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Class War-Fair Share

Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
edited July 2012 in A Moving Train
I guess it's official. This will be one of Obama's main rally calls going into the election.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-let-bush-era-tax-cuts-wealthiest-expire-172849154.html

I look forward to seeing how much this helps getting a balanced budget approved.

:corn:
Be Excellent To Each Other
Party On, Dudes!
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Comments

  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    letting tax cuts expire on the rich, including himself, is what he said he would do as a candidate the first time. and over the last few years that idea is not just popular, but very popular in polls. he is right, a majority of the people are with him on this one...
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    letting tax cuts expire on the rich, including himself, is what he said he would do as a candidate the first time. and over the last few years that idea is not just popular, but very popular in polls. he is right, a majority of the people are with him on this one...
    I'm cool with it because I'm selfish and it doesn't affect me. I probably won't be cool with it when they expire on me a year later.

    But he has to explain how this affects the deficit. Where do we stand big-picture with the influx of cash that is forecast?

    I'm visualizing the deficit as a shoreline and the tax as one of those holes you dug as a kid that gets filled back in by the evening tide.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • aerialaerial Posts: 2,319
    Who agrees with this? I read the comments and did not see one comment that agrees with this..
    “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    aerial wrote:
    Who agrees with this? I read the comments and did not see one comment that agrees with this..
    have you seen any poll other than a rasmussen report in the last 3 years? there is a statistically significant number of people that favor this in every major poll.

    the only people who are against it is some of the rich people and the tea party, which is a cohort of people that vote against their own interests anyway so....
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    aerial wrote:
    Who agrees with this? I read the comments and did not see one comment that agrees with this..
    ...
    I agree. Personally, I'm about $140,000.00 a years short of the cut-off point.
    If I get a $140,000.00 a year pay raise tomorrow... I might think differently.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    Who agrees with this? I read the comments and did not see one comment that agrees with this..
    have you seen any poll other than a rasmussen report in the last 3 years? there is a statistically significant number of people that favor this in every major poll.

    the only people who are against it is some of the rich people and the tea party, which is a cohort of people that vote against their own interests anyway so....


    If I here someone say "vote against there own interests" one more time to describe non-rich republicans I am going to throw up. What you may feel is best for them may not be that important to them. I know it is shocking, but some people don't vote for those who want to take more of someone else's money whether they would benefit from it or not. but those people are just all brainwashed right?

    I am against tax raises on anyone. I don't care who it is. raising rates isn't going to do anything but plug a giant hole with some bubble gum...Revision of the actual tax code is what should be his focus if he truly wanted to make a difference. This is just a simple way of getting votes from people who believe it is crazy that there are some others out there that are poor that still don't vote to take money from those that are rich. I don't understand how anyone who complains about the federal government as much as you do wants them to have any more money...democrat, republican, or other...it doesn't matter...they have proven to be incompetent and the more they have the more damage they can do.

    and Gimmie, since when does public opinion matter? I didn't know we should run on mob rule. There was a time when segregation was supported by the majority, when the Iraq war was supported by the majority of people, when George W Bush won re-election for christ's sake...I am not sure our measuring stick should be the majority of people want it.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    "voting" against your own interests is when people vote for things that will harm them. a middle class union member voting for scott walker is voting against himself and hurting his own future by voting to weaken his union. a vote for romney would be me voting against my own future, so i am not gonna vote for him.

    public opinion does matter. obama has always been politically astute. and more often than not, he has been right and he has gone with public opinion, and when he acted on his own he actually swayed the polls in his favor. this was the case with gay marriage, ending don't ask, don't tell, and more recently, opinion of him and opinion of obamacare actually inproved after the supreme court upheld it.

    you can not get there by cuts alone, and a balanced approach of budget cuts and raising income is what we need. you and i have a fundamental disagreement regarding taxes and i am not going to change my opinion that those that can pay more should.

    if we want a balanced budget we need to talk about the elephant in the corner, which is the military industrial complex and our defense spending on our military. if one votes to cut funding for it they are considered unpatriotic, but that is what is killing us. all of those billions of dollars going to things whose only purpose is to cause death. if we put 1/2 of the effort and resources into promoting life and improving it for the greatest number of people instead of ending it via bombs and neglect then one day we might get where we need to be.
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    If I here someone say "vote against there own interests" one more time to describe non-rich republicans I am going to throw up. What you may feel is best for them may not be that important to them. I know it is shocking, but some people don't vote for those who want to take more of someone else's money whether they would benefit from it or not. but those people are just all brainwashed right?

    I am against tax raises on anyone. I don't care who it is. raising rates isn't going to do anything but plug a giant hole with some bubble gum...Revision of the actual tax code is what should be his focus if he truly wanted to make a difference. This is just a simple way of getting votes from people who believe it is crazy that there are some others out there that are poor that still don't vote to take money from those that are rich. I don't understand how anyone who complains about the federal government as much as you do wants them to have any more money...democrat, republican, or other...it doesn't matter...they have proven to be incompetent and the more they have the more damage they can do.

    and Gimmie, since when does public opinion matter? I didn't know we should run on mob rule. There was a time when segregation was supported by the majority, when the Iraq war was supported by the majority of people, when George W Bush won re-election for christ's sake...I am not sure our measuring stick should be the majority of people want it.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    "voting" against your own interests is when people vote for things that will harm them. a middle class union member voting for scott walker is voting against himself and hurting his own future by voting to weaken his union. a vote for romney would be me voting against my own future, so i am not gonna vote for him.
    I am not sure how you equate those two things. Being in a union doesn't mean you agree with everything your union allows and does. Some people, like myself, saw that while the union was attempting to do good, they were adding many costs that didn't need to be there. Again, sometimes the bottom line isn't the most important thing to people. Union representation may not be the most important thing to a union member...So to say voting against your interests is silly, they vote on their interests, it just doesn't always line up with yours or mine. Some people will do anything and take any hit necessary to get more anti abortion candidates in office...so when Ted Jones supports people who literally say they will take Ted Jones money, but they also are stictly anti abortion and will fight to end it...is he voting against his interests? or is he making an informed decision? I know people on the left feel that republicans can never make an informed opinion without the ok from the overlords, but sometimes people just have different priorities. I support keeping all the tax cuts in place, I am not any of the things you described earlier. In fact, I think the arrogance it takes to assume that someone else knows what is better for me than myself is why I hate government expansion to begin with...

    public opinion does matter. obama has always been politically astute. and more often than not, he has been right and he has gone with public opinion, and when he acted on his own he actually swayed the polls in his favor. this was the case with gay marriage, ending don't ask, don't tell, and more recently, opinion of him and opinion of obamacare actually inproved after the supreme court upheld it.

    I agree he has been politically astute on a lot of things. But again I would say that using public opinion for support for tax cut expiration doesn't necessarily mean it is the best thing for the country. That is all I was getting at...Public opinion isn't a good measuring stick to use because it sways incredibly quick...People support some crazy things in the heat of the moment.
    you can not get there by cuts alone, and a balanced approach of budget cuts and raising income is what we need. you and i have a fundamental disagreement regarding taxes and i am not going to change my opinion that those that can pay more should.
    which is why I said the tax code needs to be revised, not a few percentage points on the backs of a small group of people. they have the money, and they can afford it, but eventually they will figure out how not to pay it.
    if we want a balanced budget we need to talk about the elephant in the corner, which is the military industrial complex and our defense spending on our military. if one votes to cut funding for it they are considered unpatriotic, but that is what is killing us. all of those billions of dollars going to things whose only purpose is to cause death. if we put 1/2 of the effort and resources into promoting life and improving it for the greatest number of people instead of ending it via bombs and neglect then one day we might get where we need to be.

    right. I agree. The MIC is a danger to us all. But let's talk about supporting something not in your best interest...you want them to have more money through tax increases...yet they have proven to use that money time and again to build bigger and better bombs and do nothing with it domestically, yet you want to give them more to do that with...that is what I don't understand...Fool me once shame on me fool me twice...I won't get fooled again...
    mikepegg44 wrote:
    If I here someone say "vote against there own interests" one more time to describe non-rich republicans I am going to throw up. What you may feel is best for them may not be that important to them. I know it is shocking, but some people don't vote for those who want to take more of someone else's money whether they would benefit from it or not. but those people are just all brainwashed right?

    I am against tax raises on anyone. I don't care who it is. raising rates isn't going to do anything but plug a giant hole with some bubble gum...Revision of the actual tax code is what should be his focus if he truly wanted to make a difference. This is just a simple way of getting votes from people who believe it is crazy that there are some others out there that are poor that still don't vote to take money from those that are rich. I don't understand how anyone who complains about the federal government as much as you do wants them to have any more money...democrat, republican, or other...it doesn't matter...they have proven to be incompetent and the more they have the more damage they can do.

    and Gimmie, since when does public opinion matter? I didn't know we should run on mob rule. There was a time when segregation was supported by the majority, when the Iraq war was supported by the majority of people, when George W Bush won re-election for christ's sake...I am not sure our measuring stick should be the majority of people want it.
    [/quote]
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,492
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    aerial wrote:
    Who agrees with this? I read the comments and did not see one comment that agrees with this..
    have you seen any poll other than a rasmussen report in the last 3 years? there is a statistically significant number of people that favor this in every major poll.

    the only people who are against it is some of the rich people and the tea party, which is a cohort of people that vote against their own interests anyway so....


    It's easy to vote to give up other people's $, I'm not surprised.

    Lots of people vote against gay marriage too.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • CH156378CH156378 Posts: 1,539
    this shit is getting really fucking old.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    from last september..

    http://www.politicususa.com/polls-taxes-deficit.html

    from december 2011

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... lionaires/

    from february 2012

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/14/us/po ... -jobs.html

    from april 2012

    http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepoliti ... axes-poll/

    from today...

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/1714/taxes.aspx
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    Jason P wrote:
    I guess it's official. This will be one of Obama's main rally calls going into the election.

    http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-let-bush-era-tax-cuts-wealthiest-expire-172849154.html

    I look forward to seeing how much this helps getting a balanced budget approved.

    :corn:

    why do you look forward to "getting a balanced budget approved"....?

    and this "class war-fair" meme is stupid...yeah, the poors are waging war against the wealthy....I wonder who's going to win the "war".... :lol:
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    for one year ?..you guys know I lean towards the republican side of things although I'm not a solid to the bone republican but I'm a little razzled about any tax issue that does not work evenly and fair for everyone..why punish the the people that have earned more money than us ? and why are tax's so high to begin with ? I know it wassn't my job to ballance the budget and I diden't write the checks that got us into this mess and I did not o.k. the stimuless that put a few trillion deeper into the hole and I don't think the people making $225,000 a year asked for it either....


    Subject: Budget Lessons 1 and 2
    Don't miss lesson #2...


    Some of you will like this and some won’t…
    Lesson # 1:

    * U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
    * Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
    * New debt: $1,650,000,000,000
    * National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
    * Recent budget cuts: $38,500,000,000

    Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:

    * Annual family income: $21,700
    * Money the family spent: $38,200
    * New debt on the credit card: $16,500
    * Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
    * Total budget cuts: $385

    Got It ??

    OK. Now, Lesson # 2:
    Another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:

    Let's say you come home from work and find there’s been a sewer backup in your neighborhood and your house has sewage all the way up to your ceilings. What do you think you should do....

    (A) raise the ceilings, or
    (B) pump out the crap?

    Your choice is coming Nov. 2012



    Godfather.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    Above the poverty level, I do not think people should be taxed unfairly.

    Also, I'm not in favor of giving more money to the government and that is the real issue here.

    I don't understand the mindset of people who seem to want to punish other people by making them pay more taxes than they themselves pay, but I really don't understand the mentality of people wanting to give more money to the government.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    cincybearcat wrote:


    It's easy to vote to give up other people's $, I'm not surprised.

    Lots of people vote against gay marriage too.

    Good point.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    "punished"...???

    I love the rhetoric...oh those poor poor wealthy...always being picked on...I'm glad folks are standing up for them... :lol:

    seriously...taxes are simply a cost of being a citizen...if you don't like it, as I've said before, don't pay them or funnel your money offshore...

    millionaire paying more = terrible...

    a family making 20 grand a year = lazy bastards sucking the teat of society, pay up chump....
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    just thouight I'd share this little bit of info with you guys, politics money and unions and the unions have more pull than most believe.

    Godfather.

    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 50026.html
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    inmytree wrote:
    why do you look forward to "getting a balanced budget approved"....?

    and this "class war-fair" meme is stupid...yeah, the poors are waging war against the wealthy....I wonder who's going to win the "war".... :lol:
    I look forward to a balanced budget so we don't have to keep raising the debt ceiling each year, devaluing the dollar each year, raising taxes each year, and lowering our credit rating each year. Duh.

    And I was playing on both phrases that both sides are using. I thought it was a little clever. 8-)
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    Jason P wrote:
    inmytree wrote:
    why do you look forward to "getting a balanced budget approved"....?

    and this "class war-fair" meme is stupid...yeah, the poors are waging war against the wealthy....I wonder who's going to win the "war".... :lol:
    I look forward to a balanced budget so we don't have to keep raising the debt ceiling each year, devaluing the dollar each year, raising taxes each year, and lowering our credit rating each year. Duh.

    And I was playing on both phrases that both sides are using. I thought it was a little clever. 8-)

    too clever for me apparently... ;):mrgreen:

    :lol:

    now that I understand....I say "well played, sir"...
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    Here is an example on how our leaders are not focusing on creating major change and instead try to confuse us:

    Obama threatened to veto a full extension of the Bush tax cuts, saying in an interview with WWL-TV in New Orleans that a tax cut for the wealthiest two percent of Americans would cost $1 trillion over the next decade at a time when the nation needs to reduce the federal deficit.

    http://news.yahoo.com/iowa-obama-pitch-tax-cuts-064957388.html

    Uh, the deficit in 2010 alone was $1.2 trillion.
    Uh, the deficit in 2011 alone was $1.56 trillion.
    Uh, the deficit in 2012 is forecast to be $1.3 trillion.

    Based on the average, in ten years we will be an additional $13.5 trillion in the hole ... but if the tax cuts are not extended on the rich, we will only be $12.5 trillion in the hole.

    I don't think it matters who gets elected at this point. The deficit will continue to increase and the public will get distracted by smart politicians who know their trade and wave shiny objects to distract us from the raging tire fire directly behind them.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,492
    Yeah, when push comes to shove these 2 parties always fall back to their stupidest ideas:

    1) GOP - let's get people riled up over what other people choose to do in their personal lives

    2) Dems - Let's blame it on the rich and get more tax money


    Neither wants to reduce spending as a whole, only on a few things and all in all raise spending every year. Neither cares about creating jobs, just remaining in their own job.

    The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same things and expect different results. Well folks, they are insane and so are we. Time to vote every incumbent out. Pay close attention to 3rd parties, especially at the local level (if they are even an option). If you are going to vote for a Big 2 party, vote the bums out. Send a message, or just continue to always blame it on the other guy or the other side and remain insane.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    the only people who are against it is some of the rich people and the tea party, which is a cohort of people that vote against their own interests anyway so....
    Really? I'm sure that's based on something very scientific.

    Anyhow, a married couple in a major metropolitan area, filing jointly with an AGI of 250k, is not rich. Life is fine, unless they've made some terrible decisions, but to categorize them in the "1%" is a joke. Their wealth profile is completely different than a married couple making 250k in Arkansas. Their wealth profile is completely different than a single person making 250k anywhere. So even with you agree with an aggressively progressive tax code, the approach as outlined isn't really "fair" like its proponents claim.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    you can not complain about deficits if you are unwilling to contribute to try to reduce it. it is that simple.

    that is like me bitching about credit card debt, then quitting my job, and then continuing to use the card.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • MotoDCMotoDC Posts: 947
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    you can not complain about deficits if you are unwilling to contribute to try to reduce it. it is that simple.

    that is like me bitching about credit card debt, then quitting my job, and then continuing to use the card.
    I get the parallel you're trying to draw but I think it falls way short. First of all, I AM contributing to it. Quite a bit, in fact. Second of all, while I do have a direct line into the revenue part of the budget (via the taxes I pay), I do NOT have a direct line into the expense part of the budget. Yeah I can vote, but that is indirect at best, the way both sides spend these days.

    I just have a hard time, deep down in my gut, giving more money to people (meaning our gov't) who have proven time and again they have no idea how to use it responsibly. Prove to me you can use it right and maybe I'd be willing for fork over a few more sheckles.

    edited for typos
  • satansbedsatansbed Posts: 2,139
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Yeah, when push comes to shove these 2 parties always fall back to their stupidest ideas:

    1) GOP - let's get people riled up over what other people choose to do in their personal lives

    2) Dems - Let's blame it on the rich and get more tax money


    Neither wants to reduce spending as a whole, only on a few things and all in all raise spending every year. Neither cares about creating jobs, just remaining in their own job.

