Yes, Obama had to pull out troops before the 2012 campaign.
No, the US is not going to leave control to a weak government.
Yes, the US is going to leave forces in tact to preserve stability of both civil and monetary interests ... although we can't call them US military, cause that would hurt Obama in a few months. So he did the smart thing and is letting the CIA and contractors take over. Do you think it was coincidence that four-star general David Petraeus was appointed as CIA director by Obama?
The troops were just moved across the border to Kuwait. Hopefully they will no longer be needed, but anyone who thought the US was just going to up and leave has been smoking too much of the pipe weed.
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In other words... Iraq has no say in this situation.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
If you failed to see how Iranians supplying weapons to virtually every enemy our troops are currently engaged with, how the vacuum created by our politically motivated withdrawal from Iraq has allowed that free flow to increase to such countries as Syria (see 7000 dead), or how our coordinated cyber-warfare and assasination campaigns inside Iran constitutes a real war, then son, I just can't help you. .
That vacuum was part of the plan, as was explained to you in this thread.
I admitted that Iran is supplying weapons to your enemies, and I addressed that with my opinion on the matter.
I have not debated 'real war' with you at all, and never asked for any help. But thanks for the condescension.
Put down the Huffpo and the hippie lettuce, and get serious.
I wish you the best, but you're starting to creep... Foe button engaged.
I don't read huffpo....
hippie lettuce? get serious? more baiting.
Foe button engaged?..... we'll see. I guess to you, replying to your posts and not allowing your off-topic, patronizing comments to be the last word, constitutes 'abuse' and 'following people around'.
Speaking about funding groups and weapons Let's see how this goes.
- With a decision due within weeks by Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, former US four-star generals, intelligence chiefs, governors, and political heavyweights are calling for the US government to take the Mojahedin-e Khalq (MEK/MKO) off the terror list it shares with Al Qaeda and Hezbollah.
A high-powered array of former top American officials is advocating removal from the US terrorist list of a controversial Iranian opposition group with a long anti-American history.
During the Iraq war, U.S. troops disarmed the PMOI and posted guards at its bases. The U.S. military also protected and gave logistical support to the MEK as U.S. officials viewed the group as a high value source of intelligence on Iran. The PMOI is credited with revealing Iran's nuclear program in 2003 and alerting Americans to Iranian advancements in nuclear technology.
The same year that the French police raided the PMOI's properties in France (2003), Tehran attempted to negotiate with Washington. Iranian officials offered to withdraw military backing for Hamas and Hezbollah, and to give open access to their nuclear facilities in return for Western action in disbanding the PMOI, which was revealed by Newsnight, a BBC current affairs program, in 2007.
The BBC uncovered a letter written after the invasion of Iraq in 2003 where Tehran made this offer The proposition was done in a secret letter to Washington via Switzerland. According to the BBC, the U.S. State Department received the letter from the highest levels of the Iranian government.
According to Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff of Secretary of State Colin Powell, interviewed by the BBC, the State Department initially considered the offer, but it was ultimately rejected by the office of Vice President Dick Cheney.
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(Thu Feb 9, 2012 )
Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC News
The Mujahedeen e-Khalq is being trained, armed, and funded by Israel to cary out terrorist attacks on Iran
Deadly attacks on Iranian nuclear scientists are being carried out by an Iranian dissident group that is financed, trained and armed by Israel’s secret service, U.S. officials tell NBC News, confirming charges leveled by Iran’s leaders.
No, the US is not going to leave control to a weak government.
Yes, the US is going to leave forces in tact to preserve stability of both civil and monetary interests ... although we can't call them US military, cause that would hurt Obama in a few months. So he did the smart thing and is letting the CIA and contractors take over. Do you think it was coincidence that four-star general David Petraeus was appointed as CIA director by Obama?
The troops were just moved across the border to Kuwait. Hopefully they will no longer be needed.
The U.S will not leave control to any government that's not it's puppet. When a strong puppet government is established (as per the case of Iran in 1953 and the CIA Coup of Mossedeq) Then, and only then will the US feel alright leaving Iraq.
But you don't build a billion dollar embassy in the middle of a foreign country unless you plan on staying a long time Or have some really big plans, like keeping a known terrorist group (MEK) around and refusing Iran's 2003 offer to fully open it's nuclear facilities to the U.S...Then accuse the same Iranians of "secretive nuclear activities". This was all planned.
This is not about Nukes, or "wiping Israel off the map" propaganda..It's not about peace, freedom or democracy. This is about expanding the U.S. empire and going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks.
Like many wars of past, World War 2 (for example), the backbone of the U.S. was funding Hitler and the Nazis. Vietnam? The first Gulf war? etc. These are not random conflicts/wars. These are by and large calculated moves by the Oligarchs, the rulers, the elite fools, who do foolish things, playing with and destroying lives for their own greedy gain, Those are some of the people/groups where attention needs to be brought towards. Look who's pulling the strings.
and All this happens while the liberal intelligentsia/neo/super cons or whatever/whoever else continues to vote and help the War Machine. The Military Industrial Complex, The Federal Reserve. Perpetual War and conflict.
So what are the US plans for Iraq? Well Obama has NOT ended the Iraq war, he's just made it into a more 'secretive' war, a new era of war, a new phase of the war/wars.
The 'plutocracy' will end when our 'hypocrisy' does. We have our brains, information, resources, a vote, a voice.
Be a good idea to use them wisely, WW3 does not seem far away.
This is not about Nukes, or "wiping Israel off the map" propaganda..It's not about peace, freedom or democracy. This is about expanding the U.S. empire and going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks.
Everything has to be tied back to the Jews ... let's take it a few more steps and link it to Kevin Bacon as well.
The biggest problem Iraq faces in gaining stability is that the two main religious groups, Sunni and Shia, don't like each other to the point the have to convince themselves the other group isn't really Muslim so they can kill each other. I wonder if they believe each group is also linked to the Zionist movement as well?
The US is interested in preserving control of the Oil as well as the logistics of the country in relation to Iran. If they completely pull out, full scale civil war breaks out with the Shia getting a strong backing from Iran.
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In other words... Iraq has no say in this situation.
Not until they prove they have the country under control. My opinion on the situation matters not.
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I know that none of our opinions matter, regarding U.S. Foriegn Policy. I'm just pointing out the absurdity of our Foriegn Policy.
For instance... prove to whom? The U.S? Why? Because if we don't approve, we'll go back in for another round of ass kicking? Who's best interests matter here... theirs or ours? I was told that the reason why we went in there was to liberate them from an oppressive dictatorship, to give them Democracy to choose how they govern and live... yet, there are strings attached to their democracy. Main point being, they had better choose what WE think is best for THEM... or else.
It's not recent news that the Shi'ites of the Middle East are a minority in a Sunni dominated region. The Shi'ites have been split between Iran and Iraq. Saddam Hussein was oppressive to the Shi'ia majority in Iraq for several decades. His Sunni neighbors may not have approved of him in general, but, they knew he was a barrier to a greater Shi'ite presence in the larger picture. Given the right to choose... most people would surmize that the Shi'ite Majority in Iraq would elect Shi'ite leaders and give their majority a greater voice, than in the past. An Iraq/Iran alliance would provide a greater Shi'ite presence/influence in the region. Ironically, our (U.S.) involvement in Iraq ushered in this probable outcome by removing the greatest obstacle that was in place... the oppressive Sunni dictator, Saddam Hussein.
We pretty much are getting what we were asking for... because we went in there, with guns blazing, in Shock And Awe... to Spread Democracy. Maybe, we should have stepped back and thought a little harder about the probable outcomes instead of hoping for the ever so slight possibility that Iraq would end up looking more like Nebraska. We really shoulda known.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Ironically, our (U.S.) involvement in Iraq ushered in this probable outcome by removing the greatest obstacle that was in place... the oppressive Sunni dictator, Saddam Hussein.
We pretty much are getting what we were asking for... because we went in there, with guns blazing, in Shock And Awe... to Spread Democracy. Maybe, we should have stepped back and thought a little harder about the probable outcomes instead of hoping for the ever so slight possibility that Iraq would end up looking more like Nebraska. We really shoulda known.
Yup, we took out the one fucker that was crazy enough to keep them in line. But Pandora's box has been opened, so what now?
Ironically, our (U.S.) involvement in Iraq ushered in this probable outcome by removing the greatest obstacle that was in place... the oppressive Sunni dictator, Saddam Hussein.
We pretty much are getting what we were asking for... because we went in there, with guns blazing, in Shock And Awe... to Spread Democracy. Maybe, we should have stepped back and thought a little harder about the probable outcomes instead of hoping for the ever so slight possibility that Iraq would end up looking more like Nebraska. We really shoulda known.
Yup, we took out the one fucker that was crazy enough to keep them in line. But Pandora's box has been opened, so what now?
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What can we do? Let THEM decide their future.
If they decide the path of Civil War... who's to say it hasn't always been in their cards for 100 years... except oppressive Sunni minorities such as Hussein and recent military actions and occupation of the US have been keeping them from duking it out. Maybe we're just sitting in a barrel of gun powder with a lit fuse and is going to blow up, no matter how hard we try to suppress it.
If they decide that a Shi'ite Bloc with Iran is in their best interests for greater bargaining power of the Middle Eastern oil... shouldn't THEY get to decide, not us? It's THEIR home... it's THEIR oil, not ours.
Yeah... their decisions may not be in our best interests, but do we allow other nations to impose their bests interest on us?
If we claim to be the beacon of Democracy and Freedom... yet, we impose our will upon them... what does that say about us?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
[
What can we do? Let THEM decide their future.
If they decide the path of Civil War... who's to say it hasn't always been in their cards for 100 years... except oppressive Sunni minorities such as Hussein and recent military actions and occupation of the US have been keeping them from duking it out. Maybe we're just sitting in a barrel of gun powder with a lit fuse and is going to blow up, no matter how hard we try to suppress it.
If they decide that a Shi'ite Bloc with Iran is in their best interests for greater bargaining power of the Middle Eastern oil... shouldn't THEY get to decide, not us? It's THEIR home... it's THEIR oil, not ours.
Yeah... their decisions may not be in our best interests, but do we allow other nations to impose their bests interest on us?
If we claim to be the beacon of Democracy and Freedom... yet, we impose our will upon them... what does that say about us?
You know that is out of the question until they can be trusted.
And yes, the US does let other countries impose their will upon us. Why do you think there is still a North Korea? And the US is constantly in a battle of wills with Russia ... why do you think Iran has a nuclear program?
You know that is out of the question until they can be trusted.
And yes, the US does let other countries impose their will upon us. Why do you think there is still a North Korea? And the US is constantly in a battle of wills with Russia ... why do you think Iran has a nuclear program?
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I don't get your point here... about North Korea and Russia. How is North Korea and Russia telling you what to do... for them?
What I mean is something like this... It would be in China's best interest if they could set up manufacturing plants, here in the U.S., in order to cut the costs of shipping their goods to our Wal-Marts over here. It would be in their best interests if they used the Chinese model of manufacturing... with the low wages, heavy pollution, no workers rights in order to be able to produce goods at low costs.
Would we allow China to impose China's best interests on us... here? HELL NO, we wouldn't. Right?
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So, why do we feel perfectly okay to impose what would be best interests... from our standpoint... on Iraq?
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC News
The Mujahedeen e-Khalq is being trained, armed, and funded by Israel to cary out terrorist attacks on Iran
Deadly attacks on Iranian nuclear scientists are being carried out by an Iranian dissident group that is financed, trained and armed by Israel’s secret service, U.S. officials tell NBC News, confirming charges leveled by Iran’s leaders.
:crazy:
How long before we're talking about how the 'my enemy's enemy' idea was a bad plan, and they turned on us because they hate us for our freedom?...the wheels on the bus go round and round.....
You know that is out of the question until they can be trusted.
And yes, the US does let other countries impose their will upon us. Why do you think there is still a North Korea? And the US is constantly in a battle of wills with Russia ... why do you think Iran has a nuclear program?
...
I don't get your point here... about North Korea and Russia. How is North Korea and Russia telling you what to do... for them?
What I mean is something like this... It would be in China's best interest if they could set up manufacturing plants, here in the U.S., in order to cut the costs of shipping their goods to our Wal-Marts over here. It would be in their best interests if they used the Chinese model of manufacturing... with the low wages, heavy pollution, no workers rights in order to be able to produce goods at low costs.
Would we allow China to impose China's best interests on us... here? HELL NO, we wouldn't. Right?
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So, why do we feel perfectly okay to impose what would be best interests... from our standpoint... on Iraq?
In retrospect, I should have used Israel as a good example of a country that imposes its will upon the US. There is no way 80% of the posters on AMT can disagree with that.
Anyway, it's a moot point. How would it help the US in the eyes of the world if civil war breaks out? You say you are OK with that, but I call B.S. It's OK to say that since there isn't a civil war, but if the the US did leave and the country instantly tore itself to pieces, this thread would be 82 pages long right now full of anti-US comments.
You know that is out of the question until they can be trusted.
And yes, the US does let other countries impose their will upon us. Why do you think there is still a North Korea? And the US is constantly in a battle of wills with Russia ... why do you think Iran has a nuclear program?
When's the last time you were able to develop a trusting relationship with a woman, while fucking her friends, telling her who she can talk to, and abusing her? ALL relationships are two way. Give and take. The US is imposing their will in the middle east, thereby destroying any chance of a trusting relationship with any of these countries.
You know that is out of the question until they can be trusted.
And yes, the US does let other countries impose their will upon us. Why do you think there is still a North Korea? And the US is constantly in a battle of wills with Russia ... why do you think Iran has a nuclear program?
When's the last time you were able to develop a trusting relationship with a woman, while fucking her friends, telling her who she can talk to, and abusing her? ALL relationships are two way. Give and take. The US is imposing their will in the middle east, thereby destroying any chance of a trusting relationship with any of these countries.
Trust not with the US, but within themselves. Once the suicide bombings and death squad executions come to a halt for an extended period of time, I say the US will scale back operations.
Now, all the Iraqi government has to do is to get two groups with different religious ideologies to see eye-to-eye and be at peace with each other. Seems simple.
So, how many more decades do you think the US will be there ...
How would it help the US in the eyes of the world if civil war breaks out? You say you are OK with that, but I call B.S. It's OK to say that since there isn't a civil war, but if the the US did leave and the country instantly tore itself to pieces, this thread would be 82 pages long right now full of anti-US comments.
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Now we're worried about what the eyes of the world care about? You misquoted me, i never said I'd be okaywith a Civil War breaking out. I said, "If they (Iraq) decide the path of Civil War... who's to say it hasn't always been in their cards for 100 years... except oppressive Sunni minorities such as Hussein and recent military actions and occupation of the US have been keeping them from duking it out. Maybe we're just sitting in a barrel of gun powder with a lit fuse and is going to blow up, no matter how hard we try to suppress it."
If a Civil War does breaks out in Iraq... that's Iraq's gig... it is on Iraq. Why is it OUR responsibility to keep our boot on their neck to keep them from fighting? What if England came over here in 1865 to keep us from killing each other... would we have turned out a better nation? We don't know, but we pretty much came through it all right.
Yes, there would be lots of opinions tossed around... but, YES, the major factor was the removal of the removal of Saddam Hussein and his brutal oppression of the majority Shi'ia in favor of the Sunni minority. So, the U.S. played a huge role in this thing... something that cannot be denied. The Shi'ite/Sunni aggression has been going on since the days after the prophet Mohammed died. Hussein was able to keep a lid on it... we were able to keep a lid on it. It does not mean it erases 1400 years of anomosity.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Trust not with the US, but within themselves. Once the suicide bombings and death squad executions come to a halt for an extended period of time, I say the US will scale back operations.
Now, all the Iraqi government has to do is to get two groups with different religious ideologies to see eye-to-eye and be at peace with each other. Seems simple.
So, how many more decades do you think the US will be there ...
Decades is prob right....but you seem to imply that the US cares about Iraqi security....I don't see it that way at all. I don't think suicide bombings and death squads have a thing to do with it. They are likely sticking around in a limited fashion only to protect their oil interests. They've got what they want (they being big oil)...a state owned oil company over which they have direct influence - as opposed to the privatised model the neocons were pushing, which likely would have pulled Iraq from OPEC, then led to increased production, lower oil prices, and lower profits.....so you're right, they probably aren't going anywhere any time soon....but not because they're there to promote democracy or security or anything but profit.
Trust not with the US, but within themselves. Once the suicide bombings and death squad executions come to a halt for an extended period of time, I say the US will scale back operations.
Now, all the Iraqi government has to do is to get two groups with different religious ideologies to see eye-to-eye and be at peace with each other. Seems simple.
So, how many more decades do you think the US will be there ...
Decades is prob right....but you seem to imply that the US cares about Iraqi security....I don't see it that way at all. I don't think suicide bombings and death squads have a thing to do with it. They are likely sticking around in a limited fashion only to protect their oil interests. They've got what they want (they being big oil)...a state owned oil company over which they have direct influence - as opposed to the privatised model the neocons were pushing, which likely would have pulled Iraq from OPEC, then led to increased production, lower oil prices, and lower profits.....so you're right, they probably aren't going anywhere any time soon....but not because they're there to promote democracy or security or anything but profit.
Yes, they are sticking around to protect their oil interests and the best way is by helping to maintain civil peace. The more stable the country becomes, the less presence the US has to maintain.
They are also sticking around to keep enemies from moving in and asserting their presence. Those are two pretty big motivational factors.
And it's not just profit, it's power that is at stake. Oil is power. The entire world relies on it. Any superpower that just walks away from a position of power will soon find themselves further down the pecking order.
