The National Football League

Glorified KC

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

The other dumb thing (nothing to do with the Chiefs) is the delay of game. In any other sport when the clock hits zero, it's over. Here, it's hits zero, everyone sees it, yet the whole stadium doesn't know if it's a penalty. Who the hell came up with this?

I don't understand why you can't put a buzzer, or a light on the play clock similar to the shot clock in basketball.  The protocol is to look at the clock and when it hits zero and your eye level hits the snap, if the ball is snapping when you move your eyes then it's not a penalty.  Just weird.

mrussel1

Glorified KC said:

mrussel1 said:

Glorified KC said:

Poncier said:

Golly gee willikers, Patrick Mahomes doesn't think the Chiefs get favorable calls from the refs.

They don't.  When the opposing team lines up in the neutral zone they call offsides, when it clearly should be a 15-yard personal foul penalty.  That's just not fair.

Not to split hairs, but it's "unsportsmanlike conduct" to try and cheat by giving yourself a head start.  In college, two of those means disqualification.  If the NFL weren't a bunch of pussies, they would definitely disqualify players trying to cheat against the Chiefs.  

Just keeping it real.  

I'm being sarcastic...self deprecating. 

I recognize that.  

Merkin Baller

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

Agreed.

 If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

mrussel1

Merkin Baller said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

Agreed.

 If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know that I agree.  In hockey, the dive is almost never called.  I don't recall a time where that was a huge issue and I have been watching hockey religiously for a very long time.  The players seem to take care of the diving issue on their own.  

That being said, I do think that personal fouls should be part of those instant reviews.  I know it's a subjective penalty, but if they at least review to see whether the hit was to the head, the facemask was grabbed or not or if the contact started inbound or out of bounds, that is pretty objective.  It would be hard to officiate whether the force of the hit was excessive through replay, but not whether the action actually occurred. 

Merkin Baller

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

Agreed.

 If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know that I agree.  In hockey, the dive is almost never called.  I don't recall a time where that was a huge issue and I have been watching hockey religiously for a very long time.  The players seem to take care of the diving issue on their own.  

That being said, I do think that personal fouls should be part of those instant reviews.  I know it's a subjective penalty, but if they at least review to see whether the hit was to the head, the facemask was grabbed or not or if the contact started inbound or out of bounds, that is pretty objective.  It would be hard to officiate whether the force of the hit was excessive through replay, but not whether the action actually occurred. 

I'm all for expanding coaches' challenge to include penalties / personal fouls. 

& I'm less talking about the diving as I am talking about bush league shit like Mahomes pulling up short of the out of bounds line trying to induce a hit for an extra 15 yards. The flop after the fact is just embarrassing and should be beneath him. I'm not going to root for him to get knocked into oblivion the next time he does that, but I also can't say it wouldn't be deserved. 

It's also tough for defenders to know if a running QB is going into a slide or juking an incoming defender... IDK how it could be policed, but it's hard to defend against as the current rules stand. 

mrussel1

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

Agreed.

 If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know that I agree.  In hockey, the dive is almost never called.  I don't recall a time where that was a huge issue and I have been watching hockey religiously for a very long time.  The players seem to take care of the diving issue on their own.  

That being said, I do think that personal fouls should be part of those instant reviews.  I know it's a subjective penalty, but if they at least review to see whether the hit was to the head, the facemask was grabbed or not or if the contact started inbound or out of bounds, that is pretty objective.  It would be hard to officiate whether the force of the hit was excessive through replay, but not whether the action actually occurred. 

I'm all for expanding coaches' challenge to include penalties / personal fouls. 

& I'm less talking about the diving as I am talking about bush league shit like Mahomes pulling up short of the out of bounds line trying to induce a hit for an extra 15 yards. The flop after the fact is just embarrassing and should be beneath him. I'm not going to root for him to get knocked into oblivion the next time he does that, but I also can't say it wouldn't be deserved. 

It's also tough for defenders to know if a running QB is going into a slide or juking an incoming defender... IDK how it could be policed, but it's hard to defend against as the current rules stand. 

