I know my opportunities to actually experience other places is fairly limited.
What stops Americans from traveling abroad?
Our airlines are greedy bastards. :twisted:
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Oh, and in Finland - a very wealthy country - they don't pay anything for health care. Same in the U.K.
Yes they do. Nothing in this World is free.
No they don't.
Unless you mean the fact they pay taxes, like everybody else?
Everything you get in this World is paid for. Unless the doctors, nurses, hospitals, medical companies, etc. all work for free in those two countries. Their money comes from somewhere.
I know my opportunities to actually experience other places is fairly limited.
What stops Americans from traveling abroad?
Money... $1,000 buys a lot of groceries. Especially for people that are living paycheck to paycheck.
and thats a damn shame. a lot of workers in america seem to be a step up from slaves considering what the minimum wage is over there. thats no way to live.. but its certainly a way to keep you all in line.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'm reading an interesting book called "Confucius Lives Next Door: What Living in the East Teaches us about Living in the West" by T.R. Reid. He was stationed in Japan as NPR bureau chief back in the 1990s and writes of his observations about the cultural, political, and social differences. Not too far into it, but he makes an interesting point about the collective mentality of the East and the individualistic mentality of the West. He uses this point to discuss the differences in ideas such as divorce and why it is so high in the US and lower in many parts of East Asia. He also makes an interesting point about the economic downturn in Japan during the 1990s and how he questioned the police chief about why there wasn't a huge uptick in crime and the guy was astounded that Reid would assume that crime would increase just because they were having hard times at the moment. I'm only about halfway through but it is certainly an interesting point of view.
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I'm reading an interesting book called "Confucius Lives Next Door: What Living in the East Teaches us about Living in the West" by T.R. Reid. He was stationed in Japan as NPR bureau chief back in the 1990s and writes of his observations about the cultural, political, and social differences. Not too far into it, but he makes an interesting point about the collective mentality of the East and the individualistic mentality of the West. He uses this point to discuss the differences in ideas such as divorce and why it is so high in the US and lower in many parts of East Asia. He also makes an interesting point about the economic downturn in Japan during the 1990s and how he questioned the police chief about why there wasn't a huge uptick in crime and the guy was astounded that Reid would assume that crime would increase just because they were having hard times at the moment. I'm only about halfway through but it is certainly an interesting point of view.
This is a subject I could talk about all day.
I'll just mention one thing though; the crime rate in China is very low compared to the West, and I've never felt threatened here, at any hour of the day or night. And I think that has to count for something.
I'm reading an interesting book called "Confucius Lives Next Door: What Living in the East Teaches us about Living in the West" by T.R. Reid. He was stationed in Japan as NPR bureau chief back in the 1990s and writes of his observations about the cultural, political, and social differences. Not too far into it, but he makes an interesting point about the collective mentality of the East and the individualistic mentality of the West. He uses this point to discuss the differences in ideas such as divorce and why it is so high in the US and lower in many parts of East Asia. He also makes an interesting point about the economic downturn in Japan during the 1990s and how he questioned the police chief about why there wasn't a huge uptick in crime and the guy was astounded that Reid would assume that crime would increase just because they were having hard times at the moment. I'm only about halfway through but it is certainly an interesting point of view.
Ahnimus - poster who used to post here - posted this on his Facebook page a couple of weeks ago. I'm stealing it and reposting it here:
The cultural shaping of the self begins with a society's core philosophical and religious heritage and traditions, which are typically expressed in valued texts and historical documents (e.g., the Bible or the Torah), legal or cultural documents (the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence), and religious and national traditions (Protestantism and a tradition of mobility in the United States). These traditions and documents spell out the society's beliefs about the nature of hte person, the person's relation to human and nonhuman others, normative and moral beliefs, and the other orientations described by Hallowell (1955). In Western European and North American contexts, these documents, texts and traditions emphasize the primacy of individual rights over society's needs and the value of freedom and independence from society's demands. These values are represented in cultural products such as literature and the arts, as in Robert Frost's poem "The Road Not Taken": "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-/I took the one less traveled by,/And that has made all the difference."
In Eastern cultural contexts, philosophical and religious traditions emphasize Buddhist ideals of empathy and self-renunciation, the Confucian ethic of proper conduct in the Five Cardinal Relationships, or Taoist beliefs that the self is one with others and with the Cosmos (Ho, 1995). These texts and the resulting religious and philosophical traditions emphasize the connectedness between persons, families, and societies and the importance of maintaining relationships. For example, the Confucian Golden Rule states, "The humane man, wishing to establish himself, seeks to establish others; wishing to be prominent himself, he helps others to be prominent" (Analects, as cited in Ho, 1995, pp. 133-134).
