Something funny about MIA

2

Comments

  • That's not just Pearl Jam, it's everyone. You can support American jobs but still have Chinese made clothing. Do you think that we should have more jobs in America? Have you ever said that you think we should have more jobs in America as opposed to other countries? I'm sure you do, and I'm sure you have. Where are the clothes you're wearing from? I'm going to guess it's made in China, because it probably is. Why does Eddie Vedder suddenly get more shit for it than you? You're supporting over-seas jobs JUST AS MUCH AS HE IS by buying the clothes. You're supporting it just as much as he is. Just because he's more public and vocal about opposing it (because he has that ability) doesn't mean he can't have clothing products made in China. Furthermore, there are much better ways to support American jobs than getting clothes manufactured in the US. One of them is voting. Voting for politicians, local and national, who do a good job of creating American jobs. So do that instead of whining.
  • I thought it was a really cool way to get to the tag line "Made in America" --- so at that point i screamed YEAAAAAHHHHH!!!!! because i was at a rock and roll show - where its okay to be excited by every little thing and scream your lungs out and dance like a fool.

    Do i really give a shit what is being said up there ---- no.
    Would it have been cooler if he would have said something about everyone leaving and having sex so we could have a bunch of Made in America babies Made in America! ....... yeah probably
    but then you would have been all over him for being shallow.

    Poor ol Eddie --- he just can't win

    Hes the one that said it I just pointed it out, I never put him down for saying anything
    Tour with fucking NOFX
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 137,138
    i prefer usa ,china,russia,germany,stop producing guns and im ok with t-shirts from china or whereever..
    u guys make sound this china jacket is the worst thing in the planet,and our universe depence from it..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • mtolan514 wrote:
    That's not just Pearl Jam, it's everyone. You can support American jobs but still have Chinese made clothing. Do you think that we should have more jobs in America? Have you ever said that you think we should have more jobs in America as opposed to other countries? I'm sure you do, and I'm sure you have. Where are the clothes you're wearing from? I'm going to guess it's made in China, because it probably is. Why does Eddie Vedder suddenly get more shit for it than you? You're supporting over-seas jobs JUST AS MUCH AS HE IS by buying the clothes. You're supporting it just as much as he is. Just because he's more public and vocal about opposing it (because he has that ability) doesn't mean he can't have clothing products made in China. Furthermore, there are much better ways to support American jobs than getting clothes manufactured in the US. One of them is voting. Voting for politicians, local and national, who do a good job of creating American jobs. So do that instead of whining.

    So Ed cant be called out on somethings? Is he too good for that? I do vote I was just bringing some light to the subject.

    I also never said they couldn't make there clothes in China. I still bought the jacket and would buy it again cuz its pretty bad ass IMO
    Tour with fucking NOFX
  • mfc2006mfc2006 PDX--->KCPosts: 32,942
    i prefer usa ,china,russia,germany,stop producing guns and im ok with t-shirts from china or whereever..
    u guys make sound this china jacket is the worst thing in the planet,and our universe depence from it..

    well said.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
  • i prefer usa ,china,russia,germany,stop producing guns and im ok with t-shirts from china or whereever..
    u guys make sound this china jacket is the worst thing in the planet,and our universe depence from it..

    Where does it say that the jacket is the worse thing on the planet? I own it and love it and plan on wearing the shit out of it when it gets cold...
    Tour with fucking NOFX
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 137,138
    i prefer usa ,china,russia,germany,stop producing guns and im ok with t-shirts from china or whereever..
    u guys make sound this china jacket is the worst thing in the planet,and our universe depence from it..

    Where does it say that the jacket is the worse thing on the planet? I own it and love it and plan on wearing the shit out of it when it gets cold...
    great..enjoy it..im not talking about your coment..is in general the talking on the forum..
    seems we dont have other serious problems,so we end up talking for shirts and jackets,like is the most important thing in the planet,and China is the evil..
    the same people talking about rights and usa jobs,bought aircontition for japan,mobile from china,watch from taiwan,flashlight from hong kong...
    we need a tour and new record and all will forget this in a minute..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • fall by the waysidefall by the wayside Winooski, VTPosts: 614
    "IF YOU HATE SOMETHING DON"T YOU DO IT TOO"

    This is why people want to have this discussion. It never ceases to amaze me how blind defenders of the band come out of the woodwork to marginalize and dismiss any critique that paints PJ in an unflattering way, no matter how legitimate it may be. No one said it was the worst thing on the planet. No one said they weren't a fan of the band anymore. No one said there aren't bigger problems in the world. Just trying to have a discussion on something that, on the surface, appears to be hypocritical. For a band that taught me to question the world around me, and stand up for what I think is right, there sure can be a lack of critical thinking around this place sometimes.
    9/13/98, 10/4/00, 4/29/03, 6/29/03, 7/2/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 9/15/05, 9/16/05, 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 10/30/09, 10/31/09, 5/15/10, 9/11/11, 9/12/11, 10/19/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 10/25/13, 10/27/13, 9/26/15, 4/28/16, 4/29/16, 8/5/16, 8/7/16, 8/13/18, 9/2/18, 9/4/18
  • mtolan514 wrote:
    That's not just Pearl Jam, it's everyone. You can support American jobs but still have Chinese made clothing. Do you think that we should have more jobs in America? Have you ever said that you think we should have more jobs in America as opposed to other countries? I'm sure you do, and I'm sure you have. Where are the clothes you're wearing from? I'm going to guess it's made in China, because it probably is. Why does Eddie Vedder suddenly get more shit for it than you? You're supporting over-seas jobs JUST AS MUCH AS HE IS by buying the clothes. You're supporting it just as much as he is. Just because he's more public and vocal about opposing it (because he has that ability) doesn't mean he can't have clothing products made in China. Furthermore, there are much better ways to support American jobs than getting clothes manufactured in the US. One of them is voting. Voting for politicians, local and national, who do a good job of creating American jobs. So do that instead of whining.

    So Ed cant be called out on somethings? Is he too good for that? I do vote I was just bringing some light to the subject.

    I also never said they couldn't make there clothes in China. I still bought the jacket and would buy it again cuz its pretty bad ass IMO

    With all the annoying ranting about the band's "questionable ethics" right now, it's just getting supremely obnoxious. It seems like people are just getting extremely picky and prickly about issues they haven't had any qualms about before--ready to pounce on the band for anything. You might make a good point, maybe Eddie could have said "let's get the jackets made in the US", but let's put these situations into context. Jackets were made, probably weeks or months ago. Band probably has no input on them, doesn't even think about them. Fast-forward to MIA, Eddie says he supports keeping jobs in America, in a concert atmosphere, to a crowd, at a gig called "Made in America". If we treated everything Eddie Vedder says during shows so seriously as people are doing now...god help us all. The man makes no sense so much. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive him for not considering that an article of clothing his band sells might be made in China when he was slightly intoxicated and playing to several thousand people.

    FURTHERMORE, I'm a bit of a realist, and I argue that a clothes-manufacturing US is not the US we are anymore. We live in a global society, in a very compartmentalized society. One thing is produced in Brazil, another in China, another in Indonesia, and it's all assembled in Taiwan. We don't live in the 1960s anymore. There are other nations in this world besides the USSR and the USA, and a lot of them have different labor laws. Face it. America should focus on keeping the jobs we can affordably, realistically and practically keep. I don't see clothes fitting the bill on that one. This isn't a diatribe against you, and I don't know what EV's thoughts are on this, but it's what I think and makes his "hypocrisy" a little more justified.

    P.S. I'm not a "Blind defender of the band". I'm a firm believer in that people make mistakes and people are imperfect. What I see from so many people here is something quite the opposite--in fact, people hold this band to unreasonable god standards, and any deviation from that is sinful and should be picked apart and made to seem as if it's the end of the world. I think this is a non-issue, therefore, because sometimes bands (which are made up of *gasp* people) do things that are extremely indirectly hypocritical. I don't think it should bother the OP nearly as much as it did.
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam NINUNINOPROPosts: 137,138
    "IF YOU HATE SOMETHING DON"T YOU DO IT TOO"

    This is why people want to have this discussion. It never ceases to amaze me how blind defenders of the band come out of the woodwork to marginalize and dismiss any critique that paints PJ in an unflattering way, no matter how legitimate it may be. No one said it was the worst thing on the planet. No one said they weren't a fan of the band anymore. No one said there aren't bigger problems in the world. Just trying to have a discussion on something that, on the surface, appears to be hypocritical. For a band that taught me to question the world around me, and stand up for what I think is right, there sure can be a lack of critical thinking around this place sometimes.
    we did..days now..people care more for a guy's beard than how the jacket looks..just to point negative shit..
    pj no need anyone aproval or support to do what they do..
    they sell jackets from china,they will not ask you or me..
    there is a thread about mike solo of black at mia festival that was unreal and 5 people only post..
    and we have 10 thread about a jacket from china..
    and no pj taught me to question the world,and stand up..my country history of 10000 years ,the one brought democracy,mathematics,medical to the world,My Ancestors ,my parents, school,,are more important than a rock band..
    Blind defender of the band my ass..its a rock band that i love their music..im not gona analyse all their moves..
    they can do whatever the fuck they want..
    if i can afford,and still like them,ill go their shows and buy they records
    'i didnt sign any contract with them,ill love them for ever..
    i just dont wake up in the morning and try to find the detail of the detail,to say that they arent the same anymore and they are not the rebels i dream they was..
    i just put their records and listen them.
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • fall by the waysidefall by the wayside Winooski, VTPosts: 614
    mtolan514 wrote:
    mtolan514 wrote:
    That's not just Pearl Jam, it's everyone. You can support American jobs but still have Chinese made clothing. Do you think that we should have more jobs in America? Have you ever said that you think we should have more jobs in America as opposed to other countries? I'm sure you do, and I'm sure you have. Where are the clothes you're wearing from? I'm going to guess it's made in China, because it probably is. Why does Eddie Vedder suddenly get more shit for it than you? You're supporting over-seas jobs JUST AS MUCH AS HE IS by buying the clothes. You're supporting it just as much as he is. Just because he's more public and vocal about opposing it (because he has that ability) doesn't mean he can't have clothing products made in China. Furthermore, there are much better ways to support American jobs than getting clothes manufactured in the US. One of them is voting. Voting for politicians, local and national, who do a good job of creating American jobs. So do that instead of whining.

