Will religion one day disappear?

whygohome

I found myself watching some Neil Degrasse Tyson lectures on religion (which then led to watching some Hitchens and Dawkins videos) and it got me thinking about a question I often ask myself, and a question that my friends and I often discuss: when will religion disappear?

Now, you can look at that as "when will religion disappear as a force in society/politics/culture," or as "when will religion disappear as Greek/Roman/Egyptian Mythology has disappeared?"

Some interesting reads that I found after watching Degrasse Tyson's lectures.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... oolishness

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/ ... ainsection

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/2 ... s-predict/

What do you think?

inlet13

whygohome wrote:

I found myself watching some Neil Degrasse Tyson lectures on religion (which then led to watching some Hitchens and Dawkins videos) and it got me thinking about a question I often ask myself, and a question that my friends and I often discuss: when will religion disappear?

Now, you can look at that as "when will religion disappear as a force in society/politics/culture," or as "when will religion disappear as Greek/Roman/Egyptian Mythology has disappeared?"

Some interesting reads that I found after watching Degrasse Tyson's lectures.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... oolishness

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/ ... ainsection

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/2 ... s-predict/

What do you think?

Never. Because it's based, at least in part, (and to varying degrees) in truth.

josevolution

I hope soon and take all the nuts with it ...

hedonist

I don't have ample time right now to read the links you posted, but I sure hope this discussion can remain respectful of those who are peacefully religious.

Anything else would be pretty fucking rude.

Jason P

hedonist wrote:

I don't have ample time right now to read the links you posted, but I sure hope this discussion can remain respectful of those who are peacefully religious.

Anything else would be pretty fucking rude.

I checked the odds .... Vegas is too scared to even post a point spread.

LET IT BEGIN!

:corn:

FattyFatCat

When there are no more humans to practice it.

The way we're going.. shouldn't be too long.

Next Tuesday.

whygohome

inlet13 wrote:

whygohome wrote:

I found myself watching some Neil Degrasse Tyson lectures on religion (which then led to watching some Hitchens and Dawkins videos) and it got me thinking about a question I often ask myself, and a question that my friends and I often discuss: when will religion disappear?

Now, you can look at that as "when will religion disappear as a force in society/politics/culture," or as "when will religion disappear as Greek/Roman/Egyptian Mythology has disappeared?"

Some interesting reads that I found after watching Degrasse Tyson's lectures.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... oolishness

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/ ... ainsection

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/2 ... s-predict/

What do you think?

Never. Because it's based, at least in part, (and to varying degrees) in truth.

OKay . Truth or truth? What are these T/truths you speak of?

And why is Christianity, or Islam, or Judaism any different than Greek/Roman Mythology? (or Scientology for that matter)

inlet13

whygohome wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

whygohome wrote:

I found myself watching some Neil Degrasse Tyson lectures on religion (which then led to watching some Hitchens and Dawkins videos) and it got me thinking about a question I often ask myself, and a question that my friends and I often discuss: when will religion disappear?

Now, you can look at that as "when will religion disappear as a force in society/politics/culture," or as "when will religion disappear as Greek/Roman/Egyptian Mythology has disappeared?"

Some interesting reads that I found after watching Degrasse Tyson's lectures.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... oolishness

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/ ... ainsection

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/2 ... s-predict/

What do you think?

Never. Because it's based, at least in part, (and to varying degrees) in truth.

OKay . Truth or truth? What are these T/truths you speak of?

And why is Christianity, or Islam, or Judaism any different than Greek/Roman Mythology? (or Scientology for that matter)

The truth?

An origin.

Explain the creation of all we know without it.

whygohome

hedonist wrote:

I don't have ample time right now to read the links you posted, but I sure hope this discussion can remain respectful of those who are peacefully religious.

Anything else would be pretty fucking rude.

It better, or else I will beat the living...............

whygohome

inlet13 wrote:

whygohome wrote:

OKay . Truth or truth? What are these T/truths you speak of?

And why is Christianity, or Islam, or Judaism any different than Greek/Roman Mythology? (or Scientology for that matter)

The truth?

An origin.

Explain the creation of all we know without it.

Origin as truth (or Truth).