The philosophical and religious texts for the West and the East differ fundamentally in their representations of the world and the person's place in it. In Western texts and belief systems, persons are separate from the world and society and can be understood apart from the situation, context, or environment in which they are found. According to Nisbett and his colleagues (Nisbett, Peng, Choie, & Norenzayan, 2001), this view of the person is part of an analytical worldview, which originated in ancient Greek philosophy. The Greeks viewed the world as a collection of separable discrete objects that could be categorized in terms of their stable, universal properties. They sought abstract rules for the behavior of objects in a field and tended to ignore the environment in which the behavior occurred (Norenzayan, Choi, & Nisbett, 1999). This analytical worldview lay the foundation for modern science and Western psychology, especially a psychology of the individual.
In contrast to the analytical worldviews that characterize Western ideologies, early Confucian and Buddhist texts viewed the person and objects as continuous with and embedded in the environment. This resulted in a holistic worldview, in which persons and objects are understood and perceived as part of a greater whole, inseparable from the context in which they are found. - The Handbook of Self and Identity 27. Cultural Models of the Self, p. 540
Then again, this is a huge generalization, and I really don't think it's possible to sum up, or define Asia, or any other continent for that matter. Even just one country in the East - China - is beyond any easy definitions, or simple generalizations. As for the notions of 'empathy and connectedness' which are apparently prominent in the East, all I can say to that is that in my experience of China these things appear to be restricted mainly to immediate friends and family. There's been a recent spate of 'bystander effect' situations in this country whereby a bunch of people have just stood and watched as someone is robbed, or beaten, or just walked past someone in need of medical assistance - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... old-hearts
As for marriage e.t.c, people here - especially girls - are pressured into getting married before the age of 30. Parents really lean hard on their children to get married at about the age of 25. And because divorce is really looked down on, it's still quite uncommon - though divorce rates are increasing yearly.
Sometimes I wonder which system is better in this respect - the West or the East. They generally have pretty stable family lives here, though of course this involves sacrificing a degree of freedom.
The girls here - I don't really have anything to do with Chinese males - often ask me why I don't settle down and get married, and I usually just tell them that for Westerners marriage really isn't so important. Besides that, I still want to spend a year traveling the World and don't feel ready yet to be stuck in one place for the rest of my life. Some Chinese say they feel envious of my lifestyle, and others suggest I might be mental.
Also, as far as the above paragraphs I stole from Anhimus - because I'm feeling too tired and lazy right now to find that kind of info myself - I'm not sure how much Eastern religious and philosophical ideas really influence people here anymore - if at all. Maybe as China becomes more engrossed in the pursuit of money and material crap, the less effect these old ideas will have on their outlook on life.
I know my opportunities to actually experience other places is fairly limited.
What stops Americans from traveling abroad?
Our airlines are greedy bastards. :twisted:
I think there are many reasons for some US folks not to travel abroad,
kids, money, time needed, hassle, and even desire are some factors.
There are those who really love travel and all the headaches that can and do go with it.
Then there are those who think US travel is much less of a problem.
It requires less money, less time, less hassle and is every bit as fun.
We have destinations great for the kids and shows them our more than awesome country,
it's history and this also keeps our US dollar here where we need them.
As far as desire, personally I'd rather fly a couple few hours instead of three times that
and see our mountains majesty right here at home.
A new friend tells me Paris is her favorite city in the world...
she's an avid traveler, they are going to Japan in November.
I have no desire for this.
The few I know who are world travelers seem to be missing something in
their everyday life, in their relationships, their level of everyday fulfillment,
satisfaction, peace.
This of course can not be said about everyone, nor even many,
perhaps not even some, just with a few I know.
One trip is not even done yet or memories cherished (?)
another is being planned.
My heart says what you running from or trying to fill up?
I'm reading an interesting book called "Confucius Lives Next Door: What Living in the East Teaches us about Living in the West" by T.R. Reid. He was stationed in Japan as NPR bureau chief back in the 1990s and writes of his observations about the cultural, political, and social differences. Not too far into it, but he makes an interesting point about the collective mentality of the East and the individualistic mentality of the West. He uses this point to discuss the differences in ideas such as divorce and why it is so high in the US and lower in many parts of East Asia. He also makes an interesting point about the economic downturn in Japan during the 1990s and how he questioned the police chief about why there wasn't a huge uptick in crime and the guy was astounded that Reid would assume that crime would increase just because they were having hard times at the moment. I'm only about halfway through but it is certainly an interesting point of view.
Ahnimus - poster who used to post here - posted this on his Facebook page a couple of weeks ago. I'm stealing it and reposting it here:
The cultural shaping of the self begins with a society's core philosophical and religious heritage and traditions, which are typically expressed in valued texts and historical documents (e.g., the Bible or the Torah), legal or cultural documents (the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence), and religious and national traditions (Protestantism and a tradition of mobility in the United States). These traditions and documents spell out the society's beliefs about the nature of hte person, the person's relation to human and nonhuman others, normative and moral beliefs, and the other orientations described by Hallowell (1955). In Western European and North American contexts, these documents, texts and traditions emphasize the primacy of individual rights over society's needs and the value of freedom and independence from society's demands. These values are represented in cultural products such as literature and the arts, as in Robert Frost's poem "The Road Not Taken": "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-/I took the one less traveled by,/And that has made all the difference."
