Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
(And BTW, Independent does not = free thinker, which I think is why most folks want to label themselves as such. But, whatever. I'm sure there are folks that are truly Independent. But it's less than those that claim to be.)
So what it comes down to is people labeling themselves "independent" annoys you because they're not labeling themselves according to a labeling system you made up and presumably most people don't know about (assuming you don't spend your days educating the people around you on your own personal political labeling system)? Finally! Something I can agree with!
But really, I guess I have a hard time seeing where you're coming from on this one, because Minnesota - land of Jesse Ventura - actually has a fairly large Independent party. To me, an Independent/independent means someone who supports the Independent party (locally) or someone who may lean one way or another but who on occasion considers giving their vote to a third party. Is it surprising that many independents go consistently with one party over another in a nation with an entrenched 2-party system and no real viable third party candidate in essentially forever?
I think the OP's intention was to find out if there are moderate liberals frustrated enough with Obama to vote for Romney or if there are moderate conservatives frustrated enough with their own party to vote for Obama. I'm not sure why it had to devolve into this big semantics-fight (the best kind!), unless of course, you told us all about your labeling system just as a way to dig at "free-thinking" liberals (sorry, but that's how you come off).
1998-06-30 Minneapolis
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2 2018-06-18 London 1 2018-08-18 Wrigley 1 2018-08-20 Wrigley 2 2022-09-16 Nashville 2023-08-31 St. Paul 2023-09-02 St. Paul 2023-09-05 Chicago 1 2024-08-31 Wrigley 2 2024-09-15 Fenway 1 2024-09-27 Ohana 1 2024-09-29 Ohana 2
To me, an Independent/independent means someone who supports the Independent party (locally) or someone who may lean one way or another but who on occasion considers giving their vote to a third party. Is it surprising that many independents go consistently with one party over another in a nation with an entrenched 2-party system and no real viable third party candidate in essentially forever?
That is a good point. If there were truly a lot of independent voters, someone like Gary Johnson would be in the mix. I think you need 10% in the public polls to be in the presidential debate.
We are dependent on our 2 party system. The same system that is getting a 10% public approval rating.
So less then 10% of the voting population looks outside the two choices that 90% of us can agree are royally fucking things up.
Independent here, having voted for repubs and dems in the past.
Currently disgusted by the tea party led rightward shift of the repubs, but I think both parties are not interested in what's best for the country and the majority of the people. they are all about power and $$, just supported/run by different interest groups.
One could argue this is simply a case of Bush Dole Bush Bush McCain being worse.
That was my thought.
I'm anti-war, and both parties are pro-war.
But I always felt the Republicans were more pro-war than the Democrats. I still believe this to be true, but they are both pretty much the same in almost every way.
With that said, I also line up more with Democrats on Social Issues, Equal marriage rights, Religion out of Government, so those principles also drove me towards voting Democrat.
Now locally I've voted for both Democrats and Republicans when I felt the individual had more to offer. (usually it wasn't much more than the other).
Independent here, having voted for repubs and dems in the past.
Currently disgusted by the tea party led rightward shift of the repubs, but I think both parties are not interested in what's best for the country and the majority of the people. they are all about power and $$, just supported/run by different interest groups.
probably vote for gary johnson this year.
Me too, I agree and I've been reading up
I may vote this way too ...
you are so right, neither party is interested in fixing our country.
I like them both as men though and do not fault them.
Our country is fucked.
Independent here, having voted for repubs and dems in the past.
Currently disgusted by the tea party led rightward shift of the repubs, but I think both parties are not interested in what's best for the country and the majority of the people. they are all about power and $$, just supported/run by different interest groups.
probably vote for gary johnson this year.
I hear what you are saying. This is a tough year and a hard choice. All I can say is that in 2000 I felt the same way and voted for Nader. I bought into the idea that there was no difference between Bush and Gore. I was very wrong, and it remains one of the two worst votes I ever cast.
I consider myself an independent but the GOP these days does not seem to cater to the Independent vote on the campaign trail. The Romney that debated Obama may have had a chance for my vote but it contradicted everything he campaigned on leading up to the debates which i don't respect. That was old moderate Massachusetts Romney and if he wins that is what I hope we end up getting.
10/31/2000 (****)
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
I consider myself an independent but the GOP these days does not seem to cater to the Independent vote on the campaign trail. The Romney that debated Obama may have had a chance for my vote but it contradicted everything he campaigned on leading up to the debates which i don't respect. That was old moderate Massachusetts Romney and if he wins that is what I hope we end up getting.
Colin Powell endorses Obama. Not sure if he'll vote for him but he's clearly crossing over. I wish Colin had resigned rather than make the pitch to the UN to go to war with Iraq.
Bush's 2nd term soured me on the Republican Party, McCain/Palin cemented it.
I'm an indepedent/libertarian now. But I'm voting Romney.
