http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/ ... ion-museum
While at the museum I spent some time talking to geologist Andrew Snelling. Another Australian, Snelling has a PhD in geology from the University of Sydney and worked in various capacities for the Australian mining industry before getting into "creation science" full time, first for the Texas-based Institute for Creation Research, and then since 2007 for Answers in Genesis and the Creation Museum.
I mention to Andrew that I'm surprised to see animatronic models and fossils of dinosaurs around the museum. "They were real, we have their bones … in fact the Bible even potentially describes creatures that were dinosaurs. We don't have to be afraid of the real evidence," he says. "We're looking at the fossil record – instead of being the order of creatures living and dying and evolving over millions of years – as the burial order during the flood. In other words, dinosaurs were alive during the pre-flood Earth. So were trilobites, so were people."
I don't believe in creationism but everyone is entitled to their own beliefs...
And when those beliefs start entering the education system and corrupting the children, you have no problem with that either?
I think this fella makes a good point. Though I expect you'll disagree and label him intolerant?
American scientist William Sanford "Bill" Nye:
"And I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, in your world that's completely inconsistent with everything we observe in the universe, that's fine, but don't make your kids do it because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need people that can — we need engineers that can build stuff, solve problems."
Looks like I'm not alone. I wonder if hostis would also describe all these people as intolerant?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_M ... _criticism
The Creation Museum has been the subject of controversy ever since it was proposed, because the exhibits are based on a young Earth creationist view of the origins of the universe and life. Local opposition caused the construction approval process to take several years. During construction Robert Winston visited the site of the museum during the filming of his documentary "The Story of God" and remarked,
"I admit I was dismayed by what I saw at the Ken Ham museum. It was alarming to see so much time, money and effort being spent on making a mockery of hard won scientific knowledge. And the fact that it was being done with such obvious sincerity, somehow made it all the worse."[48]
Educators criticizing the museum include the National Center for Science Education.[31] The NCSE collected over 800 signatures from scientists in the three states closest to the museum (Kentucky, Indiana, and Ohio) on the following statement:
"We, the undersigned scientists at universities and colleges in Kentucky, Ohio, and Indiana, are concerned about scientifically inaccurate materials at the Answers in Genesis museum. Students who accept this material as scientifically valid are unlikely to succeed in science courses at the college level. These students will need remedial instruction in the nature of science, as well as in the specific areas of science misrepresented by Answers in Genesis."[49]
NCSE director Eugenie Scott characterized the Creation Museum as "the Creationist Disneyland."[17] The Guardian called the facility "quite possibly ... one of the weirdest museums in the world."[32] Physicist Lawrence Krauss has called on media, educators, and government officials to shun the museum and says that its view is based on falsehoods.[50] Krauss said that the facility is "as much a disservice to religion as it is to science."[51]
The introduction to a May 2007 Good Morning America report on the museum stated that according to an ABC news poll, 60% of Americans believe that "God created the world in six days." The report stated that the Creation Museum was aimed at convincing visitors that evolution is wrong, and that the Biblical story of life on earth from Adam and Eve to Noah's ark is scientifically verifiable.[53] In a March 2007 Newsweek poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International, 48% of respondents agreed with the statement "God created humans pretty much in the present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so."[54]
The museum has also been criticized by Christians who are not young Earth creationists. Notable among them is geologist Greg Neyman of Answers in Creation, an old earth creationism ministry. Neyman released a press kit dealing with the museum's grand opening in which he said:
"Those who will benefit least from the museum are the non-Christians, who are firmly grounded in their belief through modern science that the Earth is billions of years old. They will see the museum, and recognize its faulty science, and will be turned away from the church. This will increase the already widening gap between the unchurched and the churched. This gap is the direct result of young Earth creationism."[6]
Neyman adds that "today, the church is comprised of many individuals who accept an old Earth" and "is already moving away from young Earth creationism."[6] The Rev. Mendle Adams, pastor of St. Peter's United Church of Christ in Cincinnati, Ohio, joined others, both secularists and Christians, at protests at the museum's opening. He said "my brothers and sisters in the faith who embrace [the creationist] understanding call into question the whole Christian concept" and "make us a laughing stock."[5] Roman Catholic theologian John Haught sees little merit in the museum, saying it will cause an "impoverishment" of religion. He concluded "It's hard for me to come up with a single reason why we should be doing this. ... It's theologically problematic to me, as well as scientifically problematic."[55] Michael Patrick Leahy, editor of the magazine Christian Faith and Reason, says that by replacing the scientific method with biblical literalism, the museum undermines the credibility of all Christians and makes it easy to represent Christians as irrational.[56]
Lisa Park, a professor of paleontology at University of Akron who is also an Elder in the Presbyterian Church was particularly disturbed by the museum's depiction that war, famine and natural disasters are the result of a belief in evolution. She stated:
"I think it's very bad science and even worse theology... and the theology is far more offensive to me. I think there's a lot of focus on fear, and I don't think that's a very Christian message... I find it a malicious manipulation of the public."[57]
In 2010, A. A. Gill reported it is "a breathtakingly literal march through Genesis, without any hint of soul." "This place doesn't just take on evolution—it squares off with geology, anthropology, paleontology, history, chemistry, astronomy, zoology, biology, and good taste. It directly and boldly contradicts most -onomies and all -ologies, including most theology."
Then you include a cryptic reference to Nazi Germany that doesn't quite say that American Christians are comparable to Nazis, but doesn't exactly quite say anything else, either. It comes off as another cheap shot at a worldview you don't subscribe to, while leaving yourself just enough wiggle room to say, "oh, who me? where did I say anyone was comparable to Nazis? show me where I said that!" So, kudos to you on that masterful effort.
A 'cryptic reference to Nazi Germany that doesn't quite say that American Christians are comparable to Nazis'? Nah, it was nothing of the sort, as you know. Though I see you've done your very best to try and twist my words. No kudos to you though, because your effort is lame and pathetic.
In my reply to the question from hostis: "but how would it affect you if that happened anyway?"
I said: "How did Nazism effect anybody outside of Germany? Dangerous ideas have dangerous consequences."
Nothing to do with comparing Christians to Nazis, as any honest person can see.
My personal Worldview isn't intolerant of anything except bullshit. And Creationism is bullshit as any rational thinking person will agree.
Your first reference to Hitler was not in response to anything:
I don't believe in creationism but everyone is entitled to their own beliefs...
And when those beliefs start entering the education system and corrupting the children, you have no problem with that either?
No, I don't because as people evolve and change and learn they change their mind, they form opinions that are not of their upbringing and not of their parents. I have vastly differing views of the world around in comparison to when I was in my teens, 20s or 30s. You evolve and you learn, and a lot of the time it is through discussion with people who believe vastly different things to you do you view the world in a different way.
So are you implying here that people should only be educated what is known to be true and not to give them different views to enable them to make up their own mind and form their own beliefs?
You also have a VERY big stretch to go until creationism becomes a mainstream educational role in the USA or any western developed country for that matter.... for now and for the future, creationism will become a smaller and smaller footnote in the evolution of man...
Hitler and the Nazis also had some pretty wacky notions about the World too. Look what happened when people began taking them seriously.
It was in response to you getting on your high horse and claiming I posted the article as an attack on Christians. It wasn't. It was posted in order to draw attention to extremists creating a wacky museum that teaches people to believe in fantasies and reject science.
When people start taking extremists seriously then it can lead to all sorts of problems, as was seen in Europe in the 1930's. A perfectly valid analogy. Though I could have picked any number of other analogies, such as the Taiping rebellion in China in the 1800's when a Chinaman named Hong Xiuquan claimed he was the younger brother of Jesus Christ and sought to overthrow the Qing Dynasty, leading to the deaths of approx 20 million people.
"Looks like I'm not alone. I wonder if hostis would also describe all these people as intolerant?"
It depends. Would these people laugh at someone else's beliefs? If so, then yes, I would consider them intolerant. If they wanted to enter into reasoned discussion, I would not.I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this....
'a mobile museum that takes fossil exhibits to churches and schools'
What do they do? Hold up the bones and say, 'Look just how clever God is? He created these in order to test our faith in him'. (If he's so clever, then why didn't he create I-phones 6000 years ago and leave them lying around in the desert?)
I wonder how they explain the Grand Canyon? Is that just another trick 'God' played on us in order to test our faith?
so what? surely if someone wants to fund a museum for whatever reason they wish they can do this? just because you disagree, doesn't mean it's wrong. and if you don't agree, just don't visit it.