In Eastern cultural contexts, philosophical and religious traditions emphasize Buddhist ideals of empathy and self-renunciation, the Confucian ethic of proper conduct in the Five Cardinal Relationships, or Taoist beliefs that the self is one with others and with the Cosmos (Ho, 1995). These texts and the resulting religious and philosophical traditions emphasize the connectedness between persons, families, and societies and the importance of maintaining relationships. For example, the Confucian Golden Rule states, "The humane man, wishing to establish himself, seeks to establish others; wishing to be prominent himself, he helps others to be prominent" (Analects, as cited in Ho, 1995, pp. 133-134).
The philosophical and religious texts for the West and the East differ fundamentally in their representations of the world and the person's place in it. In Western texts and belief systems, persons are separate from the world and society and can be understood apart from the situation, context, or environment in which they are found. According to Nisbett and his colleagues (Nisbett, Peng, Choie, & Norenzayan, 2001), this view of the person is part of an analytical worldview, which originated in ancient Greek philosophy. The Greeks viewed the world as a collection of separable discrete objects that could be categorized in terms of their stable, universal properties. They sought abstract rules for the behavior of objects in a field and tended to ignore the environment in which the behavior occurred (Norenzayan, Choi, & Nisbett, 1999). This analytical worldview lay the foundation for modern science and Western psychology, especially a psychology of the individual.
In contrast to the analytical worldviews that characterize Western ideologies, early Confucian and Buddhist texts viewed the person and objects as continuous with and embedded in the environment. This resulted in a holistic worldview, in which persons and objects are understood and perceived as part of a greater whole, inseparable from the context in which they are found. - The Handbook of Self and Identity 27. Cultural Models of the Self, p. 540
Then again, this is a huge generalization, and I really don't think it's possible to sum up, or define Asia, or any other continent for that matter. Even just one country in the East - China - is beyond any easy definitions, or simple generalizations. As for the notions of 'empathy and connectedness' which are apparently prominent in the East, all I can say to that is that in my experience of China these things appear to be restricted mainly to immediate friends and family. There's been a recent spate of 'bystander effect' situations in this country whereby a bunch of people have just stood and watched as someone is robbed, or beaten, or just walked past someone in need of medical assistance - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... old-hearts
As for marriage e.t.c, people here - especially girls - are pressured into getting married before the age of 30. Parents really lean hard on their children to get married at about the age of 25. And because divorce is really looked down on, it's still quite uncommon - though divorce rates are increasing yearly.
Sometimes I wonder which system is better in this respect - the West or the East. They generally have pretty stable family lives here, though of course this involves sacrificing a degree of freedom.
The girls here - I don't really have anything to do with Chinese males - often ask me why I don't settle down and get married, and I usually just tell them that for Westerners marriage really isn't so important. Besides that, I still want to spend a year traveling the World and don't feel ready yet to be stuck in one place for the rest of my life. Some Chinese say they feel envious of my lifestyle, and others suggest I might be mental.
Also, as far as the above paragraphs I stole from Anhimus - because I'm feeling too tired and lazy right now to find that kind of info myself - I'm not sure how much Eastern religious and philosophical ideas really influence people here anymore - if at all. Maybe as China becomes more engrossed in the pursuit of money and material crap, the less effect these old ideas will have on their outlook on life.
Anyway...
This is basically the premise of the book. Reid discusses Confucianism in particular as the main ideal behind the collectiveness of many parts of Asian societies. He contrasts that with the individualistic ideals promoted by the Judeo-Christian religious texts and the influence of Socrates. This was written in 1999 so I'm curious how much things have changed - especially in someplace like China where the influence of the West, and especially capitalism, creeps in to a greater degree.
I can't say that I have decided which philosophy is better - East or West - but I certainly think we can learn something from the idea of collectiveness. I've often thought that we are a bit too insulated and isolated from each other here in the US which makes us very independent and capable of sustaining ourselves in some ways but it also means that we don't always feel as connected to each other and certainly not to the earth. I think some of the problems we have, especially in the US, with social issues such as high divorce rates, the failing of the family, health issues, environmental problems, etc. may come from our lack of connectedness. Positives and negatives to both sides of this issue. I'm with you - I could talk about this all day
Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I know my opportunities to actually experience other places is fairly limited.
What stops Americans from traveling abroad?
Not only money and having kids, but Americans have a thing for consumption, which ties us down to our "things" rather than freeing us up to the ability to travel often. See number 10 in the OP.
I'm reading an interesting book called "Confucius Lives Next Door: What Living in the East Teaches us about Living in the West" by T.R. Reid...
Sounds like an interesting read, riotgirl. I may look into this book, thanks! After the tsunami in Japan, the people didn't loot or riot at that time either, which would have been a sure thing to have happened under the same circumstances in the West.
Everything you get in this World is paid for. Unless the doctors, nurses, hospitals, medical companies, etc. all work for free in those two countries. Their money comes from somewhere.
I completely agree, they pay for it in higher taxes but what is different is that it is viewed as a social good(and by good i mean item for consumption) rather than in america it is viewed as an individual good.
the thing that struck me while i was in america is that in general it was more individualistic than where i come from. and ireland isn't a bastion of collectivism or anything but america seems to be much further down the path of individualisation while europe seems to be somewhere in between, in that yes we reward people for success etc but there is a far greater sense of community here than what i witnessed over in America. and this doesn't come down to the government or anything like that, i think it comes down to society in general
Everything you get in this World is paid for. Unless the doctors, nurses, hospitals, medical companies, etc. all work for free in those two countries. Their money comes from somewhere.
I completely agree, they pay for it in higher taxes but what is different is that it is viewed as a social good(and by good i mean item for consumption) rather than in america it is viewed as an individual good.
the thing that struck me while i was in america is that in general it was more individualistic than where i come from. and ireland isn't a bastion of collectivism or anything but america seems to be much further down the path of individualisation while europe seems to be somewhere in between, in that yes we reward people for success etc but there is a far greater sense of community here than what i witnessed over in America. and this doesn't come down to the government or anything like that, i think it comes down to society in general
Personally I think generalizing America as a whole in regards to individualism is not fair. It'd be like saying the french are the same as the english. USA is a very large country with a very diverse population. Certainly, individualism is championed, but more so in some places than others.
As far as traveling abroad goes, I do wish everyone could do it. I certainly have the opportunity to and have done so on some occasions, but I have also used my time with my young daughter at places like Disney World. It all has it's place in a nice, enjoyable, full life.
Traveling abroad (or anywhere) just for vacation would certainly give you a skewed opinion of a place though. Let's face it, everyone is happier and easier going on vacation, just soaking everything in. You can over romanticize a place when you don;t have to deal with everyday life there. Hell, locally, I love New Orleans for a nice SHORT trip. I have no interest in actually living there though.
It would be nice to have about 10 lifetimes to love so that you could see a lot more and live a lot more places. Almost every place in this world has something unique and good to offer.
Traveling's addictive. It's pretty much all I want to do - see everything, and go everywhere.
And fortunately the World's a big place. I'm not sure anyone could exhaust it.
Do you have a family? Traveling can get pretty expensive as you add more and more people to your group.
I do think what you do is pretty cool. I would say you are lucky, but it's not really about luck, it's about choices. I look forward to a nice cultural European vacation with my little girl when I feel she is old enough to truly appreciate it. I think we will probably avoid much of asia. I don;t have much interest and my wife, who has been to several places actually did not enjoy herself...which is REALLY rare. She's been a few more places than me and has basically loved everywhere except China and maybe the country areas of the Czech Republic. To each there own, you can't like everything or everywhere.
A lot of people here are talking about travelling - as in tourism - which is wonderful. But yes, it's expensive and family commitments, etc....(but isn't that true for everyone, not just americans?). Though it would seem that some do not have the desire at all to leave their country and see what else there is 'out there', whether cultures, landscapes, food, etc. - that I find a bit sad in a way, very limiting.
But travelling is not all. I find that a lot (or some as I don't want to generalise!) who do their tourist bit, do so in a very superficial way - see the sights in the guidebook but still want to eat and seek out 'american' food (if you get my drift) and do not fully immerse themselves in the country visited. Same goes for those who work abroad in multi-nationals. A lot (most, I will say - and this is from experience working/dealing with these people for many, many years) do not bother learning the language of the country, even if they will be there for 2/3 years, live in 'american' neighbourhoods, socialise amongst themselves. When they go 'back home', they have not even had a valid experience of the country that was home to them for several years.
To me (and again this is not all) but comparatively to other nationalities that I know well, Americans seem to be sort of reluctant to travel or live abroad and, if they do so, to 'be part' of where they happen to be. Even with the younger generation. Sure, there is plenty to see/do in the US and the US is diverse/interesting/ beautiful in many ways but excluding discovering other countries because of this is a bit restrictive. Like not wanting to try a lychee because one likes oranges and has plenty around so why bother with something different or not local.
9. We Are Very Unhealthy
Unless you have cancer or something equally dire, the health care system in the US sucks. The World Health Organization ranked the US 37th in the world for health care, despite the fact that we spend the most per A routine STD test that can run you over $200 in the US is free in many countries to anyone, citizen or not. My health insurance the past year? $65 a month. Why? Because I live outside of the US. An American guy I met living in Buenos Aires got knee surgery on his ACL that would have cost $10,000 in the US… for free.
Isn't part of that ranking access to care related? or was that strictly quality of care?
Also, I work at a clinic that provides free sti testing and treatment to people who cannot afford it, no matter where they live, or are from originally...citizen or not. We also never bill...meaning that no matter if a person can afford it or not, if they don't have insurance, we simply get donations or nothing at all...
Many major cities in America have that same set up one way or another...but I suppose it does very state to state...
interesting read though...I always like opinion pieces on all things American in sort of generalization mode...they are great conversations starters that, if kept constructive, can really help educate people
that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
But yes, it's expensive and family commitments, etc....(but isn't that true for everyone, not just americans?).
Yes, but in europe you can take weekend trips to different countries. Just a tad bit closer.
That is very true! I used to jump on the train (not driving in those days) to go spend a day in Paris or Amsterdam enjoying their 'niceties' . Though many Europeans do have a predilection for far away destinations
But yes, it's expensive and family commitments, etc....(but isn't that true for everyone, not just americans?).
Yes, but in europe you can take weekend trips to different countries. Just a tad bit closer.
That is very true! I used to jump on the train (not driving in those days) to go spend a day in Paris or Amsterdam enjoying their 'niceties' . Though many Europeans do have a predilection for far away destinations
Right, but by growing up where heading off to another country for a weekend or a day is the norm, I would think that it would tend to lead to more travels later in life, farther. You get comfortable with travel so it;s not stressful. If it is thought of as stressful...why would you "waste" you vacation time on it when you could go to the beach a couple hours away and relax!
But yes, it's expensive and family commitments, etc....(but isn't that true for everyone, not just americans?).
Yes, but in europe you can take weekend trips to different countries. Just a tad bit closer.
And they have options like high-speed rail...or even rail for that matter. For example, my options for rail destinations from my city are New Orleans (8 hour trip by rail), Atlanta, the Carolinas and Washington D.C. (close to or over 20 hours by rail). That is one train going south and one train going north daily. New Orleans and D.C. are the first stations where I could make any connections to other trains. Any connection through NOLA would require spending the night there. I love traveling by rail, but it is not the efficient way to travel the U.S.
It is also important to remember that this is a vast and diverse country. There is a lot to see and do here, but the size does make it expensive to travel across the country. My wife just paid $800+ round-trip to go to Buffalo, New York on a business trip via Southwest Airlines, an economy flier.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
Right, but by growing up where heading off to another country for a weekend or a day is the norm, I would think that it would tend to lead to more travels later in life, farther. You get comfortable with travel so it;s not stressful. If it is thought of as stressful...why would you "waste" you vacation time on it when you could go to the beach a couple hours away and relax!
I didn't grow up that way and when I 'grew up', it was a long time ago - week-end jaunts were definitely not the norm, anywhere (though my parents did meet in a far away land for both of them and I met my husband in a far away land for the both of us!). But you hit a point here too... vacation time. Almost negligible in the US (legally).
And it's not only being a tourist, as I said, it's also the whole concept of leaving the country to live/work somewhere else. Expanding horizons, willing to try something new/different. Not needing to fill a void of any kind as some may have suggested but just for personal 'development', getting to know the world, getting to be more tolerant to the world, not being so insular.
tybird - I love travelling by train too! Crossed Australia, the US and all over Europe by train (with stops!) and plan to do the trans-siberian one day!
traveling is always going to be a function of priorities ... yes, canada and mexico are the only "close countries" depending on where one lives in the US however, with the strength of the dollar (moreso previously) - americans would generally well afford to travel especially to places in latin america where meals and accommodation are way cheaper than most places in the states ... but the priorities for most americans are homes and big cars ... and big screen tvs ...
Traveling's addictive. It's pretty much all I want to do - see everything, and go everywhere.
And fortunately the World's a big place. I'm not sure anyone could exhaust it.
You're lucky Byrnzie. I'm guessing you're not tied down to a house payment or other debts? I would do it in a heartbeat if I wasn't tied down. There's something very freeing to be able to travel with no abandon, and be open enough to truly experience other cultures without fear or judgement.
Right, but by growing up where heading off to another country for a weekend or a day is the norm, I would think that it would tend to lead to more travels later in life, farther. You get comfortable with travel so it;s not stressful. If it is thought of as stressful...why would you "waste" you vacation time on it when you could go to the beach a couple hours away and relax!
I didn't grow up that way and when I 'grew up', it was a long time ago - week-end jaunts were definitely not the norm, anywhere (though my parents did meet in a far away land for both of them and I met my husband in a far away land for the both of us!). But you hit a point here too... vacation time. Almost negligible in the US (legally).
America offers the least amount of vacation time in the world. I'll have to find a link but read a lot about it after burning out from a mind-numbing job that offered very little time off. European mandates leisure time and it's a priority for them. Something else America can learn and improve upon... There's a reason we're so busy and stressed.
tybird - I love travelling by train too! Crossed Australia, the US and all over Europe by train (with stops!) and plan to do the trans-siberian one day!
Would love to do the cross-Canadian rail thing....my wife and step-daughter did a bit of Euro-Rail last year....the Trans-Siberian sounds uber-cool...would love to do that too.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
traveling is always going to be a function of priorities ... yes, canada and mexico are the only "close countries" depending on where one lives in the US however, with the strength of the dollar (moreso previously) - americans would generally well afford to travel especially to places in latin america where meals and accommodation are way cheaper than most places in the states ... but the priorities for most americans are homes and big cars ... and big screen tvs ...
...And the majority of us here in the U.S. have to have a car....period. No car, in most cases, equal no job. Walking or riding a bike to work in our urban/suburban sprawl tends not to be doable. Public transit....yeah, right.
All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a thousand enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with the swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed.
America offers the least amount of vacation time in the world. I'll have to find a link but read a lot about it after burning out from a mind-numbing job that offered very little time off. European mandates leisure time and it's a priority for them. Something else America can learn and improve upon... There's a reason we're so busy and stressed.
Usually between 4 to 6 weeks in European countries with 'bank holidays/national days'. I hated working the US because of that! No real 'paid holidays', just a number of days that were to be used for holidays, personal reasons, sick days, etc. Now I know that each company is different and depending on that, plus length of service, etc. this varies but it's still very stingy. Maybe if more Americans worked abroad and enjoyed these benefits, they would 'tackle' this issue with unions, companies, etc.!
...And the majority of us here in the U.S. have to have a car....period. No car, in most cases, equal no job. Walking or riding a bike to work in our urban/suburban sprawl tends not to be doable. Public transit....yeah, right.
yeah ... but there are choices there ... you can't deny that many americans often make consumer choices beyond their means ... i just got back from iceland and sweden where 90% of the cars are small fuel efficient vehicles with hatchbacks despite being in northern climates ... it screams of a culture/society that is more practical than status based ... most people friggin' drive SUV's in the states ... it's absurd ...
...And the majority of us here in the U.S. have to have a car....period. No car, in most cases, equal no job. Walking or riding a bike to work in our urban/suburban sprawl tends not to be doable. Public transit....yeah, right.
Ever been to New York City? The majority living there do not own a car.
America offers the least amount of vacation time in the world. I'll have to find a link but read a lot about it after burning out from a mind-numbing job that offered very little time off. European mandates leisure time and it's a priority for them. Something else America can learn and improve upon... There's a reason we're so busy and stressed.
Usually between 4 to 6 weeks in European countries with 'bank holidays/national days'. I hated working the US because of that! No real 'paid holidays', just a number of days that were to be used for holidays, personal reasons, sick days, etc. Now I know that each company is different and depending on that, plus length of service, etc. this varies but it's still very stingy. Maybe if more Americans worked abroad and enjoyed these benefits, they would 'tackle' this issue with unions, companies, etc.!
If more Americans worked abroad and enjoyed those benefits, they'd probably move there! Unions and companies here are so wrapped up in politics here that nothing will change with them. Too much red tape for anything to actually change. It's why I've been thinking of moving out for a while now.
Comments
Everything you get in this World is paid for. Unless the doctors, nurses, hospitals, medical companies, etc. all work for free in those two countries. Their money comes from somewhere.
Money... $1,000 buys a lot of groceries. Especially for people that are living paycheck to paycheck.
and thats a damn shame. a lot of workers in america seem to be a step up from slaves considering what the minimum wage is over there. thats no way to live.. but its certainly a way to keep you all in line.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
This is a subject I could talk about all day.
I'll just mention one thing though; the crime rate in China is very low compared to the West, and I've never felt threatened here, at any hour of the day or night. And I think that has to count for something.
Ahnimus - poster who used to post here - posted this on his Facebook page a couple of weeks ago. I'm stealing it and reposting it here:
The cultural shaping of the self begins with a society's core philosophical and religious heritage and traditions, which are typically expressed in valued texts and historical documents (e.g., the Bible or the Torah), legal or cultural documents (the Bill of Rights and the Declaration of Independence), and religious and national traditions (Protestantism and a tradition of mobility in the United States). These traditions and documents spell out the society's beliefs about the nature of hte person, the person's relation to human and nonhuman others, normative and moral beliefs, and the other orientations described by Hallowell (1955). In Western European and North American contexts, these documents, texts and traditions emphasize the primacy of individual rights over society's needs and the value of freedom and independence from society's demands. These values are represented in cultural products such as literature and the arts, as in Robert Frost's poem "The Road Not Taken": "Two roads diverged in a wood, and I-/I took the one less traveled by,/And that has made all the difference."
In Eastern cultural contexts, philosophical and religious traditions emphasize Buddhist ideals of empathy and self-renunciation, the Confucian ethic of proper conduct in the Five Cardinal Relationships, or Taoist beliefs that the self is one with others and with the Cosmos (Ho, 1995). These texts and the resulting religious and philosophical traditions emphasize the connectedness between persons, families, and societies and the importance of maintaining relationships. For example, the Confucian Golden Rule states, "The humane man, wishing to establish himself, seeks to establish others; wishing to be prominent himself, he helps others to be prominent" (Analects, as cited in Ho, 1995, pp. 133-134).
The philosophical and religious texts for the West and the East differ fundamentally in their representations of the world and the person's place in it. In Western texts and belief systems, persons are separate from the world and society and can be understood apart from the situation, context, or environment in which they are found. According to Nisbett and his colleagues (Nisbett, Peng, Choie, & Norenzayan, 2001), this view of the person is part of an analytical worldview, which originated in ancient Greek philosophy. The Greeks viewed the world as a collection of separable discrete objects that could be categorized in terms of their stable, universal properties. They sought abstract rules for the behavior of objects in a field and tended to ignore the environment in which the behavior occurred (Norenzayan, Choi, & Nisbett, 1999). This analytical worldview lay the foundation for modern science and Western psychology, especially a psychology of the individual.
