Tourists to be banned from pot cafes in Netherlands, WTF?

PJ_Soul

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17865151
Say goodbye to 75% of your tourist industry Holland!

This is SOOOO stupid. They are basically treating visitors like second-class citizens or potential criminals just because they're from somewhere else. My desire to ever visit Amsterdam just depleted somewhat for sure. I understand wanting to stop dealers, but not allowing tourists in the cannabis cafes definitely seems like a VERY bad way to go about it, not only for the tourists and their rights as people, but also, of course, for the cafe owners. I definitely think this is discriminatory big time. Total bullshit.

gimmesometruth27

its obama's fault...



in all seriousness, that sucks. i am sure that the tourism is a big part of their economy.

amsterdam and those cafes had been on my bucket list.... guess i had better pick someplace else. perhaps prague?

green mountain man

The ban in Amsterdam will begin in 2013.
PJ 6/26/12 & 6/27/12
This will be my fourth and last time.
When tourism plummets they will overturn the policy.

redrock

Unfortunately, this kind of 'tourism' was starting to get a bit out of control. A lot of the 'tourists' do not have the same kind of lifestyle attitude (for lack of better words) of the Dutch and it was starting to cause problems.

I have seen Amsterdam change so much over the years as more and more young people came just for this purpose (and the red light district!). A bit like the lager louts and their stag week-ends in Prague, etc. All of this is good income, but also 'destruction'.

Though the ban starts in the southern provinces so there is still a bit of time to visit A'dam!

PJ_Soul

redrock wrote:

Unfortunately, this kind of 'tourism' was starting to get a bit out of control. A lot of the 'tourists' do not have the same kind of lifestyle attitude (for lack of better words) of the Dutch and it was starting to cause problems.

I have seen Amsterdam change so much over the years as more and more young people came just for this purpose (and the red light district!). A bit like the lager louts and their stag week-ends in Prague, etc. All of this is good income, but also 'destruction'.

Though the ban starts in the southern provinces so there is still a bit of time to visit A'dam!

Just don't see how it's legal though. Allowing some people into a type of business and not allowing others by virtue of their nationality, literally? That seems like a human rights violation doesn't it?? It does to me.
(And they should have exemptions for people from BC at least ... We're old hacks at the pot scene and will cause no trouble). If they hare having so much trouble, then they should change the laws for everyone or improve policing, not make tourists unequal humans while visiting. It's just wrong.

Seriously... I won't be bothering visiting now unless I get a free trip or happen to be right by it already someday. I didn't want to go JUST because of the cafes of course, but it sure didn't hurt - I wanted to experience the scene they have going, and it was pretty much the main reason I wanted to visit as much as I did, along with millions of other people. It WILL hurt them financially.

redrock

PJ_Soul wrote:

Just don't see how it's legal though. Allowing some people into a type of business and not allowing others by virtue of their nationality, literally? That seems like a human rights violation doesn't it?? It does to me.

You would think so, but it would seem as we are talking about a consumption of a drug (which by the way, cannabis is NOT legal in the Netherlands, just tolerated - it's still a criminal offense) and the sale of narcotics is illegal in the EU, this discrimination thing doesn't apply. Or something along those lines but with all kinds of legal and technical terms. Though I'm sure it will be tested in the European Court of Human Rights (if it hasn't been yet). Also the coffee shops will become 'private clubs' with membership - this alone is a different set of rules than a cafe/pub/whatever that is open to all.

PJ_Soul wrote:

...It WILL hurt them financially.

It will. And they are aware of it. It also has potential to create other problems (ie pushers selling the drug in the street to tourists). The government is in a push to 'clean up' A'dam (and other cities) as well. A little while back, strong cannabis was reclassified and coffee shops had to take it off the shelves. That was the start of it.

PJ_Soul

redrock wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

Just don't see how it's legal though. Allowing some people into a type of business and not allowing others by virtue of their nationality, literally? That seems like a human rights violation doesn't it?? It does to me.