That said, in California I always toss my votes to ANY 3rd party on the ticket at every level, PTA, city, district, state - Independent, Green, Libertarian, Peace and Love. I have pretty much always voted anti-incumbent regardless of party. But that was easy as a Republican in CA....
When I was a Republican, I voted for Gov Gray Davis cause Lungren was a nightmare.
And I voted Ross Perot.
We need more viable parties. Two party system is killing us...
Comments
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
So what it comes down to is people labeling themselves "independent" annoys you because they're not labeling themselves according to a labeling system you made up and presumably most people don't know about (assuming you don't spend your days educating the people around you on your own personal political labeling system)? Finally! Something I can agree with!
But really, I guess I have a hard time seeing where you're coming from on this one, because Minnesota - land of Jesse Ventura - actually has a fairly large Independent party. To me, an Independent/independent means someone who supports the Independent party (locally) or someone who may lean one way or another but who on occasion considers giving their vote to a third party. Is it surprising that many independents go consistently with one party over another in a nation with an entrenched 2-party system and no real viable third party candidate in essentially forever?
I think the OP's intention was to find out if there are moderate liberals frustrated enough with Obama to vote for Romney or if there are moderate conservatives frustrated enough with their own party to vote for Obama. I'm not sure why it had to devolve into this big semantics-fight (the best kind!), unless of course, you told us all about your labeling system just as a way to dig at "free-thinking" liberals (sorry, but that's how you come off).
2003-06-16 St. Paul
2006-06-26 St. Paul
2007-08-05 Chicago
2009-08-23 Chicago
2009-08-28 San Francisco
2010-05-01 NOLA (Jazz Fest)
2011-07-02 EV Minneapolis
2011-09-03 PJ20
2011-09-04 PJ20
2011-09-17 Winnipeg
2012-06-26 Amsterdam
2012-06-27 Amsterdam
2013-07-19 Wrigley
2013-11-21 San Diego
2013-11-23 Los Angeles
2013-11-24 Los Angeles
2014-07-08 Leeds, UK
2014-07-11 Milton Keynes, UK
2014-10-09 Lincoln
2014-10-19 St. Paul
2014-10-20 Milwaukee
2016-08-20 Wrigley 1
2016-08-22 Wrigley 2
2018-06-18 London 1
2018-08-18 Wrigley 1
2018-08-20 Wrigley 2
2022-09-16 Nashville
2023-08-31 St. Paul
2023-09-02 St. Paul
2023-09-05 Chicago 1
2024-08-31 Wrigley 2
2024-09-15 Fenway 1
2024-09-27 Ohana 1
2024-09-29 Ohana 2
We are dependent on our 2 party system. The same system that is getting a 10% public approval rating.
So less then 10% of the voting population looks outside the two choices that 90% of us can agree are royally fucking things up.
:think:
:-o
:(
Independent here, having voted for repubs and dems in the past.
Currently disgusted by the tea party led rightward shift of the repubs, but I think both parties are not interested in what's best for the country and the majority of the people. they are all about power and $$, just supported/run by different interest groups.
probably vote for gary johnson this year.
Nope. Both parties. But I always thought lesser of two evils was the right way to go.
Now. Not so much.
That was my thought.
I'm anti-war, and both parties are pro-war.
But I always felt the Republicans were more pro-war than the Democrats. I still believe this to be true, but they are both pretty much the same in almost every way.
With that said, I also line up more with Democrats on Social Issues, Equal marriage rights, Religion out of Government, so those principles also drove me towards voting Democrat.
Now locally I've voted for both Democrats and Republicans when I felt the individual had more to offer. (usually it wasn't much more than the other).
sigh.
You meant debates, right?
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I may vote this way too ...
you are so right, neither party is interested in fixing our country.
I like them both as men though and do not fault them.
Our country is fucked.
I hear what you are saying. This is a tough year and a hard choice. All I can say is that in 2000 I felt the same way and voted for Nader. I bought into the idea that there was no difference between Bush and Gore. I was very wrong, and it remains one of the two worst votes I ever cast.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
yup
6/7/2003 (***1/2)
7/9/2006 (****1/2)
7/13/2006 (**** )
4/10/2008 EV Solo (****1/2)
6/25/2008 MSG II (*****)
10/1/2009 LA II (****)
10/6/2009 LA III (***** Cornell!!!)
It was. It won't be.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Peace.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
I believe he also endorsed him that year as well.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
I'm an indepedent/libertarian now. But I'm voting Romney.
That said, in California I always toss my votes to ANY 3rd party on the ticket at every level, PTA, city, district, state - Independent, Green, Libertarian, Peace and Love. I have pretty much always voted anti-incumbent regardless of party. But that was easy as a Republican in CA....
When I was a Republican, I voted for Gov Gray Davis cause Lungren was a nightmare.
And I voted Ross Perot.
We need more viable parties. Two party system is killing us...
+1- I'm with ya buddy. Systems fucked. I'd vote for Byrnzie if he was allowed to run. Damn rules! Or can he...........? :corn: