Forced ultrasound = state-sanctioned rape

bjo1015

inlet13 wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i hope that this issue is enough to get these people voted out of office.

these people claim to be doing this out of some sense of morality under the disguise of them being anti woman and even misogynistic.

this assault on women and their civil rights should have been stopped 50 years ago.


and i ask again....

HOW IS THIS RELATED TO JOBS AND THE ECONOMY????

Well, you asked...

We have an economy that has a debt/gdp level of over 100%. A major cause of our debt problem is social insurance programs - social security and medicare/medicaid. These are funded by the generation behind. Since the babyboom generation is extensively large (and the ones behind are small), these programs will go bankrupt soon. This is not only a strain on our debt (and our economy) through obvious functions, but also through interest payments (because interest rates rise with risk). Long story short, we don't have enough people to fund these programs, and the debt associated is creating economic problems, which is constraining job creation.

So, abortion, which obviously terminates a number of would be taxpayers (down the line) paying into programs like these, is a partial cause. Since the debt associated with these programs and our government in general effects jobs and the economy, this does too.

That's one way this is related to jobs and the economy. There are others.

• Forty-two percent of women obtaining abortions have incomes below 100% of the federal poverty level ($10,830 for a single woman with no children).[6]

• Twenty-seven percent of women obtaining abortions have incomes between 100–199% of the federal poverty level.* [6]

I understand your point, but based on these statistics (from guttmacher.org), I am guessing that a sizable amount of these unborn children would probably cost the taxpayers money, no?

_

CBC291417 wrote:

Kind of off the main topic but in response to a post about dads raising their kids.
If you think about it the “dad” doesn’t have to be around… I’m a woman who’s parents divorced and I always lived with my dad. In my late 20’s I married and became pregnant after a few years. At 3 months along my husband left. Now this relationship was not the most healthy so him leaving me was a good thing. But he has NEVER been a part of my son’s life. Most of my family/friends are fine with this. Myself, I worry about my son. It’s not right for me to think that because this man was not so nice to me that he cannot be a good father. It’s not right for me to think that he can NEVER change. For my son’s sake I was willing to give him a chance starting with supervised visitation. But as I have said above he has never seen his son who is now 4 years old.

So when it comes to dads being dads I have seen both sides of the coin. I have a wonderful father that raised me and is one of the most important relationships of my life. Then I deal with the daily heartbreak of “what is not having a father around going to do to my son?” It honestly brings me to tears. In fact this very morning while getting ready my son says “I’m going to write my dad a letter, mom how do you spell dear?” I never bad mouth his father or try to bring him up at all. But my son sees other kids and fathers and asks “where the heck is mine?” When he asks I try to change the subject to “well not all families are the same” but when he’s older I’ll have to be a bit more real on the subject. And it’s SOOO hard! All I can do is pray that not having a father around won’t make my son feel any less of a person, or that he was abandoned.

Sorry for the long story. Guess my point was sure it should be the two people raising or not raising this child but usually (not all the time) the father has an out when the mother doesn’t. And yes I know there are situations when the mother can abandon her family and the father raises the kids but in most situations this is not the case.

On to the main topic I don’t agree with woman having to go through this procedure. Why? TMI here but I have had an abortion. Yes I was much younger. At first I was going to have this baby. One day something just clicked and I made the decision I did. My boyfriend at the time was not going to be around and it just felt wrong. I learned that this was not his first go around and he definitely wanted the procedure done. That was by far the worst, most sad day of my life. It is something I will never get over. Not that I expected special treatment but when I was signing papers, healing afterwards, I was rushed to move so the next person could come in. All I could think is “does anyone realize what I have just done?? Can I have a moment to sit here in physical and mental pain and just cry?!” I walked out alone because the nurse couldn’t find my boyfriend. He was sleeping in the waiting room. Then he went out that night, asked me to come but for obvious reasons I didn’t. I honestly cannot express how sad this day was.
Now this was my experience and mine only so I can only speak for myself. If I was made to feel worse than I already did and made to go through more physical pain that was not necessary, well what is the point in that?? Fast forward 10 plus years and I am still in pain from this experience and KNOW that I could never go through it again.
I’m completely leaving out the women raped or women doing this for medical reasons… But my guess is that most women having an abortion have somewhat the same experience I did, hence why make them go through additional completely unnecessary pain?
Yeah yeah I guess someone will say I deserve all the paid I get necessary or not….

On another topic, using abortions as birth control… I know of 2 woman who have had multiple (3-4) abortions and that to me is extremely sad/unthinkable. So I can’t ignore that some woman may use this option TOO much. But at the same time I don’t think they are the majority.

Not something I like writing about But it's an opinion/side from someone who has gone through this…

Thanks very much for sharing your valuable experiences.

drinkbigredinstead

And so you also agree with the punching Republicans in the face before they can get blood pressure medication mandate?

You make it very difficult to take you seriously, I can almost see you stomping your feet and holding you breath. :roll:

From what I understand blood pressure medication helps saves lives, abortion ends one but if a punch in the face would be needed to obtain life saving medication I feel those punches should be across the board to Republicans, Democrats, Independents as well as every man, woman and child. :roll:

From what I've read there have already been changes made in regards to the type of ultrasound used...so the cheap use of the word rape may no longer be an option, however I feel your little tantrum will continue.

davidtrios

squirt wrote:

Educating women who are contemplating abortion should be what we want to do
an educational mandatory movie to be viewed prior to the abortion
showing ultrasound images heartbeat
This brings the same thoughtful educated choice without being physically
invasive I don't know if they do this already
The probe thing is over the top to even allow government to mandate
It really assumes a woman is heartless when having an abortion
for most woman is extremely emotionally devastating

you remind me of someone i know...what's your name?

_

drinkbigredinstead wrote:

And so you also agree with the punching Republicans in the face before they can get blood pressure medication mandate?

You make it very difficult to take you seriously, I can almost see you stomping your feet and holding you breath. :roll:

From what I understand blood pressure medication helps saves lives, abortion ends one but if a punch in the face would be needed to obtain life saving medication I feel those punches should be across the board to Republicans, Democrats, Independents as well as every man, woman and child. :roll:

From what I've read there have already been changes made in regards to the type of ultrasound used...so the cheap use of the word rape may no longer be an option, however I feel your little tantrum will continue.

:roll: You just don't get it. And you totally refused to address my point, opting instead for personal attacks - but that's to be expected from people who don't even care to understand the point.

drinkbigredinstead

_ wrote:

drinkbigredinstead wrote:

And so you also agree with the punching Republicans in the face before they can get blood pressure medication mandate?

You make it very difficult to take you seriously, I can almost see you stomping your feet and holding you breath. :roll:

From what I understand blood pressure medication helps saves lives, abortion ends one but if a punch in the face would be needed to obtain life saving medication I feel those punches should be across the board to Republicans, Democrats, Independents as well as every man, woman and child. :roll:

From what I've read there have already been changes made in regards to the type of ultrasound used...so the cheap use of the word rape may no longer be an option, however I feel your little tantrum will continue.

:roll: You just don't get it. And you totally refused to address my point, opting instead for personal attacks - but that's to be expected from people who don't even care to understand the point.

...said the pot calling the kettle black.

inlet13

drinkbigredinstead wrote:

You make it very difficult to take you seriously, I can almost see you stomping your feet and holding you breath. :roll:

....(cut)...

... however I feel your little tantrum will continue.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/ridicule-helped-doom-va-ultrasound-photo-130802135.html;_ylt=AlnCPcXWigQGQrXnhIxtE361qHQA;_ylu=X3oDMTRvMWNtYmtyBG1pdANBcnRpY2xlIFJlbGF0ZWQgQ2Fyb3VzZWwEcGtnAzRmZTU3YzY4LTRjZGUtM2MwNi05ODU4LWNiMDRlYjliOTgyNgRwb3MDMQRzZWMDTWVkaWFBcnRpY2xlUmVsYXRlZENhcm91c2VsVGVtcAR2ZXIDYmU2ZmQ4MTEtNWVlOC0xMWUxLTllZjUtYTJlNDQ4OTY1MTlj;_ylg=X3oDMTJwMTdnYzh1BGludGwDdXMEbGFuZwNlbi11cwRwc3RhaWQDNWE1YjAzNGMtNmFkNi0zNDczLTllMTAtNGE3OTkxZjY3ZWMxBHBzdGNhdAMEcHQDc3RvcnlwYWdlBHRlc3QD;_ylv=3

PJ_Soul

Re: is anything inserted in the vagina during an abortion without taking the ultrasound into consideration?

Yes, of course. That's how they get the fetus out...basically by sticking a vacuum attachment up there and sucking it out (sorry, but it's true). So it's really a good question. I mean, one thing's necessarily going up there, so what's the diff if it's two? .... of course, in the end the question is moot. It is ALWAYS a woman right to decide what is being done to her body.
Btw, this whole discussion relies on the supposition that women are really given a choice in the matter (I.e. refuse the ultrasound and leave the clinic or accept the ultrasound and get the abortion)... but as it is, the doctors don't ASK if they can do the ultrasound if they aren't sure of the age of the fetus. They just get you in there for the abortion, with the patient already doped up, and next thing you know they're doing an internal ultrasound. They don't allow the patient to make a decision there.

_

PJ_Soul3388 wrote:

Re: is anything inserted in the vagina during an abortion without taking the ultrasound into consideration?

Yes, of course. That's how they get the fetus out...basically by sticking a vacuum attachment up there and sucking it out (sorry, but it's true). So it's really a good question. I mean, one thing's necessarily going up there, so what's the diff if it's two? ....

Well, for one thing, one is considerably larger in diameter than the other.

PJ_Soul3388 wrote:

of course, in the end the question is moot. It is ALWAYS a woman right to decide what is being done to her body.
Btw, this whole discussion relies on the supposition that women are really given a choice in the matter... but as it is, the doctors don't ASK if they can do the ultrasound if they aren't sure of the age of the fetus. They just get you in there for the abortion, with the patient already doped up, and next thing you know they're doing an internal ultrasound. They don't allow the patient to make a decision there.

In my experience, patients can usually refuse the vaginal ultrasound.

Ultimately, though, the issue is whether it's the doctor's place (with the patient) or the government's place to decide the standard of care.

PJ_Soul

_ wrote:

PJ_Soul3388 wrote:

PJ_Soul3388 wrote:

of course, in the end the question is moot. It is ALWAYS a woman right to decide what is being done to her body.
Btw, this whole discussion relies on the supposition that women are really given a choice in the matter... but as it is, the doctors don't ASK if they can do the ultrasound if they aren't sure of the age of the fetus. They just get you in there for the abortion, with the patient already doped up, and next thing you know they're doing an internal ultrasound. They don't allow the patient to make a decision there.

In my experience, patients can usually refuse the vaginal ultrasound.

Ultimately, though, the issue is whether it's the doctor's place (with the patient) or the government's place to decide the standard of care.

Well, yes, they are allowed to refuse it. What I meant is that they are not generally put in a position where they feel able to refuse. In my experience, it's sprung on them while on the operating table, legs in stirrups, with an IV of dope stuck in their arm. To me, that's not giving her opportunity to accept or refuse at all.

_

PJ_Soul3388 wrote:

_ wrote:

PJ_Soul3388 wrote:

In my experience, patients can usually refuse the vaginal ultrasound.

Ultimately, though, the issue is whether it's the doctor's place (with the patient) or the government's place to decide the standard of care.

Well, yes, they are allowed to refuse it. What I meant is that they are not generally put in a position where they feel able to refuse. In my experience, it's sprung on them while on the operating table, legs in stirrups, with an IV of dope stuck in their arm. To me, that's not giving her opportunity to accept or refuse at all.

Yeah, I see your point. Here, we usually do it before the options counseling, they're not doped up yet.