For the record, I don't believe in creationism but everyone is entitled to their own beliefs...
Well, still making my way through this thread (I can only wonder what will unfold in the next few pages), but I do like the logic (and openmindedness) in that post up there.
Uh huh. Keep it going, bro. You're making great progress here saying people who think differently from you should be banned from doing such. You're obviously smarter than every person who believes in Creationism. :arrow:
No, I don't because as people evolve and change and learn they change their mind, they form opinions that are not of their upbringing and not of their parents. I have vastly differing views of the world around in comparison to when I was in my teens, 20s or 30s. You evolve and you learn, and a lot of the time it is through discussion with people who believe vastly different things to you do you view the world in a different way.
Talking of very big stretches, you really think that early education plays no part in shaping young adults' outlook on the World?
I take it you were brought up in England? Slightly different environment than the American Bible belt. Does religion play as big a role in English education as it does in America? Nope.
So are you implying here that people should only be educated what is known to be true and not to give them different views to enable them to make up their own mind and form their own beliefs?
If we know something to be true, then why would we teach our children something 'different'? Or are you just arguing now for the pure sake of it?
You also have a VERY big stretch to go until creationism becomes a mainstream educational role in the USA or any western developed country for that matter.... for now and for the future, creationism will become a smaller and smaller footnote in the evolution of man...
"Looks like I'm not alone. I wonder if hostis would also describe all these people as intolerant?"
It depends. Would these people laugh at someone else's beliefs? If so, then yes, I would consider them intolerant. If they wanted to enter into reasoned discussion, I would not.I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this....
Did you ever see the movie 'The Life of Brian'? What was your reaction to it? Did you write a letter of righteous indignation to the t.v company?
I checked out their Living Inductees into the hall of fame and most don't even have a Bachelor of Science degree and the ones that do, most are engineers.
And then there is this guy, Charles Jackson, who I highly suspect is the illegitimate son of NASCAR great, Richard Petty.
What's your problem with engineers? You hate people that actually use science or something useful?
No, I don't because as people evolve and change and learn they change their mind, they form opinions that are not of their upbringing and not of their parents. I have vastly differing views of the world around in comparison to when I was in my teens, 20s or 30s. You evolve and you learn, and a lot of the time it is through discussion with people who believe vastly different things to you do you view the world in a different way.
Talking of very big stretches, you really think that early education plays no part in shaping young adults' outlook on the World?
I take it you were brought up in England? Slightly different environment than the American Bible belt. Does religion play as big a role in English education as it does in America? Nope.
So are you implying here that people should only be educated what is known to be true and not to give them different views to enable them to make up their own mind and form their own beliefs?
If we know something to be true, then why would we teach our children something 'different'? Or are you just arguing now for the pure sake of it?
You also have a VERY big stretch to go until creationism becomes a mainstream educational role in the USA or any western developed country for that matter.... for now and for the future, creationism will become a smaller and smaller footnote in the evolution of man...
And you base this assertion on what exactly?
that's quite a confusing quote up there but I will try and clear a few things up. I base my assertions on life experience and from talking to people. Nothing more nothing less. I have never met someone who has said that they have had the same views in life all the way through. That's because people evolve. Early education of course shapes young adults views of the world... how can it not?
If we 'know' something to be true then why cant people be educated in different ways to understand the way of the world. We know Hitler and the nazis were wrong but children should still be taught it. Children (in fact everyone) should be taught all manner of things as part of our heritage and commitment to creating rounded individuals who can learn right from wrong, not just be taught right and take it for granted.
As for the wonderful sweeping statement "I take it you were brought up in England? Slightly different environment than the American Bible belt. Does religion play as big a role in English education as it does in America? Nope. ". For a little background, I was educated in England, correct. Junior school was a convent educated mostly by nuns and a catholic mother (I was even an alter boy in my younger years) so I am not sure that religion could have played a bigger role in my formative years. If you can find a way, I would love for you to tell me. My senior school was a private school in southern England where I was taught RE (religious education), had morning and afternoon prayers and studied religion up until I was 18 (GCSE and A-Level). If you would like proof would you like a copy of my CV or my exam certificates? (do I do my little "in your face" dance now?)
