Will somebody please explain to me the justification for landing a space craft on a comet? I'm not simply being a curmudgeon here, I really and truly just don't get it.
Listen up you old miser! Space exploration isn't no boondoggle, it's f'real science in it's purest form! No, really I don't know why they did it...I have seen the idea of mining comets and asteroids in science fiction, and of course there is that Bruce Willis movie about the arm-a-geddy-on... Maybe it was a practice run for Apophos! That makes sense in a kooky way, they redid their calculations and Apophos is set to collide with us so they are gonna land a craft on it and nudge it out of our path.
"Old miser", LOL!!
Yeah, I understand the concept that space exploration is pure science and I'm told many scientific advances are made through this work. My mother, whom I loved dearly, was a lab technologist and had a great interest in science and was a big fan the space program but not even she could convince me that most space programs are not a waste of money. Much of what is "discovered" by these programs are things that are inconsequential to ours and other animal life here on spaceship earth. We have such a massive array of problems on this planet that space exploration cannot solve- environmental issues, species die off, climate change/global warming, overpopulation, etc- and while billionaires prepare to make there vacation plans in outer space, the land bases that support our existence continue to fall to ruin. The huge amounts of money pumped into these programs would, it seems to me, be better spent solving these myriad problems here on earth.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Will somebody please explain to me the justification for landing a space craft on a comet? I'm not simply being a curmudgeon here, I really and truly just don't get it.
Listen up you old miser! Space exploration isn't no boondoggle, it's f'real science in it's purest form! No, really I don't know why they did it...I have seen the idea of mining comets and asteroids in science fiction, and of course there is that Bruce Willis movie about the arm-a-geddy-on... Maybe it was a practice run for Apophos! That makes sense in a kooky way, they redid their calculations and Apophos is set to collide with us so they are gonna land a craft on it and nudge it out of our path.
Space exploration makes a lot of sense to me. We've created an epidemic of environmental and human disasters here on Earth, and our planet doesn't have the resources to sustain us indefinitely. This to me suggests we're going to need to find somewhere new (or, as Hollywood might call it, 'the great universe-wide colonial expansionist movement'). The 'comet' isn't so relevant to me as the fact that we can land from long distances, autonomously and with great precision. That's a big deal. I'm guessing that of particular interest is probably the landing gear technology and/or software and the issues that arise based on the varying size/speed of the body it's landing on: with modern science, we can simulate a great deal which we can apply to R&D of technology like this, but there are still unexplained phenomena that can often only be found by (or wouldn't be thought of without) acting instead of dealing in hypotheticals, and witnessing the actual results.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
Will somebody please explain to me the justification for landing a space craft on a comet? I'm not simply being a curmudgeon here, I really and truly just don't get it.
Listen up you old miser! Space exploration isn't no boondoggle, it's f'real science in it's purest form! No, really I don't know why they did it...I have seen the idea of mining comets and asteroids in science fiction, and of course there is that Bruce Willis movie about the arm-a-geddy-on... Maybe it was a practice run for Apophos! That makes sense in a kooky way, they redid their calculations and Apophos is set to collide with us so they are gonna land a craft on it and nudge it out of our path.
Space exploration makes a lot of sense to me. We've created an epidemic of environmental and human disasters here on Earth, and our planet doesn't have the resources to sustain us indefinitely. This to me suggests we're going to need to find somewhere new (or, as Hollywood might call it, 'the great universe-wide colonial expansionist movement'). The 'comet' isn't so relevant to me as the fact that we can land from long distances, autonomously and with great precision. That's a big deal. I'm guessing that of particular interest is probably the landing gear technology and/or software and the issues that arise based on the varying size/speed of the body it's landing on: with modern science, we can simulate a great deal which we can apply to R&D of technology like this, but there are still unexplained phenomena that can often only be found by (or wouldn't be thought of without) acting instead of dealing in hypotheticals, and witnessing the actual results.
To echo Brian, wouldn't it be easier and make more sense to fix the problems we have here on this planet rather than just export the same problems to another world? Is it too late? With 10 billion people on the planet soon, maybe it is. And maybe there is no fixing humanity's nasty problems... Either way I support space exploration, if only for the single reason that it inspires children in a way that biochemistry can't (not that it should, but it does)
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
edited November 2014
Still not even close to convinced, friends. NASA lays claims to these inventions but did we really need to go to the moon to get there?
benjs, "we're going to need to find somewhere new"? Really? No offense intended here, but I wonder if you have been reading too many sci fi novels? This is just not going to happen.
By the way all, I know my opinions on this subject are not very popular. If I'm the lone soul who feels this way I'll willingly acquiesce to being booted off this thread with no hard feelings. :-)
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I'm not sure I want to sell anyone on it...but I do appreciate the inventions (and tweaks to the inventions of others) that happened because of the unique circumstances. Who knows if everyday life would've yielded the same?
I find space exploration humbling, in a way. If I felt like a speck considering myself in the scheme of life on earth, it's multiplied by the thousands when viewed against the universe.
Hell, the photo on the Binaural cover alone!
0
Options
hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
And Brian, popular thoughts can be overrated It's more about how any view is conveyed vs the view itself.
So speak your mind as you always do!
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
I'm not sure I want to sell anyone on it...but I do appreciate the inventions (and tweaks to the inventions of others) that happened because of the unique circumstances. Who knows if everyday life would've yielded the same?
I find space exploration humbling, in a way. If I felt like a speck considering myself in the scheme of life on earth, it's multiplied by the thousands when viewed against the universe.
Hell, the photo on the Binaural cover alone!
I was just a child when they released the Hubble photos, and thankfully, the only mag we got was Nat Geo... Those photos, including the Binaural cover, had a huge impact on me. The one with the 3 page spread of GALAXIES really made me consider the vastness of existence and the microscopic scale of what I thought was important. Suddenly, the scale of the universe was in my mind (such that a child can understand) and it brought me down to Earth somehow. I asked for a microscope and a telescope so I could explore both ends and it was then that I truly began to appreciate the woods and creeks through which I tromped as ecosystems as varied as the cosmos. That alone is enough to make me support cosmology, because it really sparked my interest in science.
Still not even close to convinced, friends. NASA lays claims to these inventions but did we really need to go to the moon to get there?
benjs, "we're going to need to find somewhere new"? Really? No offense intended here, but I wonder if you have been reading too many sci fi novels? This is just not going to happen.
By the way all, I know my opinions on this subject are not very popular. If I'm the lone soul who feels this way I'll willingly acquiesce to being booted off this thread with no hard feelings. :-)
Brian, it's always great to have differing opinions on here - it's what makes conversation worth having!
I don't take offence to what you've said, but yes, really. I don't believe it'll be out of 'desire to see the universe', but I do believe it'll be out of necessity for finding somewhere better. I believe we have depraved our home of its resources by exhibiting our typically human greed. And rgambs, unfortunately, I do believe we have passed the point of no return, and hope I'm wrong. For what it's worth, I don't believe that trying to fix our planet should preclude our space exploration, nor do I believe that our space exploration should preclude trying to fix our planet.
PS, I haven't read a sci-fi novel in ages.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Still not even close to convinced, friends. NASA lays claims to these inventions but did we really need to go to the moon to get there?
benjs, "we're going to need to find somewhere new"? Really? No offense intended here, but I wonder if you have been reading too many sci fi novels? This is just not going to happen.
By the way all, I know my opinions on this subject are not very popular. If I'm the lone soul who feels this way I'll willingly acquiesce to being booted off this thread with no hard feelings. :-)
Brian, it's always great to have differing opinions on here - it's what makes conversation worth having!
I don't take offence to what you've said, but yes, really. I don't believe it'll be out of 'desire to see the universe', but I do believe it'll be out of necessity for finding somewhere better. I believe we have depraved our home of its resources by exhibiting our typically human greed. And rgambs, unfortunately, I do believe we have passed the point of no return, and hope I'm wrong. For what it's worth, I don't believe that trying to fix our planet should preclude our space exploration, nor do I believe that our space exploration should preclude trying to fix our planet.
PS, I haven't read a sci-fi novel in ages.
I am afraid it's too late as well. Individually most of us grow and learn, but as a species we haven't progressed much without falling back to greed and war immediately. If you have the time for a new sci-fi novel, I recommend The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell. It is a very good story that is much deeper and more profound than most sci-fi. The plot is one of first contact, but the meat of it is the character development of a Jesuit Priest as the details of the contact mission unfold.
Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
Still not even close to convinced, friends. NASA lays claims to these inventions but did we really need to go to the moon to get there?
benjs, "we're going to need to find somewhere new"? Really? No offense intended here, but I wonder if you have been reading too many sci fi novels? This is just not going to happen.
By the way all, I know my opinions on this subject are not very popular. If I'm the lone soul who feels this way I'll willingly acquiesce to being booted off this thread with no hard feelings. :-)
Brian, it's always great to have differing opinions on here - it's what makes conversation worth having!
I don't take offence to what you've said, but yes, really. I don't believe it'll be out of 'desire to see the universe', but I do believe it'll be out of necessity for finding somewhere better. I believe we have depraved our home of its resources by exhibiting our typically human greed. And rgambs, unfortunately, I do believe we have passed the point of no return, and hope I'm wrong. For what it's worth, I don't believe that trying to fix our planet should preclude our space exploration, nor do I believe that our space exploration should preclude trying to fix our planet.
PS, I haven't read a sci-fi novel in ages.
Just kidding about the sci fi novels
But why would we want to continue to trash the one place we know is inhabitable by further polluting that place even more (the space industry is hugely polluting) while seeking some other place that is way beyond reaching with our limited technology? I mean, yeah, we could live under domes on mars but, really, is that preferable to living in the open on our lovely green and blue planet that has sustained us for thousands upon thousands of years? Wouldn't it make more sense to take care of our generous and , thus far, forgiving planet?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I'm not sure I want to sell anyone on it...but I do appreciate the inventions (and tweaks to the inventions of others) that happened because of the unique circumstances. Who knows if everyday life would've yielded the same?
I find space exploration humbling, in a way. If I felt like a speck considering myself in the scheme of life on earth, it's multiplied by the thousands when viewed against the universe.
Hell, the photo on the Binaural cover alone!
I was just a child when they released the Hubble photos, and thankfully, the only mag we got was Nat Geo... Those photos, including the Binaural cover, had a huge impact on me. The one with the 3 page spread of GALAXIES really made me consider the vastness of existence and the microscopic scale of what I thought was important. Suddenly, the scale of the universe was in my mind (such that a child can understand) and it brought me down to Earth somehow. I asked for a microscope and a telescope so I could explore both ends and it was then that I truly began to appreciate the woods and creeks through which I tromped as ecosystems as varied as the cosmos. That alone is enough to make me support cosmology, because it really sparked my interest in science.
Will somebody please explain to me the justification for landing a space craft on a comet? I'm not simply being a curmudgeon here, I really and truly just don't get it.
Will somebody please explain to me the justification for landing a space craft on a comet? I'm not simply being a curmudgeon here, I really and truly just don't get it.
Thanks for the link. It's interesting but doesn't change my feelings about this sort of thing. We have so many obstacles to the successful continuation of the experiment called "civilization" here on earth. Besides social and economic woes, we have massively serious ecological issues that are not be tended to well at all. Yet we spend billions of dollars to land a craft on a comet. This makes absolutely zero sense to me. People are dying, species are being wiped out, the planet is becoming inhospitable to large forms of animal life and this is how we spend our time and money? I'm truly and sincerely baffled by this.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Will somebody please explain to me the justification for landing a space craft on a comet? I'm not simply being a curmudgeon here, I really and truly just don't get it.
We have so many obstacles to the successful continuation of the experiment called "civilization" here on earth. Besides social and economic woes, we have massively serious ecological issues that are not be tended to well at all. Yet we spend billions of dollars to land a craft on a comet. This makes absolutely zero sense to me. People are dying, species are being wiped out, the planet is becoming inhospitable to large forms of animal life and this is how we spend our time and money? I'm truly and sincerely baffled by this.
Studying the origins of our universe will help us all. We do know that the sun has about 7billion years of gas left (give or take a few billion), once it dies so does earth.
Comets and other origins are readily available in space. Earth will become an inhospitable planet once our sun is gone. Because we as a people are evolved to survive maybe looking out into space for answers is not a bad query to make. No matter what we do on Earth eventually this planet will cease to exist.
Post edited by PJfanwillneverleave1 on
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
Will somebody please explain to me the justification for landing a space craft on a comet? I'm not simply being a curmudgeon here, I really and truly just don't get it.
We have so many obstacles to the successful continuation of the experiment called "civilization" here on earth. Besides social and economic woes, we have massively serious ecological issues that are not be tended to well at all. Yet we spend billions of dollars to land a craft on a comet. This makes absolutely zero sense to me. People are dying, species are being wiped out, the planet is becoming inhospitable to large forms of animal life and this is how we spend our time and money? I'm truly and sincerely baffled by this.
Studying the origins of our universe will help us all. We do know that the sun has about 7billion years of gas left (give or take a few billion), once it dies so does earth.
Comets and other origins are readily available in space. Earth will become an inhospitable planet once our sun is gone. Because we as a people are evolved to survive maybe looking out into space for answers is not a bad query to make. No matter what we do on Earth eventually this planet will cease to exist.
I guess I must be a true oddball. That concept not only does not disturb me, it is, in fact, somewhat pleasing in the way I see my own inevitable death- it's a part of a greater scheme which is the cyclical nature of things along with one of the great and unmovable laws of physics: entropy.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Will somebody please explain to me the justification for landing a space craft on a comet? I'm not simply being a curmudgeon here, I really and truly just don't get it.
We have so many obstacles to the successful continuation of the experiment called "civilization" here on earth. Besides social and economic woes, we have massively serious ecological issues that are not be tended to well at all. Yet we spend billions of dollars to land a craft on a comet. This makes absolutely zero sense to me. People are dying, species are being wiped out, the planet is becoming inhospitable to large forms of animal life and this is how we spend our time and money? I'm truly and sincerely baffled by this.
Studying the origins of our universe will help us all. We do know that the sun has about 7billion years of gas left (give or take a few billion), once it dies so does earth.
Comets and other origins are readily available in space. Earth will become an inhospitable planet once our sun is gone. Because we as a people are evolved to survive maybe looking out into space for answers is not a bad query to make. No matter what we do on Earth eventually this planet will cease to exist.
I guess I must be a true oddball. That concept not only does not disturb me, it is, in fact, somewhat pleasing in the way I see my own inevitable death- it's a part of a greater scheme which is the cyclical nature of things along with one of the great and unmovable laws of physics: entropy.
Brian,
If we believed in the inevitability of our own death so greatly, we'd have likely never sought after cures for any fatal disease, claiming our fifty-odd years on this life are a legitimate restriction, and part of a greater scheme not worth combatting. How are those examples of immense human effort to prolong our existence any different than space travel? If you had your druthers, would you have proposed we never look into cures for malaria and scurvy? Otherwise, I assume you must believe in a 'line' somewhere along the spectrum where seeking cures for diseases falls on one side (when it comes to prolonging our existence), while space exploration falls on the other. Would you help me understand why this line exists and where it resides?
At the end of the day, space exploration is about our willingness to 'play god' with the universe, and treat it as our playground, ripe for discovery, creation, and human-facilitated change. Do we deserve that power? I'm not sure. Who gets hurt? Think of the poor aliens on QH-472 (randomly generated small planet name) who used to be able to have seven Globindegorks for dinner each, but now the wretched humans have placed their poop on the fields and the Globindegorks are growing with spiked Phlethmians and are no longer edible.
Won't somebody think of the Globindegorks!?!?
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Will somebody please explain to me the justification for landing a space craft on a comet? I'm not simply being a curmudgeon here, I really and truly just don't get it.
We have so many obstacles to the successful continuation of the experiment called "civilization" here on earth. Besides social and economic woes, we have massively serious ecological issues that are not be tended to well at all. Yet we spend billions of dollars to land a craft on a comet. This makes absolutely zero sense to me. People are dying, species are being wiped out, the planet is becoming inhospitable to large forms of animal life and this is how we spend our time and money? I'm truly and sincerely baffled by this.
Studying the origins of our universe will help us all. We do know that the sun has about 7billion years of gas left (give or take a few billion), once it dies so does earth.
Comets and other origins are readily available in space. Earth will become an inhospitable planet once our sun is gone. Because we as a people are evolved to survive maybe looking out into space for answers is not a bad query to make. No matter what we do on Earth eventually this planet will cease to exist.
I guess I must be a true oddball. That concept not only does not disturb me, it is, in fact, somewhat pleasing in the way I see my own inevitable death- it's a part of a greater scheme which is the cyclical nature of things along with one of the great and unmovable laws of physics: entropy.
Brian,
If we believed in the inevitability of our own death so greatly, we'd have likely never sought after cures for any fatal disease, claiming our fifty-odd years on this life are a legitimate restriction, and part of a greater scheme not worth combatting. How are those examples of immense human effort to prolong our existence any different than space travel? If you had your druthers, would you have proposed we never look into cures for malaria and scurvy? Otherwise, I assume you must believe in a 'line' somewhere along the spectrum where seeking cures for diseases falls on one side (when it comes to prolonging our existence), while space exploration falls on the other. Would you help me understand why this line exists and where it resides?
At the end of the day, space exploration is about our willingness to 'play god' with the universe, and treat it as our playground, ripe for discovery, creation, and human-facilitated change. Do we deserve that power? I'm not sure. Who gets hurt? Think of the poor aliens on QH-472 (randomly generated small planet name) who used to be able to have seven Globindegorks for dinner each, but now the wretched humans have placed their poop on the fields and the Globindegorks are growing with spiked Phlethmians and are no longer edible.
Lyrics: Puffy lips, glistening skin And everything comes rushing in We don't go to hell, the memories of us do
I get a sense of connectedness Exclusive tight but nothing dangerous We don't go to hell, memories of us do, do
And if you go to hell, I'll still remember you, you
But I thought you beat the death of inevitability, to death, just a little bit I though you beat the inevitability of death, to death, just a little bit I though you beat the death of inevitability, to death, just a little bit I though you beat the inevitability of death, to death, just a little bit
Terry's gift is forever green It got me up and back on the scene We don't go to hell, just our memories do
Fantastic gap, common space Open concept in your smiling face We don't go to hell, the memories of us do
And if you go to hell I'll still remember you, you
I though you beat the death of inevitability, to death, just a little bit I though you beat the death of inevitability, to death just a little bit I though you beat beat the death of inevitability, to death just a little bit I though you beat the inevitability of death, to death just a little bit I though you beat the death of inevitability, to death just a little bit I though you beat the inevitability of death, to death just a little bit
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
Will somebody please explain to me the justification for landing a space craft on a comet? I'm not simply being a curmudgeon here, I really and truly just don't get it.
We have so many obstacles to the successful continuation of the experiment called "civilization" here on earth. Besides social and economic woes, we have massively serious ecological issues that are not be tended to well at all. Yet we spend billions of dollars to land a craft on a comet. This makes absolutely zero sense to me. People are dying, species are being wiped out, the planet is becoming inhospitable to large forms of animal life and this is how we spend our time and money? I'm truly and sincerely baffled by this.
Studying the origins of our universe will help us all. We do know that the sun has about 7billion years of gas left (give or take a few billion), once it dies so does earth.
Comets and other origins are readily available in space. Earth will become an inhospitable planet once our sun is gone. Because we as a people are evolved to survive maybe looking out into space for answers is not a bad query to make. No matter what we do on Earth eventually this planet will cease to exist.
I guess I must be a true oddball. That concept not only does not disturb me, it is, in fact, somewhat pleasing in the way I see my own inevitable death- it's a part of a greater scheme which is the cyclical nature of things along with one of the great and unmovable laws of physics: entropy.
Brian,
If we believed in the inevitability of our own death so greatly, we'd have likely never sought after cures for any fatal disease, claiming our fifty-odd years on this life are a legitimate restriction, and part of a greater scheme not worth combatting. How are those examples of immense human effort to prolong our existence any different than space travel? If you had your druthers, would you have proposed we never look into cures for malaria and scurvy? Otherwise, I assume you must believe in a 'line' somewhere along the spectrum where seeking cures for diseases falls on one side (when it comes to prolonging our existence), while space exploration falls on the other. Would you help me understand why this line exists and where it resides?
At the end of the day, space exploration is about our willingness to 'play god' with the universe, and treat it as our playground, ripe for discovery, creation, and human-facilitated change. Do we deserve that power? I'm not sure. Who gets hurt? Think of the poor aliens on QH-472 (randomly generated small planet name) who used to be able to have seven Globindegorks for dinner each, but now the wretched humans have placed their poop on the fields and the Globindegorks are growing with spiked Phlethmians and are no longer edible.
Won't somebody think of the Globindegorks!?!?
As far as curing disease, I think that's great to an extent. I'm more interested in preventing disease. Many of the diseases we have cured came about through good, useful science- the discovery of penicillin for example. But some of that science has worked against us- the use of antibiotics is becoming more and more questionable as viruses continue to mutate and become resistant to antibiotics (there's a ton of evidence and information out there on that). Also, many of the diseases we are dealing with today on an ever increasing basis- cancers, asthma, neurological disorders, to name a few) are directly related to pollutants in our food, air and water. We are generally more focused on and pour more funding into curing diseases than we are on finding ways to live cleaner and prevent disease. That is one of the great paradoxes of the industrial age.
There are some researchers out there who propose that are on the verge of developing nano technology to cure diseases. We are really not all that far off from being able to use tiny machines not only to cure diseases, but to replace malfunctioning parts of our bodies. The concept of cyborg- part human, part machine- is not far from becoming reality rather than simply science fiction. We could argue endlessly about the merits or detriments of being part machine. I generally avoid those kinds of arguments because I personally have no interest in being a machine. I would be willing to use mechanized devices to assist what ever there is of me that still works, but I do not have nor ever will integrate machinery into my bodily existence.
An even better argument for what I'm try to say here can be found in Bill McKibbens fine book, enough. I've often highly recommend that book- even to point of having a professor friend use it in one of his classes. You may not always agree with McKibben, but his ideas are worth checking out.
As far as playing god goes, we already have done enough of that. In doing great damage to our land bases and the planet as a whole, I think we have already proven we are a very irresponsible species when it comes to playing god. During the timber wars in the northwest when environmental activist were doing what we could to stop the logging of old growth forests, many of the pro-logging camp used to put bumper stickers on their trucks that read: "First we'll log the earth...then we'll go to other planets and log them too". I think those guys had it figured out. That's exactly what we would do. Fuck Mother Earth... then we'll find another planet and fuck her too. No thanks.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I see your point and have sympathy for it, brian. We very likely should be spending that money on a host of things that could improve the state of our planet and the lives of people already here and those to come. But I do think we would all lose an important source of inspiration if we no longer engaged in space exploration. Countless other kids and teens in addition to rgambs have found their creative spark from the images and information we have received from space exploration. I personally hope we do not, as a species, spread out into the universe - frankly, I don't think we deserve it, given what we've done to this planet - but I do want to learn about what's out there.
And I second the suggestion to check out The Sparrow, one of my favourite books. If you are put off by the idea that it is "science fiction", then it's an even better idea to check it out so you can see that there is a lot of good writing in the field of "speculative fiction" .
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
I see your point and have sympathy for it, brian. We very likely should be spending that money on a host of things that could improve the state of our planet and the lives of people already here and those to come. But I do think we would all lose an important source of inspiration if we no longer engaged in space exploration. Countless other kids and teens in addition to rgambs have found their creative spark from the images and information we have received from space exploration. I personally hope we do not, as a species, spread out into the universe - frankly, I don't think we deserve it, given what we've done to this planet - but I do want to learn about what's out there.
And I second the suggestion to check out The Sparrow, one of my favourite books. If you are put off by the idea that it is "science fiction", then it's an even better idea to check it out so you can see that there is a lot of good writing in the field of "speculative fiction" .
I won't rain on anybodies parade as far as finding inspiration from space exploration. To so so would be to spit on my mother's grave and I won't do that. I'll just do another thing she used to love to do- go out in the yard and lie on my back gaze into space and just take in that great big wonderful universe.
And yes, oftenreading, there are some truly great "science fiction" writers out there. It's not my favorite genre in general but there are books within it that definitely make my list of favorites. Just off the top of my head- books like Walter Tevis' The Man Who Fell to Earth and George R. Stewart's Earth Abides.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Laying back looking at the stars is a great pastime that hopefully gets passed on occasionally. It seems that not many youthful people (and a lot of adults) don't take the time to look up at night anymore and enjoy an immensely overpowering sight (I know it's a little ironic that I am on a computer at night typing about looking up at the stars).
Going to another planet/space exploration requires far more consciousness than the "humans" that are destroying this planet. That some of us look down upon our species as a burden on this planet surely lends to the fact that we will continue to evolve until us a species get it right and find a home that all of us can tend to and share with one another.
Laying back looking at the stars is a great pastime that hopefully gets passed on occasionally. It seems that not many youthful people (and a lot of adults) don't take the time to look up at night anymore and enjoy an immensely overpowering sight (I know it's a little ironic that I am on a computer at night typing about looking up at the stars).
Going to another planet/space exploration requires far more consciousness than the "humans" that are destroying this planet. That some of us look down upon our species as a burden on this planet surely lends to the fact that we will continue to evolve until us a species get it right and find a home that all of us can tend to and share with one another.
well said, this is true and those destroying the earth will be in big trouble too...but we will get it right...
Laying back looking at the stars is a great pastime that hopefully gets passed on occasionally. It seems that not many youthful people (and a lot of adults) don't take the time to look up at night anymore and enjoy an immensely overpowering sight (I know it's a little ironic that I am on a computer at night typing about looking up at the stars).
Going to another planet/space exploration requires far more consciousness than the "humans" that are destroying this planet. That some of us look down upon our species as a burden on this planet surely lends to the fact that we will continue to evolve until us a species get it right and find a home that all of us can tend to and share with one another.
this is true and those destroying the earth will be in big trouble too
If you mean that if the people destroying earth will be making life hard for themselves, yes
Laying back looking at the stars is a great pastime that hopefully gets passed on occasionally. It seems that not many youthful people (and a lot of adults) don't take the time to look up at night anymore and enjoy an immensely overpowering sight (I know it's a little ironic that I am on a computer at night typing about looking up at the stars).
Going to another planet/space exploration requires far more consciousness than the "humans" that are destroying this planet. That some of us look down upon our species as a burden on this planet surely lends to the fact that we will continue to evolve until us a species get it right and find a home that all of us can tend to and share with one another.
Nice post...tend to do the same with clouds (more accessible here these days!).
I'm positive I saw more stars as a kid than I do now - and I'm born, raised and living in LA. Maybe there are more lights on the ground now?
It's almost bittersweet, the excitement I get around this time of year when a handful of them are visible.
As professor Brian Cox says (Drakes Equation notwithstanding obviously).......
'We may well be unique in our Universe'......so we'd better start looking after it (Earth that is)'
Excuse the paraphrasing. :-)
0
Options
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,683
We humans are close to the middle sized object in the universe. The smallest object in the universe is the Planck length or 10 to the minus 35 power m. The known universe is about 10 to the 26 power m. The smallest object is about as many times smaller that we are as the know universe is as many times bigger than we are.
Dorky or profound?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
We humans are close to the middle sized object in the universe. The smallest object in the universe is the Planck length or 10 to the minus 35 power m. The known universe is about 10 to the 26 power m. The smallest object is about as many times smaller that we are as the know universe is as many times bigger than we are.
Dorky or profound?
It seems perfect to me, if I were to consider believing in creation, this would be one of the more convincing arguments. Much better than that eyeball intelligent design bullshit.
Comments
Yeah, I understand the concept that space exploration is pure science and I'm told many scientific advances are made through this work. My mother, whom I loved dearly, was a lab technologist and had a great interest in science and was a big fan the space program but not even she could convince me that most space programs are not a waste of money. Much of what is "discovered" by these programs are things that are inconsequential to ours and other animal life here on spaceship earth. We have such a massive array of problems on this planet that space exploration cannot solve- environmental issues, species die off, climate change/global warming, overpopulation, etc- and while billionaires prepare to make there vacation plans in outer space, the land bases that support our existence continue to fall to ruin. The huge amounts of money pumped into these programs would, it seems to me, be better spent solving these myriad problems here on earth.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/curiosity/topics/ten-nasa-inventions.htm
Is it too late? With 10 billion people on the planet soon, maybe it is. And maybe there is no fixing humanity's nasty problems... Either way I support space exploration, if only for the single reason that it inspires children in a way that biochemistry can't (not that it should, but it does)
benjs, "we're going to need to find somewhere new"? Really? No offense intended here, but I wonder if you have been reading too many sci fi novels? This is just not going to happen.
By the way all, I know my opinions on this subject are not very popular. If I'm the lone soul who feels this way I'll willingly acquiesce to being booted off this thread with no hard feelings. :-)
I find space exploration humbling, in a way. If I felt like a speck considering myself in the scheme of life on earth, it's multiplied by the thousands when viewed against the universe.
Hell, the photo on the Binaural cover alone!
So speak your mind as you always do!
I don't take offence to what you've said, but yes, really. I don't believe it'll be out of 'desire to see the universe', but I do believe it'll be out of necessity for finding somewhere better. I believe we have depraved our home of its resources by exhibiting our typically human greed. And rgambs, unfortunately, I do believe we have passed the point of no return, and hope I'm wrong. For what it's worth, I don't believe that trying to fix our planet should preclude our space exploration, nor do I believe that our space exploration should preclude trying to fix our planet.
PS, I haven't read a sci-fi novel in ages.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
If you have the time for a new sci-fi novel, I recommend The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell. It is a very good story that is much deeper and more profound than most sci-fi. The plot is one of first contact, but the meat of it is the character development of a Jesuit Priest as the details of the contact mission unfold.
But why would we want to continue to trash the one place we know is inhabitable by further polluting that place even more (the space industry is hugely polluting) while seeking some other place that is way beyond reaching with our limited technology? I mean, yeah, we could live under domes on mars but, really, is that preferable to living in the open on our lovely green and blue planet that has sustained us for thousands upon thousands of years? Wouldn't it make more sense to take care of our generous and , thus far, forgiving planet?
http://scaleofuniverse.com/
http://www.leaderpost.com/technology/What+next+after+comet+landing/10384194/story.html
Comets and other origins are readily available in space.
Earth will become an inhospitable planet once our sun is gone.
Because we as a people are evolved to survive maybe looking out into space for answers is not a bad query to make.
No matter what we do on Earth eventually this planet will cease to exist.
If we believed in the inevitability of our own death so greatly, we'd have likely never sought after cures for any fatal disease, claiming our fifty-odd years on this life are a legitimate restriction, and part of a greater scheme not worth combatting. How are those examples of immense human effort to prolong our existence any different than space travel? If you had your druthers, would you have proposed we never look into cures for malaria and scurvy? Otherwise, I assume you must believe in a 'line' somewhere along the spectrum where seeking cures for diseases falls on one side (when it comes to prolonging our existence), while space exploration falls on the other. Would you help me understand why this line exists and where it resides?
At the end of the day, space exploration is about our willingness to 'play god' with the universe, and treat it as our playground, ripe for discovery, creation, and human-facilitated change. Do we deserve that power? I'm not sure. Who gets hurt? Think of the poor aliens on QH-472 (randomly generated small planet name) who used to be able to have seven Globindegorks for dinner each, but now the wretched humans have placed their poop on the fields and the Globindegorks are growing with spiked Phlethmians and are no longer edible.
Won't somebody think of the Globindegorks!?!?
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Lyrics:
Puffy lips, glistening skin
And everything comes rushing in
We don't go to hell, the memories of us do
I get a sense of connectedness
Exclusive tight but nothing dangerous
We don't go to hell, memories of us do, do
And if you go to hell, I'll still remember you, you
But I thought you beat the death of inevitability, to death, just a little bit
I though you beat the inevitability of death, to death, just a little bit
I though you beat the death of inevitability, to death, just a little bit
I though you beat the inevitability of death, to death, just a little bit
Terry's gift is forever green
It got me up and back on the scene
We don't go to hell, just our memories do
Fantastic gap, common space
Open concept in your smiling face
We don't go to hell, the memories of us do
And if you go to hell I'll still remember you, you
I though you beat the death of inevitability, to death, just a little bit
I though you beat the death of inevitability, to death just a little bit
I though you beat beat the death of inevitability, to death just a little bit
I though you beat the inevitability of death, to death just a little bit
I though you beat the death of inevitability, to death just a little bit
I though you beat the inevitability of death, to death just a little bit
There are some researchers out there who propose that are on the verge of developing nano technology to cure diseases. We are really not all that far off from being able to use tiny machines not only to cure diseases, but to replace malfunctioning parts of our bodies. The concept of cyborg- part human, part machine- is not far from becoming reality rather than simply science fiction. We could argue endlessly about the merits or detriments of being part machine. I generally avoid those kinds of arguments because I personally have no interest in being a machine. I would be willing to use mechanized devices to assist what ever there is of me that still works, but I do not have nor ever will integrate machinery into my bodily existence.
An even better argument for what I'm try to say here can be found in Bill McKibbens fine book, enough. I've often highly recommend that book- even to point of having a professor friend use it in one of his classes. You may not always agree with McKibben, but his ideas are worth checking out.
As far as playing god goes, we already have done enough of that. In doing great damage to our land bases and the planet as a whole, I think we have already proven we are a very irresponsible species when it comes to playing god. During the timber wars in the northwest when environmental activist were doing what we could to stop the logging of old growth forests, many of the pro-logging camp used to put bumper stickers on their trucks that read: "First we'll log the earth...then we'll go to other planets and log them too". I think those guys had it figured out. That's exactly what we would do. Fuck Mother Earth... then we'll find another planet and fuck her too. No thanks.
And I second the suggestion to check out The Sparrow, one of my favourite books. If you are put off by the idea that it is "science fiction", then it's an even better idea to check it out so you can see that there is a lot of good writing in the field of "speculative fiction" .
And yes, oftenreading, there are some truly great "science fiction" writers out there. It's not my favorite genre in general but there are books within it that definitely make my list of favorites. Just off the top of my head- books like Walter Tevis' The Man Who Fell to Earth and George R. Stewart's Earth Abides.
Going to another planet/space exploration requires far more consciousness than the "humans" that are destroying this planet. That some of us look down upon our species as a burden on this planet surely lends to the fact that we will continue to evolve until us a species get it right and find a home that all of us can tend to and share with one another.
I'm positive I saw more stars as a kid than I do now - and I'm born, raised and living in LA. Maybe there are more lights on the ground now?
It's almost bittersweet, the excitement I get around this time of year when a handful of them are visible.
'We may well be unique in our Universe'......so we'd better start looking after it (Earth that is)'
Excuse the paraphrasing. :-)
Dorky or profound?