QB's fake running and then go down to draw the hit as well.  When I say QBs, I don't mean Josh Allen.  I'm not sure how you get rid of that, but it needs to be gone.  

Merkin Baller

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

Agreed.

 If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know that I agree.  In hockey, the dive is almost never called.  I don't recall a time where that was a huge issue and I have been watching hockey religiously for a very long time.  The players seem to take care of the diving issue on their own.  

That being said, I do think that personal fouls should be part of those instant reviews.  I know it's a subjective penalty, but if they at least review to see whether the hit was to the head, the facemask was grabbed or not or if the contact started inbound or out of bounds, that is pretty objective.  It would be hard to officiate whether the force of the hit was excessive through replay, but not whether the action actually occurred. 

I'm all for expanding coaches' challenge to include penalties / personal fouls. 

& I'm less talking about the diving as I am talking about bush league shit like Mahomes pulling up short of the out of bounds line trying to induce a hit for an extra 15 yards. The flop after the fact is just embarrassing and should be beneath him. I'm not going to root for him to get knocked into oblivion the next time he does that, but I also can't say it wouldn't be deserved. 

It's also tough for defenders to know if a running QB is going into a slide or juking an incoming defender... IDK how it could be policed, but it's hard to defend against as the current rules stand. 

QB's fake running and then go down to draw the hit as well.  When I say QBs, I don't mean Josh Allen.  I'm not sure how you get rid of that, but it needs to be gone.  

I'm aware, and I think we're on the same page, bringing us back to my original point:  If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know HOW you police it, but it's taking away form the game. 

Johnny Abruzzo

This would be worth doing to Mahomes. Would get a penalty (although it looks like a legal hit), but be 100% worth it. And yeah, nobody was apologizing, At All.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1bmkgzm/jim_burt_destroys_joe_montana_1986_playoffs/

Glorified KC

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

Agreed.

 If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know that I agree.  In hockey, the dive is almost never called.  I don't recall a time where that was a huge issue and I have been watching hockey religiously for a very long time.  The players seem to take care of the diving issue on their own.  

That being said, I do think that personal fouls should be part of those instant reviews.  I know it's a subjective penalty, but if they at least review to see whether the hit was to the head, the facemask was grabbed or not or if the contact started inbound or out of bounds, that is pretty objective.  It would be hard to officiate whether the force of the hit was excessive through replay, but not whether the action actually occurred. 

I'm all for expanding coaches' challenge to include penalties / personal fouls. 

& I'm less talking about the diving as I am talking about bush league shit like Mahomes pulling up short of the out of bounds line trying to induce a hit for an extra 15 yards. The flop after the fact is just embarrassing and should be beneath him. I'm not going to root for him to get knocked into oblivion the next time he does that, but I also can't say it wouldn't be deserved. 

It's also tough for defenders to know if a running QB is going into a slide or juking an incoming defender... IDK how it could be policed, but it's hard to defend against as the current rules stand. 

QB's fake running and then go down to draw the hit as well.  When I say QBs, I don't mean Josh Allen.  I'm not sure how you get rid of that, but it needs to be gone.  

Are you insinuating Josh Allen hasn't flopped to try to gain 15 yards?

https://www.cbs42.com/sports/sports-illustrated/72e437f2/josh-allens-ridiculous-flop-vs-rams-doesnt-earn-a-flag/

mrussel1

Glorified KC said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

Agreed.

 If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know that I agree.  In hockey, the dive is almost never called.  I don't recall a time where that was a huge issue and I have been watching hockey religiously for a very long time.  The players seem to take care of the diving issue on their own.  

That being said, I do think that personal fouls should be part of those instant reviews.  I know it's a subjective penalty, but if they at least review to see whether the hit was to the head, the facemask was grabbed or not or if the contact started inbound or out of bounds, that is pretty objective.  It would be hard to officiate whether the force of the hit was excessive through replay, but not whether the action actually occurred. 

I'm all for expanding coaches' challenge to include penalties / personal fouls. 

