Is this good parenting?

Prince Of Dorkness

Good GOD no.

What the hell is that mother thinking?

Pink Pumps with Blue Jeans in January? What are we, Cavemen?

Prince Of Dorkness

For the record... when I was a little boy and was told "this is for girls" and "that is for boys" it only made think the adult telling me that was an A-hole.

If an adult told me "you can't wear those glasses, those are for girls," I'd have insisted on the glasses I wanted and told the woman "I'm glad I'm not your kid."

But I was an A-hole too. Even at 6.

Let the kid wear what he wants. I loved to play dress up when I was a little boy. I wore my dad's shoes and my mom's shoes, my sister's cheerleading uniform and my father's army fatigues. IT had no impact on me other than my attitude of not giving a crap what anyone else says, thinks or wants for me. I'll live on my own terms.

Telling a kid "that's not for you" and forcing our societal gender roles on a child not old enough to understand them isn't going to do anything other than annoy them.

bjo1015

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

For the record... when I was a little boy and was told "this is for girls" and "that is for boys" it only made think the adult telling me that was an A-hole.

If an adult told me "you can't wear those glasses, those are for girls," I'd have insisted on the glasses I wanted and told the woman "I'm glad I'm not your kid."

But I was an A-hole too. Even at 6.

Let the kid wear what he wants. I loved to play dress up when I was a little boy. I wore my dad's shoes and my mom's shoes, my sister's cheerleading uniform and my father's army fatigues. IT had no impact on me other than my attitude of not giving a crap what anyone else says, thinks or wants for me. I'll live on my own terms.

Telling a kid "that's not for you" and forcing our societal gender roles on a child not old enough to understand them isn't going to do anything other than annoy them.

Prince Of Dorkness

Oh... and try this one on..

I asked for a Ken. My sister had Barbie and I wanted Ken.

My parents thought that it would be better if I got the "boys" dolls like Steve Austin and GI Joe. They got me Steve and Joe (the 12" one with the reddish fuzzy beard and the "Kung Foo Grip.")

They were a bit flummoxed when they saw that they had evicted my sister's barbie and moved in together in Barbie's Dream Townhouse and took long bareback rides on the beach together on their horses, slept in the same bed and drove around in the two-seater Dune Buggy that came with Ken.

JonnyPistachio

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Oh... and try this one on..

I asked for a Ken. My sister had Barbie and I wanted Ken.

My parents thought that it would be better if I got the "boys" dolls like Steve Austin and GI Joe. They got me Steve and Joe (the 12" one with the reddish fuzzy beard and the "Kung Foo Grip.")

They were a bit flummoxed when they saw that they had evicted my sister's barbie and moved in together in Barbie's Dream Townhouse and took long bareback rides on the beach together on their horses, slept in the same bed and drove around in the two-seater Dune Buggy that came with Ken.

...and it took them HOW long to figure you out?!
You crack me up POD.

Jeanwah

My brother used to steal a couple of my sister's shirts and wear them to school in the late 70s. They weren't girly shirts, just typical 70s like dorky looking shirts. And no, he is not gay.

Cheeks

It's fine parenting. At two, my daughter already picks her clothes and often goes out looking either like Punky Brewster or a boy. Some days she wants a pretty dress... other days her "rocket ship shirt" and nothing else.
The only thing I insist on when we leave the house is that her face is washed and her teeth and hair are brushed.
Let kids be kids and wear what they want--especially if they can articulate the reasoning behind it.
Kids will face enough social pressure as they get older. Let them enjoy their childhood while they are blissfully unaware.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

JonnyPistachio wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Seems like it presented the opportunity to explain the differences in the way boys and girls dress. Although not a huge deal, let's be honest... the pink shoes are not 'right' for the kid. He needed to have the differences between boys and girls' styles explained in 'kid-like' fashion.

Just because a kid wants to 'express himself' doesn't make it right. What if the boy wanted a nighty because it had Blues Clues on it? Kids need to be educated about these things. The opportunity presented itself and the parent chose to let the kid prevail with his naive desire.

None of us know this kid. What if he had a Jim Carrey sense of humor? I once went outside to play with my friends wearing my moms high heels. They laughed like hell. But i'm sure most other people's concerns are surrounding a bigger elephant in the room...
lets not deny it, there is an underlying theme that parents might be concerned their boy is like a girl, or possibly gay. So what. Is it better he becomes comfortable with it at 8 years old, or at 18 when he's struggling through college?
What's his motivation? None of us here know.

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

My wife works as a lab tech dispensing eyeglasses. Many times boys want frames that are clearly for girls. With little difficulty, she manages to have the young boy understand that the frames they have picked out aren't 'right' for the boy.

I dont know too much about glasses, but i've also never noticed too much of a difference between male and female design. And if I had a son who wanted glasses that were designed for a female, i think I'd be more annoyed that someone who doesnt know him is telling him what's 'right' for him...especially something that is ambiguous. If they're 'clearly for girls' why all the confusion?

