nobody has proven evolution from ape to man have they ?
so really this topic has answered its self thru the few comments that have already been posted, and maybe someday someone might find the "missing link" some people are hoping for but personally I doubt it, there is no DNA match in the slightest between man and ape that I know of which would be huge in this debate to even start talking about evolution of this type.
Godfather.
If humans descended from monkeys, how come there are still monkeys?
humans didnt descend from monkeys... nor did they descend from apes. they share a common ancestor that is all.
who or what is the common ancestor ? I'm not trying to stir the pot just really interested in who or what you guys think is this common ancestoe is.
nobody has proven evolution from ape to man have they ?
so really this topic has answered its self thru the few comments that have already been posted, and maybe someday someone might find the "missing link" some people are hoping for but personally I doubt it, there is no DNA match in the slightest between man and ape that I know of which would be huge in this debate to even start talking about evolution of this type.
Godfather.
If humans descended from monkeys, how come there are still monkeys?
I like your reply. :thumbup:
but I thinbk that some are moving in a different direction of evolution, I'm not clear of what they're refering to
but am truley interested in reading their theory/ideas of this
Godfather.
it is pretty accessible and will answer all your questions.
thanks' I read it and by the end of both reviews it was clear his ideas are theory(not knocking him or them) a book of ideas and some findings ,cabbage and rock pidgens etc.
nobody has proven evolution from ape to man have they ?
so really this topic has answered its self thru the few comments that have already been posted, and maybe someday someone might find the "missing link" some people are hoping for but personally I doubt it, there is no DNA match in the slightest between man and ape that I know of which would be huge in this debate to even start talking about evolution of this type.
Godfather.
If humans descended from monkeys, how come there are still monkeys?
I like your reply. :thumbup:
but I thinbk that some are moving in a different direction of evolution, I'm not clear of what they're refering to
but am truley interested in reading their theory/ideas of this
Godfather.
i think he was trolling... not sure... it's the most cliche and least rational argument made by creationists that makes people who understand evolution
like I said, read Darwin's "Origin of Species." that's a lot more efficient and complete than me explaining it to you second-hand.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
thanks' I read it and by the end of both reviews it was clear his ideas are theory(not knocking him or them) a book of ideas and some findings ,cabbage and rock pidgens etc.
Godfather.
my god...
i know you haven't read it
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
thanks' I read it and by the end of both reviews it was clear his ideas are theory(not knocking him or them) a book of ideas and some findings ,cabbage and rock pidgens etc.
Godfather.
The scientific definition of the word "theory" is different from the colloquial sense of the word. Colloquially or in the vernacular sense of the term, "theory" can refer to guesswork, a simple conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation that does not have to be based on facts and it need not be framed for making testable predictions. Scientific theories also contain speculation at first, but they develop over time and many are rejected as they are specifically crafted for the purpose or function of being testable. In this way, theories can be constructed using logic, models, or schemes for generating testable hypotheses with precision.
there is a masive difference between theory and scientific theory
Q: Why Do So Many Have Trouble Believing In Evolution?
...
My best guess?
I would say that if it were me... I would most likely not believe in Evolution because I **might** feel that the belief in Evolution would somehow negate the faith in my chosen religion. That the matter is either black or white... either you believe that the Bible is the word of God... or you don't. And that believing in something that opposes the word of God (as written in the Bible) would cause me to lose faith in my religion.
...
Of course, I'm a believer in truth, not faith. That does not mean i have no faith... it only means that I see the world in all colors between black and white. i have faith in things... one of them being truth. And I believe that we find more truth in knowledge, than we do in faith. It doesn't mean that faith has no truths... just that knowledge has more truths than faith... in the world... as I have seen it... to this point in time... in this space in the Universe.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
again, to say evolution is only a theory is tantamount to saying "the earth revolving around the sun is only a theory."
Why? Because of scientific observation, it is provable, and any questions denying it can be quickly refuted.
edit; as far as the existence of aliens, we do not know and it is a postulation NOT a theory that they exist. WHY? because it is not provable i.e., we do not have any evidence.
just by the sheer math (1 trillion other galaxies, each with ~500 billion other stars, an almost infinite number of planets in the "habitable zone") means that it is unthinkable that life doesn't exist elsewhere, which is why I said that humans being born out of alien life somehow is more valid than this "God" entity which is some sort of gaseous vertebrate of astronomic heft... or something.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
edit; as far as the existence of aliens, we do not know and it is a postulation NOT a theory that they exist. WHY? because it is not provable i.e., we do not have any evidence.
just by the sheer math (1 trillion other galaxies, each with ~500 billion other stars, an almost infinite number of planets in the "habitable zone") means that it is unthinkable that life doesn't exist elsewhere, which is why I said that humans being born out of alien life somehow is more valid than this "God" entity which is some sort of gaseous vertebrate of astronomic heft... or something.
well then by that idea you could say God created the universe and maybe he did create life on another planet in a far off galaxy, but to each our own.
well then by that idea you could say God created the universe and maybe he did create life on another planet in a far off galaxy, but to each our own.
Godfather.
no, that would not be a postulation, it would be an assumption.
another assumption is that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created all the worlds and people and manicotti on the 3rd day and on the 4th day baked some garlic bread for E.T.
the difference is logic
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
all this one dimensional thinking based in evidence ...
once upon the time logic told people the world was flat
just imagine ...
Evolution was created by God when God created Life ... Life finds a way
it evolves to survive ...
we are evolving to embrace our spirit... we are eternal
all this one dimensional thinking based in evidence ...
once upon the time logic told people the world was flat
just imagine ...
Evolution was created by God when God created Life ... Life finds a way
it evolves to survive ...
we are evolving to embrace our spirit... we are eternal
This is not an esoteric topic.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
all this one dimensional thinking based in evidence ...
once upon the time logic told people the world was flat
just imagine ...
Evolution was created by God when God created Life ... Life finds a way
it evolves to survive ...
we are evolving to embrace our spirit... we are eternal
This is not an esoteric topic.
but it is a topic to share one's opinion... that was mine
well then by that idea you could say God created the universe and maybe he did create life on another planet in a far off galaxy, but to each our own.
Godfather.
no, that would not be a postulation, it would be an assumption.
another assumption is that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created all the worlds and people and manicotti on the 3rd day and on the 4th day baked some garlic bread for E.T.
the difference is logic
logic ?..no offense man but by whos stanards ? that's a two way street.
all this one dimensional thinking based in evidence ...
once upon the time logic told people the world was flat
just imagine ...
Evolution was created by God when God created Life ... Life finds a way
it evolves to survive ...
we are evolving to embrace our spirit... we are eternal
The Ancient Greeks knew the earth was round.
Post edited by keeponrockin on
Believe me, when I was growin up, I thought the worst thing you could turn out to be was normal, So I say freaks in the most complementary way. Here's a song by a fellow freak - E.V
all this one dimensional thinking based in evidence ...
once upon the time logic told people the world was flat
just imagine ...
Evolution was created by God when God created Life ... Life finds a way
it evolves to survive ...
we are evolving to embrace our spirit... we are eternal
The Ancient Greeks knew the earth was round, and it was proveable to anyone on a coast.
point? ... do you think we now have evidence for everything?
no no of course not
we have so much yet we do not know ...
logic is based on what we know on evidence... old news
well then by that idea you could say God created the universe and maybe he did create life on another planet in a far off galaxy, but to each our own.
Godfather.
no, that would not be a postulation, it would be an assumption.
another assumption is that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created all the worlds and people and manicotti on the 3rd day and on the 4th day baked some garlic bread for E.T.
the difference is logic
logic ?..no offense man but by whos stanards ? that's a two way street.
Godfather.
who's standards? of logic? I guess the standard of the construct (of logic) itself.
your question is like saying "by who's standards can you say a chair is not an armadillo?"
by the standard of the meaning of words...
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
and this is the problem with people who are "against" evolution: there is no scientific evidence against evolution or any rational argument you can make, so you have to revert to some sort of metaphysical explanation for your beliefs that you are determined to hold onto like a spoiled child. After all, belief is the birth of ignorance.
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
I choose to believe in God, as cliche as it sounds my two boys changed how I felt and saw a lot of things.