& I'm less talking about the diving as I am talking about bush league shit like Mahomes pulling up short of the out of bounds line trying to induce a hit for an extra 15 yards. The flop after the fact is just embarrassing and should be beneath him. I'm not going to root for him to get knocked into oblivion the next time he does that, but I also can't say it wouldn't be deserved. 

It's also tough for defenders to know if a running QB is going into a slide or juking an incoming defender... IDK how it could be policed, but it's hard to defend against as the current rules stand. 

QB's fake running and then go down to draw the hit as well.  When I say QBs, I don't mean Josh Allen.  I'm not sure how you get rid of that, but it needs to be gone.  

Are you insinuating Josh Allen hasn't flopped to try to gain 15 yards?

https://www.cbs42.com/sports/sports-illustrated/72e437f2/josh-allens-ridiculous-flop-vs-rams-doesnt-earn-a-flag/

okay okay I'm sure it has happened.  But you know Josh Allen brings the body.  He doesn't seem to be the most likely culprit.  I'm no Bills fan either.  

MayDay10

Allen definitely flops, and gets flags.  

I also notice with Allen, he takes some brutal shots that don't get called as much as some of the other QBs.  

It is all a weird thing and can use a little bit of defining.  

Glorified KC

I don't condone what Pat did on Saturday.  Both the running back in-bounds to goad a late hit and the flop on the sideline were terrible.  Has he done this before?  Sure.  I bristle at the fact that he's the most egregious in the NFL.  This happened to be on a nationally televised Division Round game and there are only 4 games to go back and yell and bitch about on ESPN, FOX, NFL Network and any other national pundit looking to have the next "spicy hot take." It happens with more QBs than you think, it's just diluted by the number of games in the regular season and the relevance of the games to one another. 

I'm with Merkin and Johnny that something needs to be done to nip this in the bud.  The NBA was smart enough to call technical fouls on guys who flail after getting challenged on a jump shot.  Personal foul penalties are killers.  15 yards and an automatic first down which I also can't stand that almost every damn defensive penalty results in an automatic first down, but I digress.

mrussel1

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

Agreed.

 If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know that I agree.  In hockey, the dive is almost never called.  I don't recall a time where that was a huge issue and I have been watching hockey religiously for a very long time.  The players seem to take care of the diving issue on their own.  

That being said, I do think that personal fouls should be part of those instant reviews.  I know it's a subjective penalty, but if they at least review to see whether the hit was to the head, the facemask was grabbed or not or if the contact started inbound or out of bounds, that is pretty objective.  It would be hard to officiate whether the force of the hit was excessive through replay, but not whether the action actually occurred. 

I'm all for expanding coaches' challenge to include penalties / personal fouls. 

& I'm less talking about the diving as I am talking about bush league shit like Mahomes pulling up short of the out of bounds line trying to induce a hit for an extra 15 yards. The flop after the fact is just embarrassing and should be beneath him. I'm not going to root for him to get knocked into oblivion the next time he does that, but I also can't say it wouldn't be deserved. 

It's also tough for defenders to know if a running QB is going into a slide or juking an incoming defender... IDK how it could be policed, but it's hard to defend against as the current rules stand. 

QB's fake running and then go down to draw the hit as well.  When I say QBs, I don't mean Josh Allen.  I'm not sure how you get rid of that, but it needs to be gone.  

I'm aware, and I think we're on the same page, bringing us back to my original point:  If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know HOW you police it, but it's taking away form the game. 

To be clear, my point on the reviews for blows to the head, out of bounds, facemasks should be in play for all plays, not just QB protection plays.  Officials often have bad angles and they react to the turning of the neck and such.  

Somehow I misread your original post and now that I re-read, I agree.  I think maybe the fake slide is what bothers me more than a flop.  You see DTs flop when they get pushed and it looks hilarious.  I don't necessarily want 15 yards when that happens.  I know you are saying that on QBs not the line players, just making a point that there is other flopping out there. 

The fake slide and "pretending you are running then sliding" just puts the defense at an extraordinary disadvantage.  

