Class War-Fair Share

Jason P

I guess it's official. This will be one of Obama's main rally calls going into the election.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-let-bush-era-tax-cuts-wealthiest-expire-172849154.html

I look forward to seeing how much this helps getting a balanced budget approved.

:corn:

gimmesometruth27

letting tax cuts expire on the rich, including himself, is what he said he would do as a candidate the first time. and over the last few years that idea is not just popular, but very popular in polls. he is right, a majority of the people are with him on this one...

Jason P

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

letting tax cuts expire on the rich, including himself, is what he said he would do as a candidate the first time. and over the last few years that idea is not just popular, but very popular in polls. he is right, a majority of the people are with him on this one...

I'm cool with it because I'm selfish and it doesn't affect me. I probably won't be cool with it when they expire on me a year later.

But he has to explain how this affects the deficit. Where do we stand big-picture with the influx of cash that is forecast?

I'm visualizing the deficit as a shoreline and the tax as one of those holes you dug as a kid that gets filled back in by the evening tide.

aerial

Who agrees with this? I read the comments and did not see one comment that agrees with this..

gimmesometruth27

aerial wrote:

Who agrees with this? I read the comments and did not see one comment that agrees with this..

have you seen any poll other than a rasmussen report in the last 3 years? there is a statistically significant number of people that favor this in every major poll.

the only people who are against it is some of the rich people and the tea party, which is a cohort of people that vote against their own interests anyway so....

Cosmo

aerial wrote:

Who agrees with this? I read the comments and did not see one comment that agrees with this..

...
I agree. Personally, I'm about $140,000.00 a years short of the cut-off point.
If I get a $140,000.00 a year pay raise tomorrow... I might think differently.

mikepegg44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

aerial wrote:

Who agrees with this? I read the comments and did not see one comment that agrees with this..

have you seen any poll other than a rasmussen report in the last 3 years? there is a statistically significant number of people that favor this in every major poll.

the only people who are against it is some of the rich people and the tea party, which is a cohort of people that vote against their own interests anyway so....

If I here someone say "vote against there own interests" one more time to describe non-rich republicans I am going to throw up. What you may feel is best for them may not be that important to them. I know it is shocking, but some people don't vote for those who want to take more of someone else's money whether they would benefit from it or not. but those people are just all brainwashed right?

I am against tax raises on anyone. I don't care who it is. raising rates isn't going to do anything but plug a giant hole with some bubble gum...Revision of the actual tax code is what should be his focus if he truly wanted to make a difference. This is just a simple way of getting votes from people who believe it is crazy that there are some others out there that are poor that still don't vote to take money from those that are rich. I don't understand how anyone who complains about the federal government as much as you do wants them to have any more money...democrat, republican, or other...it doesn't matter...they have proven to be incompetent and the more they have the more damage they can do.

and Gimmie, since when does public opinion matter? I didn't know we should run on mob rule. There was a time when segregation was supported by the majority, when the Iraq war was supported by the majority of people, when George W Bush won re-election for christ's sake...I am not sure our measuring stick should be the majority of people want it.

gimmesometruth27

"voting" against your own interests is when people vote for things that will harm them. a middle class union member voting for scott walker is voting against himself and hurting his own future by voting to weaken his union. a vote for romney would be me voting against my own future, so i am not gonna vote for him.

public opinion does matter. obama has always been politically astute. and more often than not, he has been right and he has gone with public opinion, and when he acted on his own he actually swayed the polls in his favor. this was the case with gay marriage, ending don't ask, don't tell, and more recently, opinion of him and opinion of obamacare actually inproved after the supreme court upheld it.

you can not get there by cuts alone, and a balanced approach of budget cuts and raising income is what we need. you and i have a fundamental disagreement regarding taxes and i am not going to change my opinion that those that can pay more should.

if we want a balanced budget we need to talk about the elephant in the corner, which is the military industrial complex and our defense spending on our military. if one votes to cut funding for it they are considered unpatriotic, but that is what is killing us. all of those billions of dollars going to things whose only purpose is to cause death. if we put 1/2 of the effort and resources into promoting life and improving it for the greatest number of people instead of ending it via bombs and neglect then one day we might get where we need to be.

mikepegg44 wrote:

If I here someone say "vote against there own interests" one more time to describe non-rich republicans I am going to throw up. What you may feel is best for them may not be that important to them. I know it is shocking, but some people don't vote for those who want to take more of someone else's money whether they would benefit from it or not. but those people are just all brainwashed right?

I am against tax raises on anyone. I don't care who it is. raising rates isn't going to do anything but plug a giant hole with some bubble gum...Revision of the actual tax code is what should be his focus if he truly wanted to make a difference. This is just a simple way of getting votes from people who believe it is crazy that there are some others out there that are poor that still don't vote to take money from those that are rich. I don't understand how anyone who complains about the federal government as much as you do wants them to have any more money...democrat, republican, or other...it doesn't matter...they have proven to be incompetent and the more they have the more damage they can do.

and Gimmie, since when does public opinion matter? I didn't know we should run on mob rule. There was a time when segregation was supported by the majority, when the Iraq war was supported by the majority of people, when George W Bush won re-election for christ's sake...I am not sure our measuring stick should be the majority of people want it.

mikepegg44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

"voting" against your own interests is when people vote for things that will harm them. a middle class union member voting for scott walker is voting against himself and hurting his own future by voting to weaken his union. a vote for romney would be me voting against my own future, so i am not gonna vote for him.

I am not sure how you equate those two things. Being in a union doesn't mean you agree with everything your union allows and does. Some people, like myself, saw that while the union was attempting to do good, they were adding many costs that didn't need to be there. Again, sometimes the bottom line isn't the most important thing to people. Union representation may not be the most important thing to a union member...So to say voting against your interests is silly, they vote on their interests, it just doesn't always line up with yours or mine. Some people will do anything and take any hit necessary to get more anti abortion candidates in office...so when Ted Jones supports people who literally say they will take Ted Jones money, but they also are stictly anti abortion and will fight to end it...is he voting against his interests? or is he making an informed decision? I know people on the left feel that republicans can never make an informed opinion without the ok from the overlords, but sometimes people just have different priorities. I support keeping all the tax cuts in place, I am not any of the things you described earlier. In fact, I think the arrogance it takes to assume that someone else knows what is better for me than myself is why I hate government expansion to begin with...

public opinion does matter. obama has always been politically astute. and more often than not, he has been right and he has gone with public opinion, and when he acted on his own he actually swayed the polls in his favor. this was the case with gay marriage, ending don't ask, don't tell, and more recently, opinion of him and opinion of obamacare actually inproved after the supreme court upheld it.

I agree he has been politically astute on a lot of things. But again I would say that using public opinion for support for tax cut expiration doesn't necessarily mean it is the best thing for the country. That is all I was getting at...Public opinion isn't a good measuring stick to use because it sways incredibly quick...People support some crazy things in the heat of the moment.

you can not get there by cuts alone, and a balanced approach of budget cuts and raising income is what we need. you and i have a fundamental disagreement regarding taxes and i am not going to change my opinion that those that can pay more should.

which is why I said the tax code needs to be revised, not a few percentage points on the backs of a small group of people. they have the money, and they can afford it, but eventually they will figure out how not to pay it.

if we want a balanced budget we need to talk about the elephant in the corner, which is the military industrial complex and our defense spending on our military. if one votes to cut funding for it they are considered unpatriotic, but that is what is killing us. all of those billions of dollars going to things whose only purpose is to cause death. if we put 1/2 of the effort and resources into promoting life and improving it for the greatest number of people instead of ending it via bombs and neglect then one day we might get where we need to be.

right. I agree. The MIC is a danger to us all. But let's talk about supporting something not in your best interest...you want them to have more money through tax increases...yet they have proven to use that money time and again to build bigger and better bombs and do nothing with it domestically, yet you want to give them more to do that with...that is what I don't understand...Fool me once shame on me fool me twice...I won't get fooled again...

mikepegg44 wrote:

If I here someone say "vote against there own interests" one more time to describe non-rich republicans I am going to throw up. What you may feel is best for them may not be that important to them. I know it is shocking, but some people don't vote for those who want to take more of someone else's money whether they would benefit from it or not. but those people are just all brainwashed right?

I am against tax raises on anyone. I don't care who it is. raising rates isn't going to do anything but plug a giant hole with some bubble gum...Revision of the actual tax code is what should be his focus if he truly wanted to make a difference. This is just a simple way of getting votes from people who believe it is crazy that there are some others out there that are poor that still don't vote to take money from those that are rich. I don't understand how anyone who complains about the federal government as much as you do wants them to have any more money...democrat, republican, or other...it doesn't matter...they have proven to be incompetent and the more they have the more damage they can do.

and Gimmie, since when does public opinion matter? I didn't know we should run on mob rule. There was a time when segregation was supported by the majority, when the Iraq war was supported by the majority of people, when George W Bush won re-election for christ's sake...I am not sure our measuring stick should be the majority of people want it.

[/quote]

cincybearcat

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

aerial wrote:

Who agrees with this? I read the comments and did not see one comment that agrees with this..

have you seen any poll other than a rasmussen report in the last 3 years? there is a statistically significant number of people that favor this in every major poll.

the only people who are against it is some of the rich people and the tea party, which is a cohort of people that vote against their own interests anyway so....

It's easy to vote to give up other people's $, I'm not surprised.

Lots of people vote against gay marriage too.

CH156378

this shit is getting really fucking old.

gimmesometruth27

from last september..

http://www.politicususa.com/polls-taxes-deficit.html

from december 2011

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162- ... lionaires/

from february 2012

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/14/us/po ... -jobs.html

from april 2012

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepoliti ... axes-poll/

from today...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1714/taxes.aspx

inmytree

Jason P wrote:

I guess it's official. This will be one of Obama's main rally calls going into the election.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/obama-let-bush-era-tax-cuts-wealthiest-expire-172849154.html

I look forward to seeing how much this helps getting a balanced budget approved.

:corn:

why do you look forward to "getting a balanced budget approved"....?

and this "class war-fair" meme is stupid...yeah, the poors are waging war against the wealthy....I wonder who's going to win the "war"....

Godfather.

for one year ?..you guys know I lean towards the republican side of things although I'm not a solid to the bone republican but I'm a little razzled about any tax issue that does not work evenly and fair for everyone..why punish the the people that have earned more money than us ? and why are tax's so high to begin with ? I know it wassn't my job to ballance the budget and I diden't write the checks that got us into this mess and I did not o.k. the stimuless that put a few trillion deeper into the hole and I don't think the people making $225,000 a year asked for it either....


Subject: Budget Lessons 1 and 2
Don't miss lesson #2...


Some of you will like this and some won’t…
Lesson # 1:

* U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
* Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
* New debt: $1,650,000,000,000
* National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
* Recent budget cuts: $38,500,000,000

Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:

* Annual family income: $21,700
* Money the family spent: $38,200
* New debt on the credit card: $16,500
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
* Total budget cuts: $385

Got It ??

OK. Now, Lesson # 2:
Another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:

Let's say you come home from work and find there’s been a sewer backup in your neighborhood and your house has sewage all the way up to your ceilings. What do you think you should do....

(A) raise the ceilings, or
(B) pump out the crap?

Your choice is coming Nov. 2012



Godfather.

know1

Above the poverty level, I do not think people should be taxed unfairly.

Also, I'm not in favor of giving more money to the government and that is the real issue here.

I don't understand the mindset of people who seem to want to punish other people by making them pay more taxes than they themselves pay, but I really don't understand the mentality of people wanting to give more money to the government.

know1

cincybearcat wrote:

It's easy to vote to give up other people's $, I'm not surprised.

Lots of people vote against gay marriage too.

Good point.

inmytree

"punished"...???

I love the rhetoric...oh those poor poor wealthy...always being picked on...I'm glad folks are standing up for them...

seriously...taxes are simply a cost of being a citizen...if you don't like it, as I've said before, don't pay them or funnel your money offshore...

millionaire paying more = terrible...

a family making 20 grand a year = lazy bastards sucking the teat of society, pay up chump....

Godfather.

just thouight I'd share this little bit of info with you guys, politics money and unions and the unions have more pull than most believe.

Godfather.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 50026.html

Jason P

inmytree wrote:

why do you look forward to "getting a balanced budget approved"....?

and this "class war-fair" meme is stupid...yeah, the poors are waging war against the wealthy....I wonder who's going to win the "war"....

I look forward to a balanced budget so we don't have to keep raising the debt ceiling each year, devaluing the dollar each year, raising taxes each year, and lowering our credit rating each year. Duh.

And I was playing on both phrases that both sides are using. I thought it was a little clever.

inmytree

Jason P wrote:

inmytree wrote:

why do you look forward to "getting a balanced budget approved"....?

and this "class war-fair" meme is stupid...yeah, the poors are waging war against the wealthy....I wonder who's going to win the "war"....

I look forward to a balanced budget so we don't have to keep raising the debt ceiling each year, devaluing the dollar each year, raising taxes each year, and lowering our credit rating each year. Duh.

And I was playing on both phrases that both sides are using. I thought it was a little clever.

too clever for me apparently...



now that I understand....I say "well played, sir"...

Jason P

Here is an example on how our leaders are not focusing on creating major change and instead try to confuse us:

Obama threatened to veto a full extension of the Bush tax cuts, saying in an interview with WWL-TV in New Orleans that a tax cut for the wealthiest two percent of Americans would cost $1 trillion over the next decade at a time when the nation needs to reduce the federal deficit.

http://news.yahoo.com/iowa-obama-pitch-tax-cuts-064957388.html

Uh, the deficit in 2010 alone was $1.2 trillion.
Uh, the deficit in 2011 alone was $1.56 trillion.
Uh, the deficit in 2012 is forecast to be $1.3 trillion.

Based on the average, in ten years we will be an additional $13.5 trillion in the hole ... but if the tax cuts are not extended on the rich, we will only be $12.5 trillion in the hole.

I don't think it matters who gets elected at this point. The deficit will continue to increase and the public will get distracted by smart politicians who know their trade and wave shiny objects to distract us from the raging tire fire directly behind them.