Life is too short to be angry, I'd rather live my life a happy fool than a miserable know it all. In the end you can either believe we are insignificant to the world or realize just how precious each and every one of us are...in the entire unviverse that spans further than any can imagine there is only one you.
I choose to believe in God, as cliche as it sounds my two boys changed how I felt and saw a lot of things.
Life is too short to be angry, I'd rather live my life a happy fool than a miserable know it all. In the end you can either believe we are insignificant to the world or realize just how precious each and every one of us are...in the entire unviverse that spans further than any can imagine there is only one you.
cool. that has nothing to do with evolution, and evolution doesn't negate your beliefs. It negates the literal interpretation of the bible, but who really believes in that?
Everything not forbidden is compulsory and eveything not compulsory is forbidden. You are free... free to do what the government says you can do.
the intentions of this thread are not to denigrate religion or the Bible, but to suggest that perhaps it (religion/bible) shouldnt be taken 100% literally all the time. In certain instances it can be detrimantal. To use the Bible or religion to say that evolution is wrong, (or teaching it in schools is wrong) is very close minded, imo -- just as much as saying evolution discredits God, because it does not.
Its been awhile, so I actually had to read up a bit...found this:
11. Does evolution prove there is no God?
No. Many people, from evolutionary biologists to important religious figures like Pope John Paul II, contend that the time-tested theory of evolution does not refute the presence of God. They acknowledge that evolution is the description of a process that governs the development of life on Earth. Like other scientific theories, including Copernican theory, atomic theory, and the germ theory of disease, evolution deals only with objects, events, and processes in the material world. Science has nothing to say one way or the other about the existence of God or about people's spiritual beliefs.
1. What is evolution?
Biological evolution refers to the cumulative changes that occur in a population over time. These changes are produced at the genetic level as organisms' genes mutate and/or recombine in different ways during reproduction and are passed on to future generations. Sometimes, individuals inherit new characteristics that give them a survival and reproductive advantage in their local environments; these characteristics tend to increase in frequency in the population, while those that are disadvantageous decrease in frequency. This process of differential survival and reproduction is known as natural selection. Non-genetic changes that occur during an organism's life span, such as increases in muscle mass due to exercise and diet, cannot be passed on to the next generation and are not examples of evolution.
2. Isn't evolution just a theory that remains unproven?
In science, a theory is a rigorously tested statement of general principles that explains observable and recorded aspects of the world. A scientific theory therefore describes a higher level of understanding that ties "facts" together. A scientific theory stands until proven wrong -- it is never proven correct. The Darwinian theory of evolution has withstood the test of time and thousands of scientific experiments; nothing has disproved it since Darwin first proposed it more than 150 years ago. Indeed, many scientific advances, in a range of scientific disciplines including physics, geology, chemistry, and molecular biology, have supported, refined, and expanded evolutionary theory far beyond anything Darwin could have imagined.
I choose to believe in God, as cliche as it sounds my two boys changed how I felt and saw a lot of things.
Life is too short to be angry, I'd rather live my life a happy fool than a miserable know it all. In the end you can either believe we are insignificant to the world or realize just how precious each and every one of us are...in the entire unviverse that spans further than any can imagine there is only one you.
cool. that has nothing to do with evolution, and evolution doesn't negate your beliefs. It negates the literal interpretation of the bible, but who really believes in that?
It has a lot to do with evolution depending on your religion, as a Catholic I believe in evolutionary creation. In short God planned evolution.
Also, the fight to take teaching Evolution out of schools scares me.
Even if you want to say that the theory isnt 100% provable and that it goes against religion or the Bible, why not compromise and suggest it is taught with the specific disclaimer that it is a "THEORY" rather than just eliminate it.
Also, the fight to take teaching Evolution out of schools scares me.Even if you want to say that the theory isnt 100% provable and that it goes against religion or the Bible, why not compromise and suggest it is taught with the specific disclaimer that it is a "THEORY" rather than just eliminate it.
logic ?..no offense man but by whos stanards ? that's a two way street.
Godfather.
...
I think you are confusing logic (reason) with opinion.