Merkin Baller

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

Agreed.

 If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know that I agree.  In hockey, the dive is almost never called.  I don't recall a time where that was a huge issue and I have been watching hockey religiously for a very long time.  The players seem to take care of the diving issue on their own.  

That being said, I do think that personal fouls should be part of those instant reviews.  I know it's a subjective penalty, but if they at least review to see whether the hit was to the head, the facemask was grabbed or not or if the contact started inbound or out of bounds, that is pretty objective.  It would be hard to officiate whether the force of the hit was excessive through replay, but not whether the action actually occurred. 

I'm all for expanding coaches' challenge to include penalties / personal fouls. 

& I'm less talking about the diving as I am talking about bush league shit like Mahomes pulling up short of the out of bounds line trying to induce a hit for an extra 15 yards. The flop after the fact is just embarrassing and should be beneath him. I'm not going to root for him to get knocked into oblivion the next time he does that, but I also can't say it wouldn't be deserved. 

It's also tough for defenders to know if a running QB is going into a slide or juking an incoming defender... IDK how it could be policed, but it's hard to defend against as the current rules stand. 

QB's fake running and then go down to draw the hit as well.  When I say QBs, I don't mean Josh Allen.  I'm not sure how you get rid of that, but it needs to be gone.  

I'm aware, and I think we're on the same page, bringing us back to my original point:  If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know HOW you police it, but it's taking away form the game. 

To be clear, my point on the reviews for blows to the head, out of bounds, facemasks should be in play for all plays, not just QB protection plays.  Officials often have bad angles and they react to the turning of the neck and such.  

Somehow I misread your original post and now that I re-read, I agree.  I think maybe the fake slide is what bothers me more than a flop.  You see DTs flop when they get pushed and it looks hilarious.  I don't necessarily want 15 yards when that happens.  I know you are saying that on QBs not the line players, just making a point that there is other flopping out there. 

The fake slide and "pretending you are running then sliding" just puts the defense at an extraordinary disadvantage.  

We are on the same page... I'm talking less about the flopping and more about the fake slide / pulling up short of running out of bounds... these are instances of the QBs exploiting the extra protection they get. It's less about Mahomes or Allen or anyone else in particular, and more about how it's getting harder for defenders to play defense. 

I don't know how you police it, but it's taking away from the game. 

F Me In The Brain

Johnny Abruzzo said:

This would be worth doing to Mahomes. Would get a penalty (although it looks like a legal hit), but be 100% worth it. And yeah, nobody was apologizing, At All.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1bmkgzm/jim_burt_destroys_joe_montana_1986_playoffs/

I'm not clicking that link.  Play is burned into my head.  Cost was another SB trip and likely win.
That was painful.
(Not as painful as it was to Joe!)

Lerxst1992

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mrussel1 said:

Merkin Baller said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

The fake slide needs to be a 15-yarder on the QB. The flailing out of bounds should be an unsportsmanlike. They have that in the NHL, although it's nullified that it's almost always called along with the penalty itself. Finally, all the 15-yard penalties should be reviewed by replay assist.

Agreed.

 If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know that I agree.  In hockey, the dive is almost never called.  I don't recall a time where that was a huge issue and I have been watching hockey religiously for a very long time.  The players seem to take care of the diving issue on their own.  

That being said, I do think that personal fouls should be part of those instant reviews.  I know it's a subjective penalty, but if they at least review to see whether the hit was to the head, the facemask was grabbed or not or if the contact started inbound or out of bounds, that is pretty objective.  It would be hard to officiate whether the force of the hit was excessive through replay, but not whether the action actually occurred. 

I'm all for expanding coaches' challenge to include penalties / personal fouls. 

& I'm less talking about the diving as I am talking about bush league shit like Mahomes pulling up short of the out of bounds line trying to induce a hit for an extra 15 yards. The flop after the fact is just embarrassing and should be beneath him. I'm not going to root for him to get knocked into oblivion the next time he does that, but I also can't say it wouldn't be deserved. 