A fish emerging from the sea? Or Eden?

I can't explain it. I am just a blob of biology that will be gone forever in 100 years; my lifetime of 80 or so years is as insignificant as a single grain of sand at Jones Beach.

Godfather.

whygohome wrote:

I found myself watching some Neil Degrasse Tyson lectures on religion (which then led to watching some Hitchens and Dawkins videos) and it got me thinking about a question I often ask myself, and a question that my friends and I often discuss: when will religion disappear?

Now, you can look at that as "when will religion disappear as a force in society/politics/culture," or as "when will religion disappear as Greek/Roman/Egyptian Mythology has disappeared?"

Some interesting reads that I found after watching Degrasse Tyson's lectures.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... oolishness

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/ ... ainsection

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/2 ... s-predict/

What do you think?

grow up.

Godfather.

even flow - question mark

When will religion disappear? Hmmmmm, maybe after science can provide what was happening before the big bang. Smoke a bowl and ponder that one for a while. God seems an easier choice.

whygohome

Godfather. wrote:

whygohome wrote:

I found myself watching some Neil Degrasse Tyson lectures on religion (which then led to watching some Hitchens and Dawkins videos) and it got me thinking about a question I often ask myself, and a question that my friends and I often discuss: when will religion disappear?

Now, you can look at that as "when will religion disappear as a force in society/politics/culture," or as "when will religion disappear as Greek/Roman/Egyptian Mythology has disappeared?"

Some interesting reads that I found after watching Degrasse Tyson's lectures.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... oolishness

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/ ... ainsection

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/2 ... s-predict/

What do you think?

grow up.

Godfather.

Explain. Would you tell Neil Degrasse Tyson, a leading astrophysicist, to grow up?

Go Beavers

inlet13 wrote:

whygohome wrote:

I found myself watching some Neil Degrasse Tyson lectures on religion (which then led to watching some Hitchens and Dawkins videos) and it got me thinking about a question I often ask myself, and a question that my friends and I often discuss: when will religion disappear?

Now, you can look at that as "when will religion disappear as a force in society/politics/culture," or as "when will religion disappear as Greek/Roman/Egyptian Mythology has disappeared?"

Some interesting reads that I found after watching Degrasse Tyson's lectures.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... oolishness

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2007/ ... ainsection

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/2 ... s-predict/

What do you think?

Never. Because it's based, at least in part, (and to varying degrees) in truth.

No, because it's based in faith (or at least should be).

inlet13

whygohome wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

whygohome wrote:

OKay . Truth or truth? What are these T/truths you speak of?

And why is Christianity, or Islam, or Judaism any different than Greek/Roman Mythology? (or Scientology for that matter)

The truth?

An origin.

Explain the creation of all we know without it.

Origin as truth (or Truth).

A fish emerging from the sea? Or Eden?

I can't explain it. I am just a blob of biology that will be gone forever in 100 years; my lifetime of 80 or so years is as insignificant as a single grain of sand at Jones Beach.

Explain the beginning.


Seriously, you started a thread on religion and asked when it would go away (not that that could be taken the wrong way or anything :roll: ). I responded - never, because it's somewhat based in a truth. You asked what truth? I said - an origin.

Then you responded with this gibberish above.

So, let me elaborate again:

Religion has an explanation of the origin of time and matter and space. I'm asking for a real alternative that explains how ALL came to be.

cincybearcat

It won't it will just morph. You already provided plenty examples of this and how far back do they go????

whygohome

I understand the tone of the AMT, and inlet13 pointed out that my thread title could be taken the worng way, so I have amended it. I meant this thread as a serious discussion.

whygohome

inlet13 wrote:

Explain the beginning.

Seriously, you started a thread on religion and asked when it would go away (not that that could be taken the wrong way or anything :roll: ). I responded - never, because it's somewhat based in a truth. You asked what truth? I said - an origin.

Then you responded with this gibberish above.

So, let me elaborate again:

Religion has an explanation of the origin of time and matter and space. I'm asking for a real alternative that explains how ALL came to be.

Come on , dude. "Gibberish?" Eye-rolling? You're better than that.

