algebra = hard...should we get rid of it?

mikepegg44
mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
edited August 2012 in A Moving Train
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/29/opini ... wanted=all


wow. That is all I can say. My favorite part of the article was here:

The toll mathematics takes begins early. To our nation’s shame, one in four ninth graders fail to finish high school. In South Carolina, 34 percent fell away in 2008-9, according to national data released last year; for Nevada, it was 45 percent. Most of the educators I’ve talked with cite algebra as the major academic reason.

Shirley Bagwell, a longtime Tennessee teacher, warns that “to expect all students to master algebra will cause more students to drop out.” For those who stay in school, there are often “exit exams,” almost all of which contain an algebra component. In Oklahoma, 33 percent failed to pass last year, as did 35 percent in West Virginia

:fp:

honestly Ms Bagwell...no one is expected to master any academic subject to graduate high school.
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    Has she presented a theorem to prove this theory?
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • mikepegg44
    mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    Jason P wrote:
    Has she presented a theorem to prove this theory?


    (1h x 1s)/1y = .43s

    Where i = number of teachers
    h = teachers who think algebra is hard,
    s = number of students being short changed by a teacher who thought algebra was hard,
    y = number of years being taught algebra



    I think this formula sums it up
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    Has she presented a theorem to prove this theory?


    (1h x 1s)/1y = .43s

    Where i = number of teachers
    h = teachers who think algebra is hard,
    s = number of students being short changed by a teacher who thought algebra was hard,
    y = number of years being taught algebra



    I think this formula sums it up
    :lol:

    That's a start.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,424
    higher level math sucked for me. i made it through calc in high school and i really struggled with that. fortunately i did not need more than college algebra and several stats and a couple of chemistry classes for my degrees.

    i can see how algebra and complex math could discourage people from going into certain fields. i know people who dropped out of high school and college because no matter how much tutoring the had, they could just not grasp it.

    i think they should continue to teach it, because if they don't it will dumb down the education system for the rest of us. i admit it, to me algebra and its more complex cousins were my toughest subjects.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    I took my college algebra 2 last semester... no more for me, thanks. :)
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    i think they should continue to teach it, because if they don't it will dumb down the education system for the rest of us.
    Yes!

    (plus it CAN be useful down the road)

    Good lord, how did we get to this place of "oh, poor things; it's too difficult...let's not even bother"?

    Really sad.
  • gimmesometruth27
    gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 24,424
    find_x_here_it_is.jpg
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Johnny Abruzzo
    Johnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 12,437
    Diagramming sentences is hard too. Should we not learn grammar? Oh wait, we can't do grammar in this country. (or math)

    Can't you go to some sort of vocational school instead if you don't want to learn hard shit? What does a high school diploma mean anyway?
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila,  PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24; Pittsburgh 5/16/25; Pittsburgh 5/18/25

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  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,674
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    find_x_here_it_is.jpg

    Yeah! My kind of math! :D

    The Replacements said, "I hate music, it's got too many notes". Well, I say, "I hate math, it's got too many numbers".
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    I think I'd be down to take a class on math history or theory. Some of that shit is mind blowing. :shock:
  • MotoDC
    MotoDC Posts: 947
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    find_x_here_it_is.jpg
    :lol::lol:
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,674
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    I think I'd be down to take a class on math history or theory. Some of that shit is mind blowing. :shock:

    Blows my mind just thinking about it. In my last few year of college my GPA was close to 4 but I'd have never graduated if I hadn't found a way around the math requirement. My left brain must have a few damaged synaptic gaps between neurons. :lol: So instead, I got around it by taking a course on developing math curriculum for elementary school. ;)
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    Johnny Abruzzo wrote:
    Diagramming sentences is hard too. Should we not learn grammar? Oh wait, we can't do grammar in this country. (or math)

    Can't you go to some sort of vocational school instead if you don't want to learn hard shit? What does a high school diploma mean anyway?
    This is a good question. A diploma means (to me, anyway) that you've learned the basics to the point where you can communicate clearly, solve basic issues, apply some of the theories to everyday life.

    I'm all for vocational schools too. Study a skill - a valuable one - and then put it to use. Many make a fine living that way.

    (I wish I'd become a plumber!)
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    brianlux wrote:
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    I think I'd be down to take a class on math history or theory. Some of that shit is mind blowing. :shock:

    Blows my mind just thinking about it. In my last few year of college my GPA was close to 4 but I'd have never graduated if I hadn't found a way around the math requirement. My left brain must have a few damaged synaptic gaps between neurons. :lol: So instead, I got around it by taking a course on developing math curriculum for elementary school. ;)

    I found a way around most of it... Philosophy... :lol:
  • riotgrl
    riotgrl LOUISVILLE Posts: 1,895
    School should be hard and if anything we are far to easy on these kids. Which is exactly why the US continues to lag behind all other western nations in terms of all or most subjects. We need to quit rewarding them for "trying" and reward them for doing. I sucked (!!!!) at any math so I got a tutor. Only C I had in high school or college.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • riotgrl
    riotgrl LOUISVILLE Posts: 1,895
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    I think I'd be down to take a class on math history or theory. Some of that shit is mind blowing. :shock:

    Blows my mind just thinking about it. In my last few year of college my GPA was close to 4 but I'd have never graduated if I hadn't found a way around the math requirement. My left brain must have a few damaged synaptic gaps between neurons. :lol: So instead, I got around it by taking a course on developing math curriculum for elementary school. ;)

    I found a way around most of it... Philosophy... :lol:


    Or history for me :) Now THAT I am good at!
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    riotgrl wrote:


    Or history for me :) Now THAT I am good at!

    They let us take a critical thinking Philosophy class... can't do it on History alone, unfortunately.

    Still have to take the University required Algebra 2 class which was a lot like high school Algebra... only easier, and you get to use a calculator the whole time.
  • JOEJOEJOE
    JOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,829
    Best Simpsons line ever:

    Teacher: Bart, do you even know your multiplication tables?

    Bart: I know of them!
  • Cosmo
    Cosmo Posts: 12,225
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    I found a way around most of it... Philosophy... :lol:
    ...
    Philosophy... where every answer is the correct answer... depending upon the observer... and the physical space he occupys... wherther he even exists or not.
    ...
    We got a lot of our critical thinking skills from mathematics. Because mathematics contains some of the basic known truths in the Universe. Most equations have one answer... which is true. Sometimes the answer is singular... sometimes it is all... sometimes it is null, depending upon the equation. And we have to get there by critical thought.
    Do we need it in every day life... probably not. Although our everyday lives are much easier because of people who used critical thought to bring things like electricity and running water into our lives.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    Cosmo wrote:
    peacefrompaul wrote:
    I found a way around most of it... Philosophy... :lol:
    ...
    Philosophy... where every answer is the correct answer... depending upon the observer... and the physical space he occupys... wherther he even exists or not.
    ...
    We got a lot of our critical thinking skills from mathematics. Because mathematics contains some of the basic known truths in the Universe. Most equations have one answer... which is true. Sometimes the answer is singular... sometimes it is all... sometimes it is null, depending upon the equation. And we have to get there by critical thought.
    Do we need it in every day life... probably not. Although our everyday lives are much easier because of people who used critical thought to bring things like electricity and running water into our lives.

    Yes, Allegory of the Cave is going to suit me well. :D

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