    So Ed cant be called out on somethings? Is he too good for that? I do vote I was just bringing some light to the subject.

    I also never said they couldn't make there clothes in China. I still bought the jacket and would buy it again cuz its pretty bad ass IMO

    With all the annoying ranting about the band's "questionable ethics" right now, it's just getting supremely obnoxious. It seems like people are just getting extremely picky and prickly about issues they haven't had any qualms about before--ready to pounce on the band for anything. You might make a good point, maybe Eddie could have said "let's get the jackets made in the US", but let's put these situations into context. Jackets were made, probably weeks or months ago. Band probably has no input on them, doesn't even think about them. Fast-forward to MIA, Eddie says he supports keeping jobs in America, in a concert atmosphere, to a crowd, at a gig called "Made in America". If we treated everything Eddie Vedder says during shows so seriously as people are doing now...god help us all. The man makes no sense so much. I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive him for not considering that an article of clothing his band sells might be made in China when he was slightly intoxicated and playing to several thousand people.

    FURTHERMORE, I'm a bit of a realist, and I argue that a clothes-manufacturing US is not the US we are anymore. We live in a global society, in a very compartmentalized society. One thing is produced in Brazil, another in China, another in Indonesia, and it's all assembled in Taiwan. We don't live in the 1960s anymore. There are other nations in this world besides the USSR and the USA, and a lot of them have different labor laws. Face it. America should focus on keeping the jobs we can affordably, realistically and practically keep. I don't see clothes fitting the bill on that one. This isn't a diatribe against you, and I don't know what EV's thoughts are on this, but it's what I think and makes his "hypocrisy" a little more justified.

    P.S. I'm not a "Blind defender of the band". I'm a firm believer in that people make mistakes and people are imperfect. What I see from so many people here is something quite the opposite--in fact, people hold this band to unreasonable god standards, and any deviation from that is sinful and should be picked apart and made to seem as if it's the end of the world. I think this is a non-issue, therefore, because sometimes bands (which are made up of *gasp* people) do things that are extremely indirectly hypocritical. I don't think it should bother the OP nearly as much as it did.

    I would be inclined to agree with many of your points on manufacturing. However you again dive into non-sense hyperbole about "unreasonable god standards," "sinful," "end of the world" blah blah blah to describe people here who simply disagree with you. Maybe the reason for all the "supremely obnoxious" "annoying ranting" from those people is due to the fact that this band spent the greater part of their career setting standards for themselves that their current actions increasingly disagree with. I agree that people are imperfect and make mistakes. This isn't a non-issue to everyone, so what's the big deal in critiquing?
    9/13/98, 10/4/00, 4/29/03, 6/29/03, 7/2/03, 9/28/04, 9/29/04, 9/15/05, 9/16/05, 5/12/06, 5/13/06, 6/27/08, 6/28/08, 6/30/08, 10/30/09, 10/31/09, 5/15/10, 9/11/11, 9/12/11, 10/19/13, 10/21/13, 10/22/13, 10/25/13, 10/27/13, 9/26/15, 4/28/16, 4/29/16, 8/5/16, 8/7/16, 8/13/18, 9/2/18, 9/4/18
  • Kelly Leak wrote:
    Show was great but the one thing that kinda bugs me is Ed starts talking about how jobs should be created in America, which is fine I agree 1000% but the problem is the jacket being sold at the show was made in China.

    It has stuck with me for a few days and figured I would share it.

    It is worth sharing. PJ is authentic as they come, but we live in a dollars-and-cents(sense also applies here) world. PJ is a business. Making clothing in China makes economic sense. Making clothing in the USA would cause a spike in cost that would send most consumers into a coma.

    America has become the most spoiled country in the history of the world.


