Obama’s war on coal hits your electric bill

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Comments

  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    jb306534 wrote:
    Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
    We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.

    ;):clap::clap:


    Godfather.
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    pandora wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    People don't change behaviors until they are forced to. I actually think the only way people will make changes is if the old options aren't available anymore or are at least made less available. Shitty but true.
    Meanwhile, there are lots of ways to save electricity. I.e. use it less, power smart home plans, etc.
    We are saving electricity but the bill is still enormous!
    They can not and should not raise the rates,
    people are defaulting on their bills causing the rates to go up even higher.

    Keep the coal until another viable alternative source is in place. This is common sense.
    It is very easy for people to make light of situations when they do not experience it themselves.
    Like not being able to pay a bill or when people are losing their jobs.

    Feel for the people involved. They are our most valuable commodity. People.
    I feel deeply for the people involved...all of us. I have great concern over our health and environment. I have less concern over money. That is how it should be, right?
    Not when people are losing their homes ...

    could it be you are employed with a roof and making your bills?
    feeding your children, not on govt aid?

    I find many people unconcerned with money
    have few money problems from the lack of it.
    It is not a dire situation for them and their loved ones.

    The govt aid in this country is at 940 billion dollars that does not include
    SS or Medicare programs. It is the fastest growing component of govt spending.
    An expected 10 trillion to be spent in the next decade. It is a big
    problem for our country and the working citizens.

    The old saying if you got your health you got everything isn't so true
    when you have no home for your children, no job and no food for the table.
    It is priorities. You face this struggle or you face being on aid and still struggling.
    And when will the aid run out and what will the people do then?

    I feel many parents would even give their life, bargain with the devil, to get
    back their self respect and be providers and homeowners again.
    This really sucks for so many.

    The taxation, the sky rocketing utility bills must stop
    so people can get back on their feet.

    That means coal stays in place until another source can provide for the masses
    one that they can afford. Any bill that comes up that means more jobs taken from the
    working man should not be considered. Any bill that comes up raising
    taxation and costs on the working man should not be considered.

    Let the private sector take on some of these costs, if they love America, if they love our
    world and appreciate the millions and billions they make a year, get them deep pockets
    out and save it! Otherwise will we all go down together? So be it.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Cosmo wrote:
    To the Coal Burning Supporters:
    How do you feel about China, burning coal to meet their energy demands?

    and what happens if/when they all decide to drive cars instead of riding bicycles??
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • inmytreeinmytree Posts: 4,741
    pandora wrote:
    Not when people are losing their homes ...

    could it be you are employed with a roof and making your bills?
    feeding your children, not on govt aid?

    I find many people unconcerned with money
    have few money problems from the lack of it.
    It is not a dire situation for them and their loved ones.

    The govt aid in this country is at 940 billion dollars that does not include
    SS or Medicare programs. It is the fastest growing component of govt spending.
    An expected 10 trillion to be spent in the next decade. It is a big
    problem for our country and the working citizens.

    The old saying if you got your health you got everything isn't so true
    when you have no home for your children, no job and no food for the table.
    It is priorities. You face this struggle or you face being on aid and still struggling.
    And when will the aid run out and what will the people do then?

    I feel many parents would even give their life, bargain with the devil, to get
    back their self respect and be providers and homeowners again.
    This really sucks for so many.

    The taxation, the sky rocketing utility bills must stop
    so people can get back on their feet.

    That means coal stays in place until another source can provide for the masses
    one that they can afford. Any bill that comes up that means more jobs taken from the
    working man should not be considered. Any bill that comes up raising
    taxation and costs on the working man should not be considered.

    Let the private sector take on some of these costs, if they love America, if they love our
    world and appreciate the millions and billions they make a year, get them deep pockets
    out and save it! Otherwise will we all go down together? So be it.


    I find it hard to believe that someone would lose their home based solely on their electric bill...clearly other issues are in play....
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    Cosmo wrote:
    To the Coal Burning Supporters:
    How do you feel about China, burning coal to meet their energy demands?

    and what happens if/when they all decide to drive cars instead of riding bicycles??
    They are in the middle of an industrial revolution so they may choose that option in the near future.

    Although from first-hand accounts of how everyone drives over there, more cars could lead to better population control.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Jason P wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    To the Coal Burning Supporters:
    How do you feel about China, burning coal to meet their energy demands?

    and what happens if/when they all decide to drive cars instead of riding bicycles??
    They are in the middle of an industrial revolution so they may choose that option in the near future.

    Although from first-hand accounts of how everyone drives over there, more cars could lead to better population control.


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pezdwLmU2H4
    hear my name
    take a good look
    this could be the day
    hold my hand
    lie beside me
    i just need to say
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
    jb306534 wrote:
    Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.

    Can you show us some information/evidence that this is true?
    jb306534 wrote:
    We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.

    I think a good argument can be made that we may not be able to destroy the planet but the evidence is overwhelming that we have changed it in major ways (See Bill McKibbens book, Eaarth). But how do explain anthropogenic global warming as "egotistical"? Or the extreme increased rate of extinction starting with the industrial age? Or melting of polar caps?
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    jb306534 wrote:
    We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.
    ...
    Point taken.
    Because we are mere specks... we should never complain about us or or kids breathing in that shit, right?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    Godfather. wrote:
    jb306534 wrote:
    Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
    We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.

    ;):clap::clap:


    Godfather.

    it makes sense to me that you'd support & clap at this comment, godfather.
    enjoy your day, the both of you.


    chadwick
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    chadwick wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    jb306534 wrote:
    Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
    We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.

    ;):clap::clap:


    Godfather.

    it makes sense to me that you'd support & clap at this comment, godfather.
    enjoy your day, the both of you.


    chadwick


    I'm still on the fence over this stuff I see stuff and read things that counter each other, there are scintest on both sides of the argument, looking from the ground up the world may not seem so big but...looking from the sky down it's friggin huge and it just makes me wonder so as jb said we are just a speck on the earth in the big picture.

    Godfather.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    Godfather. wrote:

    I'm still on the fence over this stuff I see stuff and read things that counter each other, there are scintest on both sides of the argument, looking from the ground up the world may not seem so big but...looking from the sky down it's friggin huge and it just makes me wonder so as jb said we are just a speck on the earth in the big picture.

    Godfather.
    You can be on the fence on global warming, but you cannot deny the pollution problem associated with burning coal.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • rollingsrollings unknown Posts: 7,125
    jb306534 wrote:
    ...We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.
    dopey.jpg
  • rollingsrollings unknown Posts: 7,125
    Godfather. wrote:
    I'm still on the fence over this stuff I see stuff and read things that counter each other, there are scintest on both sides of the argument, looking from the ground up the world may not seem so big but...looking from the sky down it's friggin huge and it just makes me wonder so as jb said we are just a speck on the earth in the big picture.

    Godfather.

    you're absolutley right. our actions will NOT obliviate the planet right out of the solar system. All we could possibly do is oblivate all life forms thereon.

    and yes I do realize that obliviate isn't the correct word, but damnit it sounds good.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    rollings wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    I'm still on the fence over this stuff I see stuff and read things that counter each other, there are scintest on both sides of the argument, looking from the ground up the world may not seem so big but...looking from the sky down it's friggin huge and it just makes me wonder so as jb said we are just a speck on the earth in the big picture.

    Godfather.

    you're absolutley right. our actions will NOT obliviate the planet right out of the solar system. All we could possibly do is oblivate all life forms thereon.

    and yes I do realize that obliviate isn't the correct word, but damnit it sounds good.

    :lol: it sounds awesome !

    Godfather.
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    jb306534 wrote:
    Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
    We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.


    You have no idea how right you are. The earth climate is cyclical. The burning of fossil fuels may have sped up the cycle by a year compared to the 200,000 year cycle we are in.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    jb306534 wrote:
    Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
    We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.


    You have no idea how right you are. The earth climate is cyclical. The burning of fossil fuels may have sped up the cycle by a year compared to the 200,000 year cycle we are in.
    Even if that were true... what about the POLLUTION? You know, dirty earth, dirty air, dirty water? You know people in China are getting cancer simply from breathing the air now, right? And that pollution is killing off animals and plants and poisoning the water and soil, hence poisoning the food chain?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
    jb306534 wrote:
    Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
    We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.


    You have no idea how right you are. The earth climate is cyclical. The burning of fossil fuels may have sped up the cycle by a year compared to the 200,000 year cycle we are in.

    We humans have done a huge amount to rapidly affect climate change outside the normal climate cycles (which certainly do exist). To find a great deal of evidence to support this statement I would encourage you to spend some time reading any of the many entries by scientists who have contributes to this site:

    http://www.realclimate.org/

    This is a science based, non partisan site full of articles written by top researchers in the field of climate science who have no agenda but to learn and disseminate well researched information regarding climate change.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    jb306534 wrote:
    Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
    We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.


    You have no idea how right you are. The earth climate is cyclical. The burning of fossil fuels may have sped up the cycle by a year compared to the 200,000 year cycle we are in.

    Well go on I have noted earlier that if you don't think that you have any effect on the world around you do one thing to test your theory
    Get a hose attach it to your muffler and put the other end in the cab of your car

    IF IT DOES NOTHING YOUR RIGHT
    IF YOU DIE
    IM AND THE SIENTIFIC COMMUNITY ARE RIGHT AND YOU AND ALL OF US ARE HAVING AN EFFECT
    But you won't answer this post,
    Go argue some semantics


    This planet has set up a filter to protect our atmosphere. Trees and plant life
    We humanity has stripped away thousands of square km of this filter. At the same time more and more of us use power and fuels that pollute our atmosphere
    And you think you have no effect
    I just think your quite stupid for that line of thought.
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
    This planet has set up a filter to protect our atmosphere. Trees and plant life
    We humanity has stripped away thousands of square km of this filter. At the same time more and more of us use power and fuels that pollute our atmosphere

    Thank you for pointing this out, Once Devided. Not so long ago we heard a lot about disappearing rainforests but for some reason it's not mentioned as often today and yet still remains a critical situation. Here are some rainforest facts published by The Nature Conservancy last October. Surely the facts I enlarged in large print are having a big an affect on our world:

    http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/ur ... -facts.xml

    Facts about Rainforests

    Do you know how many tropical rainforest plants have been identified as having anti-cancer properties? Or how many continents around the world contain rainforests? And just how quickly are the world's rainforests disappearing?

    Find out the answers to these questions and more as you check out these interesting rainforest facts! And when you think that you know all there is to know about the rainforest, test your knowledge with our rainforest quiz.
    Facts about the Global Coverage of Rainforests

    Covering less than 2 percent of the Earth's total surface area, the world's rainforests are home to 50 percent of the Earth's plants and animals.
    Rainforests can be found all over the world from as far north as Alaska and Canada to Latin America, Asia and Africa.
    Rainforests are found on every continent across the Earth, except Antarctica.
    There are two major types of rainforest: temperate rainforests and tropical rainforests.
    The largest temperate rainforests are found on North America's Pacific Coast and stretch from Northern California up into Canada.
    Temperate rainforests used to exist on almost every continent in the world, but today only 50 percent — 75 million acres — of these forests remain worldwide.

    Facts about the Rainforest as Part of our Global Environment and Well-being

    Rainforests act as the world's thermostat by regulating temperatures and weather patterns.
    One-fifth of the world's fresh water is found in the Amazon Basin.
    Rainforests are critical in maintaining the Earth's limited supply of drinking and fresh water.

    Facts about the Abundant Life and Important Resources that Rainforests Share with Us

    A typical four-square-mile patch of rainforest contains as many as 1,500 flowering plants, 750 species of trees, 400 species of birds and 150 species of butterflies.
    Rainforests provide many important products for people: timber, coffee, cocoa and many medicinal products, including those used in the treatment of cancer.
    Seventy percent of the plants identified by the U.S. National Cancer Institute as useful in the treatment of cancer are found only in rainforests.
    More than 2,000 tropical forest plants have been identified by scientists as having anti-cancer properties.
    Less than one percent of the tropical rainforest species have been analyzed for their medicinal value.

    Facts about the Threats to Rainforests, Indigenous People and Species

    Rainforests are threatened by unsustainable agricultural, ranching, mining and logging practices.
    Before 1500 A.D., there were approximately 6 million indigenous people living in the Brazilian Amazon. But as the forests disappeared, so too did the people. In the early 1900s, there were less than 250,000 indigenous people living in the Amazon.
    Originally, 6 million square miles of tropical rainforest existed worldwide. But as a result of deforestation, only 2.6 million square miles remain.
    At the current rate of tropical forest loss, 5–10 percent of tropical rainforest species will be lost per decade.
    Nearly 90 percent of the 1.2 billion people living in extreme poverty worldwide depend on forests for their livelihoods.
    Fifty-seven percent of the world's forests, including most tropical forests, are located in developing countries.
    Every second, a slice of rainforest the size of a football field is mowed down. That's 86,400 football fields of rainforest per day, or over 31 million football fields of rainforest each year.
    More than 56,000 square miles of natural forest are lost each year.


    Want to Test Your Rainforest Knowledge?

    Now that you've learned all about the rainforest, see if you can answer the questions in our rainforest quiz.
    October 06, 2011
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    Thanks Brian
    Yep the seesaw that is this planet
    On one side we have the filter everyday being stripped effecting the amount of poisons that can be removed through the filter
    On the other side of the seesaw is pollution, getting bigger every day and with that filter being reduced the load just gets heavier
    I won't argue about global warming. I cannot even begin to understand a lot of the science ,
    But I have eyes that see, I see the effects pollution has around me. My community, state and country
    To think we are not have an effect is nothing but stupid
    Yes that's right I. Beleive anyone that is against us doing something to help our planet balance the load we place upon it is plain stupid
    Egotistical stupid, selfish morons

    Throw a lolly wrapper in the corner, sure that's not a big impact
    Get 22 millionto throw the same thing , is it the same impact as just 1
    Get 7 billion people still no effect huh
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    jb306534 wrote:
    Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
    We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.


    You have no idea how right you are. The earth climate is cyclical. The burning of fossil fuels may have sped up the cycle by a year compared to the 200,000 year cycle we are in.
    Even if that were true... what about the POLLUTION? You know, dirty earth, dirty air, dirty water? You know people in China are getting cancer simply from breathing the air now, right? And that pollution is killing off animals and plants and poisoning the water and soil, hence poisoning the food chain?


    The Chinese are getting sick because they follow zero carbon emission regulation. That's 0, zilch, none. It's been shown that they completely shut the scrubbers off during night shifts.
    Most American plants follow strict carbon emission regulation. And the one that don't (or can't) are shutting down or will be shutting down in 2013.

    By no means is it stupid or dumb to disagree with your point. The earths climate IS CYCLICAL. Science does tell us that. Remember learning about the north American ice age?
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    The Chinese are getting sick because they follow zero carbon emission regulation. That's 0, zilch, none. It's been shown that they completely shut the scrubbers off during night shifts.
    Most American plants follow strict carbon emission regulation. And the one that don't (or can't) are shutting down or will be shutting down in 2013.

    By no means is it stupid or dumb to disagree with your point. The earths climate IS CYCLICAL. Science does tell us that. Remember learning about the north American ice age?
    ...
    Wait... so, because climate change is cyclical... the chinese can pollute all they want... because pollution has no effect on climate change?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,426
    Cosmo wrote:
    The Chinese are getting sick because they follow zero carbon emission regulation. That's 0, zilch, none. It's been shown that they completely shut the scrubbers off during night shifts.
    Most American plants follow strict carbon emission regulation. And the one that don't (or can't) are shutting down or will be shutting down in 2013.

    By no means is it stupid or dumb to disagree with your point. The earths climate IS CYCLICAL. Science does tell us that. Remember learning about the north American ice age?
    ...
    Wait... so, because climate change is cyclical... the chinese can pollute all they want... because pollution has no effect on climate change?

    Right Cosmo!

    Or that it makes sense to rapidly accelerate climate change as we have? To what end? Eliminate our species more quickly? And what about the other many species we are driving off at an accelerated rate? Despite what George Carlin said (and I do get that bit) I can't go along with that kind of reckless, short-sighted thinking. (And that's a generic statement aimed at no one in particular.)
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    brianlux wrote:
    Right Cosmo!

    Or that it makes sense to rapidly accelerate climate change as we have? To what end? Eliminate our species more quickly? And what about the other many species we are driving off at an accelerated rate? Despite what George Carlin said (and I do get that bit) I can't go along with that kind of reckless, short-sighted thinking. (And that's a generic statement aimed at no one in particular.)
    ...
    Exactly. I also believe we have to do a whole lot of shit to blow up the planet, as George Carlin said...
    BUT, we STILL have to breathe the fucking air and drink the damn water, right?
    If we want to do as we please, and burn that shit, here in America... who the Hell are we to tell the Chinese what to do in China?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    Big meeting today at my work
    We make mining equipment. Soft and hard rock. All types . Coal,iron ores . Gold etc
    A major global player.
    We talked today about forecasts
    Talked about two things mostly

    Our product line order forecasts are growing massively due to the easy stuff being gone. To find the resource the miners need to go deeper and into less hospital places underground to get at it, using more and more of our gear and the environment down there wearing out the equipment
    The other part was the growth in helping reduce emissions in the removal of the resource, it's freight and the actual use of product . Getting into carbon capture
    Looking at leaving coal at right time as governments around the world move to eradicate it

    So big massively profitable companies are looking at the future and a non coal world in it.
    It's a fact.

    We cannot walk away from the damageit has made. But because it's not a pile of rubbish that we can see in front of us we don't beleive it.
    Maybe as something to show how tangible it is a millionaire might buy some land and start stacking containers to show the load of carbon we have put into the air. If people actuall see it they may understand
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • jb306534jb306534 Posts: 19
    We are just arguing over which deck chairs get rearranged on the titanic...whatever is going to happen to the world is going to happen...stop trying to find a purpose to life by "saving the planet"
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Cosmo wrote:
    The Chinese are getting sick because they follow zero carbon emission regulation. That's 0, zilch, none. It's been shown that they completely shut the scrubbers off during night shifts.
    Most American plants follow strict carbon emission regulation. And the one that don't (or can't) are shutting down or will be shutting down in 2013.

    By no means is it stupid or dumb to disagree with your point. The earths climate IS CYCLICAL. Science does tell us that. Remember learning about the north American ice age?
    ...
    Wait... so, because climate change is cyclical... the chinese can pollute all they want... because pollution has no effect on climate change?

    Absolutely not. But not as much as everyone seems to think. I have no problem reducing pollution. I do have a problem with government policy trying to destroy my way of living with no viable alternative even remotely close to being established on the basis of something al gore made millions from.
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