Just because religion has an explanation, does not make it truth. That would be, as Gobeavers said, faith. However, some may take it as truth.....but it still does not mean it is Truth

I don't have an explanation. That is way beyond my capabilities. But, I am not going to have faith in a doctrine because it has a creation story.

whygohome

cincybearcat wrote:

It won't it will just morph. You already provided plenty examples of this and how far back do they go????

Good point. That brings up another question that I simply cannot handle at the moment: what will it morph into? If the influence of religion is seen as waning, then I feel it may morph into something more extreme, as we see today. Any more extreme would be scary.

inlet13

whygohome wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Explain the beginning.

Seriously, you started a thread on religion and asked when it would go away (not that that could be taken the wrong way or anything :roll: ). I responded - never, because it's somewhat based in a truth. You asked what truth? I said - an origin.

Then you responded with this gibberish above.

So, let me elaborate again:

Religion has an explanation of the origin of time and matter and space. I'm asking for a real alternative that explains how ALL came to be.

Come on , dude. "Gibberish?" Eye-rolling? You're better than that.

Just because religion has an explanation, does not make it truth. That would be, as Gobeavers said, faith. However, some may take it as truth.....but it still does not mean it is Truth

I don't have an explanation. That is way beyond my capabilities. But, I am not going to have faith in a doctrine because it has a creation story.

Yes. Gibberish - you're previous response didn't get at what I was talking about, instead it talked about fish walking or something like that.

I was talking about the origin of time, space, matter, and all that is. I don't think it's faith actually. I think it's math.

You don't get 1 from zero. There was an origin, a catalyst. Call it what you will. If you don't like the term God- call it the force or walking fish for all I care.

BinauralJam

I think it will, probably not until the anunnaki show up and explain how were are all just genetically engineered slaves to mind gold.

Snakeduck

I guess when the space unicorn that blinked us into existence decides to shake his mane and cause us all to dissolve into dust. Duh...

whygohome

inlet13 wrote:

whygohome wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Explain the beginning.

Seriously, you started a thread on religion and asked when it would go away (not that that could be taken the wrong way or anything :roll: ). I responded - never, because it's somewhat based in a truth. You asked what truth? I said - an origin.

Then you responded with this gibberish above.

So, let me elaborate again:

Religion has an explanation of the origin of time and matter and space. I'm asking for a real alternative that explains how ALL came to be.

Come on , dude. "Gibberish?" Eye-rolling? You're better than that.

Just because religion has an explanation, does not make it truth. That would be, as Gobeavers said, faith. However, some may take it as truth.....but it still does not mean it is Truth

I don't have an explanation. That is way beyond my capabilities. But, I am not going to have faith in a doctrine because it has a creation story.

Yes. Gibberish - you're previous response didn't get at what I was talking about, instead it talked about fish walking or something like that.

I was talking about the origin of time, space, matter, and all that is. I don't think it's faith actually. I think it's math.

You don't get 1 from zero. There was an origin, a catalyst. Call it what you will. If you don't like the term God- call it the force or walking fish for all I care.

Science is an alternative to the creation story. The Truth is rather difficult to discern, and as another poster stated, a belief in a divine being is much easier because the "Truth" is already stated for an individual (in the form of the Bible, Koran, etc.).

Regarding my fish/Eden comment, these are the two more popular and accepted creation stories we have for humankind.

If we are talking about space, matter, time--math--this is an ongoing discussion in the scientific community. And, as more and more theories are posited, does this rule out the existence of God?

Another article I came across the other day: http://www.livescience.com/23251-scienc ... ysics.html

inlet13

whygohome wrote:

Science is an alternative to the creation story. The Truth is rather difficult to discern, and as another poster stated, a belief in a divine being is much easier because the "Truth" is already stated for an individual (in the form of the Bible, Koran, etc.).

Regarding my fish/Eden comment, these are the two more popular and accepted creation stories we have for humankind.

If we are talking about space, matter, time--math--this is an ongoing discussion in the scientific community. And, as more and more theories are posited, does this rule out the existence of God?

Another article I came across the other day: http://www.livescience.com/23251-scienc ... ysics.html

But, science does not really provide a logical alternative to what I was saying. It has hug gaping holes.

Simpletons try to push all discussions on this back to Genesis when discussing this. But, we all know that religion is much broader than that. Let's take the Bible out of it, because that doesn't represent "religion" as whole. So, let's talk of religion as a belief in a higher power. An origin of sorts. The origin of all that is.

Typically, the only response by science to this is the big bang. Which is weak. It has holes. How did it occur? What "existed" prior to it to cause it? Etc. Elements had to exist prior to "bang"... what were these? Who or what created these? These are the holes. Because if something existed prior, then it's not an origin of all that is.

The best attempt by science it to try to say that pre-big bang space, matter, etc was infinite. Problem is, once again, that doesn't add up. There has to have been a cause to create time. Then we can create that back to creation of space. To create all that is. An origin.

Science hasn't and won't ever find an origin.

A spiritual force is the only logical answer to the origin. It doesn't take faith at all. It takes math.

EdsonNascimento

I actually think the opposite - it won't go away until we explain what happens after DEATH (as opposed to our origins).

I don't think folks sit up nights caressing their rosary trying to decipher the origins of life. They cling to their version of the origin of life because it helps ease the burden of pondering their own death. Religion provides something that science never will - what happens after death? Now, we say nothing. But, isn't that a scary thought? Thus, the rise of religion.

Suicide bombers aren't pondering the origins of life. They are trying to get a better spot in the after life. Which, of course, is silly. But, again - it's based on DEATH not LIFE (or how could you rationalize killing another human being in the name of such?).

What's the basis of religious tenents? Do good, so you'll go to heaven. And, I'm going to save you by making you believe my religion (quite frankly is our current Presedential election that far from this theory?).

So, as long as humans are fearful of death and what happens after, religion will exist. So, therefore, it is never going away.

Now, a better question might be - when will folks stop using it as an excuse to kill others. And the answer to that is the same - never. More people have been killed in the name of a god than for any other reason. But, that doesn't make religion bad. It makes the folks using religion as an excuse bad.

whygohome

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I actually think the opposite - it won't go away until we explain what happens after DEATH (as opposed to our origins).

I don't think folks sit up nights caressing their rosary trying to decipher the origins of life. They cling to their version of the origin of life because it helps ease the burden of pondering their own death. Religion provides something that science never will - what happens after death? Now, we say nothing. But, isn't that a scary thought? Thus, the rise of religion.

A good reversal. As a non-believer, an agnostic, I'm scared shitless of death, and fear is a driving force in religion: an explanation to that which cannot be explained by human inquiry. I would love to believe that after my 80, 90 years I get to go to paradise, to see loved ones, to see my labrador retrievers, but I simply cannot believe it, despite its appeal and its ability to comfort.

Quite the quandary.............

BinauralJam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v27TRan1SBI

I'm hoping for something like this, but i'm not in any rush

inlet13

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I actually think the opposite - it won't go away until we explain what happens after DEATH (as opposed to our origins).

I don't think folks sit up nights caressing their rosary trying to decipher the origins of life. They cling to their version of the origin of life because it helps ease the burden of pondering their own death. Religion provides something that science never will - what happens after death? Now, we say nothing. But, isn't that a scary thought? Thus, the rise of religion.

Suicide bombers aren't pondering the origins of life. They are trying to get a better spot in the after life. Which, of course, is silly. But, again - it's based on DEATH not LIFE (or how could you rationalize killing another human being in the name of such?).

What's the basis of religious tenents? Do good, so you'll go to heaven. And, I'm going to save you by making you believe my religion (quite frankly is our current Presedential election that far from this theory?).

So, as long as humans are fearful of death and what happens after, religion will exist. So, therefore, it is never going away.

Now, a better question might be - when will folks stop using it as an excuse to kill others. And the answer to that is the same - never. More people have been killed in the name of a god than for any other reason. But, that doesn't make religion bad. It makes the folks using religion as an excuse bad.

Good point. I think the origin and the end matter to the debate. But, your point is well taken and true.

inlet13

whygohome wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I actually think the opposite - it won't go away until we explain what happens after DEATH (as opposed to our origins).

I don't think folks sit up nights caressing their rosary trying to decipher the origins of life. They cling to their version of the origin of life because it helps ease the burden of pondering their own death. Religion provides something that science never will - what happens after death? Now, we say nothing. But, isn't that a scary thought? Thus, the rise of religion.