    The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same things and expect different results. Well folks, they are insane and so are we. Time to vote every incumbent out. Pay close attention to 3rd parties, especially at the local level (if they are even an option). If you are going to vote for a Big 2 party, vote the bums out. Send a message, or just continue to always blame it on the other guy or the other side and remain insane.

    quite frankly if thats the case then the republicans are a lot more dangerous

    having said that it is not like the Dems are saying lets raise the taxes on the rich exponentially so they will only have as much money as the normal people, its let them pay a couple of percent more so that when we have to cut the shit out of everything then we can always say that we have spread the pain.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
    "I'm not doing anything radical here," Obama said. Exactly. I can't see how anyone making over 250 K per year would complain. At the most they pay a couple thousand dollars more a year in taxes. BFD. Meanwhile those of us who are self-employed and see 250 K as WAY beyond our scope pay both halves into social security and I don't see that changing.

    Super rich- stop whining!
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    you can not complain about deficits if you are unwilling to contribute to try to reduce it. it is that simple.

    that is like me bitching about credit card debt, then quitting my job, and then continuing to use the card.
    I work and pay taxes. Have since the 7th grade. I've had my contribute and complain card as long as PJ has been together.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,492
    satansbed wrote:
    cincybearcat wrote:
    Yeah, when push comes to shove these 2 parties always fall back to their stupidest ideas:

    1) GOP - let's get people riled up over what other people choose to do in their personal lives

    2) Dems - Let's blame it on the rich and get more tax money


    Neither wants to reduce spending as a whole, only on a few things and all in all raise spending every year. Neither cares about creating jobs, just remaining in their own job.

    The definition of insanity is to continue to do the same things and expect different results. Well folks, they are insane and so are we. Time to vote every incumbent out. Pay close attention to 3rd parties, especially at the local level (if they are even an option). If you are going to vote for a Big 2 party, vote the bums out. Send a message, or just continue to always blame it on the other guy or the other side and remain insane.

    quite frankly if thats the case then the republicans are a lot more dangerous

    having said that it is not like the Dems are saying lets raise the taxes on the rich exponentially so they will only have as much money as the normal people, its let them pay a couple of percent more so that when we have to cut the shit out of everything then we can always say that we have spread the pain.

    I see you bought their bullshit. Good thing someone else will liekly pay for it for you. ;)
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,492
    brianlux wrote:
    "I'm not doing anything radical here," Obama said. Exactly. I can't see how anyone making over 250 K per year would complain. At the most they pay a couple thousand dollars more a year in taxes. BFD. Meanwhile those of us who are self-employed and see 250 K as WAY beyond our scope pay both halves into social security and I don't see that changing.

    Super rich- stop whining!


    250k/yr for a family isn't super rich.

    The ones whining are those asking other to pay for all their shit...yet again, and again, and again...
    hippiemom = goodness
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    MotoDC wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    you can not complain about deficits if you are unwilling to contribute to try to reduce it. it is that simple.

    that is like me bitching about credit card debt, then quitting my job, and then continuing to use the card.
    I get the parallel you're trying to draw but I think it falls way short. First of all, I AM contributing to it. Quite a bit, in fact. Second of all, while I do have a direct line into the revenue part of the budget (via the taxes I pay), I do NOT have a direct line into the expense part of the budget. Yeah I can vote, but that is indirect at best, the way both sides spend these days.

    I just have a hard time, deep down in my gut, giving more money to people (meaning our gov't) who have proven time and again they have no idea how to use it responsibly. Prove to me you can use it right and maybe I'd be willing for fork over a few more sheckles.

    edited for typos
    i completely understand your points. believe me i do. but if cutting military spending is off the table then all of this discussion is moot. the military is the biggest drain on us. we are spending hundreds of billions of dollars and what are we getting out of it? how are the people of this country benefitting from that money spent? if some of that money was deferred to other things like paying down the debt or reducing the deficit, or even universal single payer health care, we would be better off as a country.

    the fact is the people making over $250,000 are doing a hell of a lot better than people like myself, and they are benefitting from the system more than people like myself, they can afford to pay a little more.

    the wealthy are called job creators. they have benefitted from the same tax cuts for the last 10 years, but they have failed to create the jobs that they were supposed to. they shipped a lot of them overseas. they could get tax incentives for their businesses to bring the jobs back here, or they could pay a little more in taxes.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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