've got 7 Up, Dr Pepper, Coca Cola . . .