U.S. plans for Iraq?

Cosmo

Jason P wrote:

You know that is out of the question until they can be trusted.

And yes, the US does let other countries impose their will upon us. Why do you think there is still a North Korea? And the US is constantly in a battle of wills with Russia ... why do you think Iran has a nuclear program?

...
I don't get your point here... about North Korea and Russia. How is North Korea and Russia telling you what to do... for them?
What I mean is something like this... It would be in China's best interest if they could set up manufacturing plants, here in the U.S., in order to cut the costs of shipping their goods to our Wal-Marts over here. It would be in their best interests if they used the Chinese model of manufacturing... with the low wages, heavy pollution, no workers rights in order to be able to produce goods at low costs.
Would we allow China to impose China's best interests on us... here? HELL NO, we wouldn't. Right?
...
So, why do we feel perfectly okay to impose what would be best interests... from our standpoint... on Iraq?

Drowned Out

Idris wrote:

(Thu Feb 9, 2012 )

Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC News


The Mujahedeen e-Khalq is being trained, armed, and funded by Israel to cary out terrorist attacks on Iran

Deadly attacks on Iranian nuclear scientists are being carried out by an Iranian dissident group that is financed, trained and armed by Israel’s secret service, U.S. officials tell NBC News, confirming charges leveled by Iran’s leaders.

http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/08/10354553-israel-teams-with-terror-group-to-kill-irans-nuclear-scientists-us-officials-tell-nbc-news
-
and of course we have the major push to get 'MEK' off the official Terrorist list. All according to plan. 'The System' at work.

:crazy:
How long before we're talking about how the 'my enemy's enemy' idea was a bad plan, and they turned on us because they hate us for our freedom?...the wheels on the bus go round and round.....

Jason P

Cosmo wrote:

Jason P wrote:

You know that is out of the question until they can be trusted.

And yes, the US does let other countries impose their will upon us. Why do you think there is still a North Korea? And the US is constantly in a battle of wills with Russia ... why do you think Iran has a nuclear program?

...
I don't get your point here... about North Korea and Russia. How is North Korea and Russia telling you what to do... for them?
What I mean is something like this... It would be in China's best interest if they could set up manufacturing plants, here in the U.S., in order to cut the costs of shipping their goods to our Wal-Marts over here. It would be in their best interests if they used the Chinese model of manufacturing... with the low wages, heavy pollution, no workers rights in order to be able to produce goods at low costs.
Would we allow China to impose China's best interests on us... here? HELL NO, we wouldn't. Right?
...
So, why do we feel perfectly okay to impose what would be best interests... from our standpoint... on Iraq?

In retrospect, I should have used Israel as a good example of a country that imposes its will upon the US. There is no way 80% of the posters on AMT can disagree with that. 8-)

Anyway, it's a moot point. How would it help the US in the eyes of the world if civil war breaks out? You say you are OK with that, but I call B.S. It's OK to say that since there isn't a civil war, but if the the US did leave and the country instantly tore itself to pieces, this thread would be 82 pages long right now full of anti-US comments.

Drowned Out

Jason P wrote:

You know that is out of the question until they can be trusted.

And yes, the US does let other countries impose their will upon us. Why do you think there is still a North Korea? And the US is constantly in a battle of wills with Russia ... why do you think Iran has a nuclear program?

When's the last time you were able to develop a trusting relationship with a woman, while fucking her friends, telling her who she can talk to, and abusing her? ALL relationships are two way. Give and take. The US is imposing their will in the middle east, thereby destroying any chance of a trusting relationship with any of these countries.

Jason P

Drowned Out wrote:

Jason P wrote:

You know that is out of the question until they can be trusted.

And yes, the US does let other countries impose their will upon us. Why do you think there is still a North Korea? And the US is constantly in a battle of wills with Russia ... why do you think Iran has a nuclear program?

When's the last time you were able to develop a trusting relationship with a woman, while fucking her friends, telling her who she can talk to, and abusing her? ALL relationships are two way. Give and take. The US is imposing their will in the middle east, thereby destroying any chance of a trusting relationship with any of these countries.

Trust not with the US, but within themselves. Once the suicide bombings and death squad executions come to a halt for an extended period of time, I say the US will scale back operations.

Now, all the Iraqi government has to do is to get two groups with different religious ideologies to see eye-to-eye and be at peace with each other. Seems simple.

So, how many more decades do you think the US will be there ...

Cosmo

Jason P wrote:

How would it help the US in the eyes of the world if civil war breaks out? You say you are OK with that, but I call B.S. It's OK to say that since there isn't a civil war, but if the the US did leave and the country instantly tore itself to pieces, this thread would be 82 pages long right now full of anti-US comments.

...
Now we're worried about what the eyes of the world care about? You misquoted me, i never said I'd be okaywith a Civil War breaking out. I said, "If they (Iraq) decide the path of Civil War... who's to say it hasn't always been in their cards for 100 years... except oppressive Sunni minorities such as Hussein and recent military actions and occupation of the US have been keeping them from duking it out. Maybe we're just sitting in a barrel of gun powder with a lit fuse and is going to blow up, no matter how hard we try to suppress it."
If a Civil War does breaks out in Iraq... that's Iraq's gig... it is on Iraq. Why is it OUR responsibility to keep our boot on their neck to keep them from fighting? What if England came over here in 1865 to keep us from killing each other... would we have turned out a better nation? We don't know, but we pretty much came through it all right.
Yes, there would be lots of opinions tossed around... but, YES, the major factor was the removal of the removal of Saddam Hussein and his brutal oppression of the majority Shi'ia in favor of the Sunni minority. So, the U.S. played a huge role in this thing... something that cannot be denied. The Shi'ite/Sunni aggression has been going on since the days after the prophet Mohammed died. Hussein was able to keep a lid on it... we were able to keep a lid on it. It does not mean it erases 1400 years of anomosity.

Drowned Out

Jason P wrote:

Trust not with the US, but within themselves. Once the suicide bombings and death squad executions come to a halt for an extended period of time, I say the US will scale back operations.

Now, all the Iraqi government has to do is to get two groups with different religious ideologies to see eye-to-eye and be at peace with each other. Seems simple.

So, how many more decades do you think the US will be there ...

Decades is prob right....but you seem to imply that the US cares about Iraqi security....I don't see it that way at all. I don't think suicide bombings and death squads have a thing to do with it. They are likely sticking around in a limited fashion only to protect their oil interests. They've got what they want (they being big oil)...a state owned oil company over which they have direct influence - as opposed to the privatised model the neocons were pushing, which likely would have pulled Iraq from OPEC, then led to increased production, lower oil prices, and lower profits.....so you're right, they probably aren't going anywhere any time soon....but not because they're there to promote democracy or security or anything but profit.

Jason P

Drowned Out wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Trust not with the US, but within themselves. Once the suicide bombings and death squad executions come to a halt for an extended period of time, I say the US will scale back operations.

Now, all the Iraqi government has to do is to get two groups with different religious ideologies to see eye-to-eye and be at peace with each other. Seems simple.

So, how many more decades do you think the US will be there ...

Decades is prob right....but you seem to imply that the US cares about Iraqi security....I don't see it that way at all. I don't think suicide bombings and death squads have a thing to do with it. They are likely sticking around in a limited fashion only to protect their oil interests. They've got what they want (they being big oil)...a state owned oil company over which they have direct influence - as opposed to the privatised model the neocons were pushing, which likely would have pulled Iraq from OPEC, then led to increased production, lower oil prices, and lower profits.....so you're right, they probably aren't going anywhere any time soon....but not because they're there to promote democracy or security or anything but profit.

Yes, they are sticking around to protect their oil interests and the best way is by helping to maintain civil peace. The more stable the country becomes, the less presence the US has to maintain.

They are also sticking around to keep enemies from moving in and asserting their presence. Those are two pretty big motivational factors.

And it's not just profit, it's power that is at stake. Oil is power. The entire world relies on it. Any superpower that just walks away from a position of power will soon find themselves further down the pecking order.

I'm being realistic about the current situation.

Idris

Jason P wrote:

Idris wrote:

This is not about Nukes, or "wiping Israel off the map" propaganda..It's not about peace, freedom or democracy. This is about expanding the U.S. empire and going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks.

Everything has to be tied back to the Jews ... let's take it a few more steps and link it to Kevin Bacon as well.

I say "going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks" and you say "Everything has to be tied back to the Jews".

Jason P

Idris wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Idris wrote:

This is not about Nukes, or "wiping Israel off the map" propaganda..It's not about peace, freedom or democracy. This is about expanding the U.S. empire and going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks.

Everything has to be tied back to the Jews ... let's take it a few more steps and link it to Kevin Bacon as well.

I say "going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks" and you say "Everything has to be tied back to the Jews".

from wiki:

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement

Idris

Jason P wrote:

from wiki:

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement

You said "Tied back to the Jews".

You seriously think that "Zionist banks" is a reference to the tribe of Judah? I mean, I don't know how much of the etymology you want to get into with me. But based on that post of yours and other posts by you here, I think I have an idea where it will end up going. A circle.

We can talk about Apartheid South Africa, Nazism, what do we equate them with? Now take a look at the Zionist movement/Banks/system..."tied back to the jews"...? No, rather tied (intent) back to all other racist, corrupt political movements etc, If you feel otherwise Then that is your own prerogative.

Obviously that's what's wanted. It's an easy out. " is a Jewish political movement". What a load..Zionism and it's affiliated groups etc are greedy/corrupt political movements/systems and is the cause/reason for many wars.

It's an insult to Judaism.
-

Zionism is not some "Jewish political movement", You need to really understand what it is, where it came from and how it relates to the banking system/Federal reserve, 3rd world countries, the state of Israel, world war 1 and 2 and now Iraq and Iran. Not just Zionism, it's just part of it.

You like making connections? So connect those.

Idris

Cosmo wrote:

Jason P wrote:

How would it help the US in the eyes of the world if civil war breaks out? You say you are OK with that, but I call B.S. It's OK to say that since there isn't a civil war, but if the the US did leave and the country instantly tore itself to pieces, this thread would be 82 pages long right now full of anti-US comments.

...
I said, "If they (Iraq) decide the path of Civil War... who's to say it hasn't always been in their cards for 100 years... except oppressive Sunni minorities such as Hussein and recent military actions and occupation of the US have been keeping them from duking it out. Maybe we're just sitting in a barrel of gun powder with a lit fuse and is going to blow up, no matter how hard we try to suppress it."
If a Civil War does breaks out in Iraq... that's Iraq's gig... it is on Iraq. Why is it OUR responsibility to keep our boot on their neck to keep them from fighting? What if England came over here in 1865 to keep us from killing each other... would we have turned out a better nation? We don't know, but we pretty much came through it all right.

Right on.

Reminds me of this story...
The British rule of India, when Gandhi was meeting with British leaders and asked them to leave India. They laughed at the Mahatma, they said things like "India will fall into problems, civil wars"..To which Gandhi said something along the lines of.."That May be, but they will Be OUR problems".

People need to walk whatever path they need to walk, it's not right to get in the way and block them. What will be, will be.

Jason P

Idris wrote:

It's an insult to Judaism.
-

Zionism is not some "Jewish political movement", You need to really understand what it is, where it came from and how it relates to the banking system/Federal reserve, 3rd world countries, the state of Israel, world war 1 and 2 and now Iraq and Iran. Not just Zionism, it's just part of it.

You like making connections? So connect those.

It's an insult to say America is a puppet to a Zionist movement.

It's human nature to make generalizations when it benefits our point of view.

Idris

Jason P wrote:

It's an insult to say America is a puppet to a Zionist movement.

It's human nature to make generalizations when it benefits our point of view.

1+1=2 is not a point of view. (Yes yes, what we are adding matters, variables do exist)

For far too long these oligarchs have drained the masses, polluting our minds. The kicker? We allow them this. almost like we are screaming "take our minds!"

I mean, does it not bother you that we were taught half truths and twisted historical reality in school?

Like I said before, learn about World War 1, 2..Learn about why these happened, where did the money come from? This horrific cycle of wars and killing. In the US since 1913 and the creation of the 3rd bank.That's when the US was officially sold out.

The Military industrial complex,lobbies...We have politicians backed by corporations etc...Naturally these Politicians will in turn be subservient to them, the ones who gave them the power.

In the US you want to get elected? Taken seriously? You need to speak with AIPAC...How does that make sense? You have our leaders talking about an undying, steadfast never waiver support for Israel. For what reason? Where did it come from? Why do we support it blindly?

Obama, Clinton, Bush..Same game different names.

Think about it man...Why? Where did this support come from? The players behind it? The wars connected to it...

Pretend you are not an American, now read and learn about what's going on in the world.

Don't get me wrong, Canada also..Puppet. Part of Our illusion is that we think we are different from the US or other countries. That's part of our hypocrisy. We are part of the System too. Plus we have a marshmallow for a Prime Minster.

brandon10

Idris wrote:

Jason P wrote:

It's an insult to say America is a puppet to a Zionist movement.

It's human nature to make generalizations when it benefits our point of view.

1+1=2 is not a point of view. (Yes yes, what we are adding matters, variables do exist)

For far too long these oligarchs have drained the masses, polluting our minds. The kicker? We allow them this. almost like we are screaming "take our minds!"

I mean, does it not bother you that we were taught half truths and twisted historical reality in school?

Like I said before, learn about World War 1, 2..Learn about why these happened, where did the money come from? This horrific cycle of wars and killing. In the US since 1913 and the creation of the 3rd bank.That's when the US was officially sold out.

The Military industrial complex,lobbies...We have politicians backed by corporations etc...Naturally these Politicians will in turn be subservient to them, the ones who gave them the power.

In the US you want to get elected? Taken seriously? You need to speak with AIPAC...How does that make sense? You have our leaders talking about an undying, steadfast never waiver support for Israel. For what reason? Where did it come from? Why do we support it blindly?

Obama, Clinton, Bush..Same game different names.

Think about it man...Why? Where did this support come from? The players behind it? The wars connected to it...

Pretend you are not an American, now read and learn about what's going on in the world.

Don't get me wrong, Canada also..Puppet. Part of Our illusion is that we think we are different from the US or other countries. That's part of our hypocrisy. We are part of the System too. Plus we have a marshmallow for a Prime Minster.

I just read a really nasty post in another thread that made me lose hope for humanity. Then I decided to look into this thread and stumbled upon this one. Hope is not all lost. Great post Idris!!!