It's also tough for defenders to know if a running QB is going into a slide or juking an incoming defender... IDK how it could be policed, but it's hard to defend against as the current rules stand. 

QB's fake running and then go down to draw the hit as well.  When I say QBs, I don't mean Josh Allen.  I'm not sure how you get rid of that, but it needs to be gone.  

I'm aware, and I think we're on the same page, bringing us back to my original point:  If QBs are going to get special treatment even as runners, there should be some limitations put on what they can & can't do. 

I don't know HOW you police it, but it's taking away form the game. 

To be clear, my point on the reviews for blows to the head, out of bounds, facemasks should be in play for all plays, not just QB protection plays.  Officials often have bad angles and they react to the turning of the neck and such.  

Somehow I misread your original post and now that I re-read, I agree.  I think maybe the fake slide is what bothers me more than a flop.  You see DTs flop when they get pushed and it looks hilarious.  I don't necessarily want 15 yards when that happens.  I know you are saying that on QBs not the line players, just making a point that there is other flopping out there. 

The fake slide and "pretending you are running then sliding" just puts the defense at an extraordinary disadvantage.  

We are on the same page... I'm talking less about the flopping and more about the fake slide / pulling up short of running out of bounds... these are instances of the QBs exploiting the extra protection they get. It's less about Mahomes or Allen or anyone else in particular, and more about how it's getting harder for defenders to play defense. 

I don't know how you police it, but it's taking away from the game. 

Problem is refs are not following the rules. QBs are not supposed to get additional protection once they leave the pocket. If the issue is the ref believes the QB was beginning a slide, that should be subject to a coaches challenge.

It’s getting so bad , might as well put a large flag on each hip, so there is no more tackling of QBs. Or limit the amount of yards the QB can gain on scrambles.

 

The Juggler

F Me In The Brain said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

This would be worth doing to Mahomes. Would get a penalty (although it looks like a legal hit), but be 100% worth it. And yeah, nobody was apologizing, At All.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1bmkgzm/jim_burt_destroys_joe_montana_1986_playoffs/

I'm not clicking that link.  Play is burned into my head.  Cost was another SB trip and likely win.
That was painful.
(Not as painful as it was to Joe!)

Oh sure....right in the middle of 4 SB titles in 10 or 11 years? I can only imagine how much that one hurt! lol

F Me In The Brain

The Juggler said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

This would be worth doing to Mahomes. Would get a penalty (although it looks like a legal hit), but be 100% worth it. And yeah, nobody was apologizing, At All.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1bmkgzm/jim_burt_destroys_joe_montana_1986_playoffs/

I'm not clicking that link.  Play is burned into my head.  Cost was another SB trip and likely win.
That was painful.
(Not as painful as it was to Joe!)

Oh sure....right in the middle of 4 SB titles in 10 or 11 years? I can only imagine how much that one hurt! lol

To a 12 or 13 year old kid who lived amongst Giants fans it felt crushing.

But, if you put it that way I can see your point.
Sometimes the losses hurt more when you expect to win, right?

The Juggler

F Me In The Brain said:

The Juggler said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Johnny Abruzzo said:

This would be worth doing to Mahomes. Would get a penalty (although it looks like a legal hit), but be 100% worth it. And yeah, nobody was apologizing, At All.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NYGiants/comments/1bmkgzm/jim_burt_destroys_joe_montana_1986_playoffs/

I'm not clicking that link.  Play is burned into my head.  Cost was another SB trip and likely win.
That was painful.
(Not as painful as it was to Joe!)

Oh sure....right in the middle of 4 SB titles in 10 or 11 years? I can only imagine how much that one hurt! lol

To a 12 or 13 year old kid who lived amongst Giants fans it felt crushing.

But, if you put it that way I can see your point.
Sometimes the losses hurt more when you expect to win, right?

They got him again a few years later too. Even though my team won nothing back then, I really miss 80's and 90's NFL football....

Johnny Abruzzo

Dude the Giants were crushing them that game. It was an epic beatdown.