Just being a kid or something more deep seated?

pandora

I've given my opinion on things that are done as teens, that we can not judge the adult ...
and that I have witnessed many a bully grow a heart and a brain with age.


I can't help but feel that the Romney haters think this was unforgivable,
a real character trait eye opener :?
while those who don't have strong feelings against him aren't making much of it.

In other words if he was a Democrat would this thread not exist we know it wouldn't
have been dug up if he wasn't a candidate against President Obama.

Jason P

When PETA throws red paint on someone wearing a fur coat, is that bullying?

polaris_x

Jason P wrote:

When PETA throws red paint on someone wearing a fur coat, is that bullying?

no ... it's assault ... if this peta member did it every day or repeatedly ... it would be bullying ...

pjhawks

pandora wrote:

I've given my opinion on things that are done as teens, that we can not judge the adult ...
and that I have witnessed many a bully grow a heart and a brain with age.


I can't help but feel that the Romney haters think this was unforgivable,
a real character trait eye opener :?
while those who don't have strong feelings against him aren't making much of it.

In other words if he was a Democrat would this thread not exist we know it wouldn't
have been dug up if he wasn't a candidate against President Obama.

Pandora, but as an adult when someone asks about something you did as a teen shouldn't your response be a little more sympathetic and understanding of why it was wrong than what Romney gave? shouldn't you understand at a later age that your actions as a teen may have not been received by the other party as attended and could have had negative consequences to that person? to basically say it was just kid's play and to say that as an adult, i have a problem with that. republican or democrat.

pandora

pjhawks wrote:

pandora wrote:

I've given my opinion on things that are done as teens, that we can not judge the adult ...
and that I have witnessed many a bully grow a heart and a brain with age.


I can't help but feel that the Romney haters think this was unforgivable,
a real character trait eye opener :?
while those who don't have strong feelings against him aren't making much of it.

In other words if he was a Democrat would this thread not exist we know it wouldn't
have been dug up if he wasn't a candidate against President Obama.

Pandora, but as an adult when someone asks about something you did as a teen shouldn't your response be a little more sympathetic and understanding of why it was wrong than what Romney gave? shouldn't you understand at a later age that your actions as a teen may have not been received by the other party as attended and could have had negative consequences to that person? to basically say it was just kid's play and to say that as an adult, i have a problem with that. republican or democrat.

I'm glad it is not along party lines your opinion.
I think his words could be taken as at the time it was kid's play... he thought of it as such
and perhaps still does.

Admitting you're wrong when you are a candidate running for President of the United States
is probably considered suicide and would be dramatically blown up.
It's probably written in some guideline book on how to be a politician...
never admit you are wrong. They have a perfected way of avoiding and never really saying anything.

I'm not sure the bullies I have know and met up with again were ever good at
saying they are sorry. Knowing they did wrong is about all you get and not repeating
the behavior anymore.
People don't like to appear weakened most especially a bully personality.
Because we know many were terribly bullied by the adults in their life and that runs deep.
It is learned behavior and not one that past bullies are proud of.

JOEJOEJOE

I was bullied as a kid by a few jerks.

Even worse then a bully are the bully's lackeys who bully others (at the direction of the bully) in order to avoid being bullied themselves. One such lackey I saw a few years ago only talks about the past, as if it was his time of glory.

Three guys that buillied me met with very early demises....one died in an auto accident, one died of cancer (he was in and out of jail for several years) and one died of an O.D. (he too had done time for drug dealing).

I chuckled when I learned of their deaths, since the ill-will of their bullying was still fresh in my mind. I do now realize that all life is sacred, and that they left behind loved-ones whose lives were forever changed.

pjhawks

JOEJOEJOE wrote:

I was bullied as a kid by a few jerks.

Even worse then a bully are the bully's lackeys who bully others (at the direction of the bully) in order to avoid being bullied themselves. One such lackey I saw a few years ago only talks about the past, as if it was his time of glory.

Three guys that buillied me met with very early demises....one died in an auto accident, one died of cancer (he was in and out of jail for several years) and one died of an O.D. (he too had done time for drug dealing).

I chuckled when I learned of their deaths, since the ill-will of their bullying was still fresh in my mind. I do now realize that all life is sacred, and that they left behind loved-ones whose lives were forever changed.

when i was 19 a kid who i went to grade school with and who i had some scuffles with was killed when he was hit by a car walking home one night. when my mom told me he was killed i replied 'good, he was a jerk'. i've regretted saying that for years now. just typing that makes me cringe that i was so callous.

hedonist

polaris_x wrote:

hedonist wrote:

Very well-said, inlet!

really!?? ... i hope someone close to you isn't a victim of bullying ... :(

I got bullied some when I was in school.

But that aside, I do agree with what inlet said about our cry-baby society (and we are, ie, "everyone wins", "it's not my fault", etc.), and he made a point of saying he doesn't condone bullying; just that its elimination is against human nature, especially those of children.

I found his views, while perhaps strong in how they were worded, to be realistic, fairly constructive as relates to teaching coping skills, and not dismissive of the idea of awareness of the issue.

pandora

If getting made fun of...
called terrible names because you are fat, if that is bullying...
then I lived that hell for about half of my young years on and off and on and off and on...

It seemed how I was treated by the exact same people was based on what the scale read
at the time. Perhaps the cool factor.

Not much changes in this world over time does it?

Cosmo

Youthful indescretion... would the words be different if you swapped Romney's name with Obama's?
...
My best guess: HELL FUCKING YES!!!!

brianlux

inlet13 wrote:

Here's what I don't understand... and it's much broader than Mitt Romney:

Why do people really think they will ever get bullies to not exist? I mean I'm now seeing commercials to stop bullying. Really? Commercials with famous actors? You think that really will stop it? For real? I don't think it will even make a dent in it, but do you think it will really stop it for good... come on?

Did anyone hear say they thought we could eliminate bullying all together? Nice thought, actually, but I don't think any of us are that naive.

inlet13 wrote:

Why not instead of trying to "stop" what's going to continue anyway, we come to grips with the fact that there are assholes of all shapes and sizes out there? Why don't we teach our children that Mommy and Daddy complaining on TV about bullying isn't going to solve the problem. Instead, why don't we teach our children about reality. The reality that people are picked on and prejudice of all kinds exists and will never, ever go away. No matter how much media, government or leaders try to make people buy into a mentality - it won't work if it's counter to human nature. Sure, you can try to bury it with political correctness, but it will remain. I'd venture to guess some of the biggest "bullies" are housewives... you going to stop them? Why don't we teach our kids abilities - like here's how you deal with a bully, rather than going to the "teacher or supervisor or the press" to solve the problem. This is exactly what's wrong with society. The bullying is wrong, but it's inherent. The new action is the response... the "waah" response.

Teach abilities vs being "politically correct? Hell yes. Speaking out against bullying is "politically correct"? No. It's the right thing to do.

inlet13 wrote:

I'm not advocating bullying - like I said assholes trying to drag people down to asshole level. But, we live in such a cry baby society it sometimes makes me want to vomit. Just man up for Christ's sake.

You calling me a cry baby? I think not, buddy. You do and I'll pin you down and cut your hair off... and then your nuts. Come on, man. What a crock. Seriously, wanna see my scars? Fuck that.

inlet13 wrote:

If someone treats you you poorly, it sucks, but it's not going to pay dividends unless we realize that the person is probably insecure themselves, ... and there are coping mechanisms. In fact, one can use these coping mechanisms - like humor for example - for the rest of their lives. To be literally complaining years or decades down the line about how you were ever picked on, shows that you probably never came to grips with reality nor developed coping mechanisms to deal with this stuff. Teaching both is important for our children, who now interact in a new broader way.

Well said, inlet. Kudos to this. I live what you said here. I'm not a victim. No way, no how.

inlet13 wrote:

To me - teaching this is time well spent. Learning how to deal with this, rather than seeing Mom and Dad or the school or even society at large try to pretend like they will stop human nature.

Bottom line - Life is not utopia. Stop crying about it. The sooner we come to grips with reality the better.

What's with the crying bit again? Do you have a problem with crying? Man up. Learn to cry.

inlet13

hedonist wrote:

inlet13 wrote:

Here's what I don't understand... and it's much broader than Mitt Romney:

Why do people really think they will ever get bullies to not exist? I mean I'm now seeing commercials to stop bullying. Really? Commercials with famous actors? You think that really will stop it? For real? I don't think it will even make a dent in it, but do you think it will really stop it for good... come on?

Why not instead of trying to "stop" what's going to continue anyway, we come to grips with the fact that there are assholes of all shapes and sizes out there? Why don't we teach our children that Mommy and Daddy complaining on TV about bullying isn't going to solve the problem. Instead, why don't we teach our children about reality. The reality that people are picked on and prejudice of all kinds exists and will never, ever go away. No matter how much media, government or leaders try to make people buy into a mentality - it won't work if it's counter to human nature. Sure, you can try to bury it with political correctness, but it will remain. I'd venture to guess some of the biggest "bullies" are housewives... you going to stop them? Why don't we teach our kids abilities - like here's how you deal with a bully, rather than going to the "teacher or supervisor or the press" to solve the problem. This is exactly what's wrong with society. The bullying is wrong, but it's inherent. The new action is the response... the "waah" response.

I'm not advocating bullying - like I said assholes trying to drag people down to asshole level. But, we live in such a cry baby society it sometimes makes me want to vomit. Just man up for Christ's sake. If someone treats you you poorly, it sucks, but it's not going to pay dividends unless we realize that the person is probably insecure themselves, ... and there are coping mechanisms. In fact, one can use these coping mechanisms - like humor for example - for the rest of their lives. To be literally complaining years or decades down the line about how you were ever picked on, shows that you probably never came to grips with reality nor developed coping mechanisms to deal with this stuff. Teaching both is important for our children, who now interact in a new broader way.

To me - teaching this is time well spent. Learning how to deal with this, rather than seeing Mom and Dad or the school or even society at large try to pretend like they will stop human nature.

Bottom line - Life is not utopia. Stop crying about it. The sooner we come to grips with reality the better.

Very well-said, inlet!

Thank you.

inlet13

pjhawks wrote:

teenagers don't have the capability to realize other people's insecurities. words and actions sting at that age.

Teenagers and young adults have amazing capability to learn. So, I disagree. They can learn that others who criticize them do have insecurities... that is if we taught them.

P.S. Words and actions sting at "any" age. Not saying it's not a bit tougher at an early age,... but, that's why this lesson (learning how to cope) is all the more important.

pjhawks wrote:

there is no shrugging it off. it's way to easy to tell a teenager to shrug things off but it doesn't work that way in real life. maybe you were never hurt by someone's words or actions at that age, or maybe you've never had a child come to you after they've been hurt or stung by someone's action. would you tell your hurt crying son or daughter to shrug off a bully who has hurt them? fuck that. sorry i disagree 1000% with your post.

I don't care if you agree or disagree... it's how I feel. I'm sick of our cry-baby, immediate gratification society. This issues sets me off.

Anyway, I wouldn't tell them to shrug it off completely, no. In fact, I wouldn't do that at all. Clearly you read my post with a deep-seeded bias. What I said was parents should teach their kids how to deal with it.

I said - as much as bullying is wrong (which it is!)... it exists and is not going anywhere. If my son or daughter was being bullied, I'd listen to the scenarios. I'd ask for as much info as I could obtain. I'd listen and have them tell me more and more about the bully and their actions. If it was serious assault, of course, I'd report it to the authorities because it was a crime. But, if it was "antics" of a typical bully. I wouldn't. I'd talk to my child about how to handle it in the future. If needed, I'd seek out the parent of that individual bully. Basically, I'd be a proactive parent and not a big cry baby... going to a teacher and expecting him or her to sort it out.... or broader cry about it on TV drawing more attention and embarrassment to my child. I'm not an idiot. So, under the scenario you laid out, I wouldn't draw unnecessary attention. Instead, I'd focus on solving the problem and equipping my child with capabilities they can use for the rest of their life.

pjhawks wrote:

edit: and maybe you can't fully stop it, but you surely can make more of an awareness of it. most kids i think would internalize it. i think today with more awareness it allows kids to at least deal with it better. maybe the awareness of it helps a kid deal with it better emotionally because they know they are not alone in being bullied.

You can't stop it. Yes, you can spend money making awareness of something that' existed since the dawn of time. Why don't you make "awareness" on stealing? Or why don't you make "awareness" on lying though? They've also existed since the dawn of time.

In fact, I think the awareness makes matters worse. It's cheesy and kids see through it. Further, it's a complete waste of money. Intentions are in the right place, however.

Like I've said, bullies are assholes. But, TV commercials don't make assholes melt.

inlet13

polaris_x wrote:

soo ... you are ranting against people who want to raise an awareness campaign against bullying!?? ... you'd rather teach kis what exactly? ... tell me your enlightened approach to bullying?

As soon as I saw you quoted my post... I knew you'd be against it... that's the way you work.

I'm not ranting against people who want to raise awareness. My point is there is, and always has been awareness. It's like drawing awareness to the inevitable. Like I've said already... is bullying good? No. Is lying? No. Is stealing? No.

Let's draw awareness to "death"? You know.. right? :fp:

So,... my point is... lying, stealing, ect. they are all still going to happen. No matter how many celebrities (who probably already did the above) you have saying not to do it. It's simply a waste of money.

Should we raise awareness though? Yes!!! At home. With our loved ones. Yes. We should. But, moreover, teach them how to deal with it.

I've said it already - bullying sucks.... but, guess what... no matter how much money you throw at it... it won't go away.

So, instead, maybe we should talk about "HOW TO DEAL" with it. Because "it" isn't going anywhere. Like I said before, I think some could argue housewives are pretty big bullies - particularly to other housewives. Not trying to pick on housewives whatsoever, but just trying to get across the "FACT" that it doesn't go away. I mean, the elderly could also bully too.

polaris_x wrote:

by this distorted logic we can assume that awareness campaigns about violence against women should be abandoned ... or sexual abuse of children ... or drugs in school ... etc ... i mean, they are all gonna happen regardless ... we should all just shut up and suck it up ...

horrible :(

Your extensions of this makes me want to vomit... ha ha... I've already said, I don't care if you make awareness complains about lying or stealing... but, I can also say they are a waste of time.

Now, you're trying to say that I'm saying it's ok to be violent against women or abuse children or more "crimes? Come on, man. You've lost it. That's not OK. They are all "CRIMES". Crimes should be reported to the authorities. I wouldn't, nor have I ever advocated any of the above... why you went there... no clue.

Now, back to the subject. If bullying is a CRIME... report it. If not, my point is teach our kids to deal with it. As I said before, we act like everything's a crime these days, even when it's not. For example, if a student is picking on your son or daughter with words, I'd suggest teaching them how to deal with that, rather than running to the teacher. Why? Ummmm... because that "tendency" is only going to lead them to be picked on more in the future.

Rationality hurts sometimes.

Prince Of Dorkness

We have more than enough mortifying stuff about Mitt Romney from the last two months without having to go back 47 years.

Prince Of Dorkness

Oh, but that said... Mitt Romney is a total swine. Nothing will make me happier than to watch him go down in flames. The fact that he can't even admit to what he did is a good indication of the kind of president he'll be.

polaris_x

hedonist wrote:

I got bullied some when I was in school.

But that aside, I do agree with what inlet said about our cry-baby society (and we are, ie, "everyone wins", "it's not my fault", etc.), and he made a point of saying he doesn't condone bullying; just that its elimination is against human nature, especially those of children.

I found his views, while perhaps strong in how they were worded, to be realistic, fairly constructive as relates to teaching coping skills, and not dismissive of the idea of awareness of the issue.

his post clearly states that we shouldn't raise awareness about bullying and kids should just suck it up ...

i suppose war vets that suffer from ptsd should also suck it up cuz war happens and people die ...

polaris_x

inlet13 wrote:

As soon as I saw you quoted my post... I knew you'd be against it... that's the way you work.

I'm not ranting against people who want to raise awareness. My point is there is, and always has been awareness. It's like drawing awareness to the inevitable. Like I've said already... is bullying good? No. Is lying? No. Is stealing? No.

dude ... get over yourself ... i am against the post for exactly the reasons i stated ... i have agreed with you in other threads ...

you wrote this:

Why do people really think they will ever get bullies to not exist? I mean I'm now seeing commercials to stop bullying. Really? Commercials with famous actors? You think that really will stop it? For real? I don't think it will even make a dent in it, but do you think it will really stop it for good... come on?

you are ranting against people who want to raise awareness against bullying ... why would you do that if you are against bullying!?? ... your usage of the term "cry baby" is pathetic in every sense of the word ... it makes a mockery of people who have suffered societal ills ... your solution is basically to suck it up ...

mikepegg44

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Oh, but that said... Mitt Romney is a total swine. Nothing will make me happier than to watch him go down in flames. The fact that he can't even admit to what he did is a good indication of the kind of president he'll be.

Here let me get that for you....you seemed to have dropped some knowledge.

When nothing is your fault, when you cannot admit to a mistake, you are not going to be a good leader. Mi

pjhawks

inlet13 wrote:

pjhawks wrote:

teenagers don't have the capability to realize other people's insecurities. words and actions sting at that age.

Teenagers and young adults have amazing capability to learn. So, I disagree. They can learn that others who criticize them do have insecurities... that is if we taught them.

P.S. Words and actions sting at "any" age. Not saying it's not a bit tougher at an early age,... but, that's why this lesson (learning how to cope) is all the more important.

pjhawks wrote:

there is no shrugging it off. it's way to easy to tell a teenager to shrug things off but it doesn't work that way in real life. maybe you were never hurt by someone's words or actions at that age, or maybe you've never had a child come to you after they've been hurt or stung by someone's action. would you tell your hurt crying son or daughter to shrug off a bully who has hurt them? fuck that. sorry i disagree 1000% with your post.

I don't care if you agree or disagree... it's how I feel. I'm sick of our cry-baby, immediate gratification society. This issues sets me off.

Anyway, I wouldn't tell them to shrug it off completely, no. In fact, I wouldn't do that at all. Clearly you read my post with a deep-seeded bias. What I said was parents should teach their kids how to deal with it.

I said - as much as bullying is wrong (which it is!)... it exists and is not going anywhere. If my son or daughter was being bullied, I'd listen to the scenarios. I'd ask for as much info as I could obtain. I'd listen and have them tell me more and more about the bully and their actions. If it was serious assault, of course, I'd report it to the authorities because it was a crime. But, if it was "antics" of a typical bully. I wouldn't. I'd talk to my child about how to handle it in the future. If needed, I'd seek out the parent of that individual bully. Basically, I'd be a proactive parent and not a big cry baby... going to a teacher and expecting him or her to sort it out.... or broader cry about it on TV drawing more attention and embarrassment to my child. I'm not an idiot. So, under the scenario you laid out, I wouldn't draw unnecessary attention. Instead, I'd focus on solving the problem and equipping my child with capabilities they can use for the rest of their life.

pjhawks wrote:

edit: and maybe you can't fully stop it, but you surely can make more of an awareness of it. most kids i think would internalize it. i think today with more awareness it allows kids to at least deal with it better. maybe the awareness of it helps a kid deal with it better emotionally because they know they are not alone in being bullied.

You can't stop it. Yes, you can spend money making awareness of something that' existed since the dawn of time. Why don't you make "awareness" on stealing? Or why don't you make "awareness" on lying though? They've also existed since the dawn of time.

In fact, I think the awareness makes matters worse. It's cheesy and kids see through it. Further, it's a complete waste of money. Intentions are in the right place, however.

Like I've said, bullies are assholes. But, TV commercials don't make assholes melt.

show me one instance where awareness has made a matter worse?