A good reversal. As a non-believer, an agnostic, I'm scared shitless of death, and fear is a driving force in religion: an explanation to that which cannot be explained by human inquiry. I would love to believe that after my 80, 90 years I get to go to paradise, to see loved ones, to see my labrador retrievers, but I simply cannot believe it, despite its appeal and its ability to comfort.

Quite the quandary.............

What if it's not that simple. I think half the problem of non-believers and ultra believers (think evangelicals) are their simplistic notions of the afterlife.

What if we are reunited with not just loved ones but with all that is. In other words, it's not in the fairytale simplistic type reunion? My viewpoint on this is simple:

-Time exists here on earth
-We can't fathom the timeless
-On earth we long to be a part of something bigger, our entire lives in time are spent longing for more
-God (or whatever you want to call it, she, he) is both time and non-time, all that is
-when we die we enter non-time and are reunited with God (or everything) - the whole. We were always there, in fact.

whygohome

inlet13 wrote:

But, science does not really provide a logical alternative to what I was saying. It has hug gaping holes.

Simpletons try to push all discussions on this back to Genesis when discussing this. But, we all know that religion is much broader than that. Let's take the Bible out of it, because that doesn't represent "religion" as whole. So, let's talk of religion as a belief in a higher power. An origin of sorts. The origin of all that is.

Typically, the only response by science to this is the big bang. Which is weak. It has holes. How did it occur? What "existed" prior to it to cause it? Etc. Elements had to exist prior to "bang"... what were these? Who or what created these? These are the holes. Because if something existed prior, then it's not an origin of all that is.

The best attempt by science it to try to say that pre-big bang space, matter, etc was infinite. Problem is, once again, that doesn't add up. There has to have been a cause to create time. Then we can create that back to creation of space. To create all that is. An origin.

Science hasn't and won't ever find an origin.

A spiritual force is the only logical answer to the origin. It doesn't take faith at all. It takes math.

Scientific inquiry does present an alternative, though an incomplete one, an ongoing one, and this is enough for non-believers.
Will the "holes" be filled. Not in our lifetime, maybe not ever, and therefore we are inclined and resigned to believe in a spiritual force. It is, in my opinion, not the only logical answer; it may be at the moment, but that would assume scientific inquiry has used up all its weapons.
Science is, at least, working toward an answer, whereas religion has had an answer all along. I can't agree that science will not be able to find an explanation. The world, and science, will go one for centuries long after I am dead.

even flow - question mark

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I actually think the opposite - it won't go away until we explain what happens after DEATH (as opposed to our origins).

I don't think folks sit up nights caressing their rosary trying to decipher the origins of life. They cling to their version of the origin of life because it helps ease the burden of pondering their own death. Religion provides something that science never will - what happens after death? Now, we say nothing. But, isn't that a scary thought? Thus, the rise of religion.

Suicide bombers aren't pondering the origins of life. They are trying to get a better spot in the after life. Which, of course, is silly. But, again - it's based on DEATH not LIFE (or how could you rationalize killing another human being in the name of such?).

What's the basis of religious tenents? Do good, so you'll go to heaven. And, I'm going to save you by making you believe my religion (quite frankly is our current Presedential election that far from this theory?).

So, as long as humans are fearful of death and what happens after, religion will exist. So, therefore, it is never going away.

Now, a better question might be - when will folks stop using it as an excuse to kill others. And the answer to that is the same - never. More people have been killed in the name of a god than for any other reason. But, that doesn't make religion bad. It makes the folks using religion as an excuse bad.

Nice take on things. But for me it becomes dark, just like before you were born. I mean if a religious person believes that you came from your mom and dad (which you did), then why bother about the death part. It is a part of the natural cycle of life. To me it is a bit of a stretch to say that god granted you life but it didn't snap its fingers that it had mom and dad do the work. Add to that the religious person who has several miscarriages and then ponders why god dosen't want her/them to have a child. Just dosen't add up. Because to get to heaven you must have had a glimpse of it when god sent you down to earth. Ah yeah my predays in heaven.