Chinese activist Chen Guangcheng

dmaradona10dmaradona10 Posts: 915
edited May 2012 in A Moving Train
I think Obama should come out in support of this activist. He has been tight lipped so far. I hope Chen is able to leave China along with his family to the U.S.
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Comments

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    I think Obama should come out in support of this activist. He has been tight lipped so far. I hope Chen is able to leave China along with his family to the U.S.
    I totally agree. If the west is going to keep doing business with china, it needs to take a stand against China's human rights problem, and force China to catch up with what is decent and right. I find it appalling that the world doesn't speak out more just for the sake of making cheaper shit. It's disgusting. I hope that Guangcheng stays safe. And I read that his family and supporters have disappeared into the custody of the government,so I hope they will be okay too. What they're all doing is so important and just unimaginably brave.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    he doesn't want to leave china ... he isn't looking for asylum in the US ... he wants to live in china and he wants the corrupt officials in his town to be arrested and charged ...
  • CH156378CH156378 Posts: 1,539
    I think Obama should come out in support of this activist. He has been tight lipped so far. I hope Chen is able to leave China along with his family to the U.S.
    +1
  • CH156378CH156378 Posts: 1,539
    wouldn't china rather see him leave. if he wanted i don't think it would be a problem for him.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    CH156378 wrote:
    wouldn't china rather see him leave. if he wanted i don't think it would be a problem for him.

    no ... china has like a zero tolerance policy on this front ... china controls its population with an iron fist and human right activists are made examples of ... they may allow him to "leave" on medical grounds so that he can receive care in america but they likely would not let him leave without some form of compensation from the US ...
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    polaris_x wrote:
    they may allow him to "leave" on medical grounds so that he can receive care in america but they likely would not let him leave without some form of compensation from the US ...
    Maybe we can trade them Gloria Allred, straight up.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    Jason P wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    they may allow him to "leave" on medical grounds so that he can receive care in america but they likely would not let him leave without some form of compensation from the US ...
    Maybe we can trade them Gloria Allred, straight up.

    typical american ... always trying to screw other people over ... :lol::lol:
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    polaris_x wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    polaris_x wrote:
    they may allow him to "leave" on medical grounds so that he can receive care in america but they likely would not let him leave without some form of compensation from the US ...
    Maybe we can trade them Gloria Allred, straight up.

    typical american ... always trying to screw other people over ... :lol::lol:
    We can throw Carrot Top in to sweeten the deal if they balk at the initial offer.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    CH156378 wrote:
    wouldn't china rather see him leave. if he wanted i don't think it would be a problem for him.
    If he leaves China, he will be free (and encouraged) to speak out against the corrupt government with the world as an audience. China wants to keep him silent, and they can only do that if he remains in China (I know he doesn't want to leave China because he's fighting for it... but I actually think he could do more if he did manage to leave and continue his work from the outside).
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    My guess is the authorities in Beijing will actually side with him and punish those officials in his hometown in Shandong province. There's been so much publicity surrounding this particular case that it will be almost impossible for them to brush it under the carpet and lock him up in jail without briging even more unwanted attention upon themselves. The leadership has been making some noise of late with regards to clamping down on corruption in the country, so I reckon that they'll use this incident to try and convince the population that this is just what they're doing. They won't clamp down too hard though, and they'll probably just make a big publicity stunt out of it, while in the meantime things will continue as normal. It's their own asses they'll be protecting afterall.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    Byrnzie wrote:
    My guess is the authorities in Beijing will actually side with him and punish those officials in his hometown in Shandong province. There's been so much publicity surrounding this particular case that it will be almost impossible for them to brush it under the carpet and lock him up in jail without briging even more unwanted attention upon themselves. The leadership has been making some noise of late with regards to clamping down on corruption in the country, so I reckon that they'll use this incident to try and convince the population that this is just what they're doing. They won't clamp down too hard though, and they'll probably just make a big publicity stunt out of it, while in the meantime things will continue as normal. It's their own asses they'll be protecting afterall.
    That seems like a logical assessment. The US probably didn't want to give him asylum and strain relations, especially leading into an election. And China can save face by doing what you mentioned above.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    just read this. looks like he might be going to america after all.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/04/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1

    my question now is will people in similar situations also do the same thing and what will america do?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    fife wrote:
    just read this. looks like he might be going to america after all.

    http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/04/world/asi ... ?hpt=hp_t1

    my question now is will people in similar situations also do the same thing and what will america do?
    Hopefully grant them all asylum. I hope so... these people are fighting for human rights and freedoms - America is always going on about how they stand for those principals, so they should take in anyone who risks themselves for standing for those same values. Plus, it's nice to have people like that come to the US - people who will risk everything for such important principles. Seems like they're good influences to have around!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    Fears that he won't be able to leave now... again. :( Don't chicken out, US! Please save this man! He's one of the best ones!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... s-out.html
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    .... and now he is coming... I think. The story keeps changing, not sure what to believe anymore! So I'll just wait until his plane lands at JFK.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    .... and now he is coming... I think. The story keeps changing, not sure what to believe anymore! So I'll just wait until his plane lands at JFK.

    Maybe you should meet him at the airport and ask him if he's ever mistreated any animlas?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    Byrnzie wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    .... and now he is coming... I think. The story keeps changing, not sure what to believe anymore! So I'll just wait until his plane lands at JFK.

    Maybe you should meet him at the airport and ask him if he's ever mistreated any animlas?
    Why would you post that comment??
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    .... and now he is coming... I think. The story keeps changing, not sure what to believe anymore! So I'll just wait until his plane lands at JFK.

    Maybe you should meet him at the airport and ask him if he's ever mistreated any animlas?
    Why would you post that comment??

    Just teasing. :P
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    edited May 2012
    Byrnzie wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:

    Maybe you should meet him at the airport and ask him if he's ever mistreated any animlas?
    Why would you post that comment??

    Just teasing. :P
    Oh, okay. I thought you were being passive aggressive! ... and still do.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    PJ_Soul wrote:

    Am I the only one who doesn't really think this is going to happen?

    I can see something like some paperwork gone missing
  • ONCE DEVIDEDONCE DEVIDED Posts: 1,131
    When the US isn't violating anyone's rights their president may have the moral authority to brow beat another nation.
    AUSSIE AUSSIE AUSSIE
  • fifefife Posts: 3,327
    When the US isn't violating anyone's rights their president may have the moral authority to brow beat another nation.

    Can the same be said about every country?
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    Here’s my problem with this case. No one speaks of the US policy known as the Mexico City Policy also known as, the Global Gag Rule.

    I applaud Chen’s efforts, however, Chen’s not fighting China’s policy, he’s fighting a US imposed policy that undermines China’s family planning policy along with other countries around the world.

    The Mexico City Policy was first imposed by the Reagan administration at the 1984 United Nations International Conference on Population in Mexico City. It was rescinded in 1993 by President Clinton, reinstated in 2001 by President George W. Bush, and once again rescinded by President Obama in 2009.

    As part of the State Department’s 2013 fiscal budget, Congress reinstated the Global Gag Rule which is administered by USAID – see the implication.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    When the US isn't violating anyone's rights their president may have the moral authority to brow beat another nation.
    :fp: Obama isn't brow beating anyone in this case. Please get your facts before making such comments.
    Also, that is a terrible attitude, even though no one's brow beating in this situation (Guangcheng is the one who escaped and went to the US Embassy and asked to leave China for America - American is just accommodating that; not brow beating IMO. Responding to the pleas of a man whose life is in danger, along with his family's, who chose to take refuge on American soil) ... Until America does some shit you want, they shouldn't work towards anything good ever? If every country had that attitude, the whole world would go to shit in about 3 minutes. Furthermore, China needs a bit of brow beating generally - what's going on in other countries is a separate issue.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    puremagic wrote:
    Here’s my problem with this case. No one speaks of the US policy known as the Mexico City Policy also known as, the Global Gag Rule.

    I applaud Chen’s efforts, however, Chen’s not fighting China’s policy, he’s fighting a US imposed policy that undermines China’s family planning policy along with other countries around the world.

    The Mexico City Policy was first imposed by the Reagan administration at the 1984 United Nations International Conference on Population in Mexico City. It was rescinded in 1993 by President Clinton, reinstated in 2001 by President George W. Bush, and once again rescinded by President Obama in 2009.

    As part of the State Department’s 2013 fiscal budget, Congress reinstated the Global Gag Rule which is administered by USAID – see the implication.
    Is any of that the point? He wants to leave China now because he fears for his family's safety because he spoke against the Chinese government. What his opinions mean to you or what they mean when compared to some policy seem to be neither here nor there...
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    puremagic wrote:
    Here’s my problem with this case. No one speaks of the US policy known as the Mexico City Policy also known as, the Global Gag Rule.

    I applaud Chen’s efforts, however, Chen’s not fighting China’s policy, he’s fighting a US imposed policy that undermines China’s family planning policy along with other countries around the world.

    The Mexico City Policy was first imposed by the Reagan administration at the 1984 United Nations International Conference on Population in Mexico City. It was rescinded in 1993 by President Clinton, reinstated in 2001 by President George W. Bush, and once again rescinded by President Obama in 2009.

    As part of the State Department’s 2013 fiscal budget, Congress reinstated the Global Gag Rule which is administered by USAID – see the implication.
    Is any of that the point? He wants to leave China now because he fears for his family's safety because he spoke against the Chinese government. What his opinions mean to you or what they mean when compared to some policy seem to be neither here nor there...

    He should have thought about that shit beforehand. Do you think Chen did not know that his life and that of his family would be in danger the moment he became a political activist and started speaking out against China’s family planning policy?

    Your damn right it’s on point because it’s all about politics. You seem to forget how China’s human right policy always finds its way into any discussion of US/China relationships; yet, it always gets downplayed. Well there’s the reason why, the Mexico City Policy and whether you think it’s a factor or not - it’s a political reality. Here’s another political reality, China retained most-favorite-nation trade status even during and after the Tiananmen Square incident, with no human rights strings attached.

    Chen and his family may get to leave China, but what started out as a political coup for the US has cost the U.S. some major negotiating points, now that Chen wants to leave with his family which would be in China’s best interest.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    puremagic wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    puremagic wrote:
    Here’s my problem with this case. No one speaks of the US policy known as the Mexico City Policy also known as, the Global Gag Rule.

    I applaud Chen’s efforts, however, Chen’s not fighting China’s policy, he’s fighting a US imposed policy that undermines China’s family planning policy along with other countries around the world.

    The Mexico City Policy was first imposed by the Reagan administration at the 1984 United Nations International Conference on Population in Mexico City. It was rescinded in 1993 by President Clinton, reinstated in 2001 by President George W. Bush, and once again rescinded by President Obama in 2009.

    As part of the State Department’s 2013 fiscal budget, Congress reinstated the Global Gag Rule which is administered by USAID – see the implication.
    Is any of that the point? He wants to leave China now because he fears for his family's safety because he spoke against the Chinese government. What his opinions mean to you or what they mean when compared to some policy seem to be neither here nor there...

    He should have thought about that shit beforehand. Do you think Chen did not know that his life and that of his family would be in danger the moment he became a political activist and started speaking out against China’s family planning policy?

    Your damn right it’s on point because it’s all about politics. You seem to forget how China’s human right policy always finds its way into any discussion of US/China relationships; yet, it always gets downplayed. Well there’s the reason why, the Mexico City Policy and whether you think it’s a factor or not - it’s a political reality. Here’s another political reality, China retained most-favorite-nation trade status even during and after the Tiananmen Square incident, with no human rights strings attached.

    Chen and his family may get to leave China, but what started out as a political coup for the US has cost the U.S. some major negotiating points, now that Chen wants to leave with his family which would be in China’s best interest.
    Oh pooh. China isn't going to risk losing a single penny from the US due to diplomatic issues. China likes to throw little tantrums about this stuff, but they won't risk anything economically in the long run, which means that it's no skin off the US's back in the end. China knows that the US is still the most powerful country in the world, and the US isn't going to lose that hand just because of one dissident who sought refuge in their embassy.

    And yes, of course Guangcheng thought of that shit beforehand. Some people in this world risk everything to fight for what is right. it's an admirable thing and we should admire it, and encourage it in the world where injustices are common place. That doesn't mean he shouldn't try to protect his life and his family's when they're threatened by a government that kills people just to shut them up. Fuck that! I think it's just plain crass not to support dissidents against the Chinese government.... I also actually think that the West should impose trade embargoes against China until they straighten up, but, of course, the US also cares about money first and foremost. With both parties having the same attitude where it "matters", things will continue on as usual as far as trade negotiations go, aside from a little huffing and puffing from China to save face... I mean, what else are they going to do? Support North Korea? Supply weapons to dangerous nations? ... Oh wait. They already do all that no matter how smooth things are between them and the US at any given time!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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