NFL: Saints paid players to hurt foes
mysticweed
Posts: 3,710
BUSTED
up to $50,000 bounties
$1500 for a knockout
$1000 for a cart-off
i'll go out on a limb and say they aren't the only ones
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/New- ... NFL-030212
New Orleans Saints players and at least one assistant coach maintained a bounty program the last three seasons for inflicting game-ending injuries on opposing players, including Brett Favre and Kurt Warner — a pool that reached as much as $50,000 and paid specific amounts for ''cart-offs'' and ''knockouts,'' the NFL said Friday.
BOUNTY ON WARNER?
The former Cardinals QB was injured in a 2010 playoff game against the Saints.
The report said the pool amounts reached their height in 2009, the year the Saints won the Super Bowl.
The league said between 22 and 27 defensive players were involved in the program and that it was administered by defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, with the knowledge of coach Sean Payton.
Williams, who was hired in January as defensive coordinator by new Rams coach Jeff Fisher, released a statement through the Rams admitting guilt.
“I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson (Saints owner), and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the ‘pay for performance’ program while I was with the Saints," Williams' statement read. "It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again.”
No punishments have been handed out, but they could include suspension, fines and loss of draft picks. The league said the findings were corroborated by multiple, independent sources, in an investigation by the league's security department.
''The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for 'performance,' but also for injuring opposing players,'' Commissioner Roger Goodell said in a statement. ''The bounty rule promotes two key elements of NFL football: player safety and competitive integrity.''
Payoffs included $1,500 for a ''knockout'' and $1,000 for a ''cart-off,'' with payouts doubling or tripling during the playoffs.
''It is our responsibility to protect player safety and the integrity of our game, and this type of conduct will not be tolerated,'' Goodell said. ''We have made significant progress in changing the culture with respect to player safety and we are not going to relent. We have more work to do and we will do it.''
The league absolved Saints owner Tom Benson of any blame, but said the investigation showed Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis knew about the bounty program.
''Although head coach Sean Payton was not a direct participant in the funding or administration of the program, he was aware of the allegations, did not make any detailed inquiry or otherwise seek to learn the facts, and failed to stop the bounty program. He never instructed his assistant coaches or players that a bounty program was improper and could not continue,'' the NFL said.
When informed about it earlier this year, the NFL said Benson directed Loomis, to ''ensure that any bounty program be discontinued immediately.'' However, the NFL's report said the evidence showed Loomis did not carry out Benson's directions, and that in 2010 Loomis denied any knowledge of a bounty program.
''There is no evidence that Mr. Loomis took any effective action to stop these practices,'' the NFL said.
Benson responded to the NFL's report saying: ''I have been made aware of the NFL's findings relative to the 'Bounty Rule' and how it relates to our club. I have offered and the NFL has received our full cooperation in their investigation. While the findings may be troubling, we look forward to putting this behind us and winning more championships in the future for our fans.''
The NFL began its investigation in early 2010 after receiving allegations that quarterbacks Warner of Arizona and Favre of Minnesota had been targeted. After interviewing several Saints who denied the bounty program existed — and having the player who originally made the allegations recant — the league couldn't prove anything.
However, Goodell said the NFL ''recently received significant and credible new information and the investigation was re-opened during the latter part of the 2011 season.''
Favre's agent, Bus Cook, said he was unaware of the investigation until Friday. He said the Saints should have been penalized for several hard, late hits during the 2009 NFC championship game and that he believed the contact was not coincidental.
''It was pretty obvious that the intent was to take Brett out of the game, and it happened the week before with Kurt Warner, too,'' Cook said. ''I don't know anything about whether it was by design or whatever, but I think a lot of people shared that same viewpoint that there were some hits that didn't get called.''
Cook, however, said Favre never suggested to him he was maliciously targeted.
''That's part of football, getting hit,'' Cook said. ''Brett never complained to me one way or another.''
Responding to a fan's comment on Twitter that - even if the Saints had a bounty program - the playoff hit on Warner was clean, the former Cardinals quarterback messaged back, ''I would have to agree with you!!!''
The National Football League Players Association released a statement about the NFL's findings:
"Health and safety is a paramount issue to the NFLPA. The NFLPA was informed of this investigation by the NFL earlier today and will review the information contained in the league’s report."
up to $50,000 bounties
$1500 for a knockout
$1000 for a cart-off
i'll go out on a limb and say they aren't the only ones
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/New- ... NFL-030212
New Orleans Saints players and at least one assistant coach maintained a bounty program the last three seasons for inflicting game-ending injuries on opposing players, including Brett Favre and Kurt Warner — a pool that reached as much as $50,000 and paid specific amounts for ''cart-offs'' and ''knockouts,'' the NFL said Friday.
BOUNTY ON WARNER?
The former Cardinals QB was injured in a 2010 playoff game against the Saints.
The report said the pool amounts reached their height in 2009, the year the Saints won the Super Bowl.
The league said between 22 and 27 defensive players were involved in the program and that it was administered by defensive coordinator Gregg Williams, with the knowledge of coach Sean Payton.
Williams, who was hired in January as defensive coordinator by new Rams coach Jeff Fisher, released a statement through the Rams admitting guilt.
“I want to express my sincere regret and apology to the NFL, Mr. Benson (Saints owner), and the New Orleans Saints fans for my participation in the ‘pay for performance’ program while I was with the Saints," Williams' statement read. "It was a terrible mistake, and we knew it was wrong while we were doing it. Instead of getting caught up in it, I should have stopped it. I take full responsibility for my role. I am truly sorry. I have learned a hard lesson and I guarantee that I will never participate in or allow this kind of activity to happen again.”
No punishments have been handed out, but they could include suspension, fines and loss of draft picks. The league said the findings were corroborated by multiple, independent sources, in an investigation by the league's security department.
''The payments here are particularly troubling because they involved not just payments for 'performance,' but also for injuring opposing players,'' Commissioner Roger Goodell said in a statement. ''The bounty rule promotes two key elements of NFL football: player safety and competitive integrity.''
Payoffs included $1,500 for a ''knockout'' and $1,000 for a ''cart-off,'' with payouts doubling or tripling during the playoffs.
''It is our responsibility to protect player safety and the integrity of our game, and this type of conduct will not be tolerated,'' Goodell said. ''We have made significant progress in changing the culture with respect to player safety and we are not going to relent. We have more work to do and we will do it.''
The league absolved Saints owner Tom Benson of any blame, but said the investigation showed Payton and general manager Mickey Loomis knew about the bounty program.
''Although head coach Sean Payton was not a direct participant in the funding or administration of the program, he was aware of the allegations, did not make any detailed inquiry or otherwise seek to learn the facts, and failed to stop the bounty program. He never instructed his assistant coaches or players that a bounty program was improper and could not continue,'' the NFL said.
When informed about it earlier this year, the NFL said Benson directed Loomis, to ''ensure that any bounty program be discontinued immediately.'' However, the NFL's report said the evidence showed Loomis did not carry out Benson's directions, and that in 2010 Loomis denied any knowledge of a bounty program.
''There is no evidence that Mr. Loomis took any effective action to stop these practices,'' the NFL said.
Benson responded to the NFL's report saying: ''I have been made aware of the NFL's findings relative to the 'Bounty Rule' and how it relates to our club. I have offered and the NFL has received our full cooperation in their investigation. While the findings may be troubling, we look forward to putting this behind us and winning more championships in the future for our fans.''
The NFL began its investigation in early 2010 after receiving allegations that quarterbacks Warner of Arizona and Favre of Minnesota had been targeted. After interviewing several Saints who denied the bounty program existed — and having the player who originally made the allegations recant — the league couldn't prove anything.
However, Goodell said the NFL ''recently received significant and credible new information and the investigation was re-opened during the latter part of the 2011 season.''
Favre's agent, Bus Cook, said he was unaware of the investigation until Friday. He said the Saints should have been penalized for several hard, late hits during the 2009 NFC championship game and that he believed the contact was not coincidental.
''It was pretty obvious that the intent was to take Brett out of the game, and it happened the week before with Kurt Warner, too,'' Cook said. ''I don't know anything about whether it was by design or whatever, but I think a lot of people shared that same viewpoint that there were some hits that didn't get called.''
Cook, however, said Favre never suggested to him he was maliciously targeted.
''That's part of football, getting hit,'' Cook said. ''Brett never complained to me one way or another.''
Responding to a fan's comment on Twitter that - even if the Saints had a bounty program - the playoff hit on Warner was clean, the former Cardinals quarterback messaged back, ''I would have to agree with you!!!''
The National Football League Players Association released a statement about the NFL's findings:
"Health and safety is a paramount issue to the NFLPA. The NFLPA was informed of this investigation by the NFL earlier today and will review the information contained in the league’s report."
fuck 'em if they can't take a joke
"what a long, strange trip it's been"
"what a long, strange trip it's been"
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this kind of stuff has been happening since the beginning of the game.
oh it's a racket
i'm sure
"what a long, strange trip it's been"
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
4/28/16- Philly, PA
4/29/16- Philly, PA
5/1/16- NYC
5/2/16- NYC
9/2/18- Boston, MA
9/4/18- Boston, MA
9/14/22- Camden, NJ
9/7/24- Philly, PA
9/9/24- Philly, PA
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly, PA
RNDM- 3/9/16- Philly, PA
Fa-Fa-Fo-Hi, Ha!
I'm a Saints fan and bummed to hear this. More bummed that they couldn't figure out a way to work out a long contract for Brees, only the best player to ever put on a Saints uniform, bring them a Super Bowl, and a large reason the Saints are still in New Orleans.
The Saints should be punished for this and will be. My only beef will be when they are punished more harshly than Belichick and the Patriots were for Spygate. I love how Goodell cares so much about player safety but was still willing to discuss an 18 game season.
They should definitely not be punished more than the Pats but since the league has turned a blind eye to it forever and where the Pats stood at the time, they probably will be.
Yet no flags were thrown.
Goon-dock Saints
Yeah, that was the worst officiated game of football I've ever seen. I really would have been happy with either team winning and going to the Super Bowl, because I liked them both, but that was the only time in my life I ever watched a professional sporting event and known that the fix was in. And not because of that, but the refs essentially handing New Orleans the opportunity to win on several bad calls.
The Saints should and will be punished for the bounty, but I just can't agree with the bad calls handing the Saints the game. Of course, it can be said I'm a Saints fan so of course that's what I'm gonna say. Maybe. But I just never agree with the argument that calls cost a team the game. (I've said this in regards to teams I root for including the Saints, for what it's worth. There were some bad calls against the Saints in the 49ers playoff game this year, but the 49ers beat them bad mainly on defense and field position and deserved to win that game.) There are too many plays in a game where you could have executed to simplify it with bad calls. Just my two cents.
The game is notorious for it's blown calls, even amongst people who had no dog in the fight. Some people think it was some post-Katrina "this will make a great story" NFL conspiracy, I don't necessarily think that, but something wasn't on the up and up that night.
I'll have to watch it again, I've seen it a few times and didn't think so, but you know I had a dog in the fight. I follow football pretty closely and have not heard of it being a game notorious for blown calls, a la the Kings/Lakers playoff game in 2002 that I have heard quite a bit about (but which I would still argue the Kings could have helped themselves at other times to win the game.)
I still think I have point that the calls didn't decide the game because at the end all Favre had to do was run five yards (and he probably would have had more like ten with the room he had) to get them in field goal range to win it and instead he threw an interception, which goes back to my point about execution plays deciding games rather than made or missed calls.
I'm with you on not blaming refs for a loss. But to me it's different when it's overtime, and more than once the Saints series should have ended, but the refs just let them keep going. The day after the game I remember somebody on ESPN comparing it to the 1972 Olympic Basketball game between USA and Russia. This certainly isn't as notorious, but if you do a Google search of Vikings and Saints, you'll see tons of stuff about it. So it is pretty well known in that regard.
Even though I believe the Saints were sent to the Super Bowl by the refs, I will say that they won the Super Bowl fair and square and decidedly. I'm just not sure they should have been there.
I have the DVDs of the Saints playoff games for the Super Bowl run so I will watch it again. You know I respect your opinion, so I'll check it out. I am very defensive about anyone saying the Saints didn't belong in the Super Bowl because it was such a cathartic moment for me growing up there and was a feeling of absolute joy when they won first the NFC Championship Game and then the Super Bowl. I think the Championship Game more because it was at home. So I do admit my judgement might be clouded, but I'll check it out.
I've never said "They aren't really Super Bowl Champions" or anything like that, it has just always bothered me how they got there. I wasn't really pulling for either team. I've always liked The Saints, and as a Packers fan hated the Vikings, and when Favre went there I was mad at him. But by the time of the game my mindset was a little more forgiving, and while I wasn't really cheering for them I was sort of like "I won't mind if Favre goes out with a bang with Minnesota". So whoever won the game was going to be kind of a win/win in my mind, because I was somewhat supportive of both. I just hated the way the game turned out though. I may have been a little bit more for Minnesota because I thought NO's "let's hurt Favre" strategy was a little tacky, and as more calls started going towards NO it started to get under my skin, but that was more anger towards the refs.
I was not a fan of Williams saying how they were going to give Manning "remember me" hits in the Super Bowl. One, for the obvious classlessness of it and two really no good can come of it for the Saints. Just play the game and shut up.
It was mainly special teamers that could use the extra cash.
I don't understand the tackling mentality in football anymore. These dumbass defenders put their head down and take their eyes off the target putting themselves at just as much risk as the offensive player. How many times have we seen DB just go for a big hit instead of wrapping up, then the offensive player bounces off and gets a big gain. I believe it happened with Hakeem Nicks in the playoffs.
Wrap up dumbasses!!!!
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
Per Pro Football Talk.
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
I agree with everything you said. Really frustrating to be a Saints fan right now, more for the Brees debacle than the bounty though that is bad.
now, come on
i'm a girl and i know this shit has happened for like ever
hell, on the college and high school level, as well . . not for money maybe but the same intentions
"what a long, strange trip it's been"