    This would make sense if most of the merch was less expensive. I'm a die hard fan and have been since the bands inception but when you have a zipper hoody that is paper thin and you're selling it for $85 bucks and it's made in China I think there is enough room in there to find an American supplier. That being said the band probably isn't in control of who buys the shirts. Yes they approve the artwork but you have to consider that while it seems they are buying foreign product perhaps the American company that prints the shirts get them which is usually the case. Either way I can't wait till 2013!!!
    Makes much more sense.................
    To Live......................
    In the present tense.
  • SVRDhand13 wrote:
    DewieCox wrote:
    I'm with the op on this one. If you're gonna spout off shit from the stage to try and get a rise out of the crowd/preach make sure you're doing what you can to help the change. Sure it's 1000 jackets, but that's 1000 jackets that didn't have to be made in China.

    Unfortunately this type of hypocrisy is becoming more and more common in the PJ camp.

    I bet EV doesnt even know that those jackets were made in China. Hell, I'd bet he doesnt even know those jackets exist :lol:.

    This ^^^^^
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • i prefer usa ,china,russia,germany,stop producing guns and im ok with t-shirts from china or whereever..
    u guys make sound this china jacket is the worst thing in the planet,and our universe depence from it..
    Why stop producing guns?? People kill people not guns. Do pencils misspell words? Don't like guns? Do t buy them. End of story. Fact: every nation that banned guns their own government killed their own people. Fact!! :nono: this about cloths not guns D. :fp:
    In my lifetime, I have conquered the Multiverse by force of trUth.
  • i prefer usa ,china,russia,germany,stop producing guns and im ok with t-shirts from china or whereever..
    u guys make sound this china jacket is the worst thing in the planet,and our universe depence from it..

    Bann vehicles too! :fp:
    In my lifetime, I have conquered the Multiverse by force of trUth.
  • I would be inclined to agree with many of your points on manufacturing. However you again dive into non-sense hyperbole about "unreasonable god standards," "sinful," "end of the world" blah blah blah to describe people here who simply disagree with you. Maybe the reason for all the "supremely obnoxious" "annoying ranting" from those people is due to the fact that this band spent the greater part of their career setting standards for themselves that their current actions increasingly disagree with. I agree that people are imperfect and make mistakes. This isn't a non-issue to everyone, so what's the big deal in critiquing?

    I'm not the one using hyperbole here haha :lol: I suppose I understand people being upset about it, but not to the extent they are. Critique, fine. But saying Eddie Vedder, most likely unknowingly, had jackets for sale that were from China and not the USA committed a "fast cash grab"? Hrm....:?

    I think part of it is perspective. I haven't been around with this band as long as many of you, and I don't have the same experience with those standards being set. That's a fair point--I didn't see it like that. This band has had reputation of, well, not doing stuff like this for a long time, and you've grown up with that. Personally though, and this tails in with the Orca show, I think bands, just like people, change. You're obviously a different person in your 40s than you were in your idealistic 20s. Sometimes the change sucks, but sometimes it brings positive things along too. The band does a lot of things now, with the experience and change of age, that they didn't do in 1995. I mean look at Stone's charity work with forests and stuff. So yes, I understand that this 2012 Pearl Jam goes against the standards of old, and I understand that by the 1995 standards, they ought to be critiqued. Maybe even by the 2012 standards they should be critiqued too; Eddie should put more effort into practicing what he preaches. But I just believe that our standards have to change and adapt. Maybe a some critiquing is necessary, but I just think the energy the band doesn't put in one area (i.e. manufacturing shirts in America), they do put in another (i.e. hosting a massive fundraiser in Montana for a guy they believe will create more jobs in America).
  • DrdealDrdeal Posts: 597
    Shirts were made in USA. Hoodies prob were a different story. At least they tried.

    Andrew
  • Lukin19Lukin19 We The NorthPosts: 445
    "IF YOU HATE SOMETHING DON"T YOU DO IT TOO"

    This is why people want to have this discussion. It never ceases to amaze me how blind defenders of the band come out of the woodwork to marginalize and dismiss any critique that paints PJ in an unflattering way, no matter how legitimate it may be. No one said it was the worst thing on the planet. No one said they weren't a fan of the band anymore. No one said there aren't bigger problems in the world. Just trying to have a discussion on something that, on the surface, appears to be hypocritical. For a band that taught me to question the world around me, and stand up for what I think is right, there sure can be a lack of critical thinking around this place sometimes.

    Very well said.
  • Tboz51Tboz51 Posts: 2,808
    Yes China is a very evil place.
    Yes I don't appreciate those in these threads who sound like PJ lap dog dopes.
    Yes it is difficult for me to bash PJ, look at my fucking avatar.

    But....

    This jacket is a total shame, people who can't see that are focused on themselves and not those around them.

    China is a slave labor country. They pay very little and take it all.

    It is impossible to shop at Meijers, WalMart or anywhere that isn't a produce or food market and not buy cheaply made Chinese crap.

    I've never once stood on a stage for 20,000 people and told them the evils of other countries, man or anything. To flip it around and become the evil of that man.

    The original poster is correct. It is a abortion of good sense at the "made in America" festival to talk about American jobs as you sell Chinese shit!

    As much as I love, respect and care for all of you (yes all of you) I see some of you as blatant dumbasses in this thread string.

    The debate isn't about loyalty or love of the music. It is about suffering people in a terribly persecuted country making PJ a single 1$ richer.

    Unacceptable!

    edit: this argument could be made about Chris Brown and beating women... sure he is a bad guy, but damn can he sing and dance... "come on... just listen to his music people!"

    Not a fan of women abusers either... Either is Eddie Vedder... If Ed ends up playing some shows with Chris Brown I will have a MASSIVE problem with this.... Don't say "that'll never happen" because Jay-Z is as scummy of a human being alive and I have had several threads locked in here telling his true nature.
    Research Jay-Z plays for Khaddfi's sons... Then you can see what I am saying.... Could care less of his music either.

    Don't really care that PJ played with him.... But facts are clear facts... You can't change them no matter how great the music is.

    As a 10C member and loyal fan please don't ask me (as a band for 20 years) to be socially active and human rights sensitive and expect me to then turn a blind eye.
    "Honesty will always be construed as negative to a dumbass"
    :-)
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,255
    Tboz51 wrote:
    Yes China is a very evil place.
    Yes I don't appreciate those in these threads who sound like PJ lap dog dopes.
    Yes it is difficult for me to bash PJ, look at my fucking avatar.

    But....

    This jacket is a total shame, people who can't see that are focused on themselves and not those around them.

    China is a slave labor country. They pay very little and take it all.

    It is impossible to shop at Meijers, WalMart or anywhere that isn't a produce or food market and not buy cheaply made Chinese crap.

    I've never once stood on a stage for 20,000 people and told them the evils of other countries, man or anything. To flip it around and become the evil of that man.

    The original poster is correct. It is a abortion of good sense at the "made in America" festival to talk about American jobs as you sell Chinese shit!

    As much as I love, respect and care for all of you (yes all of you) I see some of you as blatant dumbasses in this thread string.

    The debate isn't about loyalty or love of the music. It is about suffering people in a terribly persecuted country making PJ a single 1$ richer.

    Unacceptable!

    edit: this argument could be made about Chris Brown and beating women... sure he is a bad guy, but damn can he sing and dance... "come on... just listen to his music people!"

    Not a fan of women abusers either... Either is Eddie Vedder... If Ed ends up playing some shows with Chris Brown I will have a MASSIVE problem with this.... Don't say "that'll never happen" because Jay-Z is as scummy of a human being alive and I have had several threads locked in here telling his true nature.
    Research Jay-Z plays for Khaddfi's sons... Then you can see what I am saying.... Could care less of his music either.

    Don't really care that PJ played with him.... But facts are clear facts... You can't change them no matter how great the music is.

    As a 10C member and loyal fan please don't ask me (as a band for 20 years) to be socially active and human rights sensitive and expect me to then turn a blind eye.

    With this being said, how do you resolve the issue of buying and owning things made in China?
  • NamiNami NewfoundlandPosts: 5,823
    Hey... when I posted my comment on page one my position was simple... it has been said and done and it cannot be changed. Instead of letting this issue hinder their awesome night with the show, let it go.... Now it is on page 4 and it is still being talked about, not to mention other threads that this is being discussed.

    I guess I just find it difficult to understand that coming from a PJ concert people would be focusing on this one issue from the night. I am always amazed at the post show feeling I get... one of amazement, satisfaction, etc. and it last for weeks. I hope they come back to Canada next year... damn I need my fix.

    The music is what brought me here, not the bands politics or beliefs... I have my own and I live my life accordingly.
    Hamilton 9-13-05; Toronto 5-9-06, Toronto 8-21-09, Toronto 9-12-11, Hamilton 9-15-11....
  • Tboz51 wrote:
    Yes China is a very evil place.
    Yes I don't appreciate those in these threads who sound like PJ lap dog dopes.
    Yes it is difficult for me to bash PJ, look at my fucking avatar.

    But....

    This jacket is a total shame, people who can't see that are focused on themselves and not those around them.

    China is a slave labor country. They pay very little and take it all.

    It is impossible to shop at Meijers, WalMart or anywhere that isn't a produce or food market and not buy cheaply made Chinese crap.

    I've never once stood on a stage for 20,000 people and told them the evils of other countries, man or anything. To flip it around and become the evil of that man.

    The original poster is correct. It is a abortion of good sense at the "made in America" festival to talk about American jobs as you sell Chinese shit!

    As much as I love, respect and care for all of you (yes all of you) I see some of you as blatant dumbasses in this thread string.

    The debate isn't about loyalty or love of the music. It is about suffering people in a terribly persecuted country making PJ a single 1$ richer.

    Unacceptable!

    edit: this argument could be made about Chris Brown and beating women... sure he is a bad guy, but damn can he sing and dance... "come on... just listen to his music people!"

    Not a fan of women abusers either... Either is Eddie Vedder... If Ed ends up playing some shows with Chris Brown I will have a MASSIVE problem with this.... Don't say "that'll never happen" because Jay-Z is as scummy of a human being alive and I have had several threads locked in here telling his true nature.
    Research Jay-Z plays for Khaddfi's sons... Then you can see what I am saying.... Could care less of his music either.

    Don't really care that PJ played with him.... But facts are clear facts... You can't change them no matter how great the music is.

    As a 10C member and loyal fan please don't ask me (as a band for 20 years) to be socially active and human rights sensitive and expect me to then turn a blind eye.

    First, while I appreciate a lot of your arguments, I do not appreciate your disagreeing with people like me and simply just saying we're "lap dogs" or whatever. That's not a very sound or mature way to have a disagreement. I'm not blindly agreeing with whatever the band does, but I do feel like this can be justified more than people think. Just because we might not see eye to eye, that doesn't make me a "blatant dumbass", it just means we disagree. I think it's a shame that PJ had Chinese shirts sold at the Made in America festival, but if you read some of my other points, I think you can, justifiably, do both things simultaneously and be ethically ok, given some of PJ's other activities. It can go either way, really. You can make a case for both. So calm down.

    Second, you kind of just hijacked the thread to talk about why you don't like Jay-Z. We're not talking about Jay-Z at all, and it's not fair to just derail this argument in favor of making discussion about that a topic that, according to you, got locked multiple times. Interesting point though-where do you draw the line of indirect association? I personally think a spontaneous collaboration with another big name artist (and from all that we've read, it was pretty spontaneous in fact) does not mean that PJ in any way shape or form might condone every single aspect about Jay-Z. Nor does it mean that Jay-Z condones everything about PJ, and every facet of the morality of those bandmembers' lives. I think in a case like this, you can have mutual musical respect for someone regardless of ethics. That's one of the great things about music--it can be extremely transcendent. I don't share the views of many PJ fans, but I still go to concerts with them, are friendly with them and have a kickass time because we have this common denominator. To shun anyone from your life or passion due to whatever ethical qualms you might have about them is to live a life of isolation and poverty. It's not like PJ is recording an album with Jay-Z. And where do yo draw the line, as I said earlier? Pearl Jam has VERY much associated with Chris Cornell. Chris Cornell made an album with Timbaland. Timbaland has worked with Jay-Z. Jay-Z dealt drugs and did questionable things. You see how this just goes ad absurdum? Just enjoy, or not enjoy, the musical collaboration and what it mainly, not subtlety, symbolizes: respect for another's craft. Sorry I got off track, this just was bugging me.
  • Tboz51Tboz51 Posts: 2,808
    mtolan514 wrote:
    Tboz51 wrote:
    Yes China is a very evil place.
    Yes I don't appreciate those in these threads who sound like PJ lap dog dopes.
    Yes it is difficult for me to bash PJ, look at my fucking avatar.

    But....

    This jacket is a total shame, people who can't see that are focused on themselves and not those around them.

    China is a slave labor country. They pay very little and take it all.

    It is impossible to shop at Meijers, WalMart or anywhere that isn't a produce or food market and not buy cheaply made Chinese crap.

    I've never once stood on a stage for 20,000 people and told them the evils of other countries, man or anything. To flip it around and become the evil of that man.

    The original poster is correct. It is a abortion of good sense at the "made in America" festival to talk about American jobs as you sell Chinese shit!

    As much as I love, respect and care for all of you (yes all of you) I see some of you as blatant dumbasses in this thread string.

    The debate isn't about loyalty or love of the music. It is about suffering people in a terribly persecuted country making PJ a single 1$ richer.

    Unacceptable!

    edit: this argument could be made about Chris Brown and beating women... sure he is a bad guy, but damn can he sing and dance... "come on... just listen to his music people!"

    Not a fan of women abusers either... Either is Eddie Vedder... If Ed ends up playing some shows with Chris Brown I will have a MASSIVE problem with this.... Don't say "that'll never happen" because Jay-Z is as scummy of a human being alive and I have had several threads locked in here telling his true nature.
    Research Jay-Z plays for Khaddfi's sons... Then you can see what I am saying.... Could care less of his music either.

    Don't really care that PJ played with him.... But facts are clear facts... You can't change them no matter how great the music is.

    As a 10C member and loyal fan please don't ask me (as a band for 20 years) to be socially active and human rights sensitive and expect me to then turn a blind eye.

    First, while I appreciate a lot of your arguments, I do not appreciate your disagreeing with people like me and simply just saying we're "lap dogs" or whatever. That's not a very sound or mature way to have a disagreement. I'm not blindly agreeing with whatever the band does, but I do feel like this can be justified more than people think. Just because we might not see eye to eye, that doesn't make me a "blatant dumbass", it just means we disagree. I think it's a shame that PJ had Chinese shirts sold at the Made in America festival, but if you read some of my other points, I think you can, justifiably, do both things simultaneously and be ethically ok, given some of PJ's other activities. It can go either way, really. You can make a case for both. So calm down.

    Second, you kind of just hijacked the thread to talk about why you don't like Jay-Z. We're not talking about Jay-Z at all, and it's not fair to just derail this argument in favor of making discussion about that a topic that, according to you, got locked multiple times. Interesting point though-where do you draw the line of indirect association? I personally think a spontaneous collaboration with another big name artist (and from all that we've read, it was pretty spontaneous in fact) does not mean that PJ in any way shape or form might condone every single aspect about Jay-Z. Nor does it mean that Jay-Z condones everything about PJ, and every facet of the morality of those bandmembers' lives. I think in a case like this, you can have mutual musical respect for someone regardless of ethics. That's one of the great things about music--it can be extremely transcendent. I don't share the views of many PJ fans, but I still go to concerts with them, are friendly with them and have a kickass time because we have this common denominator. To shun anyone from your life or passion due to whatever ethical qualms you might have about them is to live a life of isolation and poverty. It's not like PJ is recording an album with Jay-Z. And where do yo draw the line, as I said earlier? Pearl Jam has VERY much associated with Chris Cornell. Chris Cornell made an album with Timbaland. Timbaland has worked with Jay-Z. Jay-Z dealt drugs and did questionable things. You see how this just goes ad absurdum? Just enjoy, or not enjoy, the musical collaboration and what it mainly, not subtlety, symbolizes: respect for another's craft. Sorry I got off track, this just was bugging me.

    My point wasn't to side track the argument only make the point that my thoughts aren't really based on Jay Z, but used Chris Brown collaborations as an example of "never say" it couldn't happen.

    It is very very easy for a multi million dollar organization to NEVER purchase a single thing made in China. If this was Nickelback and Chad Kroeger opted to speak against atrocities against women, children, men, country, states, wrongly accused... Then turned around and sold stuff in the parking lot I would see trouble with him too... But to my knowledge they haven't openly railed against these things in a public forum.

    I never directed my comment of dumbass at anyone in specific. Although Kat had to discipline me again for having a distain for some people. I was just being honest about how i feel, and I could point directly at specific disrespectful comments that these mods just accidentally don't see. Do not take what I said as a direct insult at you. It was not meant at anyone specifically. So if you were I offended I am sorry.

    I completely disagree on this specific topic of using Chinese labor for quick profit.

    I have little option for some things I purchase in my life, but then again I have never openly stood in from of thousands of people and preached my double standard.

    If this thread gets my status as read only I will just have my wife finish the giveaway I am doing and not resign with this club again.

    Although I don't agree with your argument, you at least make one.
    "Honesty will always be construed as negative to a dumbass"
    :-)
  • Tboz51 wrote:
    Yes China is a very evil place.
    China is a slave labor country. They pay very little and take it all.
    It's all relative. And -- do you have any knowledge on the conditions where these jackets were made?
    Also, how to make China more "open" if not through trade and communication? Wait for a bloody revolution? Or just put a lid on and focus on only buying american-made stuff?

    What has helped the Chinese people the most through the years? Trading with them and opening up the country? Or sitting with your arms cross and wait for them to change their rule?

    Is it better to turn them into North Korea and hope for them to implode?

    And you know, a lot of people are looking at USA in a sort-of-similar way.
    Why should the clothes even be made in USA were the unions aren't that strong, people get lousy payed and has to work 3 jobs to survive, there's no "free" health care, death penalty, a president can lie himself into war,, The country can't stop its own people from eating themselves to XXXXXXXXXXXL-sizes and death and the country has a fucked up bank-system?

    So why stop with not making stuff in China? Pearl Jam are hypocrites if they don't move their buisness and HQ to some other country than USA. Some European country.

    Shouldn't all Pearl Jams merch be made in e.g Norway/Denmark/Finland or Sweden then?
    Strong unions. Free healthcare. No death penalty. More controlled bank-system. etc etc etc.

    If it's all black and white, they should move all their shit here. Yeah. Sounds fare.
  • Tboz51Tboz51 Posts: 2,808
    Tboz51 wrote:
    Yes China is a very evil place.
    China is a slave labor country. They pay very little and take it all.
    It's all relative. And -- do you have any knowledge on the conditions where these jackets were made?

    And you know, a lot of people are looking at USA with a similair look.
    Why should the clothes even be made in USA were the unions aren't that strong, people get lousy payed and has to work 3 jobs to survive, there's no "free" health care, death penalty, a president can lie himself into war,, The country can't stop its own people from eating themselves to XXXXXXXXXXXL-sizes and death and the country has a fucked up bank-system?

    So why stop with not making stuff in China? Pearl Jam are hypocrites if they don't move their buisness and HQ to some other country than USA. Some European country.

    Shouldn't all Pearl Jams merch be made in e.g Norway/Denmark/Finland or Sweden then?
    Strong unions. Free healthcare. No death penalty. More controlled bank-system. etc etc etc.

    If it's all black and white, they should move all their shit here. Yeah. Sounds fare.

    More rhetoric away from the main point. Avoiding the point that was originally made.

    Practice that which you preach.

    Doesn't matter if the jackets were made in Mexico..... So that part you can hold against me. I do think China is very very unbalanced although (apparently) some of you think that the communist run country has some big hearted loving companies that churn out Pearl Jam gear. I am pretty convinced it doesn't exist. So in that we are neither right.

    Some people in here think it is okay to openly call for more American jobs (while Chinese merchandise is out in the booths).

    Some people in here see it as a double standard.

    I hope the clothes they sell keeps people warm and safe which is what all clothes are for... But it doesn't change my opinion based on the preaching I have heard for 20 years. Say la vi

    I have never said the death penalty, health care or any of that was relevant. So perhaps you could open a new thread we could argue those points?
    "Honesty will always be construed as negative to a dumbass"
    :-)
  • Tboz51 wrote:
    I have never said the death penalty, health care or any of that was relevant. So perhaps you could open a new thread we could argue those points?
    Well...
    Why would it be double standard wanting more jobs in the USA and also wanting more jobs in other parts of the world?

    Lets say you think that poverty is a big problem in the USA and believe somthing needs to be done about it - can you not at the same time donate money to help the poor in Africa?

    :)
  • **note to self** China is NOT gonna be Tboz51 babys name... ;)

    narrowing it down now... :lol::lol:
    "It's so nice to hear that in other parts of the world, the stress- borne from envy- that one finds for themselves is the animosity they develop towards a person selling a box of records. How fortunate!" ~ Thirty Bills Unpaid

    MLMF NYC
  • Tboz51Tboz51 Posts: 2,808
    edited September 2012
    Tboz51 wrote:
    I have never said the death penalty, health care or any of that was relevant. So perhaps you could open a new thread we could argue those points?
    Well...
    Why would it be double standard wanting more jobs in the USA and also wanting more jobs in other parts of the world?

    Lets say you think that poverty is a big problem in the USA and believe somthing needs to be done about it - can you not at the same time donate money to help the poor in Africa?

    :)

    Again, I am not the person who has spent 20 years on a soap box reminding others to be aware of their social responsibilities.

    I do not donate any money to any organization other then the Wish List foundation.

    But wouldn't complain of others if they wanted to help out.

    I don't see any of what PJ is doing as some sort of social giving. More of a fast cash grab.

    Pearl Jam and its members are not donating money to a Chinese organization, they are using those people as all other fast easy money organization does in this country. Walmart as a good example.... I forget, what does Ed think of Walmart again?

    Perhaps if the 10c would address this and give us all the name of this fine Chinese company that they used so we can use them in future venture.

    The double standard is using a stage to talk about how you want American's to have more jobs as you have clearly sold out to buy cheap Chinese goods.

    This is all about $$$$$$$
    Post edited by Tboz51 on
    "Honesty will always be construed as negative to a dumbass"
    :-)
  • Tboz51Tboz51 Posts: 2,808
    **note to self** China is NOT gonna be Tboz51 babys name... ;)

    narrowing it down now... :lol::lol:

    :lol::lol:
    "Honesty will always be construed as negative to a dumbass"
    :-)
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 7,255
    Tboz51 wrote:
    Tboz51 wrote:
    I have never said the death penalty, health care or any of that was relevant. So perhaps you could open a new thread we could argue those points?
    Well...
    Why would it be double standard wanting more jobs in the USA and also wanting more jobs in other parts of the world?

    Lets say you think that poverty is a big problem in the USA and believe somthing needs to be done about it - can you not at the same time donate money to help the poor in Africa?

    :)

    Again, I am not the person who has spent 20 years on a soap box reminding others to be aware of their social responsibilities.

    I do not donate any money to any organization other then the Wish List foundation.

    But wouldn't complain of others if they wanted to help out.

    I don't see any of what PJ is doing as some sort of social giving. More of a fast cash grab.

    Pearl Jam and its members are not donating money to a Chinese organization, they are using those people as all other fast easy money organization does in this country. Walmart as a good example.... I forget, what does Ed think of Walmart again?

    Perhaps if the 10c would address this and give us all the name of this fine Chinese company that they used so we can use them in future venture.

    The double standard is using a stage to talk about how you want American's to have more jobs as you have clearly sold out to buy cheap Chinese goods.

    This is all about $$$$$$$

    If your issue is about practicing what you preach, then again, how do you resolve the issue of your own purchasing of Chinese goods? You may not be on stage, but you have an audience in here.
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