...We are introducing a big carbon tax in Australia as well
Great news for future generations that we finally are taking some responsibility in our actions
yeah!!! i cant wait to pay more for my electicity bill cause the company is gonna be passing on their tax to me. australia has all the sunshine in the world and yet do we utilise it?? nope. we continue to burn fossil fuels while the coal industry and the cons scream that the governemnt is killing the industry and the families who work in the undustry. yet i watch as our govts for example still allow the raising of inefficient houses(and in the case of sydney, the seemingly never ending expansion of the suburban sprawl with nothing in place to cut down on the reliance of cars) cause theyre also helping prop up the building industry. id have more respect for our govt if they implemented other initiatives alongside the carbon tax.
hear my name
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I'll lose my house if this electric bill goes any higher!
I agree get the alternative in place first! gosh darn it! :fp:
they must think we are all made out of money :evil:
calm down, pandora. i highly doubt you're going anywhere soon. hell, move into your printing, ink & paper business if ya gotta. turn your a/c up, people us more fans to circulate air throughout the larger scaled homes, (not that yours is large, just sayin), wear less clothes and swim in the pool when hot, beings it's y'all pool you may even swim bunk ass naked if you wish. these are helpful tip in decreasing a electrical bill. turn out the night-lights, and people do not need to participate in 24x7 welding out back in the machine shed and a single household only needs 1 refrigerator. tanning beds are known to increase an electric bill by as much as 40007%
that is quite a jump from 202% vs' using power like there is no tomorrow.
do not get me started on the utility bills a pack of dogs use. some dogs are known to crank the a/c down to friged levels. this will not be tolerated, ever.
If you saw my bill you wouldn't be calm either
We are moving our biz to a new commerical leased space and no we can't live there,
as it is not residential, it's in the lease, our current space as well.
Pools are very expensive on one's electric bill :? part of the problem.
Huge house = huge electric bill, why ours is on the market.
And yes they think we are all made of money and yes get an alternative plan in place before and stop raising the electric bills!. :fp:
I swear they are systematically reducing home ownership any way they can.
Skyrocketing utility bills and property taxes ( ours went up by 36% ! ) a great way to do it.
ontario has pledged to close all coal fire plants ... not sure target date but we are almost there ... no one was complaining when that decision was made nor is anyone complaining now ...
0
81
Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
so is there an answer ? what is in place to save these familys ?
is there a renewable energy sorce in place ?.....or did some dumbass just pull the plug on all these peoples lives with no respect to their livelyhoods and familys.....
Godfather.
This isn't directed at you Godfather, but your post is a perfect example of the the problems with this political climate we have created:
Question #1 - "What's in place to save these families?": Not sure... and I feel bad for anyone losing their job. But on the flipside, people on the right were so up in arms about the auto bailouts, and spending that money helped the families. How many thousands of families would have been without jobs if not for the bailouts? We selectively make emotional arguments to support things that we agree with, and ignore than when they are things we disagree with.
Question #2 - "Is there a renewable energy source in place?": Not really... nothing on the scale we need. Buuuuutttt... when the republicans and oil/coal lobbyist fight tooth and nail against any large scale effort to financially support alternative energies, it's pretty funny when they can conveniently use the excuse of "we need to produce/use more oil and coal, because there is nothing else we can use". It reminds me of the "too big to fail" excuse the banking industry used, after years of fighting any sorts of regulations that would prevent them from getting so big in the first place.
My whole life
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
so is there an answer ? what is in place to save these familys ?
is there a renewable energy sorce in place ?.....or did some dumbass just pull the plug on all these peoples lives with no respect to their livelyhoods and familys.....
Godfather.
This isn't directed at you Godfather, but your post is a perfect example of the the problems with this political climate we have created:
Question #1 - "What's in place to save these families?": Not sure... and I feel bad for anyone losing their job. But on the flipside, people on the right were so up in arms about the auto bailouts, and spending that money helped the families. How many thousands of families would have been without jobs if not for the bailouts? We selectively make emotional arguments to support things that we agree with, and ignore than when they are things we disagree with.
Question #2 - "Is there a renewable energy source in place?": Not really... nothing on the scale we need. Buuuuutttt... when the republicans and oil/coal lobbyist fight tooth and nail against any large scale effort to financially support alternative energies, it's pretty funny when they can conveniently use the excuse of "we need to produce/use more oil and coal, because there is nothing else we can use". It reminds me of the "too big to fail" excuse the banking industry used, after years of fighting any sorts of regulations that would prevent them from getting so big in the first place.
wow a great reply for sure thanks ! your post got me thinking/wondering,the working man has been used for excusses and as a scap-goat by politions on all sides, it dosen't seem to mater if it's coal or renewable energy
in the end because the working man will pay the price either way with no real say in the matter.
I'll lose my house if this electric bill goes any higher!
I agree get the alternative in place first! gosh darn it! :fp:
they must think we are all made out of money :evil:
People don't change behaviors until they are forced to. I actually think the only way people will make changes is if the old options aren't available anymore or are at least made less available. Shitty but true.
Meanwhile, there are lots of ways to save electricity. I.e. use it less, power smart home plans, etc.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
ontario has pledged to close all coal fire plants ... not sure target date but we are almost there ... no one was complaining when that decision was made nor is anyone complaining now ...
ontario has pledged to close all coal fire plants ... not sure target date but we are almost there ... no one was complaining when that decision was made nor is anyone complaining now ...
Old article. Haven't found anything up to date that wasn't on the govt site yet. Do they have data on jobs, health care costs, etc from this move yet?
not sure ... thing with smog is that it travels ... most of the smog we get here in southern ontario comes from northern ohio and the manufacturing and coal plants there ... with manufacturing gone the way of the dodo bird - we are getting less smog in general ...
the reality with this stuff ... is that burning coal is bad in many ways ... why do you think trains stop using it or furnaces or anything else that used to use coal ... not only does it contribute to global warming but the pollutants related to coal is brutal ... and is largely responsible for respiratory related illnesses ...
Old article. Haven't found anything up to date that wasn't on the govt site yet. Do they have data on jobs, health care costs, etc from this move yet?
not sure ... thing with smog is that it travels ... most of the smog we get here in southern ontario comes from northern ohio and the manufacturing and coal plants there ... with manufacturing gone the way of the dodo bird - we are getting less smog in general ...
the reality with this stuff ... is that burning coal is bad in many ways ... why do you think trains stop using it or furnaces or anything else that used to use coal ... not only does it contribute to global warming but the pollutants related to coal is brutal ... and is largely responsible for respiratory related illnesses ...
Yeah I know. I was just trying to find out more info on it. I know their are problems with burning coal. I also know that you have to have an alternative in place as well as a plan for jobs. I didn't know anything about this until this thread so I was just trying to find out some info and figured you'd be pretty up to speed, even if one-sided.
This isn't directed at you Godfather, but your post is a perfect example of the the problems with this political climate we have created:
Question #1 - "What's in place to save these families?": Not sure... and I feel bad for anyone losing their job. But on the flipside, people on the right were so up in arms about the auto bailouts, and spending that money helped the families. How many thousands of families would have been without jobs if not for the bailouts? We selectively make emotional arguments to support things that we agree with, and ignore than when they are things we disagree with.
Question #2 - "Is there a renewable energy source in place?": Not really... nothing on the scale we need. Buuuuutttt... when the republicans and oil/coal lobbyist fight tooth and nail against any large scale effort to financially support alternative energies, it's pretty funny when they can conveniently use the excuse of "we need to produce/use more oil and coal, because there is nothing else we can use". It reminds me of the "too big to fail" excuse the banking industry used, after years of fighting any sorts of regulations that would prevent them from getting so big in the first place.
wow a great reply for sure thanks ! your post got me thinking/wondering,the working man has been used for excusses and as a scap-goat by politions on all sides, it dosen't seem to mater if it's coal or renewable energy
in the end because the working man will pay the price either way with no real say in the matter.
Godfather.
Really? It's kinda a different topic to use tax payers money to fund an failing industry versus shutting down workplaces. Not really comparable at all. Personally, I didn't know if the bailouts were a good idea at the time nor now, but this is comparing apples to oranges. It''s one thing to have an industry close down because they don't make $ and nobody is buying their products, it's entirely another to shut them down despite people wanting their products. I understand why they are doing it, but it's a terrible comparison.
As for the "too big to fail", just another weird analogy. A better anaolgy would have been Field of Dreams, "if we shut it down, alternative energy will come!!!". I agree that it's an excuse to only use coal/oil and and not figure out alternative means, but to just stop without a replacement is a bit reckless.
Yeah I know. I was just trying to find out more info on it. I know their are problems with burning coal. I also know that you have to have an alternative in place as well as a plan for jobs. I didn't know anything about this until this thread so I was just trying to find out some info and figured you'd be pretty up to speed, even if one-sided.
with some conservation strategies and a decline in the manufacturing sector - we've been using less and less energy here ... i suspect that number will spike this summer as it's projected to be hot and dry ... :( ... neighbour's AC is already on ... not even june yet ...
Really? It's kinda a different topic to use tax payers money to fund an failing industry versus shutting down workplaces. Not really comparable at all. Personally, I didn't know if the bailouts were a good idea at the time nor now, but this is comparing apples to oranges. It''s one thing to have an industry close down because they don't make $ and nobody is buying their products, it's entirely another to shut them down despite people wanting their products. I understand why they are doing it, but it's a terrible comparison.
As for the "too big to fail", just another weird analogy. A better anaolgy would have been Field of Dreams, "if we shut it down, alternative energy will come!!!". I agree that it's an excuse to only use coal/oil and and not figure out alternative means, but to just stop without a replacement is a bit reckless.
things don't work in isolation ... an industry failing isn't necessarily always just the fault of the industry ... the game is fixed in america ... the only reason oil and coal succeed is because the game is rigged in their favour ...
Really? It's kinda a different topic to use tax payers money to fund an failing industry versus shutting down workplaces. Not really comparable at all. Personally, I didn't know if the bailouts were a good idea at the time nor now, but this is comparing apples to oranges. It''s one thing to have an industry close down because they don't make $ and nobody is buying their products, it's entirely another to shut them down despite people wanting their products. I understand why they are doing it, but it's a terrible comparison.
As for the "too big to fail", just another weird analogy. A better anaolgy would have been Field of Dreams, "if we shut it down, alternative energy will come!!!". I agree that it's an excuse to only use coal/oil and and not figure out alternative means, but to just stop without a replacement is a bit reckless.
things don't work in isolation ... an industry failing isn't necessarily always just the fault of the industry ... the game is fixed in america ... the only reason oil and coal succeed is because the game is rigged in their favour ...
And the only reason it's failing in Ontario is because the game is rigged against them. You just happen to like the rigging going on there.
Really? It's kinda a different topic to use tax payers money to fund an failing industry versus shutting down workplaces. Not really comparable at all. Personally, I didn't know if the bailouts were a good idea at the time nor now, but this is comparing apples to oranges. It''s one thing to have an industry close down because they don't make $ and nobody is buying their products, it's entirely another to shut them down despite people wanting their products. I understand why they are doing it, but it's a terrible comparison.
As for the "too big to fail", just another weird analogy. A better anaolgy would have been Field of Dreams, "if we shut it down, alternative energy will come!!!". I agree that it's an excuse to only use coal/oil and and not figure out alternative means, but to just stop without a replacement is a bit reckless.
things don't work in isolation ... an industry failing isn't necessarily always just the fault of the industry ... the game is fixed in america ... the only reason oil and coal succeed is because the game is rigged in their favour ...
And the only reason it's failing in Ontario is because the game is rigged against them. You just happen to like the rigging going on there.
... It's not the same. Coal pollutes and we need to stop using it.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'll lose my house if this electric bill goes any higher!
I agree get the alternative in place first! gosh darn it! :fp:
they must think we are all made out of money :evil:
People don't change behaviors until they are forced to. I actually think the only way people will make changes is if the old options aren't available anymore or are at least made less available. Shitty but true.
Meanwhile, there are lots of ways to save electricity. I.e. use it less, power smart home plans, etc.
We are saving electricity but the bill is still enormous!
They can not and should not raise the rates,
people are defaulting on their bills causing the rates to go up even higher.
Keep the coal until another viable alternative source is in place. This is common sense.
It is very easy for people to make light of situations when they do not experience it themselves.
Like not being able to pay a bill or when people are losing their jobs.
Feel for the people involved. They are our most valuable commodity. People.
To the Coal Burning Supporters:
How do you feel about China, burning coal to meet their energy demands?
I can't answer for coal burning supporters because obviously I'm not one but I'll say this- I live on the west coast and I see the effects almost daily. I've read various estimates on what percentage of air pollution here comes from China and from what I've read it looks to be about 25% That's a lot, considering how far away China is. Between that, Fukushima, and the pollution we create here on our own it's no wonder asthma, lung disease, respiratory failure and the like are on the rise here.
It rained here Saturday night. By the end of Sunday the sky was brown. Sound like L.A.? No, I live in Northern California where everything is supposed to be green and groovy. A bit cynical? You bet.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
To the Coal Burning Supporters:
How do you feel about China, burning coal to meet their energy demands?
I can't answer for coal burning supporters because obviously I'm not one but I'll say this- I live on the west coast and I see the effects almost daily. I've read various estimates on what percentage of air pollution here comes from China and from what I've read it looks to be about 25% That's a lot, considering how far away China is. Between that, Fukushima, and the pollution we create here on our own it's no wonder asthma, lung disease, respiratory failure and the like are on the rise here.
It rained here Saturday night. By the end of Sunday the sky was brown. Sound like L.A.? No, I live in Northern California where everything is supposed to be green and groovy. A bit cynical? You bet.
...
Wait til China starts firing on all 3 billion cylinders. It's going to get kinda smokey all up in here. and what will keep our coal industry from selling to China... if China ia the highest bidder?
My best guess... the pro-coal people won't complain about it because they wouldn't want to go back on their position.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.
Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I'll lose my house if this electric bill goes any higher!
I agree get the alternative in place first! gosh darn it! :fp:
they must think we are all made out of money :evil:
People don't change behaviors until they are forced to. I actually think the only way people will make changes is if the old options aren't available anymore or are at least made less available. Shitty but true.
Meanwhile, there are lots of ways to save electricity. I.e. use it less, power smart home plans, etc.
iO
We are saving electricity but the bill is still enormous!
They can not and should not raise the rates,
people are defaulting on their bills causing the rates to go up even higher.
Keep the coal until another viable alternative source is in place. This is common sense.
It is very easy for people to make light of situations when they do not experience it themselves.
Like not being able to pay a bill or when people are losing their jobs.
Feel for the people involved. They are our most valuable commodity. People.
I feel deeply for the people involved...all of us. I have great concern over our health and environment. I have less concern over money. That is how it should be, right?
"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win ."
Burning coal does about as much damage to the environment as pissing in the ocean raises the ocean's level.
We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.
Of course the energy that you consume causes not a damn thing
If you actually think that do a simple experiment.
Get a hose and attach it to the muffler of your car then put other
End of hose inside the cab. See how long it is till your poisoned and you die
Maybe all the pollution creatEd for you electRicity can be piped directly into your bedroom
Seeing as how it's harmless
One person polluting may not cause anything but million upon millions of us doing it WILL HAVE AN EFFECT
Wait til China starts firing on all 3 billion cylinders. It's going to get kinda smokey all up in here. and what will keep our coal industry from selling to China... if China ia the highest bidder?
My best guess... the pro-coal people won't complain about it because they wouldn't want to go back on their position.
Everyone 'feeds' China and will do even more. New mines are being dug up, etc. But it's OK because 'we're' not burning the coal and 'we're' doing our bit for the environment. Coal is being shipped far afield - causing more pollution. Big, big business. Demand on coal is also bringing the price of this commodity up. Win/win situation for big corporations.
Clean coal technology is out there but one still has to pay the price for this development to be fully implemented (assuming one wants to continue using coal). I am willing to pay a bit more in order to try and ensure my daughter's children can go play outside without having asthma/allergies issues due to pollution, to try and ensure a cleaner planet for us all.
Comments
yeah!!! i cant wait to pay more for my electicity bill cause the company is gonna be passing on their tax to me. australia has all the sunshine in the world and yet do we utilise it?? nope. we continue to burn fossil fuels while the coal industry and the cons scream that the governemnt is killing the industry and the families who work in the undustry. yet i watch as our govts for example still allow the raising of inefficient houses(and in the case of sydney, the seemingly never ending expansion of the suburban sprawl with nothing in place to cut down on the reliance of cars) cause theyre also helping prop up the building industry. id have more respect for our govt if they implemented other initiatives alongside the carbon tax.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
We are moving our biz to a new commerical leased space and no we can't live there,
as it is not residential, it's in the lease, our current space as well.
Pools are very expensive on one's electric bill :? part of the problem.
Huge house = huge electric bill, why ours is on the market.
And yes they think we are all made of money and yes get an alternative plan in place
before and stop raising the electric bills!. :fp:
I swear they are systematically reducing home ownership any way they can.
Skyrocketing utility bills and property taxes ( ours went up by 36% ! ) a great way to do it.
fight back and don't use any oil
we need a war on war usage
This isn't directed at you Godfather, but your post is a perfect example of the the problems with this political climate we have created:
Question #1 - "What's in place to save these families?": Not sure... and I feel bad for anyone losing their job. But on the flipside, people on the right were so up in arms about the auto bailouts, and spending that money helped the families. How many thousands of families would have been without jobs if not for the bailouts? We selectively make emotional arguments to support things that we agree with, and ignore than when they are things we disagree with.
Question #2 - "Is there a renewable energy source in place?": Not really... nothing on the scale we need. Buuuuutttt... when the republicans and oil/coal lobbyist fight tooth and nail against any large scale effort to financially support alternative energies, it's pretty funny when they can conveniently use the excuse of "we need to produce/use more oil and coal, because there is nothing else we can use". It reminds me of the "too big to fail" excuse the banking industry used, after years of fighting any sorts of regulations that would prevent them from getting so big in the first place.
was like a picture
of a sunny day
“We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
― Abraham Lincoln
wow a great reply for sure thanks ! your post got me thinking/wondering,the working man has been used for excusses and as a scap-goat by politions on all sides, it dosen't seem to mater if it's coal or renewable energy
in the end because the working man will pay the price either way with no real say in the matter.
Godfather.
Meanwhile, there are lots of ways to save electricity. I.e. use it less, power smart home plans, etc.
http://www.ontariotenants.ca/electricit ... 4c18.phtml
Old article. Haven't found anything up to date that wasn't on the govt site yet. Do they have data on jobs, health care costs, etc from this move yet?
And what's up with this group...
http://quixoteslaststand.com/category/t ... y-act-gea/
really!?? ... this is what you are going with?
you might have been the 18th hit this year for that site ...
not sure ... thing with smog is that it travels ... most of the smog we get here in southern ontario comes from northern ohio and the manufacturing and coal plants there ... with manufacturing gone the way of the dodo bird - we are getting less smog in general ...
the reality with this stuff ... is that burning coal is bad in many ways ... why do you think trains stop using it or furnaces or anything else that used to use coal ... not only does it contribute to global warming but the pollutants related to coal is brutal ... and is largely responsible for respiratory related illnesses ...
No I asked what's up with this group because it looked weird. I don't know anything about it.
Yeah I know. I was just trying to find out more info on it. I know their are problems with burning coal. I also know that you have to have an alternative in place as well as a plan for jobs. I didn't know anything about this until this thread so I was just trying to find out some info and figured you'd be pretty up to speed, even if one-sided.
Really? It's kinda a different topic to use tax payers money to fund an failing industry versus shutting down workplaces. Not really comparable at all. Personally, I didn't know if the bailouts were a good idea at the time nor now, but this is comparing apples to oranges. It''s one thing to have an industry close down because they don't make $ and nobody is buying their products, it's entirely another to shut them down despite people wanting their products. I understand why they are doing it, but it's a terrible comparison.
As for the "too big to fail", just another weird analogy. A better anaolgy would have been Field of Dreams, "if we shut it down, alternative energy will come!!!". I agree that it's an excuse to only use coal/oil and and not figure out alternative means, but to just stop without a replacement is a bit reckless.
with some conservation strategies and a decline in the manufacturing sector - we've been using less and less energy here ... i suspect that number will spike this summer as it's projected to be hot and dry ... :( ... neighbour's AC is already on ... not even june yet ...
things don't work in isolation ... an industry failing isn't necessarily always just the fault of the industry ... the game is fixed in america ... the only reason oil and coal succeed is because the game is rigged in their favour ...
And the only reason it's failing in Ontario is because the game is rigged against them. You just happen to like the rigging going on there.
energy production isn't really privatized here ... the coal fire plants belong to OPG which is wholly owned by the province ...
we are shutting down coal because the incremental costs related to coal far outweigh the benefits
They can not and should not raise the rates,
people are defaulting on their bills causing the rates to go up even higher.
Keep the coal until another viable alternative source is in place. This is common sense.
It is very easy for people to make light of situations when they do not experience it themselves.
Like not being able to pay a bill or when people are losing their jobs.
Feel for the people involved. They are our most valuable commodity. People.
How do you feel about China, burning coal to meet their energy demands?
Hail, Hail!!!
I can't answer for coal burning supporters because obviously I'm not one but I'll say this- I live on the west coast and I see the effects almost daily. I've read various estimates on what percentage of air pollution here comes from China and from what I've read it looks to be about 25% That's a lot, considering how far away China is. Between that, Fukushima, and the pollution we create here on our own it's no wonder asthma, lung disease, respiratory failure and the like are on the rise here.
It rained here Saturday night. By the end of Sunday the sky was brown. Sound like L.A.? No, I live in Northern California where everything is supposed to be green and groovy. A bit cynical? You bet.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Wait til China starts firing on all 3 billion cylinders. It's going to get kinda smokey all up in here. and what will keep our coal industry from selling to China... if China ia the highest bidder?
My best guess... the pro-coal people won't complain about it because they wouldn't want to go back on their position.
Hail, Hail!!!
We are merely a spec of dust in relation to the world's existence...to think that we can save/destroy the planet solely through our actions is absurd and egotistical.
"With our thoughts we make the world"
Of course the energy that you consume causes not a damn thing
If you actually think that do a simple experiment.
Get a hose and attach it to the muffler of your car then put other
End of hose inside the cab. See how long it is till your poisoned and you die
Maybe all the pollution creatEd for you electRicity can be piped directly into your bedroom
Seeing as how it's harmless
One person polluting may not cause anything but million upon millions of us doing it WILL HAVE AN EFFECT
Everyone 'feeds' China and will do even more. New mines are being dug up, etc. But it's OK because 'we're' not burning the coal and 'we're' doing our bit for the environment. Coal is being shipped far afield - causing more pollution. Big, big business. Demand on coal is also bringing the price of this commodity up. Win/win situation for big corporations.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/22/scien ... wanted=all
Clean coal technology is out there but one still has to pay the price for this development to be fully implemented (assuming one wants to continue using coal). I am willing to pay a bit more in order to try and ensure my daughter's children can go play outside without having asthma/allergies issues due to pollution, to try and ensure a cleaner planet for us all.