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Tourists to be banned from pot cafes in Netherlands, WTF?

PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
edited May 2012 in A Moving Train
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17865151
Say goodbye to 75% of your tourist industry Holland!

This is SOOOO stupid. They are basically treating visitors like second-class citizens or potential criminals just because they're from somewhere else. My desire to ever visit Amsterdam just depleted somewhat for sure. I understand wanting to stop dealers, but not allowing tourists in the cannabis cafes definitely seems like a VERY bad way to go about it, not only for the tourists and their rights as people, but also, of course, for the cafe owners. I definitely think this is discriminatory big time. Total bullshit.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    its obama's fault...



    in all seriousness, that sucks. i am sure that the tourism is a big part of their economy.

    amsterdam and those cafes had been on my bucket list.... guess i had better pick someplace else. perhaps prague?
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • green mountain mangreen mountain man Posts: 735
    edited April 2012
    The ban in Amsterdam will begin in 2013.
    PJ 6/26/12 & 6/27/12 :mrgreen:
    This will be my fourth and last time.
    When tourism plummets they will overturn the policy.
    Post edited by green mountain man on
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    Unfortunately, this kind of 'tourism' was starting to get a bit out of control. A lot of the 'tourists' do not have the same kind of lifestyle attitude (for lack of better words) of the Dutch and it was starting to cause problems.

    I have seen Amsterdam change so much over the years as more and more young people came just for this purpose (and the red light district!). A bit like the lager louts and their stag week-ends in Prague, etc. All of this is good income, but also 'destruction'.

    Though the ban starts in the southern provinces so there is still a bit of time to visit A'dam! ;)
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    redrock wrote:
    Unfortunately, this kind of 'tourism' was starting to get a bit out of control. A lot of the 'tourists' do not have the same kind of lifestyle attitude (for lack of better words) of the Dutch and it was starting to cause problems.

    I have seen Amsterdam change so much over the years as more and more young people came just for this purpose (and the red light district!). A bit like the lager louts and their stag week-ends in Prague, etc. All of this is good income, but also 'destruction'.

    Though the ban starts in the southern provinces so there is still a bit of time to visit A'dam! ;)

    Just don't see how it's legal though. Allowing some people into a type of business and not allowing others by virtue of their nationality, literally? That seems like a human rights violation doesn't it?? It does to me.
    (And they should have exemptions for people from BC at least ... We're old hacks at the pot scene and will cause no trouble). If they hare having so much trouble, then they should change the laws for everyone or improve policing, not make tourists unequal humans while visiting. It's just wrong.

    Seriously... I won't be bothering visiting now unless I get a free trip or happen to be right by it already someday. I didn't want to go JUST because of the cafes of course, but it sure didn't hurt - I wanted to experience the scene they have going, and it was pretty much the main reason I wanted to visit as much as I did, along with millions of other people. It WILL hurt them financially.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Just don't see how it's legal though. Allowing some people into a type of business and not allowing others by virtue of their nationality, literally? That seems like a human rights violation doesn't it?? It does to me.
    You would think so, but it would seem as we are talking about a consumption of a drug (which by the way, cannabis is NOT legal in the Netherlands, just tolerated - it's still a criminal offense) and the sale of narcotics is illegal in the EU, this discrimination thing doesn't apply. Or something along those lines but with all kinds of legal and technical terms. Though I'm sure it will be tested in the European Court of Human Rights (if it hasn't been yet). Also the coffee shops will become 'private clubs' with membership - this alone is a different set of rules than a cafe/pub/whatever that is open to all.
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    ...It WILL hurt them financially.
    It will. And they are aware of it. It also has potential to create other problems (ie pushers selling the drug in the street to tourists). The government is in a push to 'clean up' A'dam (and other cities) as well. A little while back, strong cannabis was reclassified and coffee shops had to take it off the shelves. That was the start of it.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    edited April 2012
    redrock wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Just don't see how it's legal though. Allowing some people into a type of business and not allowing others by virtue of their nationality, literally? That seems like a human rights violation doesn't it?? It does to me.
    You would think so, but it would seem as we are talking about a consumption of a drug (which by the way, cannabis is NOT legal in the Netherlands, just tolerated - it's still a criminal offense) and the sale of narcotics is illegal in the EU, this discrimination thing doesn't apply. Or something along those lines but with all kinds of legal and technical terms. Though I'm sure it will be tested in the European Court of Human Rights (if it hasn't been yet). Also the coffee shops will become 'private clubs' with membership - this alone is a different set of rules than a cafe/pub/whatever that is open to all.
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    ...It WILL hurt them financially.
    It will. And they are aware of it. It also has potential to create other problems (ie pushers selling the drug in the street to tourists). The government is in a push to 'clean up' A'dam (and other cities) as well. A little while back, strong cannabis was reclassified and coffee shops had to take it off the shelves. That was the start of it.
    Weak. As more and more people (including many politicians and law enforcers) in Canada are pushing for legalization or decriminalization, Holland is doing this... Umm, yeah, as you mentioned, have they not considered the problems that come with criminalizing it?? Because they are very profound, as we all know, and the reason more and more people in Canada support DEcriminalizing. I dunno... just seems like a really really stupid move to me; I would have thought they'd be clever enough to come up with a better idea to deal with whatever problems they are finding. One that doesn't encourage crime and that doesn't seem to violate human rights. And one that so many people who are directly impacted are opposed to, including the mayor of Amsterdam... The problems from it couldn't be THAT bad if so many people are fighting it.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PillowPantsPillowPants Posts: 4,877
    green mountain man wrote:
    The ban in Amsterdam will begin in 2013.
    PJ 6/26/12 & 6/27/12 :mrgreen:
    This will be my fourth and last time.
    When tourism plummets they will overturn the policy.


    exactly why i'm going

    it would be like if they closed bourbon st ;)
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    i could get my badass weed in holland no matter what the tourist law says. of course that's how i roll. :mrgreen:
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    They are not 'criminalizing it', just changing their approach (I guess :? ). It will still be the same for the Dutch, though one will have to become a member, etc. I think the government is trying to stop the flux of this kind of tourism and clean up their act, hoping to get the 'right' type of tourists back. There is also the fact that it has increased other drugs being sold in the street - 'tourists' thinking it's a drug haven being able to score other stuff and pushers knowing the tourists will think that way and are ready to supply. I guess the government are hoping that if there are less young ones on the streets puking and pissing and making a general nuisance of themselves and, because there is less demand from them for other drugs, it will make the cities feel safer and look better. From what I have heard on the news, the pros and cons have been weighed (as much as any government can weigh)... They seem to think that the financial loss to the overall tourist trade will not be all that bad in the end. A lot of coffee shops will close (and not become clubs with a limited number of members), jobs will be lost, tax revenue will be lost......

    I know that lots of coffee shops will protest and defy the ban, making the government go after them one by one...
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    chadwick wrote:
    i could get my badass weed in holland no matter what the tourist law says. of course that's how i roll. :mrgreen:
    Well, yeah - street dealing will just skyrocket - we'll all still be able to get it if we want it I'm sure... But it's the principle of the thing... And not like you can take your weed into the cafes to smoke it and hang out. We're actually banned from even being able to enter them, not just from being able to buy and smoke weed in them. I don't have to go to Amsterdam to smoke good weed in a park or on the sidewalk. I can do that in Vancouver.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,021
    redrock wrote:
    They are not 'criminalizing it', just changing their approach (I guess :? ). It will still be the same for the Dutch, though one will have to become a member, etc. I think the government is trying to stop the flux of this kind of tourism and clean up their act, hoping to get the 'right' type of tourists back. There is also the fact that it has increased other drugs being sold in the street - 'tourists' thinking it's a drug haven being able to score other stuff and pushers knowing the tourists will think that way and are ready to supply. I guess the government are hoping that if there are less young ones on the streets puking and pissing and making a general nuisance of themselves and, because there is less demand from them for other drugs, it will make the cities feel safer and look better. From what I have heard on the news, the pros and cons have been weighed (as much as any government can weigh)... They seem to think that the financial loss to the overall tourist trade will not be all that bad in the end. A lot of coffee shops will close (and not become clubs with a limited number of members), jobs will be lost, tax revenue will be lost......

    I know that lots of coffee shops will protest and defy the ban, making the government go after them one by one...
    Did you read the whole article? It talks about what they shop owners and others are going to do about it. And as I mentioned, the mayor of Amsterdam (among others) is also protesting it, so how bad could those issues you mentioned really be?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    i could get my badass weed in holland no matter what the tourist law says. of course that's how i roll. :mrgreen:
    Well, yeah - street dealing will just skyrocket - we'll all still be able to get it if we want it I'm sure... But it's the principle of the thing... And not like you can take your weed into the cafes to smoke it and hang out. We're actually banned from even being able to enter them, not just from being able to buy and smoke weed in them. I don't have to go to Amsterdam to smoke good weed in a park or on the sidewalk. I can do that in Vancouver.
    and what a fantastic place. i am sad i am a iowa corn boy. boofuckinghoo for me. i'll smoke my bunk ass mexican junk brown weed. peeve me off a bit
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • appieappie Posts: 1,441
    Its true that the goverment is working on a ban for the whole country,but for now its forbidden for tourist in the south of The Netherlands that lies close to the French/Belgian border after the first of may..

    You are all safe in Amsterdam after this date and probably Amsterdam will be the only city after the ban that can still can sell to tourists..Close to the borders are many troubles and that is what they dont want..

    Good music and blurry visions are yours in the summer... :mrgreen:
    Pearl Jam 4 live
    h8 2 w8 for concerts
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    Did you read the whole article? It talks about what they shop owners and others are going to do about it. And as I mentioned, the mayor of Amsterdam (among others) is also protesting it, so how bad could those issues you mentioned really be?
    I did, and many others and have been following it on the news here. A'dam was my 'playground' for many years and I still go there regularly. As I said in an earlier post, I have seen Amsterdam change a lot with the increase of a certain type of tourism/tourist. These are the same groups of tourists that will 'ruin it' for others in different countries that may cater for younger visitors, such as Prague which is becoming the city of choice for major stag week-ends. Generally loutish behaviour. How big of a problem it is, I don't really know. I just see these as an annoyance, really.

    Personally, I liked the coffee shops, preferring those outside the most touristy places, though I haven't 'fully' appreciated all their sevices for a while! As with all these things, it's polically motivated. We'll see how it pans out. One thing for sure, they are not taking this laying down
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,156
    I just checked the price of an airline ticket from the states .... I think my wallet beat your politicians on the banning. :mrgreen: .... :(
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • green mountain mangreen mountain man Posts: 735
    chadwick wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    chadwick wrote:
    i could get my badass weed in holland no matter what the tourist law says. of course that's how i roll. :mrgreen:
    Well, yeah - street dealing will just skyrocket - we'll all still be able to get it if we want it I'm sure... But it's the principle of the thing... And not like you can take your weed into the cafes to smoke it and hang out. We're actually banned from even being able to enter them, not just from being able to buy and smoke weed in them. I don't have to go to Amsterdam to smoke good weed in a park or on the sidewalk. I can do that in Vancouver.
    and what a fantastic place. i am sad i am a iowa corn boy. boofuckinghoo for me. i'll smoke my bunk ass mexican junk brown weed. peeve me off a bit
    Vermont has some killer bud. The green mountain state. Sorry to hear about Iowa's lack of sweet leaf.
  • green mountain mangreen mountain man Posts: 735
    Jason P wrote:
    I just checked the price of an airline ticket from the states .... I think my wallet beat your politicians on the banning. :mrgreen: .... :(
    Amsterdam looks like it will be a $6000 week.
    Even going to Boston one night for a concert,dinner,etc. is a $1000 trip.
    :evil: :evil:
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    green mountain man wrote:
    Vermont has some killer bud. The green mountain state.
    So does California 8-)

    I can't say that if the ban goes into effect, it'd keep me away (should I be in the vicinity to begin with). It's a beautiful, charming city with much to offer aside from those particular goodies.

    Of course, I'd still search it out :mrgreen:

    It'd be a shame if they lost tourist dollars and their "cool PR" (for lack of a better term) over this.
  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    its obama's fault...



    in all seriousness, that sucks. i am sure that the tourism is a big part of their economy.

    amsterdam and those cafes had been on my bucket list.... guess i had better pick someplace else. perhaps prague?

    Yes to Prague
  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,615
    I hope that PJ420dude is stoned when he reads this thread...he'll need comforting!
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,428
    redrock wrote:
    Unfortunately, this kind of 'tourism' was starting to get a bit out of control. A lot of the 'tourists' do not have the same kind of lifestyle attitude (for lack of better words) of the Dutch and it was starting to cause problems.

    I have seen Amsterdam change so much over the years as more and more young people came just for this purpose (and the red light district!). A bit like the lager louts and their stag week-ends in Prague, etc. All of this is good income, but also 'destruction'.

    Though the ban starts in the southern provinces so there is still a bit of time to visit A'dam! ;)

    The same thing happened to the Haight Ashbury district in San Francisco. By the time I found a place I could afford in the upper Haight in 1971 the whole scene had changed there. Everybody and their brother and sister had moved in but the flowers in their hair began to wilt rather quickly. My daily walk down to Cole and Carl to catch the N Street car could be a real hassle some days. Talk about people with tombstones in their eyes! The seventies were an awful decade for that district (and much of the city as a whole). Places like The I-Beam helped make it interesting again in the eighties but by the early nineties a sort of pseudo hippie facade had taken over the place with lots of touristy "flower power" shops moving in. It's kind of a mixed bag these days.

    So it will be interesting to see what happens to Amsterdam. It wouldn't surprise me to hear of several changes similar to what happened to the Haight.
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • satansbedsatansbed Posts: 2,139
    this law will be taken to the european court of human rights because it goes against the competition rules from my reading of it.

    i think it will get overturned as the e.u. is built on the freedom of movement
  • SPEEDY MCCREADYSPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 25,749
    So I cant smoke dope in the Netherlands???

    OH NO!!!
    Is my life even worth living???

    How will I survive???
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    So I cant smoke dope in the Netherlands???

    OH NO!!!
    Is my life even worth living???

    How will I survive???
    drive your truck and obey the laws, speedy mccready
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    if history shows me what i know to be true fact because i have eyes, ears and can understand
    i'd think the netherlands were bombed to bits during wwII by the germans
    interesting...
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • SPEEDY MCCREADYSPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 25,749
    Cracks me up...
    That people get upset over this...
    People who live thousands of miles away...Are upset cuz they cant get on a plane and smoke dope in the Netherlands????
    People believe that tourism will collapse over there??? You are telling me the only reason people go to The Netherlands, is to sit in a coffee shop and smoke dope?

    Put down the fucking bongs people.....

    hehehe
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    Cracks me up...
    That people get upset over this...
    People who live thousands of miles away...Are upset cuz they cant get on a plane and smoke dope in the Netherlands????
    People believe that tourism will collapse over there??? You are telling me the only reason people go to The Netherlands, is to sit in a coffee shop and smoke dope?

    Put down the fucking bongs people.....

    hehehe
    again... drive your truck
    we all know you and godfather dismiss, dislike, and disassociate w/ free thinking earth loving hippy types
    aren't you supposed to be in L.A. tomorrow?
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • satansbedsatansbed Posts: 2,139
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    Cracks me up...
    That people get upset over this...
    People who live thousands of miles away...Are upset cuz they cant get on a plane and smoke dope in the Netherlands????
    People believe that tourism will collapse over there??? You are telling me the only reason people go to The Netherlands, is to sit in a coffee shop and smoke dope?

    Put down the fucking bongs people.....

    hehehe

    Yes.
  • SPEEDY MCCREADYSPEEDY MCCREADY Posts: 25,749
    satansbed wrote:
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    Cracks me up...
    That people get upset over this...
    People who live thousands of miles away...Are upset cuz they cant get on a plane and smoke dope in the Netherlands????
    People believe that tourism will collapse over there??? You are telling me the only reason people go to The Netherlands, is to sit in a coffee shop and smoke dope?

    Put down the fucking bongs people.....

    hehehe

    Yes.
    Bullshit...
    Take me piece by piece.....
    Till there aint nothing left worth taking away from me.....
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    satansbed wrote:
    SPEEDY MCCREADY wrote:
    Cracks me up...
    That people get upset over this...
    People who live thousands of miles away...Are upset cuz they cant get on a plane and smoke dope in the Netherlands????
    People believe that tourism will collapse over there??? You are telling me the only reason people go to The Netherlands, is to sit in a coffee shop and smoke dope?

    Put down the fucking bongs people.....

    hehehe

    Yes.
    Bullshit...
    speedy, did you know the diamond trade does not generate as much money as pot seeds does? figure it out
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
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