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

When people speak of 'picking your battles'... you had better have your kids attention and respect when they reach young adulthood. If they have grown up always getting their way and never being re-directed (parented) when appropriate, they will not be as receptive when they feel as if they've 'got it'! I'm not saying fight them on everything, but relative to social issues, I think parental intervention is necessary.

My son used to want to turn his underwear backside to the front- so he could see the Tarzan, Shrek, and whatever other images underwear companies placed on the bum. Not worth a fight. Opting for panties... a fight.

Now, I do agree that there are many things you have to be cautious about and pick your battles wisely, but there are some that just shouldnt matter. Funny story about the backwards undies though!

This thread boils down to values. I just think that kids need some guidance and- right or wrong- this would be have been a moment where I would have provided some. Don't get me wrong here though... this is not a huge deal. We're just talking philosophical standpoints.

fife

_ wrote:

It depends on whether she wants to teach him to stand up for his beliefs or conform to everyone else. To me, the answer is clear.

Really, while i agree with everyone here that this is not a sign of bad parenting at all. i think it does raise an issue. is the kid going to be safe? we live in a world where people who are perceived to be"different" do get beat up and sometimes killed. its sad but true.

fife

Cheeks wrote:

It's fine parenting. At two, my daughter already picks her clothes and often goes out looking either like Punky Brewster or a boy. Some days she wants a pretty dress... other days her "rocket ship shirt" and nothing else.
The only thing I insist on when we leave the house is that her face is washed and her teeth and hair are brushed.
Let kids be kids and wear what they want--especially if they can articulate the reasoning behind it.
Kids will face enough social pressure as they get older. Let them enjoy their childhood while they are blissfully unaware.

completely agree but another question. is it more socially accepted for a girl to look more like a boy as compared to a boy looking like a girl?

CH156378

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Good GOD no.

What the hell is that mother thinking?

Pink Pumps with Blue Jeans in January? What are we, Cavemen?

Cheeks

fife wrote:

Cheeks wrote:

It's fine parenting. At two, my daughter already picks her clothes and often goes out looking either like Punky Brewster or a boy. Some days she wants a pretty dress... other days her "rocket ship shirt" and nothing else.
The only thing I insist on when we leave the house is that her face is washed and her teeth and hair are brushed.
Let kids be kids and wear what they want--especially if they can articulate the reasoning behind it.
Kids will face enough social pressure as they get older. Let them enjoy their childhood while they are blissfully unaware.

completely agree but another question. is it more socially accepted for a girl to look more like a boy as compared to a boy looking like a girl?

I do think it is more socially acceptable for a girl to look like a boy--especially from a father's perspective (I think, anyway). But I still think that, regardless of gender, kids should be able to express themselves and wear whatever they feel good in. I like to think I would have the same attitude if I had a son and he wanted to wear pink shoes, but, who's to say....

People have different parenting styles. I do teach my child boundaries and how to treat other people with kindness and respect, but one of my main priorities in raising her is to have her know that she is safe with us--we will never judge her or make her feel stupid or unimportant. No matter how she is dressed or what she decides she likes or dislikes, we love her for who she is. I believe I would raise a son the same way.

pandora

After raising teens pink zebra shoes are nothing!

I never had any strict dress codes and the kids wore what they liked most often...
well funerals I had a say.

It made for some crazy teen young adult years ... a lot of those future "what was I thinking"
moments for them.

Kids are people they need to be themselves

StillHere

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

Seems like it presented the opportunity to explain the differences in the way boys and girls dress. Although not a huge deal, let's be honest... the pink shoes are not 'right' for the kid. He needed to have the differences between boys and girls' styles explained in 'kid-like' fashion.

Just because a kid wants to 'express himself' doesn't make it right. What if the boy wanted a nighty because it had Blues Clues on it? Kids need to be educated about these things. The opportunity presented itself and the parent chose to let the kid prevail with his naive desire.

My wife works as a lab tech dispensing eyeglasses. Many times boys want frames that are clearly for girls. With little difficulty, she manages to have the young boy understand that the frames they have picked out aren't 'right' for the boy.

When people speak of 'picking your battles'... you had better have your kids attention and respect when they reach young adulthood. If they have grown up always getting their way and never being re-directed (parented) when appropriate, they will not be as receptive when they feel as if they've 'got it'! I'm not saying fight them on everything, but relative to social issues, I think parental intervention is necessary.

My son used to want to turn his underwear backside to the front- so he could see the Tarzan, Shrek, and whatever other images underwear companies placed on the bum. Not worth a fight. Opting for panties... a fight.

it has been my experience that you can and do gain parental respect without micro-managing your child's every move
i am very close with my children, who are all grown with kids of their own now
their father, who was very opinionated and enforced "the rules" right down to something like the shoes they chose, does not have a relationship with them
now that they have children, i see them making mistakes in some areas and shining brightly in others
as we all do throughout our lives
it is not my place to tell them what to do or not to do, but to gently guide
they have learned how to think for themselves and make the appropriate decisions for themselves by doing so
i believe that allowing them to make many decisions from a young age (of course they were guided and protected from danger and they stumbled and also triumphed through it all) has shaped them into the responsible and loving adults that they now are

just my opinion, mind you
but i think this mom has done the right thing

hippie? yep...maybe..and enjoying every minute

to each his or her own
as long as no one is being hurt

_

fife wrote:

_ wrote:

It depends on whether she wants to teach him to stand up for his beliefs or conform to everyone else. To me, the answer is clear.

