I was debating between Obama (again) and Jill Stein but have finally decided on Stein. Obama disappointed me on his weak stance on education, GMOs, and the environment, among other issues. I feel he is pandering to the middle trying to get those middle of the road voters when I want him to be further to the left. I understand why people here are voting for him and maybe I would as well if I lived in a blue or swing state. However, being in KY, we don't apportion our electoral votes (which, by the way, should be changed but good luck with that), my vote for anyone other than the republican is a throw away vote every single time. So I decided to vote my conscience instead of the lesser of two evils. Tuesday should be interesting to say the least!
i always agree with what chomsky has said in the past, the issue isnt usually voting for the lesser of two evils, but rather the evil of two lessers. And i totally agree. For me, we have 300 million people in the U.S. So many smart, intellgent, worthy people who could be running for president. And we have Romney and Obama instead? Clearly something is very wrong. The cards are stacked in advance. The issues Romney and Obama agree on far outnumber the things they disagree on. Whoever wins, we'll continue to be involved in an illegal and immoral war, we will continue to use torture tactics and gitmo will remain open, we will continue to believe terrorism can be rooted out by guns and bombs, we will continue to carry out the same tired relationship with israel that we have always had, neither is seriously going to deal with the economic issues (obama bailed out the financial institutions that funded his campaign, Romney is fabulously wealthy) etc...
For me, its sad because i wish there were more options and choices. Its a shame Ron paul and other candidates who SEVERELY disagreed with the 2 main candidates, were never given wider press and coverage.
I voted yesterday. I was standing in line for 30 minutes listening to this old lady call obama a socialist and a muslim the whole time. Right before we walked into the booth she said something about him being born in Africa and looked at me and said "right?" I just looked at her and told her I was about to cancel out her vote.
: Good you. This sounds just like something my dad would do, love it.
I was debating between Obama (again) and Jill Stein but have finally decided on Stein. Obama disappointed me on his weak stance on education, GMOs, and the environment, among other issues. I feel he is pandering to the middle trying to get those middle of the road voters when I want him to be further to the left. I understand why people here are voting for him and maybe I would as well if I lived in a blue or swing state. However, being in KY, we don't apportion our electoral votes (which, by the way, should be changed but good luck with that), my vote for anyone other than the republican is a throw away vote every single time. So I decided to vote my conscience instead of the lesser of two evils. Tuesday should be interesting to say the least!
while i applaud you for thinking outside the 2 party system, i dont think obama is pandering. The biggest myth in his first run, was that he was progressive, left wing. He never has been. And his policies since day 1 have proven this to be true. He's a moderate at best, and a right wing democrat at worst. he's prowar, pro torture, pro drug war etc...
I dont think the answer to the problem of obama being the way he is, is to re-elect him. I had a huge disagreement with someone recently when this person suggested they were voting for obama because they felt in his 2nd term he might actually show his true colors and become the person he really is (left wing). Which is a pretty absurd thing to suggest. If anything, a vote for obama and a re-election is a reaffirming of the policies and ideas he's carried out since 2009. And i dont think if re-elected, on january 21st he'll say "gee, the people elected me to be left wing, so I'll be left wing". doesnt happen that way. Obama will never be to the left, because thats not who he is, or ever was. So dreaming of some awakening is fruitless.
And its always funny, because he's clearly well read, and knows about radical people. Bruce, Eddie, Ben Harper, Dylan, Toni Morrison and all the books he mentioned he read in DFMF. But he's clearly always felt some sort of kinship with middle of the road, moderate, rightwing democratic ideas. Which sadly are the same mealy mouthed stances the dems have always loved, from Clinton, to Kerry, to Obama.
I was debating between Obama (again) and Jill Stein but have finally decided on Stein. Obama disappointed me on his weak stance on education, GMOs, and the environment, among other issues. I feel he is pandering to the middle trying to get those middle of the road voters when I want him to be further to the left. I understand why people here are voting for him and maybe I would as well if I lived in a blue or swing state. However, being in KY, we don't apportion our electoral votes (which, by the way, should be changed but good luck with that), my vote for anyone other than the republican is a throw away vote every single time. So I decided to vote my conscience instead of the lesser of two evils. Tuesday should be interesting to say the least!
while i applaud you for thinking outside the 2 party system, i dont think obama is pandering. The biggest myth in his first run, was that he was progressive, left wing. He never has been. And his policies since day 1 have proven this to be true. He's a moderate at best, and a right wing democrat at worst. he's prowar, pro torture, pro drug war etc...