Using the previously comment regarding the chair and the armadillo... you may be of the opinion that the chair and the armadillo are the same, but the facts disagree. You may choose to believe whatever you want and bring armadillos into your home to set around the dining room table and in the living room to sit and watch T.V.... but it does not change the fact that armadillos and chairs do not behave the same. Logic is what tells you to AVOID confusing the two and sittin your toddler on the back of an armadillo to feed him his Gerbers strained peas.
Now, regarding Evolution... it is based upon scientific foundations. Evolution is found in the realm of natural science. Creationism is found in the realm of religion.
And if you are thinking of using the 'Scientists used to believe the Earth was flat' arguement... it was because of the Church, not science, that placed the Earth in the center of the Universe. Those scientists used explanations to fit the Geocentric directives of the Church, not scientific method. The logic and reasoning they employed had nothing to do with science and everything to do with making sure their head was not going to be separated from their body by Church law for saying otherwise.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
who or what is the common ancestor ? I'm not trying to stir the pot just really interested in who or what you guys think is this common ancestoe is.
Godfather.
read this: http://www.amazon.com/Origin-Species-Ch ... _lmf_tit_2
it is pretty accessible and will answer all your questions.
I like your reply. :thumbup:
but I thinbk that some are moving in a different direction of evolution, I'm not clear of what they're refering to
but am truley interested in reading their theory/ideas of this
Godfather.
Godfather.
i think he was trolling... not sure... it's the most cliche and least rational argument made by creationists that makes people who understand evolution
like I said, read Darwin's "Origin of Species." that's a lot more efficient and complete than me explaining it to you second-hand.
my god...
i know you haven't read it
The scientific definition of the word "theory" is different from the colloquial sense of the word. Colloquially or in the vernacular sense of the term, "theory" can refer to guesswork, a simple conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation that does not have to be based on facts and it need not be framed for making testable predictions. Scientific theories also contain speculation at first, but they develop over time and many are rejected as they are specifically crafted for the purpose or function of being testable. In this way, theories can be constructed using logic, models, or schemes for generating testable hypotheses with precision.
there is a masive difference between theory and scientific theory
this is also a good post on it
http://thinking-critically.com/2010/07/ ... efinition/
I don't know... it is probably more valid because aliens almost certainly do exist whereas God...
...
My best guess?
I would say that if it were me... I would most likely not believe in Evolution because I **might** feel that the belief in Evolution would somehow negate the faith in my chosen religion. That the matter is either black or white... either you believe that the Bible is the word of God... or you don't. And that believing in something that opposes the word of God (as written in the Bible) would cause me to lose faith in my religion.
...
Of course, I'm a believer in truth, not faith. That does not mean i have no faith... it only means that I see the world in all colors between black and white. i have faith in things... one of them being truth. And I believe that we find more truth in knowledge, than we do in faith. It doesn't mean that faith has no truths... just that knowledge has more truths than faith... in the world... as I have seen it... to this point in time... in this space in the Universe.
Hail, Hail!!!
Godfather.
again, to say evolution is only a theory is tantamount to saying "the earth revolving around the sun is only a theory."
Why? Because of scientific observation, it is provable, and any questions denying it can be quickly refuted.
edit; as far as the existence of aliens, we do not know and it is a postulation NOT a theory that they exist. WHY? because it is not provable i.e., we do not have any evidence.
just by the sheer math (1 trillion other galaxies, each with ~500 billion other stars, an almost infinite number of planets in the "habitable zone") means that it is unthinkable that life doesn't exist elsewhere, which is why I said that humans being born out of alien life somehow is more valid than this "God" entity which is some sort of gaseous vertebrate of astronomic heft... or something.
well then by that idea you could say God created the universe and maybe he did create life on another planet in a far off galaxy, but to each our own.
Godfather.
no, that would not be a postulation, it would be an assumption.
another assumption is that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created all the worlds and people and manicotti on the 3rd day and on the 4th day baked some garlic bread for E.T.
the difference is logic
the most logical do the most illogical things :?
all this one dimensional thinking based in evidence ...
once upon the time logic told people the world was flat
just imagine ...
