gas prices

mace1229

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Weird seeing people complain about gas prices WHEN YOUR CARS ARE  HELPING FUCK UP THE PLANET.

Raise the prices. And make people cry in their stupid SUVs

As someone who went out of her way to arrange her life so she could live car free, I agree with this sentiment, specifically when the complainers are people who absolutely could use public transit if they simply chose to. But nooooo, they're addicted to their cars. I understand there are folks who have no option other than a car, but SO many of those whining about it don't actually have to drive.

Being car free is unrealistic for the average person. Most major cities build out, not up, so it’s too wide spread for really efficient public transit. Riding a city bus 30 or 40 miles that many people do because it’s too expensive to live closer to work would add hours to the commute. There would t be enough time in a day to take kids to practice, games, etc if you had to rely on the public system. 

It’s not bad if you’re going to a baseball game or bar hopping, but not very practical for family needs.

Thing is, once someone gets into the mindset that their cars are essential, they then use their cars when it’s not essential, and frankly—as the pandemic has taught us, obesity is a health crisis in the US—they’d be better off if they walked or biked to do some of their errands. 

For instance, the grocery stores, restaurants, places geared toward errand runners in general are no farther away from me where I live now than a lot of them were when I lived in Brooklyn (~10 or 15 minutes). And we walked to those places (and much farther!) when we lived in Brooklyn. I fell into the trap of driving to them for a while if I had an errand to run where I live now because that’s what everyone else does, but I started walking to them about a year ago. (If I’m feeling brave, I’ll ride my bike. But I’ve got kids, man. And I think it’s an underground Masshole motorsport to intimidate, injure, and kill cyclists.)

My wife lived in Brooklyn for several years and that’s what she misses, walking everywhere. But she was single and mid 20s.
here, we’re a family of 4 and the grocery store is almost 3 miles. Walking 5 to 6 miles round trip for groceries for 4 is unrealistic. Especially if you’re taking a 2 or 3 year old along.

I think what you mean to say is that it’s “less convenient”; it is in no way “unrealistic” to walk five or six miles for groceries for a family of four. People do it all the time all over the world. If you have a bike with a basket for carrying your groceries, you might find the drive takes longer than riding a bike, depending on traffic flows where you live. 

And unless I’m on single-parent duty, I would never willingly take a kid to the grocery store. That’s never a good time. 

To me it would be less convenient enough to be unrealistic. The high today is 20 and snowing.  The high tomorrow is 25. Yesterday was about 30. If I’m going to walk or bike to the store I’m not buying a week’s worth of groceries either. So I’d be going every 2 or 3 days at least. Sure people do it and it’s possible. But for me that’s unrealistic. Especially in the winter months when it’s already dark and well below the day’s high  by the time we get home from work. I’m not walking 5 miles in the dark and snow when it’s 15 degrees to buy enough groceries to last 2 days.
I rarely willingly takes kids to the grocery store either, but sometimes it’s unavoidable.

The Juggler

Why don't you get your groceries delivered?

mace1229

If I pay someone to deliver groceries, I don’t see how that’s saving gas. And it costs a lot more

dankind

Decent documentary from a while back.



The tech has been there and sound since 1979. I can think of at least three wars that probably wouldn't happen if the world weren't so dependent on fossil fuels.

Of course, on the plus side, I'm only about three blocks away from the beach, so I'll probably have beachfront property in my lifetime.

mace1229

dankind said:

Decent documentary from a while back.



The tech has been there and sound since 1979. I can think of at least three wars that probably wouldn't happen if the world weren't so dependent on fossil fuels.

Of course, on the plus side, I'm only about three blocks away from the beach, so I'll probably have beachfront property in my lifetime.

Can’t remember if I saw the whole thing or just parts, but definitely interesting and shocking.

The Juggler

mace1229 said:

If I pay someone to deliver groceries, I don’t see how that’s saving gas. And it costs a lot more

Saves you gas. 

dankind

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

If I pay someone to deliver groceries, I don’t see how that’s saving gas. And it costs a lot more

Saves you gas. 

Saves on gas consumption all around because your order is only one of multiple orders that the delivery driver has stashed in their vehicle.

mace1229

dankind said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

If I pay someone to deliver groceries, I don’t see how that’s saving gas. And it costs a lot more

Saves you gas. 

Saves on gas consumption all around because your order is only one of multiple orders that the delivery driver has stashed in their vehicle.

One, that’s kind of gross if I have raw chicken, ground beef and milk sitting in a car driving around for several deliveries. 

But if I shop at multiple stores, and I think many people do, that still doesn’t save gas. I buy dog food and certain items at Costco which is about half a mile down the street from from the grocery store. Which is in the same parking lot as my bank and next door to lowes. Rarely do I go to the grocery store and no where else. 

So I just don’t see a delivery service being practical or saving gas for the average person. 

The Juggler

Lol....there will always be an excuse I guess. 

dankind

I must not be an average person. 

The Juggler

dankind said:

I must not be an average person. 

We started getting groceries delivered two years ago and have continued. We're the most average people you've ever met!

dankind

The Juggler said:

dankind said:

I must not be an average person. 

We started getting groceries delivered two years ago and have continued. We're the most average people you've ever met!

We do get some groceries delivered, but we hardly ever go out for pet supplies.

We have found that Chewy and other delivery services/subscription services have been both cheaper and more convenient in that arena. Then again, we have a goddamn menagerie (two dogs, two cats, two guinea pigs, and two fish in separate aquariums). Maybe if you just have a single pet, the discounts aren't as great. And, of course, the shipping isn't free if your order is smaller. So it might not save the "average person" as much time and money. Not sure.

CROJAM95

Our relationship to oil is like a heroin addicts to the drug/dealer

Its all bullshit...they call it a market...yea for dummies

there was big push years ago to go electric, raise MPG's for manufacturers....then the worst thing happened, Prices went down

Pack to buying V8's & Sticking heads in the sand

Look it, its worse & will get worse 

mace1229

The Juggler said:

Lol....there will always be an excuse I guess. 

An excuse to not pay someone to delivery my groceries? Yeah, I have lots of excuses not to do that.

mace1229

dankind said:

The Juggler said:

dankind said:

I must not be an average person. 

We started getting groceries delivered two years ago and have continued. We're the most average people you've ever met!

We do get some groceries delivered, but we hardly ever go out for pet supplies.

We have found that Chewy and other delivery services/subscription services have been both cheaper and more convenient in that arena. Then again, we have a goddamn menagerie (two dogs, two cats, two guinea pigs, and two fish in separate aquariums). Maybe if you just have a single pet, the discounts aren't as great. And, of course, the shipping isn't free if your order is smaller. So it might not save the "average person" as much time and money. Not sure.

We signed up for Costco membership specifically for their dog food. It was better quality than most and a lot cheaper. Now with kids we get all their snacks and lunch ingredients there too, as well as random frozen foods and vegetables that are better quality than anywhere I see. Not everything is available for delivery last time I checked, but that was a while ago.

The Juggler

CROJAM95 said:

Our relationship to oil is like a heroin addicts to the drug/dealer

Its all bullshit...they call it a market...yea for dummies

there was big push years ago to go electric, raise MPG's for manufacturers....then the worst thing happened, Prices went down

Pack to buying V8's & Sticking heads in the sand

Look it, its worse & will get worse 

static111

dankind said:

The Juggler said:

mace1229 said:

If I pay someone to deliver groceries, I don’t see how that’s saving gas. And it costs a lot more

Saves you gas. 

Saves on gas consumption all around because your order is only one of multiple orders that the delivery driver has stashed in their vehicle.

Not necessarily, I used to deliver groceries a couple of years ago uber eats, instacart etc.. it might save the individual customer on fuel consumption, but at least in austin I don't think these services result in a net negative gas consumption. Sometimes you would get one batch and drive round trip 30 miles, and maybe you have three batches but they are all 20 miles from each other.  Those apps are inefficient in their routing,  

brianlux

mace1229 said:

brianlux said:

$5.49 a gallon here but no complaints from me.  When we go out, we schedule as many strands as possible in an out, so no going out again and again.  We never have had much of a commute and when I have lived in places where I could do so, I've taken buses, street cars, subway, rail, bicycle, and walked.  America's car culture needs to end anyway, so let's all get used to driving less!.

The one thing I would most like to see is the revitalization of railroads in America.  But are we doing that?  Sadly, no.  I just earlier today read this in the first 2022 quarterly of Steel Wheels, Magazine of the Western Passenger Train Coalition. a publication of RailPac (Rail Passenger Association of California and Nevada):

"Sooner or later someone will notice there are a lot of commuter trains running with very few seats occupied, and we are shoveling large amounts of money to agencies such as Metrolink and Caltrain simply to keep operations running.  Our friend Andrew Selden from Minnesota tells me that there is a serious chance that the Northstar commuter service into the Twin Cities may be permanently discontinued because patronage is so poor."
-Paul Dyson, RailPac Editor.

To put it bluntly, this is shameful.  Look at most of the rest of the world, particularly Europe.  They have extensive rail systems that are fast, safe, and efficient, and with plentiful ridership.  America that way, in comparison, looks like a country living in the dark ages.  That needs to change.  Let's get on board with supporting our rail systems!  Doing so would be a big improvement and take us into the 20th century... not to mention the 21 century!

But do other countries have the same housing grid and commute that we have? What I mean is, if you look at a city like LA, it’s way too expensive for most people to live in LA who work there. Many people drive 30-60 minutes just to get to work in all directions. I just can’t see a rail system that can cover that much ground and be effective.
When I’ve traveled more places resemble something like New York where it’s compact, things are in walking distance, you can live for months without ever being more than a few miles from your house.So a rail or bus system doesn’t need to be too complicated and wouldn’t take hours. 

But look at Southern California. People drive 60+ miles from the east in Riverside, drive 40 miles from the south from Orange, drive 60 miles from the north in Lancaster area and 20 miles from the west in Venice to get to their day job in LA. I can’t imagine how complicated that rail system would have to be. And with all the stop, how many hours would that take for the average person?
And it’s not just day jobs, it’s medical appointments, specialty shops, etc they have to travel for.
Many major cities have similar problems, San Diego, and as I’m sure you’re aware Sacramento, and so on.
One thing I haven’t seen much of when I traveled are big houses on 1/3 acre lots. We like our houses and our land, but it means it takes 4 times the area to build a community. Probably a lot more if you can build sky rises like NY.

Actually, RailPac is working diligently to increase commuter trains in the greater Los Angels area.  It makes perfect sense to do so!  Traffic there is insane and a lot of people do commute.  What better way to go than to increase rail service including light rail and connections with local buses?  Look at the greater Bay Area.  A lot of people commute using BART rail systems.  Sacramento has a fairly active light rail set up. 

The Bay area is also expanding rail and light rail including BART.  There are now plans to extend rail service from the Bay Area down to Monterey.  The increase in traffic in these areas is insane, so more rail service only makes good sense.  As gas prices continue to climb, it will make more good sense.

But these expansions are growing slowly in a time when extracting oil is becoming more costly.  Greater support for expanding rail is needed.

The same is true for moving freight.  Railroads can more more freight weight per unit of energy than any other form of transportation.   But instead of expanding rail systems, we have giant fleets of trucks that use far more fuel per cargo weight and tear up roads and highway at considerable expense (remembering as well that there is petroleum in asphalt, putting a greater strain on oil reserves). 

Expanding rail service in America is common sense.  There really is no viable argument against it.

I don't mean to come across as a know-it-all here and I don't claim to be a rail expert, but I have been a member of both RailPac and Rail Passengers Association (RPA, Formerly NARP) for several years and have followed these for quite a while.

tempo_n_groove

dankind said:

mace1229 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Weird seeing people complain about gas prices WHEN YOUR CARS ARE  HELPING FUCK UP THE PLANET.

Raise the prices. And make people cry in their stupid SUVs

As someone who went out of her way to arrange her life so she could live car free, I agree with this sentiment, specifically when the complainers are people who absolutely could use public transit if they simply chose to. But nooooo, they're addicted to their cars. I understand there are folks who have no option other than a car, but SO many of those whining about it don't actually have to drive.

Being car free is unrealistic for the average person. Most major cities build out, not up, so it’s too wide spread for really efficient public transit. Riding a city bus 30 or 40 miles that many people do because it’s too expensive to live closer to work would add hours to the commute. There would t be enough time in a day to take kids to practice, games, etc if you had to rely on the public system. 

It’s not bad if you’re going to a baseball game or bar hopping, but not very practical for family needs.

Thing is, once someone gets into the mindset that their cars are essential, they then use their cars when it’s not essential, and frankly—as the pandemic has taught us, obesity is a health crisis in the US—they’d be better off if they walked or biked to do some of their errands. 

For instance, the grocery stores, restaurants, places geared toward errand runners in general are no farther away from me where I live now than a lot of them were when I lived in Brooklyn (~10 or 15 minutes). And we walked to those places (and much farther!) when we lived in Brooklyn. I fell into the trap of driving to them for a while if I had an errand to run where I live now because that’s what everyone else does, but I started walking to them about a year ago. (If I’m feeling brave, I’ll ride my bike. But I’ve got kids, man. And I think it’s an underground Masshole motorsport to intimidate, injure, and kill cyclists.)

I'm sure you walked because of fear of losing a good parking spot?

mca47

I'm just glad I have a company car and don't have to buy gas!