ugh, guys it really doesn't matter what you drive. it has very little consequence.
if you really want to be green, don't have kids. a study by Oregon State U showed that by having a ONE kid you increase your carbon footprint by a factor of FORTY-TWO times!!!
(yes, i have a kid... but only one! lol)
on my Snapple lid the other week it said, "one tree supports a family of four with oxygen."
just thought i'd throw that in the family mix
yeah, i do care about little things and being responsible even with little things like walking instead of driving (which I do most of the time) and not driving a SUV unless absolutely necessary (i drive a little mazda 3). i was just sort of making a point that in the grand scheme of things, overpopulation is the problem.
i agree with you
overpopulation is a mess and killing us
we can't balance shit out when we have this many people
the point is approaching when it goes fucked... give it a handfull of more years of exponential growth, we have already topped out basically. we are in the no more kids zone already. we studied this shit in math class. in 20 years or less we are either gonna be healing up or we are gonna be ruined as a planet. if we keep having children at the current rate we are under, we are toast.
all im saying is, if one is very capable then do it. if you can't because of physically being unable too, then don't.
the other day i walked to the store to get milk. i walk with a cane. the store has to be about 3/4 of a mile away. i am sure the whole trip took me an hour. each step extremely painful. i could have drove.
i know 99.99% of the population walk better than i do. for a healthy youngman this store run should take 15 minutes to walk. sad fact is most would drive vs' walk.
Well, they are saying we are negative growth 1.9% children for "white" western world and if it hits that growth rate we do not repopulate.
On the other hand there are huge growths in other races/countries where there is not education and birth control for women.
By educating women there is a reverse in population growth, basically they are out enjoying careers and a life of freedom from traditional female family expectation roles. Japan is experiencing reverse population growth for the same similar reasons.
Anyway, stop sucking off the teat of gasoline (you are supporting the people and wars it causes) walk, take a bus, share a ride, ride a bike ....start demanding the use of more fuel efficient vehicles
shit, did you ever think it could possibly revamp auto industry? and put people back to work if we started sustainable technologies. (and not talking natural gas, either)
Unfortunately this means goodbye to your 6 gallon per mile 65 Mustang for now unless you retrofit it which may take another 5-10 years at current industry movement in the field.
Well, they are saying we are negative growth 1.9% children for "white" western world and if it hits that growth rate we do not repopulate.
On the other hand there are huge growths in other races/countries where there is not education and birth control for women.
By educating women there is a reverse in population growth, basically they are out enjoying careers and a life of freedom from traditional female family expectation roles. Japan is experiencing reverse population growth for the same similar reasons.
Anyway, stop sucking off the teat of gasoline (you are supporting the people and wars it causes) walk, take a bus, share a ride, ride a bike ....start demanding the use of more fuel efficient vehicles
shit, did you ever think it could possibly revamp auto industry? and put people back to work if we started sustainable technologies. (and not talking natural gas, either)
Unfortunately this means goodbye to your 6 gallon per mile 65 Mustang for now unless you retrofit it which may take another 5-10 years at current industry movement in the field.
ok this is probably going to come out wrong but here goes...
give me a car that doesn't use gas or oil with the same price, same gas mileage and same speed as the current oil and gas model and ill change. i like going 60-70 mph, i actually like to drive. i don't want to drive a car that only goes 50 mph. i hate being behind hybrids that have no pickup. does that make me a horrible human being? walking to work is not an option as it's too far, i don't live near anyone i work with since i work in a small company so not an option.
and yes we need someone to totally redo the auto industry BUT with the same conveniences and costs we currently have. only then will there be any kind of change away from gas and oil.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,429
Good points he still stand and SweetChildofMine. I've often said if our world population were reasonable we'd have far fewer environmental (not to mention political and religious) problems and conflicts.
We are spoiled in this nation- we pay too little for gas-- sorry, that's my belief. If we were smart we'd ration out gas or set up a system where we pay for gas on a sliding scale say at a rate for the average person $10- or give incentives to drive less and use public transit more we would learn to conserve more. Where are our walkable communities. Why aren't our railroads expanding?. And in any case we drive too much, consume too much and think it is our God-given/nation-given right. But those "rights" disappear quickly when our environment becomes hostile to us, when reality catches up to us, when nature bats last.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
"Try to not spook the horse."
-Neil Young
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,429
I know I'll sound like some stuck up yuppy saying this but I have a Prius. Years ago when I was unaware of some of these issues I had a '65 Malibu with a V8. My Prius has as much pick up as the Malibu did. I've never needed more pick up than my Prius can offer-- ever. A friend of mine who has a sports car once said, "You know it really bugs me when I see those guys in a Prius and they think that gives them the right to drive faster than everyone else." I agree with him.
Also, I'm not saying hybrids are the answer. Driving fewer miles, fewer trips and have fewer kids is the biggest part of the answer. But a hybrid is a good step in the right direction. People tell me, well fine but I can't afford a Prius. I say (in most cases) nonsense. All of the people who tell me that make more money than I do. For a start, I budget. And the reduction in my monthly gas usage over the life of that car (I'm looking at 20 years) will more than pay for that vehicle's cost- well more than.
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
You want to continually live with the twisted lie of oil barrons/wall street speculators go ahead.
Oil Execs under oath by Congress admitted that speculation adds $35+ to each barrel of oil. Please present the TRUTH. Plus now they are going to tell you you need the keystone pipeline and such because we have no fuel which is another lie. Stop falling for their BS.
On top of that you want a better world to live in at the same time your not willing to give up old habits and ideas about petroleum and/or the status symbol of your vehicle. You cant have both ways at this time.
I know a guy who retrofitted (rube goldberged, lol) his old truck with batteries. The "dirty hippie" he is (lol) ... but it CAN be done.
Needless to say...on top of that.. how tied is this into your life? Petroleum food additives, plastics, logistics, endless list... yadda yadda... Making moderate changes in your lifestyle helps at this time.
Dont get me on the soapbox saying you dont need all this shit. Cuz thats exactly what it is... shit.
Btw... no offense Godfather I didnt read your initial article starting this thread... lol I knew exactly what it was going to say.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,429
You want to continually live with the twisted lie of oil barrons/wall street speculators go ahead.
Oil Execs under oath by Congress admitted that speculation adds $35+ to each barrel of oil. Please present the TRUTH. Plus now they are going to tell you you need the keystone pipeline and such because we have no fuel which is another lie. Stop falling for their BS.
On top of that you want a better world to live in at the same time your not willing to give up old habits and ideas about petroleum and/or the status symbol of your vehicle. You cant have both ways at this time.
I know a guy who retrofitted (rube goldberged, lol) his old truck with batteries. The "dirty hippie" he is (lol) ... but it CAN be done.
Needless to say...on top of that.. how tied is this into your life? Petroleum food additives, plastics, logistics, endless list... yadda yadda... Making moderate changes in your lifestyle helps at this time.
Dont get me on the soapbox saying you dont need all this shit. Cuz thats exactly what it is... shit.
"I went back to the store
They gave me four more
The guy told me at the door
It's a PIECE OF CRAP!"
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!" -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
My guy has a 2010 Camaro - doesn't get the best mileage AT ALL - but his commute to work is maybe three miles (and a fun one at that).
My car is 15 years old; work and home are within a mile of eachother. Mileage again, not so great, but I don't drive all that much aside from daily errands and whatnot.
We fill up once a month or so.
So are we the bad guys because of our shitty mileage / fuel inefficiency?
Are we NOT, because of filling up less?
Filling up once a month is less than average. Even high mileage cars are inefficient with cold starts and short trips. I can't say enough about the benefits of riding a bike instead of commuting by car, and not just money wise. I know it can depend on where you live and physical abilities, but even just riding once a week helps, and then it snowballs from there to where you'll consider getting rid of one of your cars. You'll feel better and also feel more connected with your community and nature as you'll pay attention to the elements as well as see things you didn't before.
In a sense, we can all be labelled bad because we eat, shit, wear clothes and need a roof. I just depends where on the continuum of consumption you want to be.
iran cutting off supplies hurts them as much as anyone else. it makes no sense to voluntarily hurt your own economy to spite other nations. and iran supplies a very small percentage (i'd have to look up the actual number) of oil to us.
and the general american public, including myself, is not going to voluntarily change their oil and gas habits. fact is there isn't a much cheaper or more convenient alternative to the general american consumer at this point. until it becomes easier and more convenient we will be reliant on gas and oil.
We're still reliant on gas, but when the price goes up, the average number of miles driven drops. So people adjust their consumption somewhat.
You want to continually live with the twisted lie of oil barrons/wall street speculators go ahead.
Oil Execs under oath by Congress admitted that speculation adds $35+ to each barrel of oil. Please present the TRUTH. Plus now they are going to tell you you need the keystone pipeline and such because we have no fuel which is another lie. Stop falling for their BS.
On top of that you want a better world to live in at the same time your not willing to give up old habits and ideas about petroleum and/or the status symbol of your vehicle. You cant have both ways at this time.
I know a guy who retrofitted (rube goldberged, lol) his old truck with batteries. The "dirty hippie" he is (lol) ... but it CAN be done.
Needless to say...on top of that.. how tied is this into your life? Petroleum food additives, plastics, logistics, endless list... yadda yadda... Making moderate changes in your lifestyle helps at this time.
Dont get me on the soapbox saying you dont need all this shit. Cuz thats exactly what it is... shit.
"I went back to the store
They gave me four more
The guy told me at the door
It's a PIECE OF CRAP!"
When I walk into a store. Im like holy motherload of shit. Cuz thats what it is. Shit.
I mean how many eggxtrators or gyro bowls or bass-o-matics or pocket fishermans or some other piece of marketing shit does one really need?
You want to continually live with the twisted lie of oil barrons/wall street speculators go ahead.
Oil Execs under oath by Congress admitted that speculation adds $35+ to each barrel of oil. Please present the TRUTH. Plus now they are going to tell you you need the keystone pipeline and such because we have no fuel which is another lie. Stop falling for their BS.
On top of that you want a better world to live in at the same time your not willing to give up old habits and ideas about petroleum and/or the status symbol of your vehicle. You cant have both ways at this time.
I know a guy who retrofitted (rube goldberged, lol) his old truck with batteries. The "dirty hippie" he is (lol) ... but it CAN be done.
Needless to say...on top of that.. how tied is this into your life? Petroleum food additives, plastics, logistics, endless list... yadda yadda... Making moderate changes in your lifestyle helps at this time.
Dont get me on the soapbox saying you dont need all this shit. Cuz thats exactly what it is... shit.
"I went back to the store
They gave me four more
The guy told me at the door
It's a PIECE OF CRAP!"
When I walk into a store. Im like holy motherload of shit. Cuz thats what it is. Shit.
I mean how many eggxtrators or gyro bowls or bass-o-matics or pocket fishermans or some other piece of marketing shit does one really need?
That's just it. We all have our own toys and gadgets we like. I was just in REI ohhing and ahhing. Someone else might feel the same way about a Forever Lazy and a Slap Chop.
Yah, but your probably in REI oogling some quality product that you spend a lot of money on which will get some good use.
Difference of quality vs quantity.
Not unless your like thinking of buying 14 pairs of skis.
True. I'm kind of a long-range shopper. Like now I'm thinking about getting a cyclocross bike, which means in two years I'll eventually buy it. I suppose that keeps me away from the spontaneous purchase.
Yah, but your probably in REI oogling some quality product that you spend a lot of money on which will get some good use.
Difference of quality vs quantity.
Not unless your like thinking of buying 14 pairs of skis.
True. I'm kind of a long-range shopper. Like now I'm thinking about getting a cyclocross bike, which means in two years I'll eventually buy it. I suppose that keeps me away from the spontaneous purchase.
Well, right. For a quality purchase has a value upon the money you have or the time it took you to earn coupled with the fact its an item that also has high "value" or importance to your lifestyle.
But honestly, how many eggxtractors will be in tomorrows garage sales or thrift stores or even garbage bins vs something like your bike?
The one good thing about higher gas prices is that nothing forces people to step back and evaluate their fuel use quite the same as expensive gas. And that SUV sales drop drastically. If anything is good for the environment, it's these too things. It's just really sad that that's what it takes for a lot of people to be more conscious of their driving habits.
Oh, and Godfather, you know why I won't even open your OP link...
we all make choices ... we still do not pay the true cost of gas and that is not even based on the wars that are waged in the interests of oil ...
i have a car that has about 88,000 km and is 7 years old ... most of those km's is taking it on camping and road trips ... i've gone as long as 2 months without filling it up ...
it's all about our choices ...
but having come back again from the US ... i can understand why people complain - culture is just different down there ... people feel like they should be able to drive everywhere ... freely and cheaply ... there is not much infrastructure for anything else ...
The one good thing about higher gas prices is that nothing forces people to step back and evaluate their fuel use quite the same as expensive gas. And that SUV sales drop drastically. If anything is good for the environment, it's these too things. It's just really sad that that's what it takes for a lot of people to be more conscious of their driving habits.
Oh, and Godfather, you know why I won't even open your OP link...
Comments
overpopulation is a mess and killing us
we can't balance shit out when we have this many people
the point is approaching when it goes fucked... give it a handfull of more years of exponential growth, we have already topped out basically. we are in the no more kids zone already. we studied this shit in math class. in 20 years or less we are either gonna be healing up or we are gonna be ruined as a planet. if we keep having children at the current rate we are under, we are toast.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Well, good on ya, sir. I admire your will.
On the other hand there are huge growths in other races/countries where there is not education and birth control for women.
By educating women there is a reverse in population growth, basically they are out enjoying careers and a life of freedom from traditional female family expectation roles. Japan is experiencing reverse population growth for the same similar reasons.
Anyway, stop sucking off the teat of gasoline (you are supporting the people and wars it causes) walk, take a bus, share a ride, ride a bike ....start demanding the use of more fuel efficient vehicles
shit, did you ever think it could possibly revamp auto industry? and put people back to work if we started sustainable technologies. (and not talking natural gas, either)
Unfortunately this means goodbye to your 6 gallon per mile 65 Mustang for now unless you retrofit it which may take another 5-10 years at current industry movement in the field.
ok this is probably going to come out wrong but here goes...
give me a car that doesn't use gas or oil with the same price, same gas mileage and same speed as the current oil and gas model and ill change. i like going 60-70 mph, i actually like to drive. i don't want to drive a car that only goes 50 mph. i hate being behind hybrids that have no pickup. does that make me a horrible human being? walking to work is not an option as it's too far, i don't live near anyone i work with since i work in a small company so not an option.
and yes we need someone to totally redo the auto industry BUT with the same conveniences and costs we currently have. only then will there be any kind of change away from gas and oil.
We are spoiled in this nation- we pay too little for gas-- sorry, that's my belief. If we were smart we'd ration out gas or set up a system where we pay for gas on a sliding scale say at a rate for the average person $10- or give incentives to drive less and use public transit more we would learn to conserve more. Where are our walkable communities. Why aren't our railroads expanding?. And in any case we drive too much, consume too much and think it is our God-given/nation-given right. But those "rights" disappear quickly when our environment becomes hostile to us, when reality catches up to us, when nature bats last.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
I know I'll sound like some stuck up yuppy saying this but I have a Prius. Years ago when I was unaware of some of these issues I had a '65 Malibu with a V8. My Prius has as much pick up as the Malibu did. I've never needed more pick up than my Prius can offer-- ever. A friend of mine who has a sports car once said, "You know it really bugs me when I see those guys in a Prius and they think that gives them the right to drive faster than everyone else." I agree with him.
Also, I'm not saying hybrids are the answer. Driving fewer miles, fewer trips and have fewer kids is the biggest part of the answer. But a hybrid is a good step in the right direction. People tell me, well fine but I can't afford a Prius. I say (in most cases) nonsense. All of the people who tell me that make more money than I do. For a start, I budget. And the reduction in my monthly gas usage over the life of that car (I'm looking at 20 years) will more than pay for that vehicle's cost- well more than.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Oil Execs under oath by Congress admitted that speculation adds $35+ to each barrel of oil. Please present the TRUTH. Plus now they are going to tell you you need the keystone pipeline and such because we have no fuel which is another lie. Stop falling for their BS.
On top of that you want a better world to live in at the same time your not willing to give up old habits and ideas about petroleum and/or the status symbol of your vehicle. You cant have both ways at this time.
I know a guy who retrofitted (rube goldberged, lol) his old truck with batteries. The "dirty hippie" he is (lol) ... but it CAN be done.
Needless to say...on top of that.. how tied is this into your life? Petroleum food additives, plastics, logistics, endless list... yadda yadda... Making moderate changes in your lifestyle helps at this time.
Dont get me on the soapbox saying you dont need all this shit. Cuz thats exactly what it is... shit.
Btw... no offense Godfather I didnt read your initial article starting this thread... lol I knew exactly what it was going to say.
"I went back to the store
They gave me four more
The guy told me at the door
It's a PIECE OF CRAP!"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Filling up once a month is less than average. Even high mileage cars are inefficient with cold starts and short trips. I can't say enough about the benefits of riding a bike instead of commuting by car, and not just money wise. I know it can depend on where you live and physical abilities, but even just riding once a week helps, and then it snowballs from there to where you'll consider getting rid of one of your cars. You'll feel better and also feel more connected with your community and nature as you'll pay attention to the elements as well as see things you didn't before.
In a sense, we can all be labelled bad because we eat, shit, wear clothes and need a roof. I just depends where on the continuum of consumption you want to be.
We're still reliant on gas, but when the price goes up, the average number of miles driven drops. So people adjust their consumption somewhat.
When I walk into a store. Im like holy motherload of shit. Cuz thats what it is. Shit.
I mean how many eggxtrators or gyro bowls or bass-o-matics or pocket fishermans or some other piece of marketing shit does one really need?
That's just it. We all have our own toys and gadgets we like. I was just in REI ohhing and ahhing. Someone else might feel the same way about a Forever Lazy and a Slap Chop.
Difference of quality vs quantity.
Not unless your like thinking of buying 14 pairs of skis.
True. I'm kind of a long-range shopper. Like now I'm thinking about getting a cyclocross bike, which means in two years I'll eventually buy it. I suppose that keeps me away from the spontaneous purchase.
But honestly, how many eggxtractors will be in tomorrows garage sales or thrift stores or even garbage bins vs something like your bike?
Oh, and Godfather, you know why I won't even open your OP link...
i have a car that has about 88,000 km and is 7 years old ... most of those km's is taking it on camping and road trips ... i've gone as long as 2 months without filling it up ...
it's all about our choices ...
but having come back again from the US ... i can understand why people complain - culture is just different down there ... people feel like they should be able to drive everywhere ... freely and cheaply ... there is not much infrastructure for anything else ...
all is well my friend.
Godfather.
cool read,thanx !
Godfather.