You would think so, but it would seem as we are talking about a consumption of a drug (which by the way, cannabis is NOT legal in the Netherlands, just tolerated - it's still a criminal offense) and the sale of narcotics is illegal in the EU, this discrimination thing doesn't apply. Or something along those lines but with all kinds of legal and technical terms. Though I'm sure it will be tested in the European Court of Human Rights (if it hasn't been yet). Also the coffee shops will become 'private clubs' with membership - this alone is a different set of rules than a cafe/pub/whatever that is open to all.

PJ_Soul wrote:

...It WILL hurt them financially.

It will. And they are aware of it. It also has potential to create other problems (ie pushers selling the drug in the street to tourists). The government is in a push to 'clean up' A'dam (and other cities) as well. A little while back, strong cannabis was reclassified and coffee shops had to take it off the shelves. That was the start of it.

Weak. As more and more people (including many politicians and law enforcers) in Canada are pushing for legalization or decriminalization, Holland is doing this... Umm, yeah, as you mentioned, have they not considered the problems that come with criminalizing it?? Because they are very profound, as we all know, and the reason more and more people in Canada support DEcriminalizing. I dunno... just seems like a really really stupid move to me; I would have thought they'd be clever enough to come up with a better idea to deal with whatever problems they are finding. One that doesn't encourage crime and that doesn't seem to violate human rights. And one that so many people who are directly impacted are opposed to, including the mayor of Amsterdam... The problems from it couldn't be THAT bad if so many people are fighting it.

PillowPants

green mountain man wrote:

The ban in Amsterdam will begin in 2013.
PJ 6/26/12 & 6/27/12
This will be my fourth and last time.
When tourism plummets they will overturn the policy.

exactly why i'm going

it would be like if they closed bourbon st

chadwick

i could get my badass weed in holland no matter what the tourist law says. of course that's how i roll.

redrock

They are not 'criminalizing it', just changing their approach (I guess :? ). It will still be the same for the Dutch, though one will have to become a member, etc. I think the government is trying to stop the flux of this kind of tourism and clean up their act, hoping to get the 'right' type of tourists back. There is also the fact that it has increased other drugs being sold in the street - 'tourists' thinking it's a drug haven being able to score other stuff and pushers knowing the tourists will think that way and are ready to supply. I guess the government are hoping that if there are less young ones on the streets puking and pissing and making a general nuisance of themselves and, because there is less demand from them for other drugs, it will make the cities feel safer and look better. From what I have heard on the news, the pros and cons have been weighed (as much as any government can weigh)... They seem to think that the financial loss to the overall tourist trade will not be all that bad in the end. A lot of coffee shops will close (and not become clubs with a limited number of members), jobs will be lost, tax revenue will be lost......

I know that lots of coffee shops will protest and defy the ban, making the government go after them one by one...

PJ_Soul

chadwick wrote:

i could get my badass weed in holland no matter what the tourist law says. of course that's how i roll.

Well, yeah - street dealing will just skyrocket - we'll all still be able to get it if we want it I'm sure... But it's the principle of the thing... And not like you can take your weed into the cafes to smoke it and hang out. We're actually banned from even being able to enter them, not just from being able to buy and smoke weed in them. I don't have to go to Amsterdam to smoke good weed in a park or on the sidewalk. I can do that in Vancouver.

PJ_Soul

redrock wrote:

They are not 'criminalizing it', just changing their approach (I guess :? ). It will still be the same for the Dutch, though one will have to become a member, etc. I think the government is trying to stop the flux of this kind of tourism and clean up their act, hoping to get the 'right' type of tourists back. There is also the fact that it has increased other drugs being sold in the street - 'tourists' thinking it's a drug haven being able to score other stuff and pushers knowing the tourists will think that way and are ready to supply. I guess the government are hoping that if there are less young ones on the streets puking and pissing and making a general nuisance of themselves and, because there is less demand from them for other drugs, it will make the cities feel safer and look better. From what I have heard on the news, the pros and cons have been weighed (as much as any government can weigh)... They seem to think that the financial loss to the overall tourist trade will not be all that bad in the end. A lot of coffee shops will close (and not become clubs with a limited number of members), jobs will be lost, tax revenue will be lost......

I know that lots of coffee shops will protest and defy the ban, making the government go after them one by one...