This is not about Nukes, or "wiping Israel off the map" propaganda..It's not about peace, freedom or democracy. This is about expanding the U.S. empire and going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks.
Everything has to be tied back to the Jews ... let's take it a few more steps and link it to Kevin Bacon as well.
I say "going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks" and you say "Everything has to be tied back to the Jews".
This is not about Nukes, or "wiping Israel off the map" propaganda..It's not about peace, freedom or democracy. This is about expanding the U.S. empire and going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks.
Everything has to be tied back to the Jews ... let's take it a few more steps and link it to Kevin Bacon as well.
I say "going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks" and you say "Everything has to be tied back to the Jews".
from wiki:
Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement
Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement
You said "Tied back to the Jews".
You seriously think that "Zionist banks" is a reference to the tribe of Judah? I mean, I don't know how much of the etymology you want to get into with me. But based on that post of yours and other posts by you here, I think I have an idea where it will end up going. A circle.
We can talk about Apartheid South Africa, Nazism, what do we equate them with? Now take a look at the Zionist movement/Banks/system..."tied back to the jews"...? No, rather tied (intent) back to all other racist, corrupt political movements etc, If you feel otherwise Then that is your own prerogative.
Obviously that's what's wanted. It's an easy out. " is a Jewish political movement". What a load..Zionism and it's affiliated groups etc are greedy/corrupt political movements/systems and is the cause/reason for many wars.
It's an insult to Judaism.
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Zionism is not some "Jewish political movement", You need to really understand what it is, where it came from and how it relates to the banking system/Federal reserve, 3rd world countries, the state of Israel, world war 1 and 2 and now Iraq and Iran. Not just Zionism, it's just part of it.
How would it help the US in the eyes of the world if civil war breaks out? You say you are OK with that, but I call B.S. It's OK to say that since there isn't a civil war, but if the the US did leave and the country instantly tore itself to pieces, this thread would be 82 pages long right now full of anti-US comments.
...
I said, "If they (Iraq) decide the path of Civil War... who's to say it hasn't always been in their cards for 100 years... except oppressive Sunni minorities such as Hussein and recent military actions and occupation of the US have been keeping them from duking it out. Maybe we're just sitting in a barrel of gun powder with a lit fuse and is going to blow up, no matter how hard we try to suppress it."
If a Civil War does breaks out in Iraq... that's Iraq's gig... it is on Iraq. Why is it OUR responsibility to keep our boot on their neck to keep them from fighting? What if England came over here in 1865 to keep us from killing each other... would we have turned out a better nation? We don't know, but we pretty much came through it all right.
Right on.
Reminds me of this story...
The British rule of India, when Gandhi was meeting with British leaders and asked them to leave India. They laughed at the Mahatma, they said things like "India will fall into problems, civil wars"..To which Gandhi said something along the lines of.."That May be, but they will Be OUR problems".
People need to walk whatever path they need to walk, it's not right to get in the way and block them. What will be, will be.
Zionism is not some "Jewish political movement", You need to really understand what it is, where it came from and how it relates to the banking system/Federal reserve, 3rd world countries, the state of Israel, world war 1 and 2 and now Iraq and Iran. Not just Zionism, it's just part of it.
You like making connections? So connect those.
It's an insult to say America is a puppet to a Zionist movement.
It's human nature to make generalizations when it benefits our point of view.
It's an insult to say America is a puppet to a Zionist movement.
It's human nature to make generalizations when it benefits our point of view.
1+1=2 is not a point of view. (Yes yes, what we are adding matters, variables do exist)
For far too long these oligarchs have drained the masses, polluting our minds. The kicker? We allow them this. almost like we are screaming "take our minds!"
I mean, does it not bother you that we were taught half truths and twisted historical reality in school?
Like I said before, learn about World War 1, 2..Learn about why these happened, where did the money come from? This horrific cycle of wars and killing. In the US since 1913 and the creation of the 3rd bank.That's when the US was officially sold out.
The Military industrial complex,lobbies...We have politicians backed by corporations etc...Naturally these Politicians will in turn be subservient to them, the ones who gave them the power.
In the US you want to get elected? Taken seriously? You need to speak with AIPAC...How does that make sense? You have our leaders talking about an undying, steadfast never waiver support for Israel. For what reason? Where did it come from? Why do we support it blindly?
Obama, Clinton, Bush..Same game different names.
Think about it man...Why? Where did this support come from? The players behind it? The wars connected to it...
Pretend you are not an American, now read and learn about what's going on in the world.
Don't get me wrong, Canada also..Puppet. Part of Our illusion is that we think we are different from the US or other countries. That's part of our hypocrisy. We are part of the System too. Plus we have a marshmallow for a Prime Minster.
It's an insult to say America is a puppet to a Zionist movement.
It's human nature to make generalizations when it benefits our point of view.
1+1=2 is not a point of view. (Yes yes, what we are adding matters, variables do exist)
For far too long these oligarchs have drained the masses, polluting our minds. The kicker? We allow them this. almost like we are screaming "take our minds!"
I mean, does it not bother you that we were taught half truths and twisted historical reality in school?
Like I said before, learn about World War 1, 2..Learn about why these happened, where did the money come from? This horrific cycle of wars and killing. In the US since 1913 and the creation of the 3rd bank.That's when the US was officially sold out.
The Military industrial complex,lobbies...We have politicians backed by corporations etc...Naturally these Politicians will in turn be subservient to them, the ones who gave them the power.
In the US you want to get elected? Taken seriously? You need to speak with AIPAC...How does that make sense? You have our leaders talking about an undying, steadfast never waiver support for Israel. For what reason? Where did it come from? Why do we support it blindly?
Obama, Clinton, Bush..Same game different names.
Think about it man...Why? Where did this support come from? The players behind it? The wars connected to it...
Pretend you are not an American, now read and learn about what's going on in the world.
Don't get me wrong, Canada also..Puppet. Part of Our illusion is that we think we are different from the US or other countries. That's part of our hypocrisy. We are part of the System too. Plus we have a marshmallow for a Prime Minster.
I just read a really nasty post in another thread that made me lose hope for humanity. Then I decided to look into this thread and stumbled upon this one. Hope is not all lost. Great post Idris!!!
Comments
In other words... Iraq has no say in this situation.
Hail, Hail!!!
That vacuum was part of the plan, as was explained to you in this thread.
I admitted that Iran is supplying weapons to your enemies, and I addressed that with my opinion on the matter.
I have not debated 'real war' with you at all, and never asked for any help. But thanks for the condescension.
I don't read huffpo....
hippie lettuce? get serious? more baiting.
Foe button engaged?.....
(Thu Feb 9, 2012 )
Israel teams with terror group to kill Iran's nuclear scientists, U.S. officials tell NBC News
The Mujahedeen e-Khalq is being trained, armed, and funded by Israel to cary out terrorist attacks on Iran
Deadly attacks on Iranian nuclear scientists are being carried out by an Iranian dissident group that is financed, trained and armed by Israel’s secret service, U.S. officials tell NBC News, confirming charges leveled by Iran’s leaders.
http://rockcenter.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/02/08/10354553-israel-teams-with-terror-group-to-kill-irans-nuclear-scientists-us-officials-tell-nbc-news
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and of course we have the major push to get 'MEK' off the official Terrorist list. All according to plan. 'The System' at work.
The U.S will not leave control to any government that's not it's puppet. When a strong puppet government is established (as per the case of Iran in 1953 and the CIA Coup of Mossedeq) Then, and only then will the US feel alright leaving Iraq.
But you don't build a billion dollar embassy in the middle of a foreign country unless you plan on staying a long time Or have some really big plans, like keeping a known terrorist group (MEK) around and refusing Iran's 2003 offer to fully open it's nuclear facilities to the U.S...Then accuse the same Iranians of "secretive nuclear activities". This was all planned.
This is not about Nukes, or "wiping Israel off the map" propaganda..It's not about peace, freedom or democracy. This is about expanding the U.S. empire and going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks.
Like many wars of past, World War 2 (for example), the backbone of the U.S. was funding Hitler and the Nazis. Vietnam? The first Gulf war? etc. These are not random conflicts/wars. These are by and large calculated moves by the Oligarchs, the rulers, the elite fools, who do foolish things, playing with and destroying lives for their own greedy gain, Those are some of the people/groups where attention needs to be brought towards. Look who's pulling the strings.
and All this happens while the liberal intelligentsia/neo/super cons or whatever/whoever else continues to vote and help the War Machine. The Military Industrial Complex, The Federal Reserve. Perpetual War and conflict.
So what are the US plans for Iraq? Well Obama has NOT ended the Iraq war, he's just made it into a more 'secretive' war, a new era of war, a new phase of the war/wars.
The 'plutocracy' will end when our 'hypocrisy' does. We have our brains, information, resources, a vote, a voice.
Be a good idea to use them wisely, WW3 does not seem far away.
Everything has to be tied back to the Jews ... let's take it a few more steps and link it to Kevin Bacon as well.
The biggest problem Iraq faces in gaining stability is that the two main religious groups, Sunni and Shia, don't like each other to the point the have to convince themselves the other group isn't really Muslim so they can kill each other. I wonder if they believe each group is also linked to the Zionist movement as well?
The US is interested in preserving control of the Oil as well as the logistics of the country in relation to Iran. If they completely pull out, full scale civil war breaks out with the Shia getting a strong backing from Iran.
I know that none of our opinions matter, regarding U.S. Foriegn Policy. I'm just pointing out the absurdity of our Foriegn Policy.
For instance... prove to whom? The U.S? Why? Because if we don't approve, we'll go back in for another round of ass kicking? Who's best interests matter here... theirs or ours? I was told that the reason why we went in there was to liberate them from an oppressive dictatorship, to give them Democracy to choose how they govern and live... yet, there are strings attached to their democracy. Main point being, they had better choose what WE think is best for THEM... or else.
It's not recent news that the Shi'ites of the Middle East are a minority in a Sunni dominated region. The Shi'ites have been split between Iran and Iraq. Saddam Hussein was oppressive to the Shi'ia majority in Iraq for several decades. His Sunni neighbors may not have approved of him in general, but, they knew he was a barrier to a greater Shi'ite presence in the larger picture. Given the right to choose... most people would surmize that the Shi'ite Majority in Iraq would elect Shi'ite leaders and give their majority a greater voice, than in the past. An Iraq/Iran alliance would provide a greater Shi'ite presence/influence in the region. Ironically, our (U.S.) involvement in Iraq ushered in this probable outcome by removing the greatest obstacle that was in place... the oppressive Sunni dictator, Saddam Hussein.
We pretty much are getting what we were asking for... because we went in there, with guns blazing, in Shock And Awe... to Spread Democracy. Maybe, we should have stepped back and thought a little harder about the probable outcomes instead of hoping for the ever so slight possibility that Iraq would end up looking more like Nebraska. We really shoulda known.
Hail, Hail!!!
What can we do? Let THEM decide their future.
If they decide the path of Civil War... who's to say it hasn't always been in their cards for 100 years... except oppressive Sunni minorities such as Hussein and recent military actions and occupation of the US have been keeping them from duking it out. Maybe we're just sitting in a barrel of gun powder with a lit fuse and is going to blow up, no matter how hard we try to suppress it.
If they decide that a Shi'ite Bloc with Iran is in their best interests for greater bargaining power of the Middle Eastern oil... shouldn't THEY get to decide, not us? It's THEIR home... it's THEIR oil, not ours.
Yeah... their decisions may not be in our best interests, but do we allow other nations to impose their bests interest on us?
If we claim to be the beacon of Democracy and Freedom... yet, we impose our will upon them... what does that say about us?
Hail, Hail!!!
And yes, the US does let other countries impose their will upon us. Why do you think there is still a North Korea? And the US is constantly in a battle of wills with Russia ... why do you think Iran has a nuclear program?
I don't get your point here... about North Korea and Russia. How is North Korea and Russia telling you what to do... for them?
What I mean is something like this... It would be in China's best interest if they could set up manufacturing plants, here in the U.S., in order to cut the costs of shipping their goods to our Wal-Marts over here. It would be in their best interests if they used the Chinese model of manufacturing... with the low wages, heavy pollution, no workers rights in order to be able to produce goods at low costs.
Would we allow China to impose China's best interests on us... here? HELL NO, we wouldn't. Right?
...
So, why do we feel perfectly okay to impose what would be best interests... from our standpoint... on Iraq?
Hail, Hail!!!
How long before we're talking about how the 'my enemy's enemy' idea was a bad plan, and they turned on us because they hate us for our freedom?...the wheels on the bus go round and round.....
Anyway, it's a moot point. How would it help the US in the eyes of the world if civil war breaks out? You say you are OK with that, but I call B.S. It's OK to say that since there isn't a civil war, but if the the US did leave and the country instantly tore itself to pieces, this thread would be 82 pages long right now full of anti-US comments.
When's the last time you were able to develop a trusting relationship with a woman, while fucking her friends, telling her who she can talk to, and abusing her? ALL relationships are two way. Give and take. The US is imposing their will in the middle east, thereby destroying any chance of a trusting relationship with any of these countries.
Now, all the Iraqi government has to do is to get two groups with different religious ideologies to see eye-to-eye and be at peace with each other. Seems simple.
So, how many more decades do you think the US will be there ...
Now we're worried about what the eyes of the world care about? You misquoted me, i never said I'd be okaywith a Civil War breaking out. I said, "If they (Iraq) decide the path of Civil War... who's to say it hasn't always been in their cards for 100 years... except oppressive Sunni minorities such as Hussein and recent military actions and occupation of the US have been keeping them from duking it out. Maybe we're just sitting in a barrel of gun powder with a lit fuse and is going to blow up, no matter how hard we try to suppress it."
If a Civil War does breaks out in Iraq... that's Iraq's gig... it is on Iraq. Why is it OUR responsibility to keep our boot on their neck to keep them from fighting? What if England came over here in 1865 to keep us from killing each other... would we have turned out a better nation? We don't know, but we pretty much came through it all right.
Yes, there would be lots of opinions tossed around... but, YES, the major factor was the removal of the removal of Saddam Hussein and his brutal oppression of the majority Shi'ia in favor of the Sunni minority. So, the U.S. played a huge role in this thing... something that cannot be denied. The Shi'ite/Sunni aggression has been going on since the days after the prophet Mohammed died. Hussein was able to keep a lid on it... we were able to keep a lid on it. It does not mean it erases 1400 years of anomosity.
Hail, Hail!!!
They are also sticking around to keep enemies from moving in and asserting their presence. Those are two pretty big motivational factors.
And it's not just profit, it's power that is at stake. Oil is power. The entire world relies on it. Any superpower that just walks away from a position of power will soon find themselves further down the pecking order.
I'm being realistic about the current situation.
I say "going to War for the Zionist banks with American tanks" and you say "Everything has to be tied back to the Jews".
Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות, Tsiyonut) is a Jewish political movement
You said "Tied back to the Jews".
You seriously think that "Zionist banks" is a reference to the tribe of Judah? I mean, I don't know how much of the etymology you want to get into with me. But based on that post of yours and other posts by you here, I think I have an idea where it will end up going. A circle.
We can talk about Apartheid South Africa, Nazism, what do we equate them with? Now take a look at the Zionist movement/Banks/system..."tied back to the jews"...? No, rather tied (intent) back to all other racist, corrupt political movements etc, If you feel otherwise Then that is your own prerogative.
Obviously that's what's wanted. It's an easy out. " is a Jewish political movement". What a load..Zionism and it's affiliated groups etc are greedy/corrupt political movements/systems and is the cause/reason for many wars.
It's an insult to Judaism.
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Zionism is not some "Jewish political movement", You need to really understand what it is, where it came from and how it relates to the banking system/Federal reserve, 3rd world countries, the state of Israel, world war 1 and 2 and now Iraq and Iran. Not just Zionism, it's just part of it.
You like making connections? So connect those.
Right on.
Reminds me of this story...
The British rule of India, when Gandhi was meeting with British leaders and asked them to leave India. They laughed at the Mahatma, they said things like "India will fall into problems, civil wars"..To which Gandhi said something along the lines of.."That May be, but they will Be OUR problems".
People need to walk whatever path they need to walk, it's not right to get in the way and block them. What will be, will be.
It's human nature to make generalizations when it benefits our point of view.
1+1=2 is not a point of view. (Yes yes, what we are adding matters, variables do exist)
For far too long these oligarchs have drained the masses, polluting our minds. The kicker? We allow them this. almost like we are screaming "take our minds!"
I mean, does it not bother you that we were taught half truths and twisted historical reality in school?
Like I said before, learn about World War 1, 2..Learn about why these happened, where did the money come from? This horrific cycle of wars and killing. In the US since 1913 and the creation of the 3rd bank.That's when the US was officially sold out.
The Military industrial complex,lobbies...We have politicians backed by corporations etc...Naturally these Politicians will in turn be subservient to them, the ones who gave them the power.
In the US you want to get elected? Taken seriously? You need to speak with AIPAC...How does that make sense? You have our leaders talking about an undying, steadfast never waiver support for Israel. For what reason? Where did it come from? Why do we support it blindly?
Obama, Clinton, Bush..Same game different names.
Think about it man...Why? Where did this support come from? The players behind it? The wars connected to it...
Pretend you are not an American, now read and learn about what's going on in the world.
Don't get me wrong, Canada also..Puppet. Part of Our illusion is that we think we are different from the US or other countries. That's part of our hypocrisy. We are part of the System too. Plus we have a marshmallow for a Prime Minster.
I just read a really nasty post in another thread that made me lose hope for humanity. Then I decided to look into this thread and stumbled upon this one. Hope is not all lost. Great post Idris!!!