In contrast to the analytical worldviews that characterize Western ideologies, early Confucian and Buddhist texts viewed the person and objects as continuous with and embedded in the environment. This resulted in a holistic worldview, in which persons and objects are understood and perceived as part of a greater whole, inseparable from the context in which they are found.
- The Handbook of Self and Identity 27. Cultural Models of the Self, p. 540
Then again, this is a huge generalization, and I really don't think it's possible to sum up, or define Asia, or any other continent for that matter. Even just one country in the East - China - is beyond any easy definitions, or simple generalizations. As for the notions of 'empathy and connectedness' which are apparently prominent in the East, all I can say to that is that in my experience of China these things appear to be restricted mainly to immediate friends and family. There's been a recent spate of 'bystander effect' situations in this country whereby a bunch of people have just stood and watched as someone is robbed, or beaten, or just walked past someone in need of medical assistance - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... old-hearts
As for marriage e.t.c, people here - especially girls - are pressured into getting married before the age of 30. Parents really lean hard on their children to get married at about the age of 25. And because divorce is really looked down on, it's still quite uncommon - though divorce rates are increasing yearly.
Sometimes I wonder which system is better in this respect - the West or the East. They generally have pretty stable family lives here, though of course this involves sacrificing a degree of freedom.
The girls here - I don't really have anything to do with Chinese males - often ask me why I don't settle down and get married, and I usually just tell them that for Westerners marriage really isn't so important. Besides that, I still want to spend a year traveling the World and don't feel ready yet to be stuck in one place for the rest of my life. Some Chinese say they feel envious of my lifestyle, and others suggest I might be mental.
Also, as far as the above paragraphs I stole from Anhimus - because I'm feeling too tired and lazy right now to find that kind of info myself - I'm not sure how much Eastern religious and philosophical ideas really influence people here anymore - if at all. Maybe as China becomes more engrossed in the pursuit of money and material crap, the less effect these old ideas will have on their outlook on life.
Anyway...
kids, money, time needed, hassle, and even desire are some factors.
There are those who really love travel and all the headaches that can and do go with it.
Then there are those who think US travel is much less of a problem.
It requires less money, less time, less hassle and is every bit as fun.
We have destinations great for the kids and shows them our more than awesome country,
it's history and this also keeps our US dollar here where we need them.
As far as desire, personally I'd rather fly a couple few hours instead of three times that
and see our mountains majesty right here at home.
A new friend tells me Paris is her favorite city in the world...
she's an avid traveler, they are going to Japan in November.
I have no desire for this.
The few I know who are world travelers seem to be missing something in
their everyday life, in their relationships, their level of everyday fulfillment,
satisfaction, peace.
This of course can not be said about everyone, nor even many,
perhaps not even some, just with a few I know.
One trip is not even done yet or memories cherished (?)
another is being planned.
My heart says what you running from or trying to fill up?
This is basically the premise of the book. Reid discusses Confucianism in particular as the main ideal behind the collectiveness of many parts of Asian societies. He contrasts that with the individualistic ideals promoted by the Judeo-Christian religious texts and the influence of Socrates. This was written in 1999 so I'm curious how much things have changed - especially in someplace like China where the influence of the West, and especially capitalism, creeps in to a greater degree.
I can't say that I have decided which philosophy is better - East or West - but I certainly think we can learn something from the idea of collectiveness. I've often thought that we are a bit too insulated and isolated from each other here in the US which makes us very independent and capable of sustaining ourselves in some ways but it also means that we don't always feel as connected to each other and certainly not to the earth. I think some of the problems we have, especially in the US, with social issues such as high divorce rates, the failing of the family, health issues, environmental problems, etc. may come from our lack of connectedness. Positives and negatives to both sides of this issue. I'm with you - I could talk about this all day
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Not only money and having kids, but Americans have a thing for consumption, which ties us down to our "things" rather than freeing us up to the ability to travel often. See number 10 in the OP.
Sounds like an interesting read, riotgirl. I may look into this book, thanks! After the tsunami in Japan, the people didn't loot or riot at that time either, which would have been a sure thing to have happened under the same circumstances in the West.
I completely agree, they pay for it in higher taxes but what is different is that it is viewed as a social good(and by good i mean item for consumption) rather than in america it is viewed as an individual good.
the thing that struck me while i was in america is that in general it was more individualistic than where i come from. and ireland isn't a bastion of collectivism or anything but america seems to be much further down the path of individualisation while europe seems to be somewhere in between, in that yes we reward people for success etc but there is a far greater sense of community here than what i witnessed over in America. and this doesn't come down to the government or anything like that, i think it comes down to society in general
And fortunately the World's a big place. I'm not sure anyone could exhaust it.
Personally I think generalizing America as a whole in regards to individualism is not fair. It'd be like saying the french are the same as the english. USA is a very large country with a very diverse population. Certainly, individualism is championed, but more so in some places than others.