I dont think the answer to the problem of obama being the way he is, is to re-elect him. I had a huge disagreement with someone recently when this person suggested they were voting for obama because they felt in his 2nd term he might actually show his true colors and become the person he really is (left wing). Which is a pretty absurd thing to suggest. If anything, a vote for obama and a re-election is a reaffirming of the policies and ideas he's carried out since 2009. And i dont think if re-elected, on january 21st he'll say "gee, the people elected me to be left wing, so I'll be left wing". doesnt happen that way. Obama will never be to the left, because thats not who he is, or ever was. So dreaming of some awakening is fruitless.
And its always funny, because he's clearly well read, and knows about radical people. Bruce, Eddie, Ben Harper, Dylan, Toni Morrison and all the books he mentioned he read in DFMF. But he's clearly always felt some sort of kinship with middle of the road, moderate, rightwing democratic ideas. Which sadly are the same mealy mouthed stances the dems have always loved, from Clinton, to Kerry, to Obama.
Oh, I completely agree. However, I believe that he "panders" the same way every politician panders. By that I mean he reinforces his democratic beliefs by focusing on those platform talking points. For instance, supporting legal protections for same sex partners is something many Dems support and he only made it clear that he supports it in order to pander to that vote for the election.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
For instance, supporting legal protections for same sex partners is something many Dems support and he only made it clear that he supports it in order to pander to that vote for the election.
I don't think it was pandering much. I see Obama as being the most secular president that we have had in recent decades. I feel confident that I can spot a fellow agnostic.
Coming out in favor of gay marriage as a young politician in the late 1990s was something that could hold down a candidate; i.e., it would turn off voters. Obama being on the fence about the issue, like claiming Christianity, is pandering.
For instance, supporting legal protections for same sex partners is something many Dems support and he only made it clear that he supports it in order to pander to that vote for the election.
I don't think it was pandering much. I see Obama as being the most secular president that we have had in recent decades. I feel confident that I can spot a fellow agnostic.
Coming out in favor of gay marriage as a young politician in the late 1990s was something that could hold down a candidate; i.e., it would turn off voters. Obama being on the fence about the issue, like claiming Christianity, is pandering.
i wouldnt term him an agnostic, especially considering he attends church, and has on multiple occasions said he considers Jesus to be an important person. Plus, i do think its pretty accuarate to say, you have to be a person of faith to be elected in the US. I just think he isnt as up front about it as previous presidents, namely Bush, were. I dont think that means much of anything though, i think he probably considers religion and faith a private matter. But I have no doubt the guy reads his Bible often and attends church often.
For president I refuse to vote for Obama and i refuse to vote for Romney. I don't like the job Obama has done in 4 years and I have zero faith that Romney could do any better.
I don't understand how someone could be passionate about either of those guys. Ugh.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,408
For president I refuse to vote for Obama and i refuse to vote for Romney. I don't like the job Obama has done in 4 years and I have zero faith that Romney could do any better.
I don't understand how someone could be passionate about either of those guys. Ugh.
Personally, I'm not passionate about the guy I voted for. I haven't felt great about most people I've voted for most of my voting years.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
For instance, supporting legal protections for same sex partners is something many Dems support and he only made it clear that he supports it in order to pander to that vote for the election.
I don't think it was pandering much. I see Obama as being the most secular president that we have had in recent decades. I feel confident that I can spot a fellow agnostic.
Coming out in favor of gay marriage as a young politician in the late 1990s was something that could hold down a candidate; i.e., it would turn off voters. Obama being on the fence about the issue, like claiming Christianity, is pandering.
Call it what you want but at the end of the day, he has not addressed some of his campaign issues from the past 4 years which is why I am not voting for him on Tuesday. I'm not going to debate semantics over my choice of words. He has not adequately addressed issues that I believed he would and while I concede that he has not been able to do as much because of an obstructionist Congress, why choose this campaign cycle to address those issues, like gay marriage, unless he was simply trying to win votes, pander, whatever? I am glad he finally was clear about his stance on gay marriage and I support full equality for all couples but I feel like his overriding concern was not for gay couples but his reelection chances. His true feelings? Yes, I believe those are his true feelings but I want an elected official that will be honest and up front about his/her point of view which most politicians can't/won't.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
For president I refuse to vote for Obama and i refuse to vote for Romney. I don't like the job Obama has done in 4 years and I have zero faith that Romney could do any better.
I don't understand how someone could be passionate about either of those guys. Ugh.
welcome to my world and realistically the reason why 150 million people will just flat out not vote on Tuesday. They see the election for what it is, a coronation, decided long ago, and a game we the public are and will lose on.
I view this election similarly to the 68 election, Nixon and Humpreys, no matter who you voted for you still would get the status quo (more war in vietnam, both men refused to deal with real issues). Obama and Romney are the same.
For someone like me who is antiwar, and against torture, against the drug war, what choice of the 2 do I have?
As i said, the issues Obama and Romney agree on far outnumber the issues they disagree on.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
LOL my youth is long gone and i'm sure it's been quite a few elections since i've been considered a young voter (mid 90s maybe?). If anything I feel 1000% wiser for refusing to try and find the lesser evil. Neither one makes a suitable President in my opinion. I would encourage people to either find someone from another party that reflects your views or not vote at all for this section of their ballot.
They both suck badly as I think many posts have mentioned. I can't wait until all this election shit is over; so much negativity from both sides. And I'm so tired of all the politics mixing with the entertainment, this is something that definitely needs more separation.
They both suck badly as I think many posts have mentioned. I can't wait until all this election shit is over; so much negativity from both sides. And I'm so tired of all the politics mixing with the entertainment, this is something that definitely needs more separation.
Good for you- truly- for sticking to your convictions, even knowing the man has zero chance of winning...
Nor will they as long as a tremendous portion of the voters continue to vote fear instead of their hearts. For those who truly feel Pres Obama or Mitt Romney most meet what they seek in their candidate, then by all means vote that way. I can respect that, even if I think they're woefully wrong. However, to vote for Romney because you're afraid Mr. Obama will be re-elected, or the President because of Romney Fear is the true wasted vote, IMO.
For those who remember, back in '92 there was a guy named Perot who was a huge factor. I think there would have been a huge fiasco because no one would have had 270 in the the E.C., but I truly believe that Perot would have won the popular vote if people voted their hearts instead of 'the lesser of two evils'. Four years of that crazy SOB would have been worth it to break the RepuliCrat stranglehold on this country.
Please... look at the Stein, Johnson, Goode, Anderson or Supreme websites (or anyone else you find). If one of them speaks to you more than the President or Mr. Romney, then vote for them. If not, vote for one of the RepubliCrats, but at least do it for the right reason, instead of fear or hate.
Last Philly Spectrum Show - Halloween 2009
MSG 1 & 2 2010
Montreal 2011
Missoula 2012
Seattle 2013
Denver 2014
Central Park NYC 2015
Sunrise 2016
Wrigley 2 2016 Seattle 1 2018
~~~~~~~
EV NYC 2 2011
RNDM NYC 2012 TOTD SF 2016
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
They both suck badly as I think many posts have mentioned. I can't wait until all this election shit is over; so much negativity from both sides. And I'm so tired of all the politics mixing with the entertainment, this is something that definitely needs more separation.
Exactly. Thank you.
+1. I don't really think the president needs to be on The View or whatever other talk show he/they have done. I mean really. :fp:
Comments
Thank You!
For me, its sad because i wish there were more options and choices. Its a shame Ron paul and other candidates who SEVERELY disagreed with the 2 main candidates, were never given wider press and coverage.
For me, no matter who wins, the public loses.
:
while i applaud you for thinking outside the 2 party system, i dont think obama is pandering. The biggest myth in his first run, was that he was progressive, left wing. He never has been. And his policies since day 1 have proven this to be true. He's a moderate at best, and a right wing democrat at worst. he's prowar, pro torture, pro drug war etc...
I dont think the answer to the problem of obama being the way he is, is to re-elect him. I had a huge disagreement with someone recently when this person suggested they were voting for obama because they felt in his 2nd term he might actually show his true colors and become the person he really is (left wing). Which is a pretty absurd thing to suggest. If anything, a vote for obama and a re-election is a reaffirming of the policies and ideas he's carried out since 2009. And i dont think if re-elected, on january 21st he'll say "gee, the people elected me to be left wing, so I'll be left wing". doesnt happen that way. Obama will never be to the left, because thats not who he is, or ever was. So dreaming of some awakening is fruitless.
And its always funny, because he's clearly well read, and knows about radical people. Bruce, Eddie, Ben Harper, Dylan, Toni Morrison and all the books he mentioned he read in DFMF. But he's clearly always felt some sort of kinship with middle of the road, moderate, rightwing democratic ideas. Which sadly are the same mealy mouthed stances the dems have always loved, from Clinton, to Kerry, to Obama.