Evolution was created by God when God created Life ... Life finds a way
it evolves to survive ...
we are evolving to embrace our spirit... we are eternal
This is not an esoteric topic.
but it is a topic to share one's opinion... that was mine
logic ?..no offense man but by whos stanards ? that's a two way street.
Godfather.
no no of course not
we have so much yet we do not know ...
logic is based on what we know on evidence... old news
I'm looking to the future with anticipation
who's standards? of logic? I guess the standard of the construct (of logic) itself.
your question is like saying "by who's standards can you say a chair is not an armadillo?"
by the standard of the meaning of words...
Life is too short to be angry, I'd rather live my life a happy fool than a miserable know it all. In the end you can either believe we are insignificant to the world or realize just how precious each and every one of us are...in the entire unviverse that spans further than any can imagine there is only one you.
cool. that has nothing to do with evolution, and evolution doesn't negate your beliefs. It negates the literal interpretation of the bible, but who really believes in that?
Its been awhile, so I actually had to read up a bit...found this:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/libra ... 1.html#Q01
11. Does evolution prove there is no God?
No. Many people, from evolutionary biologists to important religious figures like Pope John Paul II, contend that the time-tested theory of evolution does not refute the presence of God. They acknowledge that evolution is the description of a process that governs the development of life on Earth. Like other scientific theories, including Copernican theory, atomic theory, and the germ theory of disease, evolution deals only with objects, events, and processes in the material world. Science has nothing to say one way or the other about the existence of God or about people's spiritual beliefs.
1. What is evolution?
Biological evolution refers to the cumulative changes that occur in a population over time. These changes are produced at the genetic level as organisms' genes mutate and/or recombine in different ways during reproduction and are passed on to future generations. Sometimes, individuals inherit new characteristics that give them a survival and reproductive advantage in their local environments; these characteristics tend to increase in frequency in the population, while those that are disadvantageous decrease in frequency. This process of differential survival and reproduction is known as natural selection. Non-genetic changes that occur during an organism's life span, such as increases in muscle mass due to exercise and diet, cannot be passed on to the next generation and are not examples of evolution.
2. Isn't evolution just a theory that remains unproven?
In science, a theory is a rigorously tested statement of general principles that explains observable and recorded aspects of the world. A scientific theory therefore describes a higher level of understanding that ties "facts" together. A scientific theory stands until proven wrong -- it is never proven correct. The Darwinian theory of evolution has withstood the test of time and thousands of scientific experiments; nothing has disproved it since Darwin first proposed it more than 150 years ago. Indeed, many scientific advances, in a range of scientific disciplines including physics, geology, chemistry, and molecular biology, have supported, refined, and expanded evolutionary theory far beyond anything Darwin could have imagined.
It has a lot to do with evolution depending on your religion, as a Catholic I believe in evolutionary creation. In short God planned evolution.
Even if you want to say that the theory isnt 100% provable and that it goes against religion or the Bible, why not compromise and suggest it is taught with the specific disclaimer that it is a "THEORY" rather than just eliminate it.
This was an interesting scenario in Pennsylvania a few years back -- They tried to include creationism or intelligent design into a public school: (also pbs)
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/ ... trial.html
Agreed.
I think you are confusing logic (reason) with opinion.
Using the previously comment regarding the chair and the armadillo... you may be of the opinion that the chair and the armadillo are the same, but the facts disagree. You may choose to believe whatever you want and bring armadillos into your home to set around the dining room table and in the living room to sit and watch T.V.... but it does not change the fact that armadillos and chairs do not behave the same. Logic is what tells you to AVOID confusing the two and sittin your toddler on the back of an armadillo to feed him his Gerbers strained peas.
Now, regarding Evolution... it is based upon scientific foundations. Evolution is found in the realm of natural science. Creationism is found in the realm of religion.
And if you are thinking of using the 'Scientists used to believe the Earth was flat' arguement... it was because of the Church, not science, that placed the Earth in the center of the Universe. Those scientists used explanations to fit the Geocentric directives of the Church, not scientific method. The logic and reasoning they employed had nothing to do with science and everything to do with making sure their head was not going to be separated from their body by Church law for saying otherwise.
Hail, Hail!!!