Can we get to the root of crime? Can it be addressed?

peacefrompaul

Jason P wrote:

ComeToTX wrote:

In addition, the SPLC has documented a powerful resurgence of the antigovernment “Patriot” movement, which in the 1990s led to a string of domestic terrorist plots, including the Oklahoma City bombing. The number of Patriot groups, including armed militias, grew by 755 percent in the first three years of the Obama administration – from 149 at the end of 2008 to 1,274 in 2011.

I looked at the criteria of what is considered the Patriot movement and it is very vast. It ranges from armed militias to someone who supports Ron Paul or is a quasi-libertarian. A good number of posters on this board along with myself fall under the Patriot movement based on that criteria.

I would be more interested to see the rise in armed militias only. Or better yet, how about the rise in hate groups.

Yep. Guess I'm a terrorist too... hope they don't look at my Twitter.

peacefrompaul

Here's something that may help

Legalize/decriminalize drugs... all of them.

mickeyrat

ok, this will be a little simplistic but get rid of human beings and you will get rid of the root of crime.

Human beings suck. Nothing but a parasite on the earth.

peacefrompaul

mickeyrat wrote:

ok, this will be a little simplistic but get rid of human beings and you will get rid of the root of crime.

Human beings suck. Nothing but a parasite on the earth.

True that

chadwick

the root of crime? is the question

dad was a correctional officer for roughly 30 years or so. dad always said if it wasn't for alcohol & drug abuse he wouldn't have a job. yes, some monsters do not require booze or dope to commit murders & rape and such but dad would say those maniacs are far and few between.

most folks in prison are sitting there due to being drunk or high as shit whilst committing their crimes.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

chadwick wrote:

dad always said if it wasn't for alcohol & drug abuse he wouldn't have a job.

I would wonder how many law abiding people would go batshit crazy without alcohol or mild drugs.

rollings

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

chadwick wrote:

dad always said if it wasn't for alcohol & drug abuse he wouldn't have a job.

I would wonder how many law abiding people would go batshit crazy without alcohol or mild drugs.

crime would be on the rise.....out of boredom

Cosmo

comebackgirl wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

this is some great reading.
http://www.livescience.com/13083-crimin ... thics.html

This article is really interesting. The question for me is were these people born with different neurology, or did they experience something in their environment (early severe trauma) that impacted a predisposition. I would love to see more research on that. Thank you for sharing this.

...
This is what I was thinking...
If someone is wired as someone who would be profiled as a potential killer was brought up in a loving, supportive environment, whould he/she be a risk to the public at large? Also, if a so-called, 'normal' person was raised in a violent environment, does that mean he/she is a potential risk?

comebackgirl

Cosmo wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

this is some great reading.
http://www.livescience.com/13083-crimin ... thics.html

This article is really interesting. The question for me is were these people born with different neurology, or did they experience something in their environment (early severe trauma) that impacted a predisposition. I would love to see more research on that. Thank you for sharing this.

...
This is what I was thinking...
If someone is wired as someone who would be profiled as a potential killer was brought up in a loving, supportive environment, whould he/she be a risk to the public at large? Also, if a so-called, 'normal' person was raised in a violent environment, does that mean he/she is a potential risk?

I would love to do research on this topic. It's really interesting stuff. There is a lot of research showing that people who present with Borderline Personality Disorder (typically people who have endured chronic trauma and victimization) experience changes to their brain and how they process and respond to potential threats to their safety later in life (typically fairly neutral situations that they feel are threatening - mostly to their emotional safety). I've seen a lot of research about how problems with early attachment changes the brains of those who present as victims, but not much on those who present as the perpetrators.

redrock

Cosmo wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

this is some great reading.
http://www.livescience.com/13083-crimin ... thics.html

This article is really interesting. The question for me is were these people born with different neurology, or did they experience something in their environment (early severe trauma) that impacted a predisposition. I would love to see more research on that. Thank you for sharing this.

...
This is what I was thinking...
If someone is wired as someone who would be profiled as a potential killer was brought up in a loving, supportive environment, whould he/she be a risk to the public at large? Also, if a so-called, 'normal' person was raised in a violent environment, does that mean he/she is a potential risk?

Nature versus nurture theory. Interesting.

I certainly believe that the environment has it's part to play in all of this (thus the need to really focus on the young ones) but not sure it all either/or. I believe that you are 'wired' the way you are (having worked in a school and seen some examples with siblings). Nurturing will enable certain traits to develop above others - hopefully the 'acceptable behaviour' ones, and will also help to recognise certain traits and teach kids how to deal with them. But then again, it's not my field so these are just feelings. It's certainly a very interesting thing to look into.

As TBU said, we need to invest in our youth. Not just from a 'teaching' (whether academic, values, etc.) point of view, but also invest in their future - training, jobs, etc. Without the hope of a future, it can be downhill for some (not just youth). Disaffection causing alienation to the 'rest of them', resentment, etc. can affect the mind of people and lead to crime, drugs, etc. Looking at crime/drugs, I believe in rehabilitation. Sure, some can't be rehabilitated but I'm sure a lot of those 'petty criminals' could be with the right environment and especially outlook for the future (which, I know, is quite gloom at the moment). Get druggies OFF their drugs (and not into methadone programmes - another band-aid, doesn't look at the cause of the addiction, just masks it with another), get uneducated kids educated.

So much to do though....

Cosmo

comebackgirl wrote:

I would love to do research on this topic. It's really interesting stuff. There is a lot of research showing that people who present with Borderline Personality Disorder (typically people who have endured chronic trauma and victimization) experience changes to their brain and how they process and respond to potential threats to their safety later in life (typically fairly neutral situations that they feel are threatening - mostly to their emotional safety). I've seen a lot of research about how problems with early attachment changes the brains of those who present as victims, but not much on those who present as the perpetrators.

...
And it's not just childhood upbringing... aren't there kids in High School that get bullied and come in as shoot the place up? Are they all wired as psychotic or have horrible parents? Same thing with the so-called, 'Disgruntled Employee' that goes berserk and shoots up the office. He might have made it through childhood, high school and college just fine, but, landed a job with shitty bosses and/or co-workers.
Thing is... I believe there are way too many variables to nail down who is going to flip out... and who is not.

comebackgirl

Cosmo wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

I would love to do research on this topic. It's really interesting stuff. There is a lot of research showing that people who present with Borderline Personality Disorder (typically people who have endured chronic trauma and victimization) experience changes to their brain and how they process and respond to potential threats to their safety later in life (typically fairly neutral situations that they feel are threatening - mostly to their emotional safety). I've seen a lot of research about how problems with early attachment changes the brains of those who present as victims, but not much on those who present as the perpetrators.

...
And it's not just childhood upbringing... aren't there kids in High School that get bullied and come in as shoot the place up? Are they all wired as psychotic or have horrible parents? Same thing with the so-called, 'Disgruntled Employee' that goes berserk and shoots up the office. He might have made it through childhood, high school and college just fine, but, landed a job with shitty bosses and/or co-workers.
Thing is... I believe there are way too many variables to nail down who is going to flip out... and who is not.

There are really so many variables that go into figuring out who is going to act out one way and who won't. Experiences across our lifetime change our brain, but definitely so very early on when our personalities are still developing. That's what I find so interesting about the Columbine shooters - they seemed to come from very "normal" supportive families; there were definitely some behavioral cues that were missed, but nothing that would indicate they would shoot up their school (aside from the videos that were discovered after the fact." The people who generate the most concern may go on to do nothing...maybe because they get intervention?

Cosmo

comebackgirl wrote:

There are really so many variables that go into figuring out who is going to act out one way and who won't. Experiences across our lifetime change our brain, but definitely so very early on when our personalities are still developing. That's what I find so interesting about the Columbine shooters - they seemed to come from very "normal" supportive families; there were definitely some behavioral cues that were missed, but nothing that would indicate they would shoot up their school (aside from the videos that were discovered after the fact." The people who generate the most concern may go on to do nothing...maybe because they get intervention?

...
Regarding the Columbine kids... were they bullied at that school? If so, were some of the kids murdered the ones who bullied them?
Not saying the bullies deserved to die, but do their action contribute, in any way, to people going berserk?

comebackgirl

Cosmo wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

There are really so many variables that go into figuring out who is going to act out one way and who won't. Experiences across our lifetime change our brain, but definitely so very early on when our personalities are still developing. That's what I find so interesting about the Columbine shooters - they seemed to come from very "normal" supportive families; there were definitely some behavioral cues that were missed, but nothing that would indicate they would shoot up their school (aside from the videos that were discovered after the fact." The people who generate the most concern may go on to do nothing...maybe because they get intervention?

...
Regarding the Columbine kids... were they bullied at that school? If so, were some of the kids murdered the ones who bullied them?
Not saying the bullies deserved to die, but do their action contribute, in any way, to people going berserk?

From what I've read, the reports of bullying were overblown. There may have been more bullying when they were younger, but all of those kids had already graduated. They expressed feeling "left out" by their peers in some of their journals and writings. That being said, I've seen people who are impacted by bullying decades later. I'm sure any kind of trauma can impact how you see yourself and the world.

Cosmo

comebackgirl wrote:

From what I've read, the reports of bullying were overblown. There may have been more bullying when they were younger, but all of those kids had already graduated. They expressed feeling "left out" by their peers in some of their journals and writings. That being said, I've seen people who are impacted by bullying decades later. I'm sure any kind of trauma can impact how you see yourself and the world.

...
I wonder... how do the people who remember bullying those kids feel about the outcome?

hedonist

This is a fascinating thread...thanks, guys!

As I was reading through the posts about causation and what could trigger these events later in life, couldn't ANYTHING have that kind of effect? Divorce, being molested, losing a parent, a major injury. As CBG mentioned the many variables, they seem endless to me because it could be not just one experience but a combination that could take someone to that point.

pandora

Cosmo wrote:

And it's not just childhood upbringing... aren't there kids in High School that get bullied and come in as shoot the place up? Are they all wired as psychotic or have horrible parents? Same thing with the so-called, 'Disgruntled Employee' that goes berserk and shoots up the office. He might have made it through childhood, high school and college just fine, but, landed a job with shitty bosses and/or co-workers.
Thing is... I believe there are way too many variables to nail down who is going to flip out... and who is not.

or perfectly fine coworkers and bosses who they perceive as shitty

There are definitely warning signs to flipping out,
as in the case of pretty much all the shooters we are having of late.

Wanting to go out in a blaze of glory, hurt a society that has hurt them is nothing new.
Its been around pretty much my whole life.
It's basic, it builds in copycat form and we are going to see much more
with the unbelievable stresses people are living their lives under.
The loss of jobs, the need for aid, the loss of homes, credit.
People are going to become more hopeless and angry.

Cosmo

hedonist wrote:

This is a fascinating thread...thanks, guys!

As I was reading through the posts about causation and what could trigger these events later in life, couldn't ANYTHING have that kind of effect? Divorce, being molested, losing a parent, a major injury. As CBG mentioned the many variables, they seem endless to me because it could be not just one experience but a combination that could take someone to that point.

...
That's it. Anything can cause someone to flip out. Normally sane people doing completely insane things.
For example, pressures at work... especially during times when clinging to your job is difficult and the thought of losing it creates high stress and anxiety. Add a hostile working environment and all bets are off.
I think in 99.9% of those cases, people don't go bonkers... it's that .1% that goes Postal that we have to all worry about.

comebackgirl

Cosmo wrote:

comebackgirl wrote:

From what I've read, the reports of bullying were overblown. There may have been more bullying when they were younger, but all of those kids had already graduated. They expressed feeling "left out" by their peers in some of their journals and writings. That being said, I've seen people who are impacted by bullying decades later. I'm sure any kind of trauma can impact how you see yourself and the world.

...
I wonder... how do the people who remember bullying those kids feel about the outcome?

That would have to be a real hard pill to swallow...like when teens have bullied other teens into committing suicide (ie. Phoebe Prince). Sometimes even after the fact they seem to show little remorse, but I wonder if that's a defense mechanism and false bravado.

comebackgirl

hedonist wrote:

This is a fascinating thread...thanks, guys!

As I was reading through the posts about causation and what could trigger these events later in life, couldn't ANYTHING have that kind of effect? Divorce, being molested, losing a parent, a major injury. As CBG mentioned the many variables, they seem endless to me because it could be not just one experience but a combination that could take someone to that point.

That's where I think having a predisposition would come into play...some people are just naturally more resilient than others. Some people can go through the most extreme situations and go on to thrive; others will suffer a lifetime from a more minor incident.