The church fucking up lives again....

polaris_x

hedonist wrote:

I agree with this, polaris. The same thing is happening within our schools as well. Close the eyes, transfer them out, keep the blinders on.

But to paint the - any - whole group with one brush is absurd. That's what I was talking about.

yeah ... obviously not all catholics are bad people but the entity known as the catholic church is deplorable when it comes to human rights ...

in canada - we have same sex marriages because preventing them would go against our charter of human rights ... the catholic church would have us ban something that would go against that charter ... add reproductive rights, historical abuse charges, handling of molestation and you have an entity that is more concerned with maintaining a power over people than actually helping them ...

i honestly believe that if the catholic church ceased to exist - the world would be a better place ...

MotoDC

Thoughts_Arrive wrote:

The majority of churchgoers and those that run the churches are fakes.

Seems like a few AMTers could use an exorcism or two themselves...

But seriously, have all the opinions you want, but you can't actually believe that such a statement is objectively justifiable, right? Right??? Egads.

Pandora, you gotta stop rising to the bait that is Dorkness' body of work in threads like these. It's not worth your time.

fife

polaris_x wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I agree with this, polaris. The same thing is happening within our schools as well. Close the eyes, transfer them out, keep the blinders on.

But to paint the - any - whole group with one brush is absurd. That's what I was talking about.

yeah ... obviously not all catholics are bad people but the entity known as the catholic church is deplorable when it comes to human rights ...

in canada - we have same sex marriages because preventing them would go against our charter of human rights ... the catholic church would have us ban something that would go against that charter ... add reproductive rights, historical abuse charges, handling of molestation and you have an entity that is more concerned with maintaining a power over people than actually helping them ...

i honestly believe that if the catholic church ceased to exist - the world would be a better place ...

agree with 99% of what you have wrote except for the "the world would be a better place" comment. If the catholic church didn't exist the people who have done bad would just use another philosophy to do what they want to do.

I believe that those priest who raped kids would do so even if they were not priest.

fife

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

I've never known anyone who actually believed everything that was in the bible or even the majority of it.

The church and religion are just a coward's excuse to hurt other people in an attempt to make yourself feel better or an excuse to look down on other people. Nothing more.


Oh... To sexually abuse kids. It's used for that, a lot, too.

this is a very narrow view. while the church has done great harm, I also know many good things that the church has done. I remember back in the early 1990, many churches here in Canada were helping people living with HIV and actually fought along side of people against hospitals and governments.

its never good to paint everyone with the same brush.

polaris_x

fife wrote:

agree with 99% of what you have wrote except for the "the world would be a better place" comment. If the catholic church didn't exist the people who have done bad would just use another philosophy to do what they want to do.

I believe that those priest who raped kids would do so even if they were not priest.

i'm not sure about that ... i think celibacy and indoctrination are a lethal combination ... also, by a better place ... i'm not just talking about child molestation ... the catholic church spends a considerable amount of time and money looking to hinder other people's rights ... see gays and women ...

fife

polaris_x wrote:

fife wrote:

agree with 99% of what you have wrote except for the "the world would be a better place" comment. If the catholic church didn't exist the people who have done bad would just use another philosophy to do what they want to do.

I believe that those priest who raped kids would do so even if they were not priest.

i'm not sure about that ... i think celibacy and indoctrination are a lethal combination ... also, by a better place ... i'm not just talking about child molestation ... the catholic church spends a considerable amount of time and money looking to hinder other people's rights ... see gays and women ...

let's be honest, while hurting one child is hurting to many. we have to keep in mind percentages. most priest have never hurt a child and they follow the rules of celibacy. I personally believe that just because you are a priest can't mean that your also not a sick bastard. priest are not a different breed of people.

as for gay people and woman, I agree but i still believe that if the church was not doing it than another group would. that's because imo, people still follow the us and them idea. people don't like the idea of someone different then them.

polaris_x

fife wrote:

let's be honest, while hurting one child is hurting to many. we have to keep in mind percentages. most priest have never hurt a child and they follow the rules of celibacy. I personally believe that just because you are a priest can't mean that your also not a sick bastard. priest are not a different breed of people.

as for gay people and woman, I agree but i still believe that if the church was not doing it than another group would. that's because imo, people still follow the us and them idea. people don't like the idea of someone different then them.

thing is tho ... how many cases do we not know about!?? ... i doubt all the covered-up cases have been exposed ... i dunno ... i just don't believe in celibacy for life and indoctrination ...

ya ... catholics do not have a monopoly on oppressing specific groups of people ... the thing with the catholic church is that it is arguably the most powerful religion in the world ... sure, if the catholic church folded up tomorrow ... there would be some other religion looking to indoctrinate the cast outs but they won't have the influence or power the catholic church has ...

fife

polaris_x wrote:

fife wrote:

let's be honest, while hurting one child is hurting to many. we have to keep in mind percentages. most priest have never hurt a child and they follow the rules of celibacy. I personally believe that just because you are a priest can't mean that your also not a sick bastard. priest are not a different breed of people.

as for gay people and woman, I agree but i still believe that if the church was not doing it than another group would. that's because imo, people still follow the us and them idea. people don't like the idea of someone different then them.

thing is tho ... how many cases do we not know about!?? ... i doubt all the covered-up cases have been exposed ... i dunno ... i just don't believe in celibacy for life and indoctrination ...

ya ... catholics do not have a monopoly on oppressing specific groups of people ... the thing with the catholic church is that it is arguably the most powerful religion in the world ... sure, if the catholic church folded up tomorrow ... there would be some other religion looking to indoctrinate the cast outs but they won't have the influence or power the catholic church has ...

100% agreed that we don't know everything about the abuse yet and we may never know. and I hold the police and the Church responsible to finding out how many. and everyone who is guilty should be punished to the point of death.

pandora

hedonist wrote:

I agree, though I wouldn't say better than many...maybe just "the same" as many.

The churches help others, it is their plan! Their missions!

Organizing aid, raising money, traveling outside their communities,
staying within helping locals in terrible need.

As the family here in GA caught in the smokey automobile pile up in FL recently.
Everyone killed in the car except for one child. Her whole family gone.
They were here on an expired visa from Brazil for over a decade.
Their church fought hard to have her stay here in the US and raised money for her injuries.

And the church groups who go to the ravaged tornado victims and stay for weeks to help.

There are countess efforts daily because of churches bringing people together
to feel others pain and to help them through crisis.

Churches are just people... good people working for their communities and fellow
members.

This what I meant, this how they do better than many who don't bother to help
for the simple reason of not being organized to do so.

peacefrompaul

pandora wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I agree, though I wouldn't say better than many...maybe just "the same" as many.

The churches help others, it is their plan! Their missions!

Organizing aid, raising money, traveling outside their communities,
staying within helping locals in terrible need.

As the family here in GA caught in the smokey automobile pile up in FL recently.
Everyone killed in the car except for one child. Her whole family gone.
They were here on an expired visa from Brazil for over a decade.
Their church fought hard to have her stay here in the US and raised money for her injuries.

And the church groups who go to the ravaged tornado victims and stay for weeks to help.

There are countess efforts daily because of churches bringing people together
to feel others pain and to help them through crisis.

Churches are just people... good people working for their communities and fellow
members.

This what I meant, this how they do better than many who don't bother to help
for the simple reason of not being organized to do so.

This is the mission from my local church, "We are pursuing Christ's reign in all of life to advance God's kingdom in all the earth for His Glory." Their mission is to spread the word... Helping others comes with that but the main goal is to get people into the church. People in your church=more offerings=more money for the church because the bible says we're supposed to tithe. It's a business to me but I can't deny the good things that they do. They're not all bad guys that force me into it. I don't have to go if I don't want to.

pandora

peacefrompaul wrote:

pandora wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I agree, though I wouldn't say better than many...maybe just "the same" as many.

The churches help others, it is their plan! Their missions!

Organizing aid, raising money, traveling outside their communities,
staying within helping locals in terrible need.

As the family here in GA caught in the smokey automobile pile up in FL recently.
Everyone killed in the car except for one child. Her whole family gone.
They were here on an expired visa from Brazil for over a decade.
Their church fought hard to have her stay here in the US and raised money for her injuries.

And the church groups who go to the ravaged tornado victims and stay for weeks to help.

There are countess efforts daily because of churches bringing people together
to feel others pain and to help them through crisis.

Churches are just people... good people working for their communities and fellow
members.

This what I meant, this how they do better than many who don't bother to help
for the simple reason of not being organized to do so.

This is the mission from my local church, "We are pursuing Christ's reign in all of life to advance God's kingdom in all the earth for His Glory." Their mission is to spread the word... Helping others comes with that but the main goal is to get people into the church. People in your church=more offerings=more money for the church because the bible says we're supposed to tithe. It's a business to me but I can't deny the good things that they do. They're not all bad guys that force me into it. I don't have to go if I don't want to.

Yes I don't think we can deny the good that churches do and yes I agree with you,
it is a business.
They pay their bills in a wonderfully timely fashion from my experience,
the churches are our best customers. We are one small business thankful for theirs.

Cosmo

I am of the belief that the Church (i.e. Religion) is basically good... as long as they don't pass their beliefs as OUR laws. This goes for all religions and includes Atheism.
I personally don't care what you believe or what you don't believe... just don't tell the rest of us that your way is the right way. It may be the right way for you... but, you do not hold dominion over the rest of us. If folks were happy in their PERSONAL religions, we wouldn't have to deal with any of this my religion is better than your religion shit (which includes the absence of religion). People don't need to shout Biblical verse through a fucking bullhorn... read the Bible in the comfort of your own home. Try living by the Ten Commandments, instead of having to be reminded of what they are at every courthouse in the land.
...
Off topic fact: Easter Sunday is determined on being the First Sunday after the First Full Moon after the Vernal Equinox. Am I the only one that thinks that sounds more Pagan ritual date to celebrate the return of Spring and the planting season than the date on which a saviour rose from the dead?

Kathi

polaris_x wrote:

hedonist wrote:

I agree with this, polaris. The same thing is happening within our schools as well. Close the eyes, transfer them out, keep the blinders on.

But to paint the - any - whole group with one brush is absurd. That's what I was talking about.

yeah ... obviously not all catholics are bad people but the entity known as the catholic church is deplorable when it comes to human rights ...

in canada - we have same sex marriages because preventing them would go against our charter of human rights ... the catholic church would have us ban something that would go against that charter ... add reproductive rights, historical abuse charges, handling of molestation and you have an entity that is more concerned with maintaining a power over people than actually helping them ...

i honestly believe that if the catholic church ceased to exist - the world would be a better place ...

true. the pope and his being on the evening news almost every day play a huge part in why this country still does not have any kind of gay marriage regulation (not even a civil unions one), and he just recently slagged off a group of austrian priests who are campaigning for a more inclusive church. he's still condemning the use of condoms despite of AIDS rates in africa going up. an old men's club trying to tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies.
I could rage on and on about this. I have no problem with jesus and people believing if it helps them, but I have a big problem with how this institution is run.