can anyone explain to me why people are against "Obamacare"? I'm not trying to start a war here, I just don't understand why some people are against it.
In the UK we have the NHS - much maligned and moaned about but generally bloody marvellous. Its a comparison but it seems that obamacare is trying to give healthcare to those that cant afford it and surely that's a good thing?
First, it's important to understand that "healthcare" is not "health insurance". Every single person who need immediate healthcare, whether a citizen or not, gets it in the US. Anyone who says otherwise, is wrong.
Second, there are many problems with Obamacare and NHS. As the government intrusion into this market increases, it will most likely eventually crowd out private players by offering cheaper rates - by tapping into government coffers to pay for these cheaper rates, thereby making it more competitive at some sort of cost to the taxpayers --- this is well documented in homeowners insurance --- look up Citizens FL for an example. Gov't programs will expand and will slowly gain market share. This may seem ok (outside of the no money aspect - whcih I'd say is very not ok), but the services they will allow will also also restrict the healthcare consumer.This will also impact physicians, and lead to more general doctors and less specialization. As more "new" doctors sway away from becoming specialists into more general practitioners, they will be paid less and "students" will be less incentivized to go into tons of debt to go into medicine. Our quality and quantity of doctors will worsen. Moreover, as demand for services increases - as more are now insured, you'll have supply via less doctors (decreasing) while the demand is increasing. This will result in much higher prices (costs - depending on how you're looking at it). Now, that the government's in more control, they'll eventually need to get a handle on the rising costs, and will put more and more limits on what a normal citizen can be treated for via insurance, to try to keep costs down. This will result in shortages and rationing. This is where the lines for specialist type work come in. Further, this will continue to kill specialization and worsen healthcare for an average citizen. So, in total, a general citizen will get less choice for specialists, there will be less doctors, services will eventually involve higher costs and the government will eventually have ANOTHER program to mismanage. That's why it sucks.
Finally, and the bottom line, the government doesn't work efficiently. That's not to say the private market - in this case - seems to either. Our healthcare system was a mess before Obamacare. My issue - the government was already too involved in medicine - that's why the private market didn't work. It wasn't private. Insurance is too regulated, there were too many medical programs via gov't. The true solution is to get the government out - completely. But, we all know that will never happen. Obamacare only worsens the overall problem though, unfortunately.
Honestly, I hate Obamacare for a lot of reasons and like it for several.
Really, I think we need to go 1 of 2 ways....the way that know1 is talking about, or removing insurance completely and literally have socialistic health care. Again, I could be for either, so long as they are paid for....spending cuts elsewhere.
I also think that another part of the problem is that employers provide health insurance and take out the premiums from the paycheck before you get it.
I think employers should just pay that extra amount to the employee on the front end and then have them cut the checks to the health insurance companies. It's a lot easier to accept the cost when the money never finds its way into your bank account.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
As for you last sentence, that;s a asshole thing to say.
Hey, man... Don't look at me. You're the one drawing parallels between affordable health care and maintaining your car. Don't crap in your own pants and blame me for the stink that surrounds you.
As for you last sentence, that;s a asshole thing to say.
Hey, man... Don't look at me. You're the one drawing parallels between affordable health care and maintaining your car. Don't crap in your own pants and blame me for the stink that surrounds you.
No, actually, like I said, it was insurance. Pretty easy to see if you actually look instead of constantly trying to piss people off. Well, nice job, you pissed me off.
I also think that another part of the problem is that employers provide health insurance and take out the premiums from the paycheck before you get it.
I think employers should just pay that extra amount to the employee on the front end and then have them cut the checks to the health insurance companies. It's a lot easier to accept the cost when the money never finds its way into your bank account.
I agree with that... I really wish insurance had no relationship with our employers at all.
In my opinion, socialized care would be the best option, but I could live with completely independent health insurance (even if it is government mandated).
The car insurance analogy has been brought up, if people could freely shop around for their health insurance like car insurance, we could get policies that better serve what we need, and probably at a lower cost because of the competition.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
i don't like it because it did not go far enough. i'm for universal single payer health insurance for all.
but i agree with some things that on moral grounds should be implied and not have to be put into law such as:
1. you can not get dropped if you get sick and you can not be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
2. parents can keep kids on their insurance until age 26.
and a few others.
access to health care and a way to be able to afford said care should be a basic human right.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
i don't like it because it did not go far enough. i'm for universal single payer health insurance for all.
but i agree with some things that on moral grounds should be implied and not have to be put into law such as:
1. you can not get dropped if you get sick and you can not be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
2. parents can keep kids on their insurance until age 26.
and a few others.
access to health care and a way to be able to afford said care should be a basic human right.
i don't like it because it did not go far enough. i'm for universal single payer health insurance for all.
but i agree with some things that on moral grounds should be implied and not have to be put into law such as:
1. you can not get dropped if you get sick and you can not be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
2. parents can keep kids on their insurance until age 26.
and a few others.
access to health care and a way to be able to afford said care should be a basic human right.
I like #2 the most , i'm glad my two kids will be able to stay on my plan till they are 26 ...
i don't like it because it did not go far enough. i'm for universal single payer health insurance for all.
but i agree with some things that on moral grounds should be implied and not have to be put into law such as:
1. you can not get dropped if you get sick and you can not be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
2. parents can keep kids on their insurance until age 26.
and a few others.
access to health care and a way to be able to afford said care should be a basic human right.
I agree with your #1.
As for your #2, why? Why 26 exactly?
i think it is age 26 because that is that age where if you went to college and grad school and graduated at 25 it gives you some time to find a career and get your own insurance. some people enter work right out of high school and go to college in their early or mid 20s, and if they go to school full time they can not work full time to get the insurance coverage, this gives them some protection so they would not have to pay through the nose for insurance that they can not afford.
someone posted a thread the other day about how today's college grads are living at home and are having trouble finding a job with benefits such as health care. before those kids could be dropped and then they would have been screwed if something catastrophic happened to them. i think age 26 is a fair age to draw the proverbial line.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
I also think that another part of the problem is that employers provide health insurance and take out the premiums from the paycheck before you get it.
I think employers should just pay that extra amount to the employee on the front end and then have them cut the checks to the health insurance companies. It's a lot easier to accept the cost when the money never finds its way into your bank account.
I agree with that... I really wish insurance had no relationship with our employers at all.
In my opinion, socialized care would be the best option, but I could live with completely independent health insurance (even if it is government mandated).
The car insurance analogy has been brought up, if people could freely shop around for their health insurance like car insurance, we could get policies that better serve what we need, and probably at a lower cost because of the competition.
But you can shop around for your health insurance. My wife had her own personal policy before we were married because her employer didn't provide it.
Furthermore, for those that are glad that kids can stay on the insurance until 26, they could really buy pretty cheap insurance policies for those kids. Probably even cheaper than they are getting from their employer. People that age are generally healthy and if they went with a high-deductible plan, it would be pretty cheap.
Again, though, I'm a firm believer we need to get away from our reliance on health insurance and get back to paying for more things out-of-pocket.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I also think that another part of the problem is that employers provide health insurance and take out the premiums from the paycheck before you get it.
I think employers should just pay that extra amount to the employee on the front end and then have them cut the checks to the health insurance companies. It's a lot easier to accept the cost when the money never finds its way into your bank account.
I agree with that... I really wish insurance had no relationship with our employers at all.
In my opinion, socialized care would be the best option, but I could live with completely independent health insurance (even if it is government mandated).
The car insurance analogy has been brought up, if people could freely shop around for their health insurance like car insurance, we could get policies that better serve what we need, and probably at a lower cost because of the competition.
But you can shop around for your health insurance. My wife had her own personal policy before we were married because her employer didn't provide it.
Furthermore, for those that are glad that kids can stay on the insurance until 26, they could really buy pretty cheap insurance policies for those kids. Probably even cheaper than they are getting from their employer. People that age are generally healthy and if they went with a high-deductible plan, it would be pretty cheap.
Again, though, I'm a firm believer we need to get away from our reliance on health insurance and get back to paying for more things out-of-pocket.
But for most of us, it's not financially an option to forgo our employer plans and pay the full freight for a personal policy. I am on my wife's policy because it makes more sense for us. By waiving my insurance through my employer, they give me a whopping $60 a month, while they are saving hundreds on me not having a policy.
In a perfect world, if you opt out, you should get that portion that your employer plays added into you salary.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,892
whats Obamacare? I've heard about the Affordable Care Act. As far as I know , ACA is the only healthcare law on the books?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
But for most of us, it's not financially an option to forgo our employer plans and pay the full freight for a personal policy. I am on my wife's policy because it makes more sense for us. By waiving my insurance through my employer, they give me a whopping $60 a month, while they are saving hundreds on me not having a policy.
In a perfect world, if you opt out, you should get that portion that your employer plays added into you salary.
My point is that people are so brainwashed about insurance that they basically think there aren't any options outside of employer-provided insurance.
I'm saying that people in their early 20s could absolutely buy their own personal insurance policies for pretty cheap....but nobody thinks of that option.
But, I do agree that if we buy insurance on our own - which I think we should do - our employers should give us the money they were spending on our health insurance as additional salary.
I almost can't fathom why we think it's a good thing for our employers to make some of our most important health decisions anyway.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
But for most of us, it's not financially an option to forgo our employer plans and pay the full freight for a personal policy. I am on my wife's policy because it makes more sense for us. By waiving my insurance through my employer, they give me a whopping $60 a month, while they are saving hundreds on me not having a policy.
In a perfect world, if you opt out, you should get that portion that your employer plays added into you salary.
My point is that people are so brainwashed about insurance that they basically think there aren't any options outside of employer-provided insurance.
I'm saying that people in their early 20s could absolutely by their own personal insurance policies for pretty cheap....but nobody thinks of that option.
But, I do agree that if we buy insurance on our own - which I think we should do - our employers should give us the money they were spending on our health insurance as additional salary.
I almost can't fathom why we think it's a good thing for our employers to make some of our most important health decisions anyway.
I think you and I are in agreement with all of these points. And people in their early 20's (especially low earning ones), can get pretty affordable coverage either through private companies, or from most states.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
although the affordable care at isn't perfect it's a hell of a lot better then what is in place before it... Americans love to bang on about their health insurance being the best in the world but that is blatant ignorance.. If you look at countries like Australia, England and Canada universal health care works perfectly well and is accepted that everyone get's covered at a decent rate. I don't understand why their is a backlash when anyone mentions health care reform or universal health care.. Do people think some don't deserve health care and some do?
Health care is a right not just for the 'worthy' or wealthy but to every human being. People who have health care insurance are scared that obamacare will screw things up for them.. this is another misconception and fear that the GOP have shoved down your throats.
I'm just flying around the other side of the world to say I love you
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
I think you and I are in agreement with all of these points. And people in their early 20's (especially low earning ones), can get pretty affordable coverage either through private companies, or from most states.
Just a few years ago when we were both single, my wife was buying her own personal health insurance policy - and it wasn't even a high-deductible one - for $125 per month.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Health care is a right not just for the 'worthy' or wealthy but to every human being. People who have health care insurance are scared that obamacare will screw things up for them.. this is another misconception and fear that the GOP have shoved down your throats.
I get what you're saying, but at what point in human history did affordable care become a right? Until not too long ago, a significant portion of humans were isolated from having access to much, if any health care at all.
I'm not saying that's a good thing at all and I think people should get treatment if it's needed, but I think you go to far by calling it a right.
(also the word affordable is highly subjective).
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think you and I are in agreement with all of these points. And people in their early 20's (especially low earning ones), can get pretty affordable coverage either through private companies, or from most states.
Just a few years ago when we were both single, my wife was buying her own personal health insurance policy - and it wasn't even a high-deductible one - for $125 per month.
$125 a month for some is alot of money to be honest. I remember leaving university and not having a good job (when i say good job, i mean a job that paid over min. wage) after paying rent and food i barely had 100 a month for anything else.
I think you and I are in agreement with all of these points. And people in their early 20's (especially low earning ones), can get pretty affordable coverage either through private companies, or from most states.
Just a few years ago when we were both single, my wife was buying her own personal health insurance policy - and it wasn't even a high-deductible one - for $125 per month.
$125 a month for some is alot of money to be honest. I remember leaving university and not having a good job (when i say good job, i mean a job that paid over min. wage) after paying rent and food i barely had 100 a month for anything else.
Well she was in her later 20s and she didn't have a high-deductible/catastrophic type of policy. She was only making about $9/hr at the time and she made it work.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Comments
First, it's important to understand that "healthcare" is not "health insurance". Every single person who need immediate healthcare, whether a citizen or not, gets it in the US. Anyone who says otherwise, is wrong.
Second, there are many problems with Obamacare and NHS. As the government intrusion into this market increases, it will most likely eventually crowd out private players by offering cheaper rates - by tapping into government coffers to pay for these cheaper rates, thereby making it more competitive at some sort of cost to the taxpayers --- this is well documented in homeowners insurance --- look up Citizens FL for an example. Gov't programs will expand and will slowly gain market share. This may seem ok (outside of the no money aspect - whcih I'd say is very not ok), but the services they will allow will also also restrict the healthcare consumer.This will also impact physicians, and lead to more general doctors and less specialization. As more "new" doctors sway away from becoming specialists into more general practitioners, they will be paid less and "students" will be less incentivized to go into tons of debt to go into medicine. Our quality and quantity of doctors will worsen. Moreover, as demand for services increases - as more are now insured, you'll have supply via less doctors (decreasing) while the demand is increasing. This will result in much higher prices (costs - depending on how you're looking at it). Now, that the government's in more control, they'll eventually need to get a handle on the rising costs, and will put more and more limits on what a normal citizen can be treated for via insurance, to try to keep costs down. This will result in shortages and rationing. This is where the lines for specialist type work come in. Further, this will continue to kill specialization and worsen healthcare for an average citizen. So, in total, a general citizen will get less choice for specialists, there will be less doctors, services will eventually involve higher costs and the government will eventually have ANOTHER program to mismanage. That's why it sucks.
Finally, and the bottom line, the government doesn't work efficiently. That's not to say the private market - in this case - seems to either. Our healthcare system was a mess before Obamacare. My issue - the government was already too involved in medicine - that's why the private market didn't work. It wasn't private. Insurance is too regulated, there were too many medical programs via gov't. The true solution is to get the government out - completely. But, we all know that will never happen. Obamacare only worsens the overall problem though, unfortunately.
<object height="81" width="100%"> <param name="movie" value="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869"></param> <param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param> <embed allowscriptaccess="always" height="81" src="https://player.soundcloud.com/player.swf?url=http://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/28998869" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="100%"></embed> </object> <span><a href=" - In the Fire (demo)</a> by <a href="
Really, I think we need to go 1 of 2 ways....the way that know1 is talking about, or removing insurance completely and literally have socialistic health care. Again, I could be for either, so long as they are paid for....spending cuts elsewhere.
I think employers should just pay that extra amount to the employee on the front end and then have them cut the checks to the health insurance companies. It's a lot easier to accept the cost when the money never finds its way into your bank account.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
Hey, man... Don't look at me. You're the one drawing parallels between affordable health care and maintaining your car. Don't crap in your own pants and blame me for the stink that surrounds you.
No, actually, like I said, it was insurance. Pretty easy to see if you actually look instead of constantly trying to piss people off. Well, nice job, you pissed me off.
No thanks.
Does it cost you more $$$
Do you get less coverage ..
Who are you asking?
I agree with that... I really wish insurance had no relationship with our employers at all.