Really, while i agree with everyone here that this is not a sign of bad parenting at all. i think it does raise an issue. is the kid going to be safe? we live in a world where people who are perceived to be"different" do get beat up and sometimes killed. its sad but true.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. But I think safety has to be assessed in each circumstance. Preschool seems like a pretty safe environment in terms of not yet having a "That boy's wearing pink shoes? We're going to kick his ass!" type of attitude.

I can't believe we're even still having this conversation about "boys' clothes" and "girls' clothes" though! Haven't we been having the same conversation forever and ever, and when we look at the attitudes of people in the past, we think they were nuts. To me, that's a pretty good indication that we're nuts too, since we're doing the same thing. I mean, should we still be saying it's shameful for women to wear pants and for men to have long hair?

Thirty Bills Unpaid

_ wrote:

fife wrote:

_ wrote:

It depends on whether she wants to teach him to stand up for his beliefs or conform to everyone else. To me, the answer is clear.

Really, while i agree with everyone here that this is not a sign of bad parenting at all. i think it does raise an issue. is the kid going to be safe? we live in a world where people who are perceived to be"different" do get beat up and sometimes killed. its sad but true.

Yeah, I know what you're saying. But I think safety has to be assessed in each circumstance. Preschool seems like a pretty safe environment in terms of not yet having a "That boy's wearing pink shoes? We're going to kick his ass!" type of attitude.

I can't believe we're even still having this conversation about "boys' clothes" and "girls' clothes" though! Haven't we been having the same conversation forever and ever, and when we look at the attitudes of people in the past, we think they were nuts. To me, that's a pretty good indication that we're nuts too, since we're doing the same thing. I mean, should we still be saying it's shameful for women to wear pants and for men to have long hair?

I'm feeling 'old school' on this one. You've kind of used extremes to make your point and I get it. Have you suggested that society would be best served, say, if parents had one dresser of clothes for their children and that their children would wear whatever garment happened to be on top on any given day? In such a scenario, boys might end up wearing a dress on some days because it just happened to be the 'next' article of clothing. Should we promote gender differences at all? If we do, does this really make us less enlightened, evolved, or 'nuts'?

_

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

_ wrote:

Yeah, I know what you're saying. But I think safety has to be assessed in each circumstance. Preschool seems like a pretty safe environment in terms of not yet having a "That boy's wearing pink shoes? We're going to kick his ass!" type of attitude.

I can't believe we're even still having this conversation about "boys' clothes" and "girls' clothes" though! Haven't we been having the same conversation forever and ever, and when we look at the attitudes of people in the past, we think they were nuts. To me, that's a pretty good indication that we're nuts too, since we're doing the same thing. I mean, should we still be saying it's shameful for women to wear pants and for men to have long hair?

I'm feeling 'old school' on this one. You've kind of used extremes to make your point and I get it. Have you suggested that society would be best served, say, if parents had one dresser of clothes for their children and that their children would wear whatever garment happened to be on top on any given day? In such a scenario, boys might end up wearing a dress on some days because it just happened to be the 'next' article of clothing. Should we promote gender differences at all? If we do, does this really make us less enlightened, evolved, or 'nuts'?

I don't think my examples were that extreme at all, actually. If I had asked whether we should still be saying it's shameful for women to not wear corsets and men to not wear those white wigs, that would be extreme. But it was only one generation ago that women weren't supposed to wear pants and men weren't supposed to have long hair. For many people around today, that was their experience growing up.

I think people should wear whatever they feel like wearing unless there's some functional reason not to. Like, kids should be made to wear coats when it's freezing outside (though I see lots of kids who don't). Everyone should be made to wear shoes in restaurants. No one should ever consistently wear high heels, since they often do permanent damage to your feet. But I can't think of any legitimate reason for boys and girls not to wear the same clothes, and if the only argument in support of the distinction is the same one we thought was wrong when our parents' generation used it, then I don't think we should be hypocritical about it.

I don't think we should promote gender differences that are purely socially constructed with no solid functional argument to support them. And I do think it is less enlightened (for lack of a better phrase) to believe there's a REAL reason behind some of the differences we promote IF there's not.

JaneNY

As long as my kids didn't go out naked I really didn't give a hoot what they wore. There's more important things in life. We had stripes with plaid, and green with orange, patterns with other patterns, horribly clashing. And now they're both incredible fashionistas lecturing me on when to wear kitten heels and what nail polish goes with what. Let little kids wear what they want - it is not like he's going to be wearing those shoes when he's grown, and if he does, more power to him.