Brain differences of atheists and believers

Cosmo

catefrances wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

catefrances wrote:

not believing and just not knowing for sure are two different things. i find the term belief/believe to be loaded. its not that i dont believe tis just for me God doesnt exist... much like unicorns. but if i said i dont believe in unicorns people would look at me weird as if to say well who would?.

...
Point taken.
Along those same lines... why don't people who utilize the part of the brain that triggers religious and/or spiritual belief... believe in Unicorns?

lack of evidence perhaps. :think:

...
Too bad Mary and Joseph didn't ride into Bethlehem on a Unicorn.
Actually, that would have been pretty awesome if they did.

catefrances

Cosmo wrote:

Too bad Mary and Joseph didn't ride into Bethlehem on a Unicorn.
Actually, that would have been pretty awesome if they did.

not sure unicorns are native to that area ... BUT in one of my bibles there is this colour plate of noahs ark and there is a unicorn standing there. so maybe....

Cosmo

catefrances wrote:

Cosmo wrote:

Too bad Mary and Joseph didn't ride into Bethlehem on a Unicorn.
Actually, that would have been pretty awesome if they did.

not sure unicorns are native to that area ... BUT in one of my bibles there is this colour plate of noahs ark and there is a unicorn standing there. so maybe....

...
That's right. I remember hearing that the reason WHY there are no Unicorns today was because they were out there pissing rainbows or something, when the Ark left port, right?
I also heard that the reason why my Manx Cat, Higgins, was missing his tail was because his ancestor was the last animal onto the Ark and the door closed on his tail.

marcos

Jeanwah wrote:

marcos wrote:

I just believe in me....Yoko and me.

I love that song.

Such a great song from such a great album, probably my favorite. Even Imagine touches on this subject.

brianlux

I LOVE this line from the article:

thinking about God may activate the same parts of the brain as thinking about an airplane, a friend or a lamppost

There's a song or a poem in there, I just know it. It might also explain a little about the guy in another town I often used to see talking to a phone booth. He was on to something. Same thing with the longshoreman I met years ago who snuffed out his cigarette in the palm of his hand and had hair like flames. He was on to something. We call these people crazy, but many of the so-called "crazy" people I've met don't proclaim to know God. They just seem to see things we don't. I wonder what the study would show about their brains?

redrock

Hmmmm... interesting but not convinced. The frontal lobes govern a vast array of 'capabilities', planning/problem solving being an example. Following trauma in the 'right' area (eg a stroke) a person can completely lose this capability. So... if a believer suffers a big enough brain injury in relevant areas of the brain, he ceases to believe as he/she used to? Through physical trauma a believer becomes a non believer? Sure, the brain can adapt to a certain point, but what if....? I know brain injury can completely change a person but these are usually 'acquired/learned' traits though education, life, etc. Believing is said to be 'deep within'/'core' - is it therefore not as 'from the soul' as one thinks?

pandora

"Ultimately, it's not that we use 10 percent of our brains, merely that we only understand about 10 percent of how it functions."

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... t-of-brain

amazing our brains and so much unknown

and for me an airplane or lamp post wouldn't be how I would think of a friend

And God

Emotion/feeling is the key, complex reactions within the brain, longterm memory,
life time experiences negative positive these are contributing factors for
being a believer, in my opinion. Having come from being an atheist to a believer,
I have met many now who have, I too wonder what the brain changes are.
Perhaps a miracle experience changes the brain ... being based in electrical waves
I can see how this could happen. Maybe my brain grew 3 times that day
there I thought it was my heart

Hippocampus
Is particularly involved with memory phenomena, specially with the formation of long-term memory (the one that, sometimes, lasts forever).


I like saying the word too

g under p

Hippocampus....nice word for all my brain exercises on Word With Friends. I must find a way to fit that word in.

Peace

Jeanwah

brianlux wrote:

I LOVE this line from the article:

thinking about God may activate the same parts of the brain as thinking about an airplane, a friend or a lamppost

There's a song or a poem in there, I just know it. It might also explain a little about the guy in another town I often used to see talking to a phone booth. He was on to something. Same thing with the longshoreman I met years ago who snuffed out his cigarette in the palm of his hand and had hair like flames. He was on to something. We call these people crazy, but many of the so-called "crazy" people I've met don't proclaim to know God. They just seem to see things we don't. I wonder what the study would show about their brains?

I know, I love that line too! Yeah, I wonder about eccentric habits and how the brain would resemble that, but I'd bet that if you took a Schizophrenic brain, there would be obvious differences... I'd think.

redrock

I'm just wondering why a 'reborn' or one that went from atheist to theist would have a smaller hippocampus. Seeing this is where new memories form (and others stored), one could think that being 'reborn' one would pile up on the new experiences and memories with the hippocampus working overtime and growing!. Again, with brain trauma, should the hippocampus be damaged and not be able to store new memories, can one be 'reborn' as this will be new experience/memory but the damaged hippocampus cannot retain and therefore 'transfer' these as 'emotions' to the rest of the system?

Is believing a 'learned' experience, 'physically' created by our brain if one is so pre-disposed?

It's fact that different 'types' of people have differences in the physical appearance of their brains (eg. psychos, criminally insane, etc.). Is this just a manifestation of 'type'?

Jason P

JonnyPistachio wrote:

yes, interesting. I dont know exactly what to make of it, but I do love saying the word "hippocampus."
Throw Medulla Oblongata in there and i'm just happy as a pig in shit.

Did you know that alligators are aggressive because of an enlarged medulla oblongata?

Jeanwah

redrock wrote:

Hmmmm... interesting but not convinced. The frontal lobes govern a vast array of 'capabilities', planning/problem solving being an example. Following trauma in the 'right' area (eg a stroke) a person can completely lose this capability. So... if a believer suffers a big enough brain injury in relevant areas of the brain, he ceases to believe as he/she used to? Through physical trauma a believer becomes a non believer? Sure, the brain can adapt to a certain point, but what if....? I know brain injury can completely change a person but these are usually 'acquired/learned' traits though education, life, etc. Believing is said to be 'deep within'/'core' - is it therefore not as 'from the soul' as one thinks?

I don't know, when I was living in a rehab hospital for orthopedic issues, there was a brain injury wing there. It's impossible to feel sorry for yourself when in the presence of a patient with brain damage, these patients are utterly so lost. So I wonder if they have the ability to retain their beliefs; from what I saw, there was no way to tell because many lost the function to communicate.

pandora

Dopamine was found in higher levels of believers which is a neurotransmitter that
helps control the brain's reward and pleasure centers
also perhaps explaining the contradiction as to size of the hippocampus
perhaps it effects the size or is in direct correlation to.
Less is more with dopamine!

Perhaps this is the sense of well being I have found in my experience
that believers have and their positiveness we often see
with true believers of God

Also less addiction among believers due to the levels of dopamine in the brain...
There I thought we were just addicted to God.

redrock

Jean - seems you were in contact with people with severe injuries. Having been in the midst of stroke and other head injury victims, all at different levels and with different parts of the brain involved, my thought is that, even if the hippocampus is damaged and new memories can't be made, they still have their long-term memory so would remember praying, going to church, etc. Assuming that no other part of the brain is touched, one can assume they could still have the 'emotional' bit of believing.

As the OP is only a response to a study, I googled to find the study itself and found this...

http://neurowhoa.blogspot.com/2009/03/b ... m-non.html

Obviously, this is a blog in which the author gives his view but it also gives details of the original study. A study (2 actually) with only 50 participants! Not really much to go on, I believe. Not sure if this person's opinion is more valuable than another's but it is interesting to see how the study was conducted and what the criteria was.

Does make more sense...

JonnyPistachio

Jason P wrote:

JonnyPistachio wrote:

yes, interesting. I dont know exactly what to make of it, but I do love saying the word "hippocampus."
Throw Medulla Oblongata in there and i'm just happy as a pig in shit.

Did you know that alligators are aggressive because of an enlarged medulla oblongata?

No I did not know that, and they make up most of my neighbors!
This thread is awesome, but its ealry and I have to jump start my hippocampus to process all this..

redrock

pandora wrote:

Less is more with dopamine!

Too much dopamine is associated with schizophrenia and other similar disorders.

Too much - you go psychotic, not enough - you get parkinsons or are depressed and just right - you believe!

Also, it would seem that those with Alzheimer's and other dementia have smaller hippocampi.... So do we therefore make a link between dementia and believing (in the sense - my cat has two eyes, I also have two eyes, therefore I am a cat type link...)

pandora

I have heard that also with schizophrenia ... too much indeed ... fine line insanity

we are but a bunch of chemicals and electricity and made in the image
of our maker

redrock

Shall we keep this thread based (loosely) on science and not slip in theology and go down the 'god' thread path again?

(see Jean's original post - in green)

Jeanwah

redrock wrote:

Jean - seems you were in contact with people with severe injuries. Having been in the midst of stroke and other head injury victims, all at different levels and with different parts of the brain involved, my thought is that, even if the hippocampus is damaged and new memories can't be made, they still have their long-term memory so would remember praying, going to church, etc. Assuming that no other part of the brain is touched, one can assume they could still have the 'emotional' bit of believing.

As the OP is only a response to a study, I googled to find the study itself and found this...

http://neurowhoa.blogspot.com/2009/03/b ... m-non.html

Obviously, this is a blog in which the author gives his view but it also gives details of the original study. A study (2 actually) with only 50 participants! Not really much to go on, I believe. Not sure if this person's opinion is more valuable than another's but it is interesting to see how the study was conducted and what the criteria was.

Does make more sense...

That blog post was pretty interesting! It seems that there's nothing that's completely conclusive so far, but interesting nonetheless. Yeah, 50 participants among 2 different studies wasn't enough really to produce anything really substantial.

Jeanwah

redrock wrote:

Shall we keep this thread based (loosely) on science and not slip in theology and go down the 'god' thread path again?

(see Jean's original post - in green)

Yes, thank you redrock. ....... will not derail this thread.