So, for other people, I can't obviosuly say, but for me religion has played a massive part in my life. Please stop with your sweeping presumptions. It belittles you. I thought you were better than this.
As for creationism not getting mainstream, well, you posted it yourself. 16% of science teachers are creationists. That's a whopping 84% who are not. Atheism is the new religion. And its growing every day.
that's quite a confusing quote up there but I will try and clear a few things up. I base my assertions on life experience and from talking to people. Nothing more nothing less. I have never met someone who has said that they have had the same views in life all the way through. That's because people evolve. Early education of course shapes young adults views of the world... how can it not?
So you're going to pretend that your education didn't influence you one way or the other? Seriously, are you really so desperate to appear on top in this debate that you'll try and pretend that your outlook on life is based solely on 'talking to people'?
If we 'know' something to be true then why cant people be educated in different ways to understand the way of the world. We know Hitler and the nazis were wrong but children should still be taught it.
Children should still be taught it? Children should still be taught what? The Nazi's genetic and racial theories? The Nazis obsession with the old Norse religions and the Runes?
Seriously, what are you suggesting that children should be taught about the Nazis in our schools? Should they be taught that the Nazis were possibly right, and that their views have as much validity as any other political entity? Should they be taught to be tolerant and understanding of Nazism? Is this where your need to win this debate has brought you?
As for the wonderful sweeping statement "I take it you were brought up in England? Slightly different environment than the American Bible belt. Does religion play as big a role in English education as it does in America? Nope. ". For a little background, I was educated in England, correct. Junior school was a convent educated mostly by nuns and a catholic mother (I was even an alter boy in my younger years) so I am not sure that religion could have played a bigger role in my formative years.
for me religion has played a massive part in my life. Please stop with your sweeping presumptions. It belittles you. I thought you were better than this.
My sweeping statement? My sweeping presumptions? Wow, you really love laying on the hyperbole don't you. I assumed you were brought up in England. Was I right? Yes.
I then asked: "Does religion play as big a role in English education as it does in America?" Well does it? No, it doesn't. And the fact that you spent 18 years in religious education doesn't change that fact. Your experience is an exception, not the rule.
As for creationism not getting mainstream, well, you posted it yourself. 16% of science teachers are creationists. That's a whopping 84% who are not. Atheism is the new religion. And its growing every day.
Is Atheism growing in America? Nope. Is creationism being taught in more and more U.S schools? Yes. Did you read the article I posted above that described how many public schools in America are being forced to close and replaced with Church-owned private schools?
you have already said you are intolerant of bullshit. And you haven't defended being condescending or judgemental....
I asked you a question before relating to The Life of Brian. Did that movie offend you? Did you think it was wrong of people to find that movie amusing?
Comments
that doesn't mention anything about Jesus?....
Not in the Moving Train they aren't.
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hehehe
And when those beliefs start entering the education system and corrupting the children, you have no problem with that either?
I think this fella makes a good point. Though I expect you'll disagree and label him intolerant?
American scientist William Sanford "Bill" Nye:
"And I say to the grownups, if you want to deny evolution and live in your world, in your world that's completely inconsistent with everything we observe in the universe, that's fine, but don't make your kids do it because we need them. We need scientifically literate voters and taxpayers for the future. We need people that can — we need engineers that can build stuff, solve problems."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_M ... _criticism
The Creation Museum has been the subject of controversy ever since it was proposed, because the exhibits are based on a young Earth creationist view of the origins of the universe and life. Local opposition caused the construction approval process to take several years. During construction Robert Winston visited the site of the museum during the filming of his documentary "The Story of God" and remarked,
"I admit I was dismayed by what I saw at the Ken Ham museum. It was alarming to see so much time, money and effort being spent on making a mockery of hard won scientific knowledge. And the fact that it was being done with such obvious sincerity, somehow made it all the worse."[48]
Educators criticizing the museum include the National Center for Science Education.[31] The NCSE collected over 800 signatures from scientists in the three states closest to the museum (Kentucky, Indiana, and Ohio) on the following statement:
"We, the undersigned scientists at universities and colleges in Kentucky, Ohio, and Indiana, are concerned about scientifically inaccurate materials at the Answers in Genesis museum. Students who accept this material as scientifically valid are unlikely to succeed in science courses at the college level. These students will need remedial instruction in the nature of science, as well as in the specific areas of science misrepresented by Answers in Genesis."[49]
NCSE director Eugenie Scott characterized the Creation Museum as "the Creationist Disneyland."[17] The Guardian called the facility "quite possibly ... one of the weirdest museums in the world."[32] Physicist Lawrence Krauss has called on media, educators, and government officials to shun the museum and says that its view is based on falsehoods.[50] Krauss said that the facility is "as much a disservice to religion as it is to science."[51]
The introduction to a May 2007 Good Morning America report on the museum stated that according to an ABC news poll, 60% of Americans believe that "God created the world in six days." The report stated that the Creation Museum was aimed at convincing visitors that evolution is wrong, and that the Biblical story of life on earth from Adam and Eve to Noah's ark is scientifically verifiable.[53] In a March 2007 Newsweek poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International, 48% of respondents agreed with the statement "God created humans pretty much in the present form at one time within the last 10,000 years or so."[54]
The museum has also been criticized by Christians who are not young Earth creationists. Notable among them is geologist Greg Neyman of Answers in Creation, an old earth creationism ministry. Neyman released a press kit dealing with the museum's grand opening in which he said:
"Those who will benefit least from the museum are the non-Christians, who are firmly grounded in their belief through modern science that the Earth is billions of years old. They will see the museum, and recognize its faulty science, and will be turned away from the church. This will increase the already widening gap between the unchurched and the churched. This gap is the direct result of young Earth creationism."[6]
Neyman adds that "today, the church is comprised of many individuals who accept an old Earth" and "is already moving away from young Earth creationism."[6] The Rev. Mendle Adams, pastor of St. Peter's United Church of Christ in Cincinnati, Ohio, joined others, both secularists and Christians, at protests at the museum's opening. He said "my brothers and sisters in the faith who embrace [the creationist] understanding call into question the whole Christian concept" and "make us a laughing stock."[5] Roman Catholic theologian John Haught sees little merit in the museum, saying it will cause an "impoverishment" of religion. He concluded "It's hard for me to come up with a single reason why we should be doing this. ... It's theologically problematic to me, as well as scientifically problematic."[55] Michael Patrick Leahy, editor of the magazine Christian Faith and Reason, says that by replacing the scientific method with biblical literalism, the museum undermines the credibility of all Christians and makes it easy to represent Christians as irrational.[56]
Lisa Park, a professor of paleontology at University of Akron who is also an Elder in the Presbyterian Church was particularly disturbed by the museum's depiction that war, famine and natural disasters are the result of a belief in evolution. She stated:
"I think it's very bad science and even worse theology... and the theology is far more offensive to me. I think there's a lot of focus on fear, and I don't think that's a very Christian message... I find it a malicious manipulation of the public."[57]
In 2010, A. A. Gill reported it is "a breathtakingly literal march through Genesis, without any hint of soul." "This place doesn't just take on evolution—it squares off with geology, anthropology, paleontology, history, chemistry, astronomy, zoology, biology, and good taste. It directly and boldly contradicts most -onomies and all -ologies, including most theology."
And since we're cherry-picking: I could give a shit, but this is just a flame and no less inflammatory than other of the trolls on this board. It serves no purpose but to incite.
No, I don't because as people evolve and change and learn they change their mind, they form opinions that are not of their upbringing and not of their parents. I have vastly differing views of the world around in comparison to when I was in my teens, 20s or 30s. You evolve and you learn, and a lot of the time it is through discussion with people who believe vastly different things to you do you view the world in a different way.
So are you implying here that people should only be educated what is known to be true and not to give them different views to enable them to make up their own mind and form their own beliefs?
You also have a VERY big stretch to go until creationism becomes a mainstream educational role in the USA or any western developed country for that matter.... for now and for the future, creationism will become a smaller and smaller footnote in the evolution of man...
So you think the building of a creationist museum in America is not worthy of discussion? That's a strange thing to say 5 pages into a thread.
It depends. Would these people laugh at someone else's beliefs? If so, then yes, I would consider them intolerant. If they wanted to enter into reasoned discussion, I would not.I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this....
We get it. You hate Christians. Let it go.
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No, you get nothing.
Uh huh. Keep it going, bro. You're making great progress here saying people who think differently from you should be banned from doing such. You're obviously smarter than every person who believes in Creationism. :arrow:
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Talking of very big stretches, you really think that early education plays no part in shaping young adults' outlook on the World?
I take it you were brought up in England? Slightly different environment than the American Bible belt. Does religion play as big a role in English education as it does in America? Nope.
If we know something to be true, then why would we teach our children something 'different'? Or are you just arguing now for the pure sake of it?
And you base this assertion on what exactly?
Except I didn't say anything of the sort.
You have any more crap to contribute?
You're implying it. Read your thread.
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Did you ever see the movie 'The Life of Brian'? What was your reaction to it? Did you write a letter of righteous indignation to the t.v company?
I implied nothing of the sort. Stop making shit up. If you have nothing to contribute to this discussion then go and post something in another thread.
What's your problem with engineers? You hate people that actually use science or something useful?
I am contributing to the thread. I'm saying within this thread - you're putting forth a condescending, judgmental, intolerant viewpoint.
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Intolerant? Intolerant of what? There's a difference between intolerance and regarding something as being ridiculous.
Are you suggesting that creationists and their views should be taken seriously?
Do you believe the World is 6000 years old and that Noah herded all the animals on Earth onto a big ark during a flood that engulfed the Earth?
(thanks, as always
that's quite a confusing quote up there but I will try and clear a few things up. I base my assertions on life experience and from talking to people. Nothing more nothing less. I have never met someone who has said that they have had the same views in life all the way through. That's because people evolve. Early education of course shapes young adults views of the world... how can it not?
If we 'know' something to be true then why cant people be educated in different ways to understand the way of the world. We know Hitler and the nazis were wrong but children should still be taught it. Children (in fact everyone) should be taught all manner of things as part of our heritage and commitment to creating rounded individuals who can learn right from wrong, not just be taught right and take it for granted.
As for the wonderful sweeping statement "I take it you were brought up in England? Slightly different environment than the American Bible belt. Does religion play as big a role in English education as it does in America? Nope. ". For a little background, I was educated in England, correct. Junior school was a convent educated mostly by nuns and a catholic mother (I was even an alter boy in my younger years) so I am not sure that religion could have played a bigger role in my formative years. If you can find a way, I would love for you to tell me. My senior school was a private school in southern England where I was taught RE (religious education), had morning and afternoon prayers and studied religion up until I was 18 (GCSE and A-Level). If you would like proof would you like a copy of my CV or my exam certificates? (do I do my little "in your face" dance now?)
So, for other people, I can't obviosuly say, but for me religion has played a massive part in my life. Please stop with your sweeping presumptions. It belittles you. I thought you were better than this.
As for creationism not getting mainstream, well, you posted it yourself. 16% of science teachers are creationists. That's a whopping 84% who are not. Atheism is the new religion. And its growing every day.
you have already said you are intolerant of bullshit. And you haven't defended being condescending or judgemental....
So you're going to pretend that your education didn't influence you one way or the other? Seriously, are you really so desperate to appear on top in this debate that you'll try and pretend that your outlook on life is based solely on 'talking to people'?
Children should still be taught it? Children should still be taught what? The Nazi's genetic and racial theories? The Nazis obsession with the old Norse religions and the Runes?
Seriously, what are you suggesting that children should be taught about the Nazis in our schools? Should they be taught that the Nazis were possibly right, and that their views have as much validity as any other political entity? Should they be taught to be tolerant and understanding of Nazism? Is this where your need to win this debate has brought you?
My sweeping statement? My sweeping presumptions?
I then asked: "Does religion play as big a role in English education as it does in America?" Well does it? No, it doesn't. And the fact that you spent 18 years in religious education doesn't change that fact. Your experience is an exception, not the rule.
Is Atheism growing in America? Nope. Is creationism being taught in more and more U.S schools? Yes. Did you read the article I posted above that described how many public schools in America are being forced to close and replaced with Church-owned private schools?
Oh, I am so sorry. I didn't realize that I had to answer to every one of your lame criticisms.
I asked you a question before relating to The Life of Brian. Did that movie offend you? Did you think it was wrong of people to find that movie amusing?
Do you find this offensive and intolerant?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9czBBKof7Yo
I wonder if there's a reason they're called fundamentalists?