Obamacare has peeps tweeting about escape...to Canada

PJ_Soul

:fp:

I think these are actually real!

http://www.happyplace.com/16744/obamaca ... -to-canada

PS - NO idea why anyone would be against universal health care. I live with it, and it is fucking AWESOME. Plus, people don't go bankrupt just because they get cancer or need a transplant, and people don't die just because they're too poor to afford good medical treatment. How can people oppose that?!?! It's totally vexing.

gimmesometruth27

PJ_Soul wrote:

:fp:

I think these are actually real!

http://www.happyplace.com/16744/obamaca ... -to-canada

PS - NO idea why anyone would be against universal health care. I live with it, and it is fucking AWESOME. Plus, people don't go bankrupt just because they get cancer or need a transplant, and people don't die just because they're too poor to afford good medical treatment. How can people oppose that?!?! It's totally vexing.

quick! build a fence! the electrified kind!! immediately!!!

:fp:






on the upside, maybe rush will finally take his gravy-sweating self to costa rica...

EdsonNascimento

I agree that the whole escape to Canada is beyond funny.... I mean, umm... :?

But, the statements about folks going bankrupt, etc are grossly overstated. Yes, it happens. But, in general medical expenses are ONE component of finances that cause folks to go under. More frequently it is mortgages and other debt that causes bankruptcies. The average medical debt for folks that declare bankruptcy in the US is like $1,000.

As for not affording care - the fact is, EVERYONE in the US already has insurance. It's called indigent care. Yes, we need to do better (which Obamacare most definitely is not). But, again folks do not get turned away. Are there horror stories? Sure. Do we need to do better? Absolutely. But, we don't have cancer patients lying on the sides of the road waiting to die. That's just pure rhetoric.

And this is why the problem never gets solved. We focus on these fringe things that are blown out of proportion (though 1 of each is too many) instead of focusing on the real problem(s). They are symptoms of a bigger problem.

If someone who doesn't have insurance gets insurance, are they going to start seeing their doctor for well check ups? The answer is no. Because, quite frankly, they could be doing that now quite cheaply. There are plenty of clinics that give low cost (And sometimes free) well check ups that folks don't take advantage of. So, why would insurance suddenly change this?

And before these clinics are put down and the commentary of they aren't good care (Relatively speaking) - Many doctors in the US don't accept Medicaid (Which is where the real expansion of coverage is coming from in Obamacare) due to the low reimbursement. So, Obamacare is creating a great divide in quality of care.

Nobody is AGAINST Universal Health Care Coverage. Again, another great talking point. I'm against Obamacare, so I must be against Universal Health Care Coverage. That's pure silliness.

gimmesometruth27

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Nobody is AGAINST Universal Health Care Coverage. Again, another great talking point.

this is wrong. republicans have gone on record opposing universal single payer because it effects private insurers. they have opposed it from private insurers as well because if amounts to "government telling them how to do business"....obama knew he was never ever going to get universal single payer with the current congress so he settled for what he thought he could pass. fact is, republicans are too pro business/pro private insurer and are benefitting way too much politically to ever change a thing.

Bennyorr4

It just goes to show how much people don't know. Really??? move to Canada to get AWAY from socialized health care. Don't these retards know that we have socialized health care up here? Listen, there is way too much misinformation being generated by the republican party and the media and with that comes a lot of stupid people following stupid people down there. Believe me when I say, "Obamacare" or what ever they call it would be the best thing to happen to the US. There are more less fortunate people who require this service and as the saying goes "A country is judged by how they treat the less fortunate" (or something like that) And since I am outside looking in, I feel I see things with fresh eyes and what I see is a country in a deep denial of just how F@&KED they are. The two parties should be working together to solve problems, not fight about helping the country and the people in it. Socialism is not a bad thing unless you are part of the 1%. I'm sure these people are not in that group so if they hate it so much, then get rid of things like welfare, food stamps (which we don't have in Canada), and other social services like that and let their people starve to death and die at an early age, then how would they like the country they live in? The US USED to be a great country, now its a f'n cesspool. They have been getting away from the fundamental beliefs that the country was founded upon. It's not Obama that's the problem, it's the population of misinformed people that are one of the problem, the other is the American media. Please watch The Daily Show and you may see where I'm coming from. And if you refuse to, then you are also part of the problem.

EdsonNascimento

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Nobody is AGAINST Universal Health Care Coverage. Again, another great talking point.

this is wrong. republicans have gone on record opposing universal single payer because it effects private insurers. they have opposed it from private insurers as well because if amounts to "government telling them how to do business"....obama knew he was never ever going to get universal single payer with the current congress so he settled for what he thought he could pass. fact is, republicans are too pro business/pro private insurer and are benefitting way too much politically to ever change a thing.

Ahhhh!!! There is a difference between Universal Health Care Coverage (Which in fact already exists) and Universal SINGLE PAYER.

And if you don't think Obama is in the pockets of his favorite rich folks and business partners. Did you see the list of exceptions to his coverage rules? McDonald's is number one on the list...... I think that's a business. There are so many exceptions, this bill should have read which companies will have to actually adhere to it.....

EdsonNascimento

Bennyorr4 wrote:

It just goes to show how much people don't know. Really??? move to Canada to get AWAY from socialized health care. Don't these retards know that we have socialized health care up here? Listen, there is way too much misinformation being generated by the republican party and the media and with that comes a lot of stupid people following stupid people down there. Believe me when I say, "Obamacare" or what ever they call it would be the best thing to happen to the US. There are more less fortunate people who require this service and as the saying goes "A country is judged by how they treat the less fortunate" (or something like that) And since I am outside looking in, I feel I see things with fresh eyes and what I see is a country in a deep denial of just how F@&KED they are. The two parties should be working together to solve problems, not fight about helping the country and the people in it. Socialism is not a bad thing unless you are part of the 1%. I'm sure these people are not in that group so if they hate it so much, then get rid of things like welfare, food stamps (which we don't have in Canada), and other social services like that and let their people starve to death and die at an early age, then how would they like the country they live in? The US USED to be a great country, now its a f'n cesspool. They have been getting away from the fundamental beliefs that the country was founded upon. It's not Obama that's the problem, it's the population of misinformed people that are one of the problem, the other is the American media. Please watch The Daily Show and you may see where I'm coming from. And if you refuse to, then you are also part of the problem.

2 others of my favorite arguments:

1) I live in another country, so I know what's better for you (And I'm imparital ).
2) Anyone that disagrees with liberals is uninformed (The Daily Show is an impartial news source!!! ).

The US is so terrible that folks have stopped trying to get in. :?

Jeanwah

There's an awful lot of American idiots out there...

brianlux

Moving to Canada because of Obamacare? Don't forget to pack a toothbrush. :wave:

Cosmo

PJ_Soul wrote:

:fp:

I think these are actually real!

http://www.happyplace.com/16744/obamaca ... -to-canada

PS - NO idea why anyone would be against universal health care. I live with it, and it is fucking AWESOME. Plus, people don't go bankrupt just because they get cancer or need a transplant, and people don't die just because they're too poor to afford good medical treatment. How can people oppose that?!?! It's totally vexing.

...
Canada??? You'd think Mexico would be the place for those knuckleheads who would say that.
Why Mexico?
1. No National Health Care. You get to buy your own health care insurances, which is probably a good idea.
2. Guns. All the guns tyou want... and available from the U.S. ATF.
3. No Illegal Mexicans to worry about.

Go Beavers

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I agree that the whole escape to Canada is beyond funny.... I mean, umm... :?

But, the statements about folks going bankrupt, etc are grossly overstated. Yes, it happens. But, in general medical expenses are ONE component of finances that cause folks to go under. More frequently it is mortgages and other debt that causes bankruptcies. The average medical debt for folks that declare bankruptcy in the US is like $1,000.

As for not affording care - the fact is, EVERYONE in the US already has insurance. It's called indigent care. Yes, we need to do better (which Obamacare most definitely is not). But, again folks do not get turned away. Are there horror stories? Sure. Do we need to do better? Absolutely. But, we don't have cancer patients lying on the sides of the road waiting to die. That's just pure rhetoric.

And this is why the problem never gets solved. We focus on these fringe things that are blown out of proportion (though 1 of each is too many) instead of focusing on the real problem(s). They are symptoms of a bigger problem.

If someone who doesn't have insurance gets insurance, are they going to start seeing their doctor for well check ups? The answer is no. Because, quite frankly, they could be doing that now quite cheaply. There are plenty of clinics that give low cost (And sometimes free) well check ups that folks don't take advantage of. So, why would insurance suddenly change this?

And before these clinics are put down and the commentary of they aren't good care (Relatively speaking) - Many doctors in the US don't accept Medicaid (Which is where the real expansion of coverage is coming from in Obamacare) due to the low reimbursement. So, Obamacare is creating a great divide in quality of care.

Nobody is AGAINST Universal Health Care Coverage. Again, another great talking point. I'm against Obamacare, so I must be against Universal Health Care Coverage. That's pure silliness.

What's your angle on all of this? You disagree the most with changing the healthcare system out of anyone else who posts. What do you think the best way private healthcare companies can reduce costs and/or improve coverage?

ComeToTX

Bennyorr4 wrote:

It just goes to show how much people don't know. Really??? move to Canada to get AWAY from socialized health care. Don't these retards know that we have socialized health care up here? Listen, there is way too much misinformation being generated by the republican party and the media and with that comes a lot of stupid people following stupid people down there. Believe me when I say, "Obamacare" or what ever they call it would be the best thing to happen to the US. There are more less fortunate people who require this service and as the saying goes "A country is judged by how they treat the less fortunate" (or something like that) And since I am outside looking in, I feel I see things with fresh eyes and what I see is a country in a deep denial of just how F@&KED they are. The two parties should be working together to solve problems, not fight about helping the country and the people in it. Socialism is not a bad thing unless you are part of the 1%. I'm sure these people are not in that group so if they hate it so much, then get rid of things like welfare, food stamps (which we don't have in Canada), and other social services like that and let their people starve to death and die at an early age, then how would they like the country they live in? The US USED to be a great country, now its a f'n cesspool. They have been getting away from the fundamental beliefs that the country was founded upon. It's not Obama that's the problem, it's the population of misinformed people that are one of the problem, the other is the American media. Please watch The Daily Show and you may see where I'm coming from. And if you refuse to, then you are also part of the problem.

We're also a country that spread disease to the people who we stole our land from. We've always been selfish. It just seems more blatant now.

I'm with you though. It's embarrassing that we don't take care of our sick and our poor and we've stopped educating our young. Whatever the solution let's figure it out and stop fighting about it.

Also, the 3,000 healthcare lobbyists in DC aren't helping.

Jeanwah

Lobbying should be outlawed.

Bennyorr4

2) Anyone that disagrees with liberals is uninformed (The Daily Show is an impartial news source!!! ).


Exibit "A" you are part of the problem :roll:

The daily show is the only REAL news program in the states. :roll: :roll: :roll: And its SATIRE, What does that tell you???

PJ_Soul

This is what I know: It is INSANE AND EVIL to allow or support a system where private companies necessarily benefit monetarily by figuring out ways to deny health care claims. 'Nuff said.

Sick sick sick.

EdsonNascimento

PJ_Soul wrote:

This is what I know: It is INSANE AND EVIL to allow or support a system where private companies necessarily benefit monetarily by figuring out ways to deny health care claims. 'Nuff said.

Sick sick sick.

GoBeavers, I will respond when I have a bit more time, but I wanted to address this ignorant statement.

Please tell me how we can have a system with so much waste, high cost and relatively low outcomes and NOT need to get care better managed?

I love when folks espouse that companies are going around indescimenantly denying care. Such garbage.

There are horror stories within the US system just as there are in Canada (and other countries). Yet somehow, folks still come across the border to get one would assume better care. Logically none of that makes sense.

AlbertaGirl70_

Pro&Con,Good&Bads,USA vs. Canada......I'm a hard person to get an opinion out of on anything,so I'm not going to give one here,I just want to say...

I watched a doc the other day where a woman had the same type of breast cancer that I had a 28,she was a poor black woman from the inner city,and she was basically told if you don't have money you can't go to this hospital/doctor,and won't be able to get this kind of treatment(the one she needed) and you are probably going to die becasue of your economic situation...
Cut to me 15 years ago,I live in Canada,and money was never mentioned once concerning my treatment,I went to the best cancer hospital in Alberta,had the best oncologist in Western Canada,got the best treatment available at that time,and had every surgery I needed then,or since with out ever paying a single bill,and I'm alive today because of all of that I believe.
I lived every day through that thinking that there is now f**king way I'm going to die from cancer,I couldn't imagine the mind f**k on my head if I was told I was probably going to because I didn't have enough money to get the best shot at saving myself.

ComeToTX

AlbertaGirl70_ wrote:

Pro&Con,Good&Bads,USA vs. Canada......I'm a hard person to get an opinion out of on anything,so I'm not going to give one here,I just want to say...

I watched a doc the other day where a woman had the same type of breast cancer that I had a 28,she was a poor black woman from the inner city,and she was basically told if you don't have money you can't go to this hospital/doctor,and won't be able to get this kind of treatment(the one she needed) and you are probably going to die becasue of your economic situation...
Cut to me 15 years ago,I live in Canada,and money was never mentioned once concerning my treatment,I went to the best cancer hospital in Alberta,had the best oncologist in Western Canada,got the best treatment available at that time,and had every surgery I needed then,or since with out ever paying a single bill,and I'm alive today because of all of that I believe.
I lived every day through that thinking that there is now f**king way I'm going to die from cancer,I couldn't imagine the mind f**k on my head if I was told I was probably going to because I didn't have enough money to get the best shot at saving myself.

Hard to argue with that example.

It boils down to everyone should receive the same quality of care regardless of how much money they have. I'm not sure how people argue with this. We're not talking about the size of a house we're talking about the health of our citizens.

fife

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I agree that the whole escape to Canada is beyond funny.... I mean, umm... :?

But, the statements about folks going bankrupt, etc are grossly overstated. Yes, it happens. But, in general medical expenses are ONE component of finances that cause folks to go under. More frequently it is mortgages and other debt that causes bankruptcies. The average medical debt for folks that declare bankruptcy in the US is like $1,000.

As for not affording care - the fact is, EVERYONE in the US already has insurance. It's called indigent care. Yes, we need to do better (which Obamacare most definitely is not). But, again folks do not get turned away. Are there horror stories? Sure. Do we need to do better? Absolutely. But, we don't have cancer patients lying on the sides of the road waiting to die. That's just pure rhetoric.

And this is why the problem never gets solved. We focus on these fringe things that are blown out of proportion (though 1 of each is too many) instead of focusing on the real problem(s). They are symptoms of a bigger problem.

If someone who doesn't have insurance gets insurance, are they going to start seeing their doctor for well check ups? The answer is no. Because, quite frankly, they could be doing that now quite cheaply. There are plenty of clinics that give low cost (And sometimes free) well check ups that folks don't take advantage of. So, why would insurance suddenly change this?

And before these clinics are put down and the commentary of they aren't good care (Relatively speaking) - Many doctors in the US don't accept Medicaid (Which is where the real expansion of coverage is coming from in Obamacare) due to the low reimbursement. So, Obamacare is creating a great divide in quality of care.

Nobody is AGAINST Universal Health Care Coverage. Again, another great talking point. I'm against Obamacare, so I must be against Universal Health Care Coverage. That's pure silliness.

just to say about that stat that you wrote about the ave. debt for medical treatment.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnf ... 666715.htm

dignin

EdsonNascimento wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

This is what I know: It is INSANE AND EVIL to allow or support a system where private companies necessarily benefit monetarily by figuring out ways to deny health care claims. 'Nuff said.

Sick sick sick.

GoBeavers, I will respond when I have a bit more time, but I wanted to address this ignorant statement.

Please tell me how we can have a system with so much waste, high cost and relatively low outcomes and NOT need to get care better managed?

I love when folks espouse that companies are going around indescimenantly denying care. Such garbage.

There are horror stories within the US system just as there are in Canada (and other countries). Yet somehow, folks still come across the border to get one would assume better care. Logically none of that makes sense.

So what you are saying is that US healthcare is non profit? Also, you assume wrong, Canadians crossing the border for treatment go mostly for faster treatment, not better treatment.

PJ_Soul

AlbertaGirl70_ wrote:

Pro&Con,Good&Bads,USA vs. Canada......I'm a hard person to get an opinion out of on anything,so I'm not going to give one here,I just want to say...

I watched a doc the other day where a woman had the same type of breast cancer that I had a 28,she was a poor black woman from the inner city,and she was basically told if you don't have money you can't go to this hospital/doctor,and won't be able to get this kind of treatment(the one she needed) and you are probably going to die becasue of your economic situation...
Cut to me 15 years ago,I live in Canada,and money was never mentioned once concerning my treatment,I went to the best cancer hospital in Alberta,had the best oncologist in Western Canada,got the best treatment available at that time,and had every surgery I needed then,or since with out ever paying a single bill,and I'm alive today because of all of that I believe.
I lived every day through that thinking that there is now f**king way I'm going to die from cancer,I couldn't imagine the mind f**k on my head if I was told I was probably going to because I didn't have enough money to get the best shot at saving myself.

Exactly.
Canada's system may have some longer waiting lists for certain procedures (not that I've ever seen it. In the past 2 years, I had to get a bone scan, ultrasound, and a CT, and I never waited longer than 6 days), but NO ONE is ever denied life saving care because they can't afford it. IMO, having that EVER happen to anyone means there is something seriously disgusting and perverse about a health care system. Period. Frankly, I think when someone suggests that a system where health care is a profit business where poor people can't get the care they need while people with money buy it either has their head buried in the sand or just doesn't give a shit that people without money can't always get the health care they need to save their lives.... But I'd be interested to see how they would feel once they are the ones who get seriously ill and are suddenly told that they insurance company has figured a way to ensure that it will cost them $80,000 to not die. :evil: People would rather pay less tax than live with a system like that? Not me.
Glad you made it AlbertaGirl70. :thumbup: And I'm glad you didn't make yourself and your whole family go broke in the process.