In my opinion, socialized care would be the best option, but I could live with completely independent health insurance (even if it is government mandated).
The car insurance analogy has been brought up, if people could freely shop around for their health insurance like car insurance, we could get policies that better serve what we need, and probably at a lower cost because of the competition.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Evryone here , i just wanna know if your against it why & how has it affected your everyday life ..
I haven't been affected at all by it i've had the same coverage for yrs now and it i haven't seen a change ...
but i agree with some things that on moral grounds should be implied and not have to be put into law such as:
1. you can not get dropped if you get sick and you can not be denied coverage for pre-existing conditions.
2. parents can keep kids on their insurance until age 26.
and a few others.
access to health care and a way to be able to afford said care should be a basic human right.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I agree with your #1.
As for your #2, why? Why 26 exactly?
I like #2 the most , i'm glad my two kids will be able to stay on my plan till they are 26 ...
looks like we'll see either after the up comong election or 2014.
Godfather.
someone posted a thread the other day about how today's college grads are living at home and are having trouble finding a job with benefits such as health care. before those kids could be dropped and then they would have been screwed if something catastrophic happened to them. i think age 26 is a fair age to draw the proverbial line.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
True ..
But you can shop around for your health insurance. My wife had her own personal policy before we were married because her employer didn't provide it.
Furthermore, for those that are glad that kids can stay on the insurance until 26, they could really buy pretty cheap insurance policies for those kids. Probably even cheaper than they are getting from their employer. People that age are generally healthy and if they went with a high-deductible plan, it would be pretty cheap.
Again, though, I'm a firm believer we need to get away from our reliance on health insurance and get back to paying for more things out-of-pocket.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
But for most of us, it's not financially an option to forgo our employer plans and pay the full freight for a personal policy. I am on my wife's policy because it makes more sense for us. By waiving my insurance through my employer, they give me a whopping $60 a month, while they are saving hundreds on me not having a policy.
In a perfect world, if you opt out, you should get that portion that your employer plays added into you salary.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Affordable is no more descriptive of the actual law than Obama. So, what's the difference? At least one of those is being honest.....
http://www.examiner.com/article/obamaca ... or-america
My point is that people are so brainwashed about insurance that they basically think there aren't any options outside of employer-provided insurance.
I'm saying that people in their early 20s could absolutely buy their own personal insurance policies for pretty cheap....but nobody thinks of that option.
But, I do agree that if we buy insurance on our own - which I think we should do - our employers should give us the money they were spending on our health insurance as additional salary.
I almost can't fathom why we think it's a good thing for our employers to make some of our most important health decisions anyway.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I think you and I are in agreement with all of these points. And people in their early 20's (especially low earning ones), can get pretty affordable coverage either through private companies, or from most states.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
Health care is a right not just for the 'worthy' or wealthy but to every human being. People who have health care insurance are scared that obamacare will screw things up for them.. this is another misconception and fear that the GOP have shoved down your throats.
Sha la la la i'm in love with a jersey girl
I love you forever and forever
Adel 03 Melb 1 03 LA 2 06 Santa Barbara 06 Gorge 1 06 Gorge 2 06 Adel 1 06 Adel 2 06 Camden 1 08 Camden 2 08 Washington DC 08 Hartford 08
Just a few years ago when we were both single, my wife was buying her own personal health insurance policy - and it wasn't even a high-deductible one - for $125 per month.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
I get what you're saying, but at what point in human history did affordable care become a right? Until not too long ago, a significant portion of humans were isolated from having access to much, if any health care at all.
I'm not saying that's a good thing at all and I think people should get treatment if it's needed, but I think you go to far by calling it a right.
(also the word affordable is highly subjective).
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
$125 a month for some is alot of money to be honest. I remember leaving university and not having a good job (when i say good job, i mean a job that paid over min. wage) after paying rent and food i barely had 100 a month for anything else.
Well she was in her later 20s and she didn't have a high-deductible/catastrophic type of policy. She was only making about $9/hr at the time and she made it work.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.