Parents hides childs gender from public !

josevolution

http://shine.yahoo.com/parenting/couple ... 00388.html

I don't agree with them at all .... I feel for the kid ...

SatansFuton

Yeah, there was a similar story to this about 6 months ago on AMT, about some parents somewhere in Canada.

Jamminonthe1

In a way I get the point, but it is a bit extreme. Why can't you just expose your kid to different things instead of playing games like this?

CJMST3K

I would have called them on their bluff.


"Wow, that's a nice haircut on it."

"It is very polite. Where did it learn its manners?"

"What should I get it for its birthday?"

Thoughts_Arrive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4_eSW6D6sc

pjfan31

I think it's an absolute joke....

This kid is going to start school with a really strange sense of identity. I work with kids, I am also nearing the end of a teaching degree, and what I know about children is that they struggle to accept difference in early ages. This kid I can only assume is going to be gender confused, sometimes playing with 'boys' things, sometimes playing with 'girl' things. My worry for this child is that they will struggle to make any meaningful relationships....

What's going to happen when this child needs to go to the toilet? which one is he going to walk in? Simple things like this that will get children noticing that 'hey this kid isn't like us' and will be excluded from social interactions.

I'm all for difference, and I thing we should embrace difference rather than suppress, but this is taking it to a whole new level...

DewieCox

Sounds like the parents were trying a social experiment. They're not protecting him from stereotypes, they're making him an outcast. They wouldn't allow him to wear super-masculine clothing, but let him wear glittery pink stuff and now a skirt as part of his school uniform?

Sounds almost like they wanted a daughter and they're taking it out on him.

I don't think stereotypes are right any more than any reasonable person, but there's gotta be better ways around them than making your child a target.

DS1119

Ridiculous. Some people really need to lay off the weed and get a grip on reality. Fucking around with their kids self being is criminal.

catefrances

do you seriously think this kid isnt aware that hes a boy???

catefrances

pjfan31 wrote:

... This kid I can only assume is going to be gender confused, sometimes playing with 'boys' things, sometimes playing with 'girl' things...

'boy' things and 'girl' things just like pink as a girls colour are social constructs. what would be confusing to a child is being told they cant play with something they want because its deemed a girls(or a boys) toy.

pjfan31

catefrances wrote:

pjfan31 wrote:

... This kid I can only assume is going to be gender confused, sometimes playing with 'boys' things, sometimes playing with 'girl' things...

'boy' things and 'girl' things just like pink as a girls colour are social constructs. what would be confusing to a child is being told they cant play with something they want because its deemed a girls(or a boys) toy.

That's my point and why I put them in these two things ' '.

If he wants to rock up to school in a dress, but then have to go and use the boys toilet, could you imagine the difficulty he will have making friends?

guitar59

We have boys and girls and they often play with each others toys. Girls play pirates, boys can play with polly pocket and barbies. They play with each other, so they play with each others toys. The girls love the nerf guns and their aim is better. Sometimes the boys help out in the kitchen, everyone does laundry and cleans the house. Sometimes the girls wear boy clothes (we live in Canada and long underwear was bought for the 1st kid (a boy) and has been passed down to everyone). It is just weird, these ideas that there is no difference between gender, until society makes them different. I swear, I knew I had a boy or girl based on how they behaved in the womb, and only a tiny women would have put me through what our second put me through in pregnancy.

SatansFuton

DewieCox wrote:

Sounds like the parents were trying a social experiment. They're not protecting him from stereotypes, they're making him an outcast. They wouldn't allow him to wear super-masculine clothing, but let him wear glittery pink stuff and now a skirt as part of his school uniform?

Sounds almost like they wanted a daughter and they're taking it out on him.

I don't think stereotypes are right any more than any reasonable person, but there's gotta be better ways around them than making your child a target.

Yeah, this quote said it all to me:

"Sasha dresses in clothes he likes -- be it a hand-me-downs from his sister or his brother. The big no-no's are hyper-masculine outfits like skull-print shirts and cargo pants. In one photo, sent to friends and family, Sasha's dressed in a shiny pink girl's swimsuit."

Sounds to me like he is allowed to wear what he wants, as long as it's what THEY want. Which is apparently girls clothes. "Hyper masculine" is a no-no, but hyper-feminine is fine.

catefrances

pjfan31 wrote:

catefrances wrote:

pjfan31 wrote:

... This kid I can only assume is going to be gender confused, sometimes playing with 'boys' things, sometimes playing with 'girl' things...

'boy' things and 'girl' things just like pink as a girls colour are social constructs. what would be confusing to a child is being told they cant play with something they want because its deemed a girls(or a boys) toy.

That's my point and why I put them in these two things ' '.

If he wants to rock up to school in a dress, but then have to go and use the boys toilet, could you imagine the difficulty he will have making friends?

well then perhaps hell only wear a dress to school once... kids can be cruel and truth be told conforming at school is one of its reasons for existing. any kid 'outside the norm' can be a target. a boy wearing a dress is no different. or maybe just maybe your low opinion of school society wont come to fruition and this child will be embraced exactly the way he is.

have you any idea just when it was males stopped wearing dresses? :think:

pjfan31

I could pop over to the local catholic church and see one, I could go to Fiji and see masculine men wearing one, or I could go to Kings Cross and see all sorts of crazy shit...

And what's my low opinion of school society? I know a girl who is about to go into year 3, has some condition where she physically impaired, speech impaired you name it. Now she is a lovely girl, but she is 'different', and who is her only friend? A year 2 girl who continues to wee and poo herself. They are each other's only true friends. The other children aren't cruel to them, quite the opposite. The only time kids might get a little restless is if the girl has had an accident and you might get a 'So and so stinks'

What I'm talking about is meaningful relationships. You might get people who are nice and accepting, but when the rest of the 'boys' want to be 'boys', and the other 'girls' want to be 'girls', where is this kid going to find himself?

Now this isn't exclusive to the school I work in, its kids...

stargirl69

Oh they are storing up a shit load of personal identity problems for that poor kid in later years.Everyone needs an identity,it forms who they are from the earliest stages of their lives.

I can guarantee this wee boy will have already been exposed to other kids asking if he is a boy or a girl,kids are so curious,how the hell the parents have managed to keep that a secret for 5 years is beyond me.

I am all for diversity and having worked with children for a long time they have always been allowed to play and dress with none gender defined toys and dress up.His parents if they had researched how to do this well could have still raised him as a boy with the principles that they would not lead him to gender specific play or activities,all done without denying his gender.

Adult always seem to end up messing kids up one way or another :?

SPEEDY MCCREADY

Fucking weirdos........

catefrances

why are some here assuming the boy has no identity, will have difficulty forming one as he grows and isnt strong and secure with who he is. `

one day, quite possibly very soon, this boy will most likely approach his parents and tell them he no longer wishes to wear frilly shit. heck ive know girls that have done that. if the parents stay true to their philosophy they will allow the boy to wear or not wear what he wishes. school exerts a lot of influence on children(everyone who has gone to school knows this. and they see it in their own chilcren) so lets just see how this boys grows before we start condemning his parents.

stargirl69

catefrances wrote:

why are some here assuming the boy has no identity, will have difficulty forming one as he grows and isnt strong and secure with who he is. `

one day, quite possibly very soon, this boy will most likely approach his parents and tell them he no longer wishes to wear frilly shit. heck ive know girls that have done that. if the parents stay true to their philosophy they will allow the boy to wear or not wear what he wishes. school exerts a lot of influence on children(everyone who has gone to school knows this. and they see it in their own chilcren) so lets just see how this boys grows before we start condemning his parents.

They refer to him as the infant to anyone out with the immediate family.They are not allowing him to wear whatever he wants as they do not offer him what they call hyper masculine clothes of combats and skull t-shirts yet will provide him with a (hyper feminine) frilly pink swimsuit,this seems a contradiction to fit their needs/social experiment or whatever it is they have smoked.

What I saw in the photo was very evidentially a boy dressed in girls clothes,they can be as gender unspecific as they want but once out of young babyhood boys and girls faces are different,even if the parent decided to grow the boys hair long/keep a girls hair short,the structure of the face is different.

Are we to assume in order to continue to conceal his gender he has not experienced some activities that are normal in childhood.

I don't doubt the boy will know he is physically a boy but emotionally and psychologically I am not sure.

catefrances

stargirl69 wrote:

They refer to him as the infant to anyone out with the immediate family.They are not allowing him to wear whatever he wants as they do not offer him what they call hyper masculine clothes of combats and skull t-shirts yet will provide him with a (hyper feminine) frilly pink swimsuit,this seems a contradiction to fit their needs/social experiment or whatever it is they have smoked.

What I saw in the photo was very evidentially a boy dressed in girls clothes,they can be as gender unspecific as they want but once out of young babyhood boys and girls faces are different,even if the parent decided to grow the boys hair long/keep a girls hair short,the structure of the face is different.

Are we to assume in order to continue to conceal his gender he has not experienced some activities that are normal in childhood.

I don't doubt the boy will know he is physically a boy but emotionally and psychologically I am not sure.

i dont think we should be assuming anything about a child we dont even know.

i never allowed my kids to wear camouflage and skull motifs either when they were younger either. camo is still not allowed as long as i am the one buying their clothes. and pink camo??? wtf is that??? i also didnt allow guns or representations of guns or surprise surprise any gunplay. now that the youngest are preteen and teenage i pretty much allow them to pick their own clothes so long as i approve... which generally runs to the nearly 13 year old girl not wearing age inappropriate clothing. and yes it is me as her parent that decides that.

stargirl69

catefrances wrote:

stargirl69 wrote:

They refer to him as the infant to anyone out with the immediate family.They are not allowing him to wear whatever he wants as they do not offer him what they call hyper masculine clothes of combats and skull t-shirts yet will provide him with a (hyper feminine) frilly pink swimsuit,this seems a contradiction to fit their needs/social experiment or whatever it is they have smoked.

What I saw in the photo was very evidentially a boy dressed in girls clothes,they can be as gender unspecific as they want but once out of young babyhood boys and girls faces are different,even if the parent decided to grow the boys hair long/keep a girls hair short,the structure of the face is different.

Are we to assume in order to continue to conceal his gender he has not experienced some activities that are normal in childhood.

I don't doubt the boy will know he is physically a boy but emotionally and psychologically I am not sure.

i dont think we should be assuming anything about a child we dont even know.

i never allowed my kids to wear camouflage and skull motifs either when they were younger either. camo is still not allowed as long as i am the one buying their clothes. and pink camo??? wtf is that??? i also didnt allow guns or representations of guns or surprise surprise any gunplay. now that the youngest are preteen and teenage i pretty much allow them to pick their own clothes so long as i approve... which generally runs to the nearly 13 year old girl not wearing age inappropriate clothing. and yes it is me as her parent that decides that.

I agree with your parenting but this article is about far more than that.By the very fact the article exists will have people assuming,debating,agreeing,disagreeing that is what we do when faced with something that makes us evaluate and question our own experiences and those of others.
It would not be my choice to parent that way,I see no wrong in confirming a child's gender.

chadwick

idiots.

chadwick

the kid should tell the media that his/her parents are dumber than elephant turds.

everyone wants to be a modern day peace loving freedom garden growin hippy who lives purely with the earth and has no ties that bind them to catergories. again failure catches up with most of us no matter our beliefs.
i think these people are out of their damn minds and seek attention.

someone oughta say, "we could give a damn about you and your kid" or "your kid sucks because you made it that way" or "you are the equlivalent of (expletive deleted)"

pjfan31

Cate are you trying to say that this is alright?
or are you just enjoying the debate... ?

Claireack

Personally, I think that the only way this could have worked to make the first five years of this lads life work as gender neutral would be if the parents themselves were doing the same themselves. As soon as he saw his parents naked he would realise that he was like his dad and that is dad wore certain clothes and his mum who was physically different and wore different clothes.

Without both parents and immediate family all following the same rules I think all it's doing is testing other peoples attitudes and not doing the child any favours.

But that's just my opinion.

chadwick

Claireack wrote:

Personally, I think that the only way this could have worked to make the first five years of this lads life work as gender neutral would be if the parents themselves were doing the same themselves. As soon as he saw his parents naked he would realise that he was like his dad and that is dad wore certain clothes and his mum who was physically different and wore different clothes.

Without both parents and immediate family all following the same rules I think all it's doing is testing other peoples attitudes and not doing the child any favours.

But that's just my opinion.

thank you. and you;re right.

chadwick

betcha a million bucks this was the mother's idea and the father just goes along with what mom says. one of those postnatal depression things that lasted 5 years due to stubborn bullshit

SatansFuton

Claireack wrote:

Personally, I think that the only way this could have worked to make the first five years of this lads life work as gender neutral would be if the parents themselves were doing the same themselves.

I don't think the point of this, regardless of what they say, was for the child to be gender neutral and choose their own path. The story from about 6 months ago about the Canadian couple doing a similar thing was more along those lines because they apparently (at least according to the story) let the child choose to wear whatever he/she wanted. This child is being steered towards wearing the feminine clothes. So it's not really an "experiment" as much as it's just a case of these parents trying to steer the child into dressing like a girl. The fact they told him that masculine shirts and cargo pants are a "no-no" but the second he dresses in a shiny pink girls swimsuit it gets photographed and sent out to all their friends and family tells you what the parents agenda is. They don't want a gender neutral child, they want a girl.

TS96221

Claireack wrote:

Personally, I think that the only way this could have worked to make the first five years of this lads life work as gender neutral would be if the parents themselves were doing the same themselves. As soon as he saw his parents naked he would realise that he was like his dad and that is dad wore certain clothes and his mum who was physically different and wore different clothes.

Without both parents and immediate family all following the same rules I think all it's doing is testing other peoples attitudes and not doing the child any favours.

But that's just my opinion.

I don't think he has a dad. He has two mothers.

catefrances

chadwick wrote:

betcha a million bucks this was the mother's idea and the father just goes along with what mom says. one of those postnatal depression things that lasted 5 years due to stubborn bullshit

thanks for the sexist viewpoint chad.

catefrances

pjfan31 wrote:

Cate are you trying to say that this is alright?
or are you just enjoying the debate... ?

whos to say it isnt alright? i have no problem with it. the flipside is a child deciding to dress himself and then coming out wearing his sisters dress and the parents freaking out and saying no no no johnny boys dont wear dresses. and when little johnny asks why not.. the parents struggle to find an answer that doesnt make them look like idiots.. cause in my opinion 'just cause' or' its just not done in our society' or 'boys dont wear dresses', when clearly all throughout history they actually have, are not good responses to a child expressing him/herself.

oh and yes of course im enjoying the debate.