Class War-Fair Share

cincybearcat

Yeah, when push comes to shove these 2 parties always fall back to their stupidest ideas:

1) GOP - let's get people riled up over what other people choose to do in their personal lives

2) Dems - Let's blame it on the rich and get more tax money


Neither wants to reduce spending as a whole, only on a few things and all in all raise spending every year. Neither cares about creating jobs, just remaining in their own job.

The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same things and expect different results. Well folks, they are insane and so are we. Time to vote every incumbent out. Pay close attention to 3rd parties, especially at the local level (if they are even an option). If you are going to vote for a Big 2 party, vote the bums out. Send a message, or just continue to always blame it on the other guy or the other side and remain insane.

MotoDC

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

the only people who are against it is some of the rich people and the tea party, which is a cohort of people that vote against their own interests anyway so....

Really? I'm sure that's based on something very scientific.

Anyhow, a married couple in a major metropolitan area, filing jointly with an AGI of 250k, is not rich. Life is fine, unless they've made some terrible decisions, but to categorize them in the "1%" is a joke. Their wealth profile is completely different than a married couple making 250k in Arkansas. Their wealth profile is completely different than a single person making 250k anywhere. So even with you agree with an aggressively progressive tax code, the approach as outlined isn't really "fair" like its proponents claim.

gimmesometruth27

you can not complain about deficits if you are unwilling to contribute to try to reduce it. it is that simple.

that is like me bitching about credit card debt, then quitting my job, and then continuing to use the card.

MotoDC

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

you can not complain about deficits if you are unwilling to contribute to try to reduce it. it is that simple.

that is like me bitching about credit card debt, then quitting my job, and then continuing to use the card.

I get the parallel you're trying to draw but I think it falls way short. First of all, I AM contributing to it. Quite a bit, in fact. Second of all, while I do have a direct line into the revenue part of the budget (via the taxes I pay), I do NOT have a direct line into the expense part of the budget. Yeah I can vote, but that is indirect at best, the way both sides spend these days.

I just have a hard time, deep down in my gut, giving more money to people (meaning our gov't) who have proven time and again they have no idea how to use it responsibly. Prove to me you can use it right and maybe I'd be willing for fork over a few more sheckles.

edited for typos

satansbed

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah, when push comes to shove these 2 parties always fall back to their stupidest ideas:

1) GOP - let's get people riled up over what other people choose to do in their personal lives

2) Dems - Let's blame it on the rich and get more tax money


Neither wants to reduce spending as a whole, only on a few things and all in all raise spending every year. Neither cares about creating jobs, just remaining in their own job.

The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same things and expect different results. Well folks, they are insane and so are we. Time to vote every incumbent out. Pay close attention to 3rd parties, especially at the local level (if they are even an option). If you are going to vote for a Big 2 party, vote the bums out. Send a message, or just continue to always blame it on the other guy or the other side and remain insane.

quite frankly if thats the case then the republicans are a lot more dangerous

having said that it is not like the Dems are saying lets raise the taxes on the rich exponentially so they will only have as much money as the normal people, its let them pay a couple of percent more so that when we have to cut the shit out of everything then we can always say that we have spread the pain.

brianlux

"I'm not doing anything radical here," Obama said. Exactly. I can't see how anyone making over 250 K per year would complain. At the most they pay a couple thousand dollars more a year in taxes. BFD. Meanwhile those of us who are self-employed and see 250 K as WAY beyond our scope pay both halves into social security and I don't see that changing.

Super rich- stop whining!

Jason P

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

you can not complain about deficits if you are unwilling to contribute to try to reduce it. it is that simple.

that is like me bitching about credit card debt, then quitting my job, and then continuing to use the card.

I work and pay taxes. Have since the 7th grade. I've had my contribute and complain card as long as PJ has been together.

cincybearcat

satansbed wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah, when push comes to shove these 2 parties always fall back to their stupidest ideas:

1) GOP - let's get people riled up over what other people choose to do in their personal lives

2) Dems - Let's blame it on the rich and get more tax money


Neither wants to reduce spending as a whole, only on a few things and all in all raise spending every year. Neither cares about creating jobs, just remaining in their own job.

The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same things and expect different results. Well folks, they are insane and so are we. Time to vote every incumbent out. Pay close attention to 3rd parties, especially at the local level (if they are even an option). If you are going to vote for a Big 2 party, vote the bums out. Send a message, or just continue to always blame it on the other guy or the other side and remain insane.

quite frankly if thats the case then the republicans are a lot more dangerous

having said that it is not like the Dems are saying lets raise the taxes on the rich exponentially so they will only have as much money as the normal people, its let them pay a couple of percent more so that when we have to cut the shit out of everything then we can always say that we have spread the pain.

I see you bought their bullshit. Good thing someone else will liekly pay for it for you.

cincybearcat

brianlux wrote:

"I'm not doing anything radical here," Obama said. Exactly. I can't see how anyone making over 250 K per year would complain. At the most they pay a couple thousand dollars more a year in taxes. BFD. Meanwhile those of us who are self-employed and see 250 K as WAY beyond our scope pay both halves into social security and I don't see that changing.

Super rich- stop whining!

250k/yr for a family isn't super rich.

The ones whining are those asking other to pay for all their shit...yet again, and again, and again...

gimmesometruth27

MotoDC wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

you can not complain about deficits if you are unwilling to contribute to try to reduce it. it is that simple.

that is like me bitching about credit card debt, then quitting my job, and then continuing to use the card.

I get the parallel you're trying to draw but I think it falls way short. First of all, I AM contributing to it. Quite a bit, in fact. Second of all, while I do have a direct line into the revenue part of the budget (via the taxes I pay), I do NOT have a direct line into the expense part of the budget. Yeah I can vote, but that is indirect at best, the way both sides spend these days.

I just have a hard time, deep down in my gut, giving more money to people (meaning our gov't) who have proven time and again they have no idea how to use it responsibly. Prove to me you can use it right and maybe I'd be willing for fork over a few more sheckles.

edited for typos

i completely understand your points. believe me i do. but if cutting military spending is off the table then all of this discussion is moot. the military is the biggest drain on us. we are spending hundreds of billions of dollars and what are we getting out of it? how are the people of this country benefitting from that money spent? if some of that money was deferred to other things like paying down the debt or reducing the deficit, or even universal single payer health care, we would be better off as a country.

the fact is the people making over $250,000 are doing a hell of a lot better than people like myself, and they are benefitting from the system more than people like myself, they can afford to pay a little more.

the wealthy are called job creators. they have benefitted from the same tax cuts for the last 10 years, but they have failed to create the jobs that they were supposed to. they shipped a lot of them overseas. they could get tax incentives for their businesses to bring the jobs back here, or they could pay a little more in taxes.

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

the fact is the people making over $250,000 are doing a hell of a lot better than people like myself, and they are benefitting from the system more than people like myself, they can afford to pay a little more.

How so?

satansbed

cincybearcat wrote:

satansbed wrote:

quite frankly if thats the case then the republicans are a lot more dangerous

having said that it is not like the Dems are saying lets raise the taxes on the rich exponentially so they will only have as much money as the normal people, its let them pay a couple of percent more so that when we have to cut the shit out of everything then we can always say that we have spread the pain.

I see you bought their bullshit. Good thing someone else will liekly pay for it for you.

alot of democrats themselves earn alot over 250000, there not going to punitively damage themselves, to solve the debt problem there HAS to be tax increases, the democrats aren't looking to make it a 50/50 split taxes to spending cuts. the wan't 20% of the difference from taxes and 80% percent of the difference from spending cuts.

anywhere else in the world the democrat policys would be that of a centre right party

MotoDC

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

MotoDC wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

you can not complain about deficits if you are unwilling to contribute to try to reduce it. it is that simple.

that is like me bitching about credit card debt, then quitting my job, and then continuing to use the card.

I get the parallel you're trying to draw but I think it falls way short. First of all, I AM contributing to it. Quite a bit, in fact. Second of all, while I do have a direct line into the revenue part of the budget (via the taxes I pay), I do NOT have a direct line into the expense part of the budget. Yeah I can vote, but that is indirect at best, the way both sides spend these days.

I just have a hard time, deep down in my gut, giving more money to people (meaning our gov't) who have proven time and again they have no idea how to use it responsibly. Prove to me you can use it right and maybe I'd be willing for fork over a few more sheckles.

edited for typos

i completely understand your points. believe me i do. but if cutting military spending is off the table then all of this discussion is moot. the military is the biggest drain on us. we are spending hundreds of billions of dollars and what are we getting out of it? how are the people of this country benefitting from that money spent? if some of that money was deferred to other things like paying down the debt or reducing the deficit, or even universal single payer health care, we would be better off as a country.

the fact is the people making over $250,000 are doing a hell of a lot better than people like myself, and they are benefitting from the system more than people like myself, they can afford to pay a little more.

the wealthy are called job creators. they have benefitted from the same tax cuts for the last 10 years, but they have failed to create the jobs that they were supposed to. they shipped a lot of them overseas. they could get tax incentives for their businesses to bring the jobs back here, or they could pay a little more in taxes.

Stop the fucking presses, I think I agree with gimmie. At least in part.

We probably don't agree on the extent to which those particular cuts should be made, but I'm not one of those people who think we should cut entitlements to the poor while continuing our lavish ways with bombs and guns and YF-22's, etc. Cuts need to be made across the board and, indeed, the military has a lot to contribute there, when you consider their current slice of the budget.

As far as the wealthy creating jobs, it's probably more accurate to say the successful small business person creates jobs. Many, many (if not most) of those folks are in the 250k+ bracket.

inlet13

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

the fact is the people making over $250,000 are doing a hell of a lot better than people like myself

I'm betting people making over $250,000 don't have 9K posts on a rock band's message board. I'd bet a lot of them, if not most, don't have the time to do that. So, if you want to do as well as them financially, it may make practical sense to not post and focus on work? Not trying to rag on you, I'm being serious. Maybe get a job that pays well, or go into a field where you can make more money? You seem to think their entitled to pay more than you because they make more money, why not become one of them and show em' how it's done? The government won't turn down your money once your making $250K+ and offer to give them more than the going tax rate! Just to clarify - effort "could" be one reason they make more... if "you" put in the effort, maybe "you" could make more too? Then, after you've put in the effort to make more and succeed, maybe you wouldn't have such a feeling of entitlement? I don't know... just thinking out loud here..

Moreover, please understand that a flat tax structure would still have those making $250,000 paying more than you do. A guy making $270K at 15% tax rate pays more than at guy making $50K at a 15% tax rate. Regardless, we don't have a flat tax structure. We have a progressive tax structure. So, those making $250K + already pay a hell of a lot more than you. But, to be clear... You want more. You're not thrilled that those making over $250K pay roughly 50% of all income taxes paid.... you want more.

A tax is a tax. Big government is big government.

(Other than that, I agree we should cut the military budget - as well as we should cut everything else. But, I disagree we should raise taxes on ANYONE... that will only provide government with more of a blank check to continue this charade.)

satansbed

MotoDC wrote:

Stop the fucking presses, I think I agree with gimmie. At least in part.

We probably don't agree on the extent to which those particular cuts should be made, but I'm not one of those people who think we should cut entitlements to the poor while continuing our lavish ways with bombs and guns and YF-22's, etc. Cuts need to be made across the board and, indeed, the military has a lot to contribute there, when you consider their current slice of the budget.

As far as the wealthy creating jobs, it's probably more accurate to say the successful small business person creates jobs. Many, many (if not most) of those folks are in the 250k+ bracket.

but that 250K+ isn't money they create jobs with it is the money they take out of the business.

i would like to meet a small business owner who runs a business, invests some profit back into it and still takes home 250K+

cincybearcat

Looks like some other disagree...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -tax-cuts/

satansbed

cincybearcat wrote:

Looks like some other disagree...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -tax-cuts/

ha i may be working for him come october/november

anyway as with anything there are politics at play and if he wasn't going to be in such a tight race in Virginia of all places he would have no problem with obama's proposal

now that is just my own personal reading of the situation and i have no inside knowledge of the situation

cincybearcat

satansbed wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Looks like some other disagree...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -tax-cuts/

ha i may be working for him come october/november

anyway as with anything there are politics at play and if he wasn't going to be in such a tight race in Virginia of all places he would have no problem with obama's proposal

now that is just my own personal reading of the situation and i have no inside knowledge of the situation

Here's the irony...how many of those Top 1% rely on an income?

Raise the rate all you want, you only get the people actually working for their $.

gimmesometruth27

thanks for the condescending assessment of my situation, but you don't fucking know me. i work in a physican's office about 50 hours a week and i have a lot of time to post here between patients. i drive 50 minutes each way, i have a good salary but not great, as i can afford to do most of whatever i want to do and have some nice things. you are here just as much as i am per day, because you are always online when i am, so there goes your theory about time wasted..... fact is, i live alone, own my own house, have 2 cars, one nice luxury daily driver, one specifically for my band, and i don't need armchair economists like yourself, who do not know what i do for a living, telling me how i could better utilize my time or how i can simply just spontaneously improve my financial situation....

wages are stagnant in this economy while the cost of everything is going up.

and honestly mr libertarian, in most medical careers, you can't just automatically make more money. you can't just wish you made an extra 2 grand a month and have it magically happen. it does not work that way in the real world of a middle class american.

and as far as the "effort" premise, what you are saying is the same, hollow, bullshit promise that the republicans since reagan have been telling the lower class and middle class to get them to vote for people who will implement and maintain trickle down economics. "pick yourself up by the bootstraps. you too can be one of us. you are on welfare now as a 50 year old man, but you too can be rich one day if you vote for us...don't worry, the wealth will trickle down to you..." this is the republican ideal and their version or reality. the reality of most liberals and progressives is quite different. the poor do not worry about deficits on a daily basis.. they worry about where their next meal is coming from. if their power or air conditioning is going to be turned off. how they are going to pay for bus fare or prescription medications to stay alive. tese are things the most republicans have never ever had to think about.

what about food stamps? what about the poor? you want to cut programs that make sure those people eat so the rich can save a few grand a year? it can not work that way.

how can a great country improve itself when those in government act as if they hate the lower classes?

the military budget has to be shrunk before anything else gets cut. if i were in government and the republicans agree to significantly cut military spending i would put more of my platform on the table to be cut. if the gop refuses to put military cuts on the table, then i would not negotiate with them at all. they can not have it both ways...

inlet13 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

the fact is the people making over $250,000 are doing a hell of a lot better than people like myself

I'm betting people making over $250,000 don't have 9K posts on a rock band's message board. I'd bet a lot of them, if not most, don't have the time to do that. So, if you want to do as well as them financially, it may make practical sense to not post and focus on work? Not trying to rag on you, I'm being serious. Maybe get a job that pays well, or go into a field where you can make more money? You seem to think their entitled to pay more than you because they make more money, why not become one of them and show em' how it's done? The government won't turn down your money once your making $250K+ and offer to give them more than the going tax rate! Just to clarify - effort "could" be one reason they make more... if "you" put in the effort, maybe "you" could make more too? Then, after you've put in the effort to make more and succeed, maybe you wouldn't have such a feeling of entitlement? I don't know... just thinking out loud here..

Moreover, please understand that a flat tax structure would still have those making $250,000 paying more than you do. A guy making $270K at 15% tax rate pays more than at guy making $50K at a 15% tax rate. Regardless, we don't have a flat tax structure. We have a progressive tax structure. So, those making $250K + already pay a hell of a lot more than you. But, to be clear... You want more. You're not thrilled that those making over $250K pay roughly 50% of all income taxes paid.... you want more.

A tax is a tax. Big government is big government.

(Other than that, I agree we should cut the military budget - as well as we should cut everything else. But, I disagree we should raise taxes on ANYONE... that will only provide government with more of a blank check to continue this charade.)

gimmesometruth27

cincybearcat wrote:

satansbed wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Looks like some other disagree...

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/20 ... -tax-cuts/

ha i may be working for him come october/november

anyway as with anything there are politics at play and if he wasn't going to be in such a tight race in Virginia of all places he would have no problem with obama's proposal

now that is just my own personal reading of the situation and i have no inside knowledge of the situation

Here's the irony...how many of those Top 1% rely on an income?

Raise the rate all you want, you only get the people actually working for their $.

increase capital gains to clinton levels. also increase those making over $250 gs to clinton levels. the economy was fine under him.