As far as traveling abroad goes, I do wish everyone could do it. I certainly have the opportunity to and have done so on some occasions, but I have also used my time with my young daughter at places like Disney World. It all has it's place in a nice, enjoyable, full life.
Traveling abroad (or anywhere) just for vacation would certainly give you a skewed opinion of a place though. Let's face it, everyone is happier and easier going on vacation, just soaking everything in. You can over romanticize a place when you don;t have to deal with everyday life there. Hell, locally, I love New Orleans for a nice SHORT trip. I have no interest in actually living there though.
It would be nice to have about 10 lifetimes to love so that you could see a lot more and live a lot more places. Almost every place in this world has something unique and good to offer.
Do you have a family? Traveling can get pretty expensive as you add more and more people to your group.
I do think what you do is pretty cool. I would say you are lucky, but it's not really about luck, it's about choices. I look forward to a nice cultural European vacation with my little girl when I feel she is old enough to truly appreciate it. I think we will probably avoid much of asia. I don;t have much interest and my wife, who has been to several places actually did not enjoy herself...which is REALLY rare. She's been a few more places than me and has basically loved everywhere except China and maybe the country areas of the Czech Republic. To each there own, you can't like everything or everywhere.
But travelling is not all. I find that a lot (or some as I don't want to generalise!) who do their tourist bit, do so in a very superficial way - see the sights in the guidebook but still want to eat and seek out 'american' food (if you get my drift) and do not fully immerse themselves in the country visited. Same goes for those who work abroad in multi-nationals. A lot (most, I will say - and this is from experience working/dealing with these people for many, many years) do not bother learning the language of the country, even if they will be there for 2/3 years, live in 'american' neighbourhoods, socialise amongst themselves. When they go 'back home', they have not even had a valid experience of the country that was home to them for several years.
To me (and again this is not all) but comparatively to other nationalities that I know well, Americans seem to be sort of reluctant to travel or live abroad and, if they do so, to 'be part' of where they happen to be. Even with the younger generation. Sure, there is plenty to see/do in the US and the US is diverse/interesting/ beautiful in many ways but excluding discovering other countries because of this is a bit restrictive. Like not wanting to try a lychee because one likes oranges and has plenty around so why bother with something different or not local.
Yes, but in europe you can take weekend trips to different countries.
Isn't part of that ranking access to care related? or was that strictly quality of care?
Also, I work at a clinic that provides free sti testing and treatment to people who cannot afford it, no matter where they live, or are from originally...citizen or not. We also never bill...meaning that no matter if a person can afford it or not, if they don't have insurance, we simply get donations or nothing at all...
Many major cities in America have that same set up one way or another...but I suppose it does very state to state...
interesting read though...I always like opinion pieces on all things American in sort of generalization mode...they are great conversations starters that, if kept constructive, can really help educate people
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
That is very true! I used to jump on the train (not driving in those days) to go spend a day in Paris or Amsterdam enjoying their 'niceties'
Right, but by growing up where heading off to another country for a weekend or a day is the norm, I would think that it would tend to lead to more travels later in life, farther. You get comfortable with travel so it;s not stressful. If it is thought of as stressful...why would you "waste" you vacation time on it when you could go to the beach a couple hours away and relax!
It is also important to remember that this is a vast and diverse country. There is a lot to see and do here, but the size does make it expensive to travel across the country. My wife just paid $800+ round-trip to go to Buffalo, New York on a business trip via Southwest Airlines, an economy flier.
And it's not only being a tourist, as I said, it's also the whole concept of leaving the country to live/work somewhere else. Expanding horizons, willing to try something new/different. Not needing to fill a void of any kind as some may have suggested but just for personal 'development', getting to know the world, getting to be more tolerant to the world, not being so insular.
tybird - I love travelling by train too! Crossed Australia, the US and all over Europe by train (with stops!) and plan to do the trans-siberian one day!
You're lucky Byrnzie. I'm guessing you're not tied down to a house payment or other debts? I would do it in a heartbeat if I wasn't tied down. There's something very freeing to be able to travel with no abandon, and be open enough to truly experience other cultures without fear or judgement.
Usually between 4 to 6 weeks in European countries with 'bank holidays/national days'. I hated working the US because of that! No real 'paid holidays', just a number of days that were to be used for holidays, personal reasons, sick days, etc. Now I know that each company is different and depending on that, plus length of service, etc. this varies but it's still very stingy. Maybe if more Americans worked abroad and enjoyed these benefits, they would 'tackle' this issue with unions, companies, etc.!
yeah ... but there are choices there ... you can't deny that many americans often make consumer choices beyond their means ... i just got back from iceland and sweden where 90% of the cars are small fuel efficient vehicles with hatchbacks despite being in northern climates ... it screams of a culture/society that is more practical than status based ... most people friggin' drive SUV's in the states ... it's absurd ...
Ever been to New York City? The majority living there do not own a car.
If more Americans worked abroad and enjoyed those benefits, they'd probably move there! Unions and companies here are so wrapped up in politics here that nothing will change with them. Too much red tape for anything to actually change. It's why I've been thinking of moving out for a while now.