Did you read the whole article? It talks about what they shop owners and others are going to do about it. And as I mentioned, the mayor of Amsterdam (among others) is also protesting it, so how bad could those issues you mentioned really be?

chadwick

PJ_Soul wrote:

chadwick wrote:

i could get my badass weed in holland no matter what the tourist law says. of course that's how i roll.

Well, yeah - street dealing will just skyrocket - we'll all still be able to get it if we want it I'm sure... But it's the principle of the thing... And not like you can take your weed into the cafes to smoke it and hang out. We're actually banned from even being able to enter them, not just from being able to buy and smoke weed in them. I don't have to go to Amsterdam to smoke good weed in a park or on the sidewalk. I can do that in Vancouver.

and what a fantastic place. i am sad i am a iowa corn boy. boofuckinghoo for me. i'll smoke my bunk ass mexican junk brown weed. peeve me off a bit

appie

Its true that the goverment is working on a ban for the whole country,but for now its forbidden for tourist in the south of The Netherlands that lies close to the French/Belgian border after the first of may..

You are all safe in Amsterdam after this date and probably Amsterdam will be the only city after the ban that can still can sell to tourists..Close to the borders are many troubles and that is what they dont want..

Good music and blurry visions are yours in the summer...

redrock

PJ_Soul wrote:

Did you read the whole article? It talks about what they shop owners and others are going to do about it. And as I mentioned, the mayor of Amsterdam (among others) is also protesting it, so how bad could those issues you mentioned really be?

I did, and many others and have been following it on the news here. A'dam was my 'playground' for many years and I still go there regularly. As I said in an earlier post, I have seen Amsterdam change a lot with the increase of a certain type of tourism/tourist. These are the same groups of tourists that will 'ruin it' for others in different countries that may cater for younger visitors, such as Prague which is becoming the city of choice for major stag week-ends. Generally loutish behaviour. How big of a problem it is, I don't really know. I just see these as an annoyance, really.

Personally, I liked the coffee shops, preferring those outside the most touristy places, though I haven't 'fully' appreciated all their sevices for a while! As with all these things, it's polically motivated. We'll see how it pans out. One thing for sure, they are not taking this laying down

Jason P

I just checked the price of an airline ticket from the states .... I think my wallet beat your politicians on the banning. .... :(

green mountain man

chadwick wrote:

PJ_Soul wrote:

chadwick wrote:

i could get my badass weed in holland no matter what the tourist law says. of course that's how i roll.

Well, yeah - street dealing will just skyrocket - we'll all still be able to get it if we want it I'm sure... But it's the principle of the thing... And not like you can take your weed into the cafes to smoke it and hang out. We're actually banned from even being able to enter them, not just from being able to buy and smoke weed in them. I don't have to go to Amsterdam to smoke good weed in a park or on the sidewalk. I can do that in Vancouver.

and what a fantastic place. i am sad i am a iowa corn boy. boofuckinghoo for me. i'll smoke my bunk ass mexican junk brown weed. peeve me off a bit

Vermont has some killer bud. The green mountain state. Sorry to hear about Iowa's lack of sweet leaf.

green mountain man

Jason P wrote:

I just checked the price of an airline ticket from the states .... I think my wallet beat your politicians on the banning. .... :(

Amsterdam looks like it will be a $6000 week.
Even going to Boston one night for a concert,dinner,etc. is a $1000 trip.
:evil: :evil:

hedonist

green mountain man wrote:

Vermont has some killer bud. The green mountain state.

So does California

I can't say that if the ban goes into effect, it'd keep me away (should I be in the vicinity to begin with). It's a beautiful, charming city with much to offer aside from those particular goodies.

Of course, I'd still search it out

It'd be a shame if they lost tourist dollars and their "cool PR" (for lack of a better term) over this.

peacefrompaul

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

its obama's fault...



in all seriousness, that sucks. i am sure that the tourism is a big part of their economy.

amsterdam and those cafes had been on my bucket list.... guess i had better pick someplace else. perhaps prague?

Yes to Prague

JOEJOEJOE

I hope that PJ420dude is stoned when he reads this thread...he'll need comforting!