Just being a kid or something more deep seated?

brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,427
edited May 2012 in A Moving Train
What do think? Boys being boys or something more deeply disturbing?

(See link for full article)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ ... print.html

"Mitt Romney’s prep school classmates recall pranks, but also troubling incidents.

BLOOMFIELD HILLS, Mich. — Mitt Romney returned from a three-week spring break in 1965 to resume his studies as a high school senior at the prestigious Cranbrook School. Back on the handsome campus, studded with Tudor brick buildings and manicured fields, he spotted something he thought did not belong at a school where the boys wore ties and carried briefcases. John Lauber, a soft-spoken new student one year behind Romney, was perpetually teased for his nonconformity and presumed homosexuality. Now he was walking around the all-boys school with bleached-blond hair that draped over one eye, and Romney wasn’t having it.

“He can’t look like that. That’s wrong. Just look at him!” an incensed Romney told Matthew Friedemann, his close friend in the Stevens Hall dorm, according to Friedemann’s recollection. Mitt, the teenage son of Michigan Gov. George Romney, kept complaining about Lauber’s look, Friedemann recalled.

A few days later, Friedemann entered Stevens Hall off the school’s collegiate quad to find Romney marching out of his own room ahead of a prep school posse shouting about their plan to cut Lauber’s hair. Friedemann followed them to a nearby room where they came upon Lauber, tackled him and pinned him to the ground. As Lauber, his eyes filling with tears, screamed for help, Romney repeatedly clipped his hair with a pair of scissors.

The incident was recalled similarly by five students, who gave their accounts independently of one another. Four of them — Friedemann, now a dentist; Phillip Maxwell, a lawyer; Thomas Buford, a retired prosecutor; and David Seed, a retired principal — spoke on the record. Another former student who witnessed the incident asked not to be identified. The men have differing political affiliations, although they mostly lean Democratic. Buford volunteered for Barack Obama’s campaign in 2008. Seed, a registered independent, has served as a Republican county chairman in Michigan. All of them said that politics in no way colored their recollections.

“It happened very quickly, and to this day it troubles me,” said Buford, the school’s wrestling champion, who said he joined Romney in restraining Lauber. Buford subsequently apologized to Lauber, who was “terrified,” he said. “What a senseless, stupid, idiotic thing to do.”

“It was a hack job,” recalled Maxwell, a childhood friend of Romney who was in the dorm room when the incident occurred. “It was vicious.”

“He was just easy pickin’s,” said Friedemann, then the student prefect, or student authority leader of Stevens Hall, expressing remorse about his failure to stop it.

The incident transpired in a flash, and Friedemann said Romney then led his cheering schoolmates back to his bay-windowed room in Stevens Hall.

Friedemann, guilt ridden, made a point of not talking about it with his friend and waited to see what form of discipline would befall Romney at the famously strict institution. Nothing happened.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young













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Comments

  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    I dont know...If this really happened, that is pretty fucked up.
    I would not call that "just being a kid," as a high school senior.
    Pick up my debut novel here on amazon: Jonny Bails Floatin (in paperback) (also available on Kindle for $2.99)
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    To be honest, it appears we have five highly respected individuals who made a horrible decision in their youth (47 years ago) and regret it. It is interesting to see that four of the people involved are taking the high road on this and casting a person that they don't ideologically agree with as the ringleader.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • usamamasan1usamamasan1 Posts: 4,695
    If there was a pattern it would be disturbing. This is a non-issue.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,427
    I knew kids like this in high school. I was on the receiving end of this kind of crap. The ones that did this kind of thing had already established a mentality to match. The last time I attended a high school reunion a lot of these guys looked like major losers. Maybe Romney is an exception but you can probably understand why I'm skeptical.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    At that age, yes, one should know better.

    That said, I have to say this story seems like grasping at straws.
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    Is Romney still saying that he doesn't remember it?

    Bringing this up in an election 47 years later is stupid, so is claiming that you don't remember the incident.
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • BamaPJFanBamaPJFan Posts: 410
    Is Romney still saying that he doesn't remember it?

    Bringing this up in an election 47 years later is stupid, so is claiming that you don't remember the incident.

    I agree. It's stupid on all levels. However, this election is going to be one of the dirtiest in history with more of these personal, character attacks to come between now and November.
    United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
    Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09


  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 11,677
    brianlux wrote:
    I knew kids like this in high school. I was on the receiving end of this kind of crap. The ones that did this kind of thing had already established a mentality to match. The last time I attended a high school reunion a lot of these guys looked like major losers. Maybe Romney is an exception but you can probably understand why I'm skeptical.


    I can relate to this post, at least so much as being on the receiving end etc.

    With that being said, I hope people don't judge me on the decisions I made when I was a teenager, that's for sure. Does it sound like Romney was a dick back then? Absolutely, but to me it's not an issue.
  • inlet13inlet13 Posts: 1,979
    brianlux wrote:
    I knew kids like this in high school. I was on the receiving end of this kind of crap. The ones that did this kind of thing had already established a mentality to match. The last time I attended a high school reunion a lot of these guys looked like major losers.

    Not trying to pry or instigate, but...

    ..aren't you kind of doing the same thing they did to you? Re-read the underlined part.
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  • inlet13inlet13 Posts: 1,979
    Here's an idea:

    Why don't we focus on the candidates platforms and ideas instead of dumb stuff like birth certificates and highschool bullying?

    This is exactly what's wrong with politics. This nonsense.
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  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    inlet13 wrote:
    Here's an idea:

    Why don't we focus on the candidates platforms and ideas instead of dumb stuff like birth certificates and highschool bullying?

    This is exactly what's wrong with politics. This nonsense.
    I agree! As November nears, more and more of the important issues will take a back seat to mud and the flinging of shit at eachother.

    Distractions.

    As Bama said above, this is gonna take some of the nastiest (and, I predict, irrelevant) turns yet.
  • BamaPJFanBamaPJFan Posts: 410
    hedonist wrote:
    inlet13 wrote:
    Here's an idea:

    Why don't we focus on the candidates platforms and ideas instead of dumb stuff like birth certificates and highschool bullying?

    This is exactly what's wrong with politics. This nonsense.
    I agree! As November nears, more and more of the important issues will take a back seat to mud and the flinging of shit at eachother.

    Distractions.

    As Bama said above, this is gonna take some of the nastiest (and, I predict, irrelevant) turns yet.

    The Super PACs out there on both sides of the aisle are going to make the 'Swift Boat' ads from 2004 look like child's play. Historic amounts of money are being poured into these entities and the gloves have come off.
    United Center (Chicago): 8/24/09
    Gibson Amphitheatre (Los Angeles): 10/7/09


  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    sounds like some kids needed an ass whooping
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    My opinion, more than a prank gone too far. This boy was targeted by Romney and his friends because Romney was the big man on campus. Using his homosexual teachings he probably called this boy all kinds of names, and being the sixties accused this boy of being a hippie and a draft dodger [even though Romney dodged the Vietnam draft by going on a’missionary’ quest to France].

    The saddest thing about Romney’s comments is that Romney couldn’t even acknowledge the person hurt by his actions. Romney’s feeble comment was: "I did some dumb things and if anybody was hurt by that or offended ... obviously, I apologize,"

    This only tells me that Romney’s acts of cruelty were common place and he has no regrets or remorse. You don’t forget committing that type of act upon another person, yet that is who Mitt Romney is and will always be - A person who gets ahead on the pain of others – in this case it was physical – in our case, if elected – it’ll be financial.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    I was trying to think if me and my friends ever did something of this harshness to someone we didn't like in high school and thankfully I can't recall ever targeting anyone at all.

    But .... I do recall my friends and I doing crap like this to each other. Clippers, sharpies, bb-guns, M-80 firecrackers, you name it. :mrgreen:
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 11,749
    I say no big deal.
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    I say, if your man enough to do something like that, own it, but he didn’t which for me makes him more of __________, than the person he abused.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,427
    inlet13 wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    I knew kids like this in high school. I was on the receiving end of this kind of crap. The ones that did this kind of thing had already established a mentality to match. The last time I attended a high school reunion a lot of these guys looked like major losers.

    Not trying to pry or instigate, but...

    ..aren't you kind of doing the same thing they did to you? Re-read the underlined part.

    OK, fair enough. I can see where it reads that way. Yes, I have issues with bullies.

    But that said, no, it's not the same because I didn't name, or confront them and never would. I wouldn't bother to tell them to their face what fucks they were because I'm speaking about a general personality trait here. I haven't done anything to these people as individuals- they probably don't even know I exist. So no, I've done nothing to hurt them.

    What I'm saying is, these people don't act so tough today and they don't look so good either. I never voted for them for class president, class clown or class prick and I wouldn't today. Bullying is bullshit. That's my stance and I'm sticking to it.

    To me the article indicates that Romney has some bullying issues. By the time most people are in their teens their basic personality is pretty much intact. Maybe he's changed, maybe not. But to me this is a red flag.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    The brain does not fully develop until age 25 ... so personality, consequence, reasoning
    in teens and young adults are still compromised.

    Even well beyond that people are growing and learning. I wouldn't want to be judged
    by what I did decades ago. Well I don't want to be judged at all ;)
    way too much of that going on.

    We have gone to every class reunion, I am witness to much change in people...
    even the bullies grow a heart.
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    pandora wrote:
    The brain does not fully develop until age 25 ... so personality, consequence, reasoning
    in teens and young adults are still compromised.

    Even well beyond that people are growing and learning. I wouldn't want to be judged
    by what I did decades ago. Well I don't want to be judged at all ;)
    way too much of that going on.

    We have gone to every class reunion, I am witness to much change in people...
    even the bullies grow a heart.
    many a bully shoulda had their teeth knocked out and 47 years later they are still as useless as they were as children and young adults. i vote for major slapping-fests to begin ASAP.
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    This kind of journalism/politics disgusts me. People do a lot of stupid things when they are that age. If it was a pattern that continued into later life, that would be a different story.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    know1 wrote:
    This kind of journalism/politics disgusts me. People do a lot of stupid things when they are that age. If it was a pattern that continued into later life, that would be a different story.
    not one single person i ever knew held a kid down and cut another kids hair off because it was not to their liking

    just sayin
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,427
    puremagic wrote:
    My opinion, more than a prank gone too far. This boy was targeted by Romney and his friends because Romney was the big man on campus. Using his homosexual teachings he probably called this boy all kinds of names, and being the sixties accused this boy of being a hippie and a draft dodger [even though Romney dodged the Vietnam draft by going on a’missionary’ quest to France].

    The saddest thing about Romney’s comments is that Romney couldn’t even acknowledge the person hurt by his actions. Romney’s feeble comment was: "I did some dumb things and if anybody was hurt by that or offended ... obviously, I apologize,"

    This only tells me that Romney’s acts of cruelty were common place and he has no regrets or remorse. You don’t forget committing that type of act upon another person, yet that is who Mitt Romney is and will always be - A person who gets ahead on the pain of others – in this case it was physical – in our case, if elected – it’ll be financial.

    I totally agree. This is more than just a minor prank or one of those dumb things we do as kids. Sure we all did dumb things as kids but, like puremagic said, this is more than a prank gone to far. It's a personality trait. It's about hatred and bullying. And teenagers have developed their brains enough to know the difference between right and wrong. I don't understand why anyone would try to brush this off or ignore it as being meaningless... unless you like the idea of having a bully for a leader. That's happened often enough. That's not the kind of person I want to see in office.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    I did some things as a teenager, even a bit older, that I knew were wrong - beyond wrong - yet did them anyway.

    Lo these many years later, I consider myself a decent person, albeit one who's made mistakes and learned from them.

    Surely I'm not the only one...?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,427
    chadwick wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    This kind of journalism/politics disgusts me. People do a lot of stupid things when they are that age. If it was a pattern that continued into later life, that would be a different story.
    not one single person i ever knew held a kid down and cut another kids hair off because it was not to their liking

    just sayin

    I never knew anyone who actually did that either, Chadwick. But thank you for reminding me of something (I'd have mentioned it earlier but, hey, aging brain, what can I say)- I did know a kid who had it happen to him. While on vacation, a high school friend of mine was held down by some bullies and had his long hair cut off. I remember him describing the incident to me and and some friends and I remember that it was very traumatizing for him. I knew another kid in high school who was an avowed pacifist. I bully went up to him and said, "If I hit you, will you hot me back?" The pacifist said, "No, I'm a pacifist." The bully punched him in the face and laughed. I'm not making this up. This shit happens and I for one don't make light of it. People who do this sort of thing are not the kind of people I want as a leader.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • know1know1 Posts: 6,794
    chadwick wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    This kind of journalism/politics disgusts me. People do a lot of stupid things when they are that age. If it was a pattern that continued into later life, that would be a different story.
    not one single person i ever knew held a kid down and cut another kids hair off because it was not to their liking

    just sayin

    Times were a lot different back then as well. You have to put everything in context.

    I stand by my statement.
    The only people we should try to get even with...
    ...are those who've helped us.

    Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 12,593
    know1 wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    This kind of journalism/politics disgusts me. People do a lot of stupid things when they are that age. If it was a pattern that continued into later life, that would be a different story.
    not one single person i ever knew held a kid down and cut another kids hair off because it was not to their liking

    just sayin

    Times were a lot different back then as well. You have to put everything in context.

    I stand by my statement.

    the bigger issue is that today Romney still doesn't seem to get that what he did was wrong and being a bully. he still think's it was 'kid's play'. well mitt you are wrong. i'd have more respect if he came out and admitted that it was bullying and that he was sorry for it. i don't really see him being sorry for his actions though. most of us as we become adults realize we did stupid shit as teenagers and most of us come to regret those actions.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,427
    hedonist wrote:
    I did some things as a teenager, even a bit older, that I knew were wrong - beyond wrong - yet did them anyway.

    Lo these many years later, I consider myself a decent person, albeit one who's made mistakes and learned from them.

    Surely I'm not the only one...?

    We all did dumb things, Hedonist, and I don't picture you as a bully. I have not doubt you are a decent person.

    Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe people who are cruel in nature do change. I personally haven't known anyone who was cruel who later became kind but I suppose it's possible. On the other hand, when someone has a history of cruelty, I think that needs to be looked at closely before we elect that person to be our president. I still don't understand just brushing it off.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,427
    know1 wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    know1 wrote:
    This kind of journalism/politics disgusts me. People do a lot of stupid things when they are that age. If it was a pattern that continued into later life, that would be a different story.
    not one single person i ever knew held a kid down and cut another kids hair off because it was not to their liking

    just sayin

    Times were a lot different back then as well. You have to put everything in context.

    I stand by my statement.

    It wasn't ok to be a bully back then.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,427
    pjhawks wrote:

    the bigger issue is that today Romney still doesn't seem to get that what he did was wrong and being a bully. he still think's it was 'kid's play'. well mitt you are wrong. i'd have more respect if he came out and admitted that it was bullying and that he was sorry for it. i don't really see him being sorry for his actions though. most of us as we become adults realize we did stupid shit as teenagers and most of us come to regret those actions.

    Exactly!
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













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