Oh, I completely agree. However, I believe that he "panders" the same way every politician panders. By that I mean he reinforces his democratic beliefs by focusing on those platform talking points. For instance, supporting legal protections for same sex partners is something many Dems support and he only made it clear that he supports it in order to pander to that vote for the election.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I don't think it was pandering much. I see Obama as being the most secular president that we have had in recent decades. I feel confident that I can spot a fellow agnostic.
Coming out in favor of gay marriage as a young politician in the late 1990s was something that could hold down a candidate; i.e., it would turn off voters. Obama being on the fence about the issue, like claiming Christianity, is pandering.
i wouldnt term him an agnostic, especially considering he attends church, and has on multiple occasions said he considers Jesus to be an important person. Plus, i do think its pretty accuarate to say, you have to be a person of faith to be elected in the US. I just think he isnt as up front about it as previous presidents, namely Bush, were. I dont think that means much of anything though, i think he probably considers religion and faith a private matter. But I have no doubt the guy reads his Bible often and attends church often.
I don't understand how someone could be passionate about either of those guys. Ugh.
Personally, I'm not passionate about the guy I voted for. I haven't felt great about most people I've voted for most of my voting years.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Call it what you want but at the end of the day, he has not addressed some of his campaign issues from the past 4 years which is why I am not voting for him on Tuesday. I'm not going to debate semantics over my choice of words. He has not adequately addressed issues that I believed he would and while I concede that he has not been able to do as much because of an obstructionist Congress, why choose this campaign cycle to address those issues, like gay marriage, unless he was simply trying to win votes, pander, whatever? I am glad he finally was clear about his stance on gay marriage and I support full equality for all couples but I feel like his overriding concern was not for gay couples but his reelection chances. His true feelings? Yes, I believe those are his true feelings but I want an elected official that will be honest and up front about his/her point of view which most politicians can't/won't.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
welcome to my world and realistically the reason why 150 million people will just flat out not vote on Tuesday. They see the election for what it is, a coronation, decided long ago, and a game we the public are and will lose on.
I view this election similarly to the 68 election, Nixon and Humpreys, no matter who you voted for you still would get the status quo (more war in vietnam, both men refused to deal with real issues). Obama and Romney are the same.
For someone like me who is antiwar, and against torture, against the drug war, what choice of the 2 do I have?
As i said, the issues Obama and Romney agree on far outnumber the issues they disagree on.
LOL my youth is long gone and i'm sure it's been quite a few elections since i've been considered a young voter (mid 90s maybe?). If anything I feel 1000% wiser for refusing to try and find the lesser evil. Neither one makes a suitable President in my opinion. I would encourage people to either find someone from another party that reflects your views or not vote at all for this section of their ballot.
Exactly. Thank you.
For those who remember, back in '92 there was a guy named Perot who was a huge factor. I think there would have been a huge fiasco because no one would have had 270 in the the E.C., but I truly believe that Perot would have won the popular vote if people voted their hearts instead of 'the lesser of two evils'. Four years of that crazy SOB would have been worth it to break the RepuliCrat stranglehold on this country.
Please... look at the Stein, Johnson, Goode, Anderson or Supreme websites (or anyone else you find). If one of them speaks to you more than the President or Mr. Romney, then vote for them. If not, vote for one of the RepubliCrats, but at least do it for the right reason, instead of fear or hate.
MSG 1 & 2 2010
Montreal 2011
Missoula 2012
Seattle 2013
Denver 2014
Central Park NYC 2015
Sunrise 2016
Wrigley 2 2016
Seattle 1 2018
~~~~~~~
EV NYC 2 2011
RNDM NYC 2012
TOTD SF 2016
Highlights Of Last Spectrum Show
Mike DESTROYING in Seattle 2013
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" - HST
Instagram (great concert shots of many bands): concertaholic
I've never done either. Ever.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
MSG 1 & 2 2010
Montreal 2011
Missoula 2012
Seattle 2013
Denver 2014
Central Park NYC 2015
Sunrise 2016
Wrigley 2 2016
Seattle 1 2018
~~~~~~~
EV NYC 2 2011
RNDM NYC 2012
TOTD SF 2016
Highlights Of Last Spectrum Show
Mike DESTROYING in Seattle 2013
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" - HST
Instagram (great concert shots of many bands): concertaholic
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
i don't like it, or believe we should have it. one day, one day only.
Why? That's only inhibiting people's ability to vote.
if you know you can't make it, absentee it in. otherwise show up on tuesday like the rest of us.
We fill out absentee ballots on the spot here in WI for early voting.
Exactly
I think if it was a holiday we would have even less turnout than we do now.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."