obamacare

Godfather.

this is killing me so far 90% of the posts are just opinion and little to no facts...just a bunch of bickering over opinions...anybody have anything solid ? besides bingfrog the indepandent ..just messin with ya BingFrog

Godfather.

BinFrog

Godfather. wrote:

this is killing me so far 90% of the posts are just opinion and little to no facts...just a bunch of bickering over opinions...anybody have anything solid ? besides bingfrog the indepandent ..just messin with ya BingFrog

Godfather.

It's not really messing with me if you try to use the term I used for myself to poke at me. I'm a left leaning independent. I have no problem with that.

Godfather.

BinFrog wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

this is killing me so far 90% of the posts are just opinion and little to no facts...just a bunch of bickering over opinions...anybody have anything solid ? besides bingfrog the indepandent ..just messin with ya BingFrog

Godfather.

It's not really messing with me if you try to use the term I used for myself to poke at me. I'm a left leaning independent. I have no problem with that.

no man I was pointing out your posting of the links on obamacare, which by the way I like the link from procon.org

Godfather.

know1

BinFrog wrote:

know1 wrote:

And I do believe in health insurance for catastrophic cases, but not to pay for our everyday prescriptions and routine doctor visits. We can pay for that ourselves....and much cheaper than we do now.

The whole healthcare paradigm needs to shift towards preventative care (and already has been). You realize that if insurance only covered major medical procedures and sick visits, our healthcare system would spiral out of control, right?

Insurance is, for all intents and purposes, risk management. So are you really advocating making people pay for well visits and check-ups entirely out of their own pockets, even after they have paid for healthcare out of their paychecks every week? Seriously?

I mean....that's not even worth debating. That's just silly.

I understand risk management. But insurance for everything else - cars, houses, life, etc. isn't used to pay for every day items and maintenance like we use it for health insurance.

When you use it for everything, it is no longer risk management and it's a payment plan.

I firmly believe that the cost of health care would go down if we decreased our reliance on insurance rather than increase it.

cincybearcat

know1 wrote:

When you use it for everything, it is no longer risk management and it's a payment plan.

Right. It'd be like if you used car insurance to pay for oil changes. Guess what would happen to the cost of an oil change????

Prince Of Dorkness

cincybearcat wrote:

Right. It'd be like if you used car insurance to pay for oil changes. Guess what would happen to the cost of an oil change????

Nobody is expecting insurance to pay for aspirin and bandages and vitamins.

health insurance makes sure that you get preventative care. Which is cheaper and more effective than emergency care.

Prince Of Dorkness

And I'm kinda baffled by the comparison of a car that you replace every few years to a family member's body.

But I guess if all you care about are your material possessions...

know1

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

And I'm kinda baffled by the comparison of a car that you replace every few years to a family member's body.

But I guess if all you care about are your material possessions...

That's a typical response to the analogy to car insurance, but I'm not comparing a car to a person. I'm comparing a type of insurance to another type insurance.

cincybearcat

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

And I'm kinda baffled by the comparison of a car that you replace every few years to a family member's body.

But I guess if all you care about are your material possessions...

Well that's because that wasn't the comparison, but go ahead and try to distort. It was about insurance, and they are both insurance. Does that baffle you too?

As for you last sentence, that;s a asshole thing to say.

know1

cincybearcat wrote:

know1 wrote:

When you use it for everything, it is no longer risk management and it's a payment plan.

Right. It'd be like if you used car insurance to pay for oil changes. Guess what would happen to the cost of an oil change????

Yep. It would be exactly like paying someone else to go pay for your oil change. There's no doubt that the cost would go up by leaps and bounds.

inlet13

hostis wrote:

can anyone explain to me why people are against "Obamacare"? I'm not trying to start a war here, I just don't understand why some people are against it.

In the UK we have the NHS - much maligned and moaned about but generally bloody marvellous. Its a comparison but it seems that obamacare is trying to give healthcare to those that cant afford it and surely that's a good thing?

First, it's important to understand that "healthcare" is not "health insurance". Every single person who need immediate healthcare, whether a citizen or not, gets it in the US. Anyone who says otherwise, is wrong.

Second, there are many problems with Obamacare and NHS. As the government intrusion into this market increases, it will most likely eventually crowd out private players by offering cheaper rates - by tapping into government coffers to pay for these cheaper rates, thereby making it more competitive at some sort of cost to the taxpayers --- this is well documented in homeowners insurance --- look up Citizens FL for an example. Gov't programs will expand and will slowly gain market share. This may seem ok (outside of the no money aspect - whcih I'd say is very not ok), but the services they will allow will also also restrict the healthcare consumer.This will also impact physicians, and lead to more general doctors and less specialization. As more "new" doctors sway away from becoming specialists into more general practitioners, they will be paid less and "students" will be less incentivized to go into tons of debt to go into medicine. Our quality and quantity of doctors will worsen. Moreover, as demand for services increases - as more are now insured, you'll have supply via less doctors (decreasing) while the demand is increasing. This will result in much higher prices (costs - depending on how you're looking at it). Now, that the government's in more control, they'll eventually need to get a handle on the rising costs, and will put more and more limits on what a normal citizen can be treated for via insurance, to try to keep costs down. This will result in shortages and rationing. This is where the lines for specialist type work come in. Further, this will continue to kill specialization and worsen healthcare for an average citizen. So, in total, a general citizen will get less choice for specialists, there will be less doctors, services will eventually involve higher costs and the government will eventually have ANOTHER program to mismanage. That's why it sucks.

Finally, and the bottom line, the government doesn't work efficiently. That's not to say the private market - in this case - seems to either. Our healthcare system was a mess before Obamacare. My issue - the government was already too involved in medicine - that's why the private market didn't work. It wasn't private. Insurance is too regulated, there were too many medical programs via gov't. The true solution is to get the government out - completely. But, we all know that will never happen. Obamacare only worsens the overall problem though, unfortunately.

cincybearcat

Honestly, I hate Obamacare for a lot of reasons and like it for several.

Really, I think we need to go 1 of 2 ways....the way that know1 is talking about, or removing insurance completely and literally have socialistic health care. Again, I could be for either, so long as they are paid for....spending cuts elsewhere.

know1

I also think that another part of the problem is that employers provide health insurance and take out the premiums from the paycheck before you get it.

I think employers should just pay that extra amount to the employee on the front end and then have them cut the checks to the health insurance companies. It's a lot easier to accept the cost when the money never finds its way into your bank account.

Prince Of Dorkness

cincybearcat wrote:

As for you last sentence, that;s a asshole thing to say.

Hey, man... Don't look at me. You're the one drawing parallels between affordable health care and maintaining your car. Don't crap in your own pants and blame me for the stink that surrounds you.

cincybearcat

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

As for you last sentence, that;s a asshole thing to say.

Hey, man... Don't look at me. You're the one drawing parallels between affordable health care and maintaining your car. Don't crap in your own pants and blame me for the stink that surrounds you.

No, actually, like I said, it was insurance. Pretty easy to see if you actually look instead of constantly trying to piss people off. Well, nice job, you pissed me off.

BinauralJam

Lets hug it fella's.

Jason P

obama-insurance, not care. nothing has been reformed.

cincybearcat

BinauralJam wrote:

Lets hug it fella's.

No thanks.

josevolution

So how has Obamacare affected your everyday life ?
Does it cost you more $$$
Do you get less coverage ..

cincybearcat

josevolution wrote:

So how has Obamacare affected your everyday life ?
Does it cost you more $$$
Do you get less coverage ..

Who are you asking?