algebra = hard...should we get rid of it?
mikepegg44
Posts: 3,353
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opini ... wanted=all
wow. That is all I can say. My favorite part of the article was here:
The toll mathematics takes begins early. To our nation’s shame, one in four ninth graders fail to finish high school. In South Carolina, 34 percent fell away in 2008-9, according to national data released last year; for Nevada, it was 45 percent. Most of the educators I’ve talked with cite algebra as the major academic reason.
Shirley Bagwell, a longtime Tennessee teacher, warns that “to expect all students to master algebra will cause more students to drop out.” For those who stay in school, there are often “exit exams,” almost all of which contain an algebra component. In Oklahoma, 33 percent failed to pass last year, as did 35 percent in West Virginia
:fp:
honestly Ms Bagwell...no one is expected to master any academic subject to graduate high school.
wow. That is all I can say. My favorite part of the article was here:
The toll mathematics takes begins early. To our nation’s shame, one in four ninth graders fail to finish high school. In South Carolina, 34 percent fell away in 2008-9, according to national data released last year; for Nevada, it was 45 percent. Most of the educators I’ve talked with cite algebra as the major academic reason.
Shirley Bagwell, a longtime Tennessee teacher, warns that “to expect all students to master algebra will cause more students to drop out.” For those who stay in school, there are often “exit exams,” almost all of which contain an algebra component. In Oklahoma, 33 percent failed to pass last year, as did 35 percent in West Virginia
:fp:
honestly Ms Bagwell...no one is expected to master any academic subject to graduate high school.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
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(1h x 1s)/1y = .43s
Where i = number of teachers
h = teachers who think algebra is hard,
s = number of students being short changed by a teacher who thought algebra was hard,
y = number of years being taught algebra
I think this formula sums it up
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
That's a start.
i can see how algebra and complex math could discourage people from going into certain fields. i know people who dropped out of high school and college because no matter how much tutoring the had, they could just not grasp it.
i think they should continue to teach it, because if they don't it will dumb down the education system for the rest of us. i admit it, to me algebra and its more complex cousins were my toughest subjects.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
(plus it CAN be useful down the road)
Good lord, how did we get to this place of "oh, poor things; it's too difficult...let's not even bother"?
Really sad.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Can't you go to some sort of vocational school instead if you don't want to learn hard shit? What does a high school diploma mean anyway?
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Yeah! My kind of math!
The Replacements said, "I hate music, it's got too many notes". Well, I say, "I hate math, it's got too many numbers".
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Blows my mind just thinking about it. In my last few year of college my GPA was close to 4 but I'd have never graduated if I hadn't found a way around the math requirement. My left brain must have a few damaged synaptic gaps between neurons. So instead, I got around it by taking a course on developing math curriculum for elementary school.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I'm all for vocational schools too. Study a skill - a valuable one - and then put it to use. Many make a fine living that way.
(I wish I'd become a plumber!)
I found a way around most of it... Philosophy...
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Or history for me Now THAT I am good at!
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
They let us take a critical thinking Philosophy class... can't do it on History alone, unfortunately.
Still have to take the University required Algebra 2 class which was a lot like high school Algebra... only easier, and you get to use a calculator the whole time.
Teacher: Bart, do you even know your multiplication tables?
Bart: I know of them!
Philosophy... where every answer is the correct answer... depending upon the observer... and the physical space he occupys... wherther he even exists or not.
...
We got a lot of our critical thinking skills from mathematics. Because mathematics contains some of the basic known truths in the Universe. Most equations have one answer... which is true. Sometimes the answer is singular... sometimes it is all... sometimes it is null, depending upon the equation. And we have to get there by critical thought.
Do we need it in every day life... probably not. Although our everyday lives are much easier because of people who used critical thought to bring things like electricity and running water into our lives.
Hail, Hail!!!
Yes, Allegory of the Cave is going to suit me well.
I am partial to the truth I read on a filthy shithouse wall at a Texaco station off the I-5 near Bakersfield, "I Stink, therefore, I Am".
Hail, Hail!!!
I think the expectation has been raised over time regarding math curriculum. Most high school's math requirements that I've seen are a year ahead of what it was back in my day (84'-88'), and the school I went to was no slouch. You have more people saying it's too hard because the requirements have been raised, where before you could get a diploma by just scraping through knuckle head math and be done with it.
And people say cursive writing is dead!
The irony is all around - some like music, can read music, but yet... algebra... too hard. Come on - you're embarrassing yourself.
Anyway, in my doctoral program's graduating class (economics), I was the only American student. Why do I bring this up? Simply because there were several Asians, several from Eastern Europe, one from Mexico, even one from Africa, etc. It was math intensive.
It drives me nuts to think that a typical American can't do math. The bottom line is the typical American doesn't like problem solving. We go to siri or google.
Math has a very, very, very important place in society - especially now. You look around and tell me about what rules the world - I say math-oriented subjects ---- statistics, finance, economics, engineering, etc. Anyone who believes math is a waste of time is foolish.
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I see what you're saying but disagree a bit. I graduated close to when you did and only certain people were encouraged/allowed to take upper level math classes whereas today most kids are expected to take these classes which may tax their ability to perform at high levels (which I think is the same thing you're saying?). I think I disagree because of the math curriculum at elementary levels. They are trying to teach abstract concepts in Kindergarten when these kids are still concrete thinkers instead of focusing on the skills they will need later to become abstract thinkers. Also, we are too easy on these kids in terms of expectations. I teach at a school that is a top 150 (according to Newsweek, anyway ) and when the kids struggle in math, it is someone else's fault, certainly not their own. These are not dumb kids but very few seek out extra help or tutoring when it gets too hard.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Well, I think our culture is in dire need of a mindset shift. I struggled to do algebra, and geometry was nearly incomprehensible to me but I DID it - with a lot of help from a great algebra teacher and a great geometry tutor when I had a terrible teacher. We desperately need problem solving skills which would be reinforced by all the subjects you mentioned and critical thinking skills which would be reinforced by social sciences, art. etc. The change needs to occur in order for us to be competitive with other countries since we are in a global economy. We need to make our schools year round and we need to move away from the expectation that every kid should go to college (which is different than ensuring every kid who wants to and is able CAN go to college). There should be no shame in vocational/technical education and we need to start moving towards a better educational model.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I understand the jist of the conversation that started this, but I can tell you from experience. you won't get very far in the journeyman process of plumbing if you cannot use math functionally. A large part of the written test required is "roughing in" a house. Calculating the correct amount of supplies needed to finish a new construction project.
Math is every where, people don't realize how much they use it.
Statistics wouldn't be possibly without a functional knowledge of algebra and how numbers relate to each other. Some people grasp the concepts differently there is no doubt about it, but everyone uses math. whether it is in a simple question of "how long til we get there?" or an impossibly hard question like "why did MC hammer go broke?"...all of these things need math to solve. The problem solving concept is what you learn in algebra...the Pythagorean theorem isn't what you should take away, it is learning how to use something else to solve a problem in front of you. Proficiency in math is a good skill to acquire. Proficiency in meeting a challenge is even better. No one is asking a High School student to perform high level math. And in the rare occasion that